THE problems for people looking for housing are worse than they were 40 years ago. Sarnia Housing Association chairman Martin Le Boutillier is calling on the States to find a solution to the difficulties caused by high rents and the price of property.
‘The States needs to look into the desperate state of some people and try to ascertain the scale of the problem,’ he said. The charity was born out of a similar situation to the one which exists today.
‘The difference is now it affects everyone,’ he said. ‘Most of us in this island benefit from the high standard of living we have created, but sadly this has placed a section of our community in an impossible position when finding suitable living accommodation on the island.’
Speaking at the charity’s 40th anniversary celebration, Mr Le Boutillier said it was especially difficult for those wanting to get on the property ladder.
‘People have steady jobs, even in the banking industry, and they still can’t afford a home,’ he said. Mr Le Boutillier said the States should examine how to alleviate the problem.
Article posted on 27th September, 2008 - 9.30am
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19 Article Comments
I had a good job in the banking industry and I got my first mortgage at the age of 18 (with a partner)… which, to some, would sound like a brilliant achievement - to “get my foot on the property ladder”.However, I was genuinely living in poor conditions (Don’t get me wrong, I know there are plenty of people worse off than me). My parents had to buy my shopping because I couldn’t afford to eat and quite often went without food because I was determined to try to pay my own way and I felt like I was begging from my own parents. I quickly got into a little debt and about a year later had to try to sell my house before it got worse. However the property market is so poor at the moment that I have now been trying to sell the property for around a year and it is still not sold and the debt is quickly building up. Now when I eventually sell the house I will just be hoping to break even.
Brilliant, Dave Jones, brilliant.
So the States are listening?
A well established and knowledgable charity suggests that there is a Housing crisis and Jones says “This is a difficult area”!!! Followed by the incredible statement “None of these issues are new”!! So what exactly have you been doing, Mr. Jones? Protecting the landlords and ensuring higher and higher profits? How about some action instead of this poisonous laissez faire that is gripping Guernsey, in common with the wider world.
It’s time these dinosaurs were removed.
I worry for the children, it looks like even the accountants will be camping in boxes in the parks soon, whilst the non local millionaires buy up the houses and pay tuppence hapenny tax to boot.
You couldn’t make up this level of social ignorance.
I lived in Guernsey and met my future wife there but due to lossing my job we had to leave Guernsey due to rnt being so high. We desided that the only thing we could do would be to move to England where we found that the rent is cheaper yet no one wants to rent you a house when your last land lord kicked you out. So we stayed in hotels for two weeks and had to live like that untill money ran out and then we where left on the streets for just over a month aventualy I started booking in to Hotels with no way of paying and then after a couple days we ran away. It was the only way to stay alive. We now live in a one bed council flat in liverpool where I am unable to work due to how poor my helf got liveing on the streets. Its not like we never asked for help in Guernsey we asked over and over again but we would not be gave any. We hope to when I am well move back yet I dont know if I have the trust in Guernsey state to do so
maybe just maybe it might have something to do with so many non local workers moving to the already over crowded island.Its our own fault for letting them come in the first place. I dont think there is any way of recording how many are here.
anon: if they are non local they have to buy open market or share a license with a local to be able to have a local market property.
And as most of the open market properties are about £1 million, i doubt they are preventing locals getting on the housing ladder.
i believe there are a number of reasons why rents are so high
1.there are too many non locals living in this Island, certainly people in the finance sector can afford to pay far higher rent than most locals even if they are here only on a short term licence as the majority of them get rent subsidies from their employers. gsygal says non locals would have to buy on the open market but this isn’t true as i know quite a few non locals who club together to pay exorbitant rents for one room to share between them, if you don’t believe it go up to beau sejour in the gym most evenings and count how many polish and latvians are up there and they definitely can’t buy open market houses as they are builders labourers and window cleaners etc ( but they have to live somewhere)
2. the states housing are throwing good tenents out of their states houses if they earn just a fraction over the amount they are allowed to earn in a states house, which is putting more pressure on the private sector.
