THE wealthy can move to Guernsey unhindered because there is no vetting system for people who buy open market properties. Sir Mark Thatcher (pictured), son of former prime minister Margaret, is believed to be looking to buy a house in Guernsey and the situation has highlighted the ease with which wealthy individuals can move to the island.
The Independent on Sunday ran a story during the weekend claiming that Sir Mark wanted to move from his mansion in southern Spain to Guernsey because he fears being kidnapped.
Sir Mark admitted being an unwitting participant in the botched 2004 plot to overthrow president Teodoro Obiang Nguema of Equatorial Guinea and received a four-year suspended jail sentence in South Africa and £265,000 fine.
Though he is safe from Equatorial Guinea’s attempts to extradite him while in Spain, he allegedly believes kidnap to be a real threat and feels any kidnappers would be more conspicuous in Guernsey.
Housing minister Dave Jones confirmed there were no restrictions in place to stop anyone from buying an open market property.
‘It has been a bone of contention among some States members for a considerable time,’ he said.
‘But anyone who has the wherewithal to buy on the open market can do so and is not subject to any criminal records checks, unlike people who come to Guernsey under licence.’
The Housing Department is currently undertaking a review of the open market but Deputy Jones could not confirm whether the issue of vetting people moving to the island to live in the open market was on the agenda.
‘It is possible that it may come up,’ he said.
‘I’m aware that there are a number of deputies who believe that open market residence should be subject to criminal records checks because we don’t know where they have come from.
‘We have no idea who these people are in many ways or what their background is.’
Deputy Jones would not be drawn on his personal views about the issue and neither would he discuss Sir Mark.
‘It would be inappropriate for me to talk about an individual case,’ he said.
‘He [Sir Mark] is free to look at the open market like everybody else.’
The Guernsey Press spoke to Sir Mark at the end of April on one of his frequent visits to the island.
He denied at the time that he was house hunting in Guernsey.
Chief Minister Lyndon Trott said he was unable to comment at this time.
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21 Article Comments
It is not just the wealthy who can move here unhindered, the number of low paid, “seasonal” workers now employed in the island is out of control and completely unmonitered. A number of wealthy businessmen have bought long established businesses, laid off the local work force and replaced them with “seasonal” polish staff on seemingly indefinitely renewable six month licenses.
One has to ask who is issuing these licences if what is alleged above is true?
The number of unemployed has risen recently as stated by the media and perhaps politicians should be looking at why?
How do companies prove that they have tried to fill positions locally before they are issued with housing licences - something i believed the Housing Department insisted on. I know several locals who have applied for jobs but not even received interviews (some requiring specific qualifications and experience which they had). Next minute a non-local is in the job. If the job is in the public sector then the taxpayer is also paying for their relocation and extra housing payments - and no doubt they will also be asking for 15 year licences shortly. Do the Housing Department know how many people are living here on 15 year licences or how many have left or even perhaps changed jobs??? The article throws up many more questions than it answers.
The housing licence situation is terrible. My son is a qualified chef who has studied in France for 3 years. The only jobs he can find locally pay under £5.00 an hour. All of the kitchen workers are polish or latvian with no qualifications or training. Many of these businesses employ NO locals at all and don’t pay fair wages because they are able to employ these seasonal staff at such low rates. Don’t mis-understand me, I am not against having seasonal staff, but it needs to be better monitored (is it monitored at all at the moment?) and these businesses should have to have a certain percentage of locals working for them and be able to prove that they have made a reasonable effort to employ locals. I also think that the seasonal workers do not always get treated very well and that is wrong too.
My question to the comments above are how do local businesses carry on whilst waiting around for local people to decide if they want low paid work again. This has been happening since vinery owners in the 80’s realised they could try to stay competitive by employing people from Madeira and Portugal as finance picked up and locals thought manual work was beneath them.
People need to accept that foreign labour allows the cost of living to stay low (relatively as we have quite high inflation).