3. the states housing has continued to put their rents up to keep pace with the private sector and the private sector has put theirs up to keep their differential which has forced rents up even higher
4. the price of houses have gone through the roof, the estate agents say this proves that there is enough confidence in the housing market for people to pay these prices, when in reality most people want to buy their own house because they just aswell struggle to pay ridiculous mortgages as pay ridiculous rents and get nothing at the end of it which in turn puts the prices up even higher
I am a local with what I consider a decently paid job on the island. However, I am finding it extremely difficult to find properties to buy that are anywhere near the specification of the one that I owned in the UK. Yes, I could afford to buy a house, but why should my expected standards of living decrease because I have now returned back home? I am seriously considered leaving and returning back to the UK, which would leave the States in a tricky situation due to the nature of my job - someone would then have to come over on licence.
The States really do shoot themselves in the foot sometimes. The level of pay over here does not reflect the cost of living particularly in the case of housing.
Rents are high because of high demand and low supply. This is obvious yes?
Now the same number of people are living here regardless of if they buy or rent. So how to change owner-occupied into rentals? Perhaps look into incentives for investors to rent out new builds instead of just selling them? Negative gearing is an incentive which could be looked at for investment properties.
There is also way too many derelict houses in guernsey which could be used for occupation. How about we target the owners of these who are just letting them run down. Extra tax or fines on un-occupied property after a specified period of time etc.
Wil the situation re derelict vinery sites is easy to resolve. The sites at the moment are maybe worth £x per vergee. As building land its probably worth £50x per vergee. Invite owners to offer their vinery sites for sale at £10x per vergee. They would end up with a price worth more than the horticultural value but the resulting house prices would end up heavily subsidised. Are there any losers ?
In a free market there is very little anyone can do to make housing cheaper if there are pressures on supply. You can’t legislate against it.
Of course its cheaper to live in the UK but then the UK doesn’t have the same quality of life, low crime or zero unemployment etc. Its expensive to live here because its desirable.
If you can’t afford to live here then you have to make arrangements otherwise - harsh but true. Same as if you decided to live in Manhattan or Kensington - you have to have the means to pay.
dan
You can legislate against anything. It just takes a bit of willpower. We seem to be addicted to the false virtue of climbing house prices. Like any addict, the thought of seeing unearned ‘highs’ disappear is tantamount to treason.
The belief that we have in a false market made of tax avoiding chancers and the thin film of ‘attracting entrepreneurs’ (still waiting) is letting down the average and local public.
We are brainwashed into thinking that supply/demand is the root of this mental illness.
It is quite simple. Walk through Fort George and witness the dead feeling of wealth. Empty houses full of unused luxury stagnating for month upon month, just so we can claim a pittance.
Witness the takeover and the talk of takeover of wealthy non local individuals to fill the spaces and use the amenities once enjoyed in silence by generations of Guernsey families.
If this is the price of ‘market forces’ then it is a high one for the majority.
You are basically telling poor people to move out of the island.
This is the message we are getting from our political and business leaders. Don’t you find it sad that the politicians we elect can do nothing?
David
Splendid idea re derelict glass.
Housing / States should offer to buy up suitable sites at a premium and hand them over to the Housing Association for shared equity new builds.
That cleans up the island , keeps the builders in work ( they may even have to take on some of the workshy layabouts we’re all keeping in fags and noserings ), provides affordable homes and the vinery owner comes out with something towards his pension.
Other suitable sites could be earmarked for industrial use at a different premium.
Perhaps this new Assembly will get over the previous apparant envy at someone who might profit from derelict glass
Lawrence
People should realise that you don’t get life delivered to you on a plate - ‘poor and average people’ are not entitled to live somewhere just by virtue of being local and because ‘they want to’. I know the States house system is there to support low income people but having seen the condition of some estates I’m not sure many even appreciate what is given to them.
I am local born but left the island to develop a career in the UK and recently returned after nearly 10 years with the means to pay for a house for my family (I don’t work in finance in case you are wondering). This is called taking responsibility.
I couldn’t afford to live here when i was 20 but didn’t winge or have 3 kids and hope someone would pick up the tab. I left to try my luck elsewhere and hopefully return later in life. This is called a life plan - nothing quality happens by accident.
You talk of the good old Guernsey ways but that is what people did before the social housing was invented. They either supported themselves on the island or left to make money elsewhere and then returned when the time was right.
Your ideas of socialism and heavy taxation have a hefty price in terms of freeloaders who believe they are entitled to a living.
Not heavy taxation. Fair taxation. I don’t see whinging, I see challenging times. Why do people insist of equating fair taxation