Forcing restaurants/shops/hotels to employ local staff (and paying them the wages they think they deserve) would cause prices to rocket which would be counter productive. This is why it doesn’t happen.
Dan are you proposing that we allow in another 1,000 or 2,000 foreign workers to do low paid work ? We already have people baulking at the prospect of importing more finance workers who would at least contribute good levels of personal taxes to help fill the black hole. Where would all the foreign low-paid workers live ?
Not suggesting we allow more people in but simply pointing out Guernsey will always need non-local workers from other countries to do all manner of work (whether low paid or specialist high wage work like law or medicine). The licence system isn’t perfect but enables growth whilst controlling immigration.
The factors of available work, accommodation/housing stock and wages will dictate the workforce and where they come from.
I’m not sure what else can be done by the States to restrict the population, allow a level of growth AND keep inflation at bay.
Its a tricky ratio to balance. The trade off for some people is that their chosen career does not pay enough for them to live here.
Its harsh but this is the same the world over - adapt or move on!
My son has now thankfully found employment in a local establishement, although it does not pay much more than stated above, he is working with a mixture of locals and licenced staff (he was bullied in one establishement as he was the only english speaker). The difference being that in the other places, because they are staffed entirely with licencees, the working conditions are distgusting, long (12 hour) shifts with no breaks, they are treated in an appalling manner and because they are not trained the kitchens themselves are unhygenic and I do not understand how they can be in business. I am surprised that there has only been one outbreak of salmonella. I understand that we need low paid seasonal workers but I do feel that the current system is unmonitered and out of control. Some of the local businesses abuse the system to pay lower wages/lower standard working conditiones etc just so they can line thier pockets and make more money.
Dan I agree completely with you. No easy or popular answers !
So the real issue then isn’t about whether the workers are local or not - it’s about when is Guernsey going to legislate for minimum wage and working conditions (including bullying and discrimination) and enforce health, safety and hygiene rules in the workplace?
Your article By Joel de Woolfson questioning how the wealthy can move to Guernsey. You say there is no vetting system for people who buy open market properties. Sir Mark Thatcher (son of former prime minister Margaret, is believed to be looking to buy a house in Guernsey and the situation has highlighted the ease with which wealthy individuals can move to the island. Well why not? When I came to Guernsey Housing inspected who was living in the house and I was told that other checks were being carried out. It is reassuring that people consider Guernsey as a place of safety which sends out a message to other high profile people what Guernsey has to offer. If I was Mark Thatcher Guernsey would be the only place I would choose
If I was Mark Thatcher I wouldn’t dare show my face in respectable society.
Are you telling me that Housing would refuse someone with a few bob to come over here? I thought it was policy to attract wealth, no matter what the cost.
We want honesty in Guernsey. Honesty not being the natural bedfellow of the rich.
As usual idiotic remarks from Lawrence the wealth hater .Dishonesty is a bed fellow across all society.
The majority of the people that are in prisons across the World are not rich people.
Dominic.
I can absolutely assure you that the biggest crimes are committed daily by the rich. The prisons are full of desperate people, many mentally ill, the minority being true sociopaths.
The US holds 24% of the world’s prisoners, yet has only 5% of the world’s population. Take a guess at the racial and social demographic of that population. And yet they are sold as beacons of the ‘decent’ world. We must reevaluate who are friends are.
What part of £500bn of wasted taxpayers money does not equate to major dishonesty by the wealthiest corps around, that have burst the bubble on false accounting and repackaged debt?
What planet are you on? Oh, the one that lets the rich swan about with few regulations whilst the poor have to sweat for a verdict of their humanity.
That’s not reality, that’s corruption.
“I can absolutely assure you that the biggest crimes are committed daily by the rich.”
Lawrence you have truly reached new depths with such a statement. What a ridiculous statement.
Never mind asking Dominic which planet he is on….I think you need to first work out where you are in the solar galaxy because it sure isnt the real world.
Lawrence as usual off the wall arguments with a hatred of any body that has been successful in life. Many people that are wealthy have had to work hard and make untold sacrifices to succeed in life. Hundreds of millionaires came from very poor backgrounds from Council Estates but had the drive and luck to succeed. The worst crimes committed in any society in life are all the violent crimes .The prisons are full of people that do not want to work and want easy money. To finish your comments are normally full of unadulterated claptrap and insulting to honest wealthy individuals.
David and Dominic
If you don’t think the funding of wars, or the stripping of forests, or the grinding down of the third world to asset strip resources, or the repression of women, or the masterminding of the black economy, I could go on and on and on, is criminal then you do live in another world. These are the drivers for anti social behaviour amongst the more deprived areas.
Strangle hope and you get nihilism. Your safe in your home so you are bound to say what you say. The reality for the global majority is that the rich are screwing them. That is criminal.
And Mark Thatcher? It’s ok to be involved in criminal proceedings if you’re related to a former prime minister, is it? Is that how far your deference to the wealthy goes?
Lawrence lets draw a distinction here. Some of the things that you refer to our indeed crimes. They are criminal offences whether they are committed by rich or by poor. But is the stripping of forests actually a crime ? Likewise the repression of women ? Asset-stripping sometimes can be a crime if its done fraudulently but its not for Planet Lawrence to decide what is and what is not a crime. That’s down to the lawmakers. Its fine for you to have your view as to whether something should in fact be a crime, and many would agree with you, but whether something is a crime or not depends very simply on whether the law actually states it to be a crime. Its not subjective !
And Mark Thatcher pleaded guilty to a crime in the South African courts so that’s pretty black and white. He is a convicted criminal.
The law is weighted toward the wealthy. A knife crime will be heavily reported and the perp, when caught, will get his comeuppance. The company that sells kalashnikovs to African children (in the name of the economy!) to kill hundreds and thousands of other African children, even though there are likely to be trade restrictions, will be lauded as ‘wealth generator’.
Similarly a bank or a fund’s investment in said company, that is doing very well, will be seen as canny operators on the global market, and feted in the finance papers.
Why is there not a law that stops people selling machine guns to children? Seems odd, doesn’t it?
So, in my world, the person that seals that deal, the people that back that deal, and the people that make money from the backers, are all criminals.
And that’s a tiny example of the disproportionality of justice. You cling on to insulting single mothers and drug addicts. Blindness.
Lawrence I don’t insult single mothers or drug addicts. Never have and never will. I just happen to accept that the law is the law and the law decides what is legal and what is illegal. Breaking the law is a crime. Not breaking the law is not a crime. What is hard for you to understand about that ?
If you think that certain things that aren’t crimes should be crimes then feel free to lobby to get them changed. Unilaterally deeming something to be a crime when it isn’t seems rather a futile exercise.
The creation or ownership of wealth from legal activities is not a crime. Nor is legal tax avoidance. Get over it and move on.
That’s the point I was trying to make. It’s ok for a man to get rich selling guns to kids, but not for a youth to kill another one. Disproportionate. It;s about public attitude to reality. We can all hide behind our wads of cash, but it doesn’t make it right. What’s so hard to understand about that?
Justice, not profit should be the ultimate aim for everyone.
Housing is a joke. I’ve friends living in local market flats next to foreigners living in local market flats! How does that work?
Granting foreign banking staff local licenses means they can live in local market flats further driving up local market prices. That’s driving a horse and coaches through the meaning of having 2 different markets. It doesn’t protect locals from price inflation as the States are hell bent on importing as much foreign labour as possible to make up the short-fall in tax breaks given in 0-10.
It’s making mockery of any policy Housing has. In fact nobody has a clue what their policies are because they’re all on a nudge-nudge wink-wink basis and cannot be made public because we’d all give them the boot for once again favouring the foreigners over locals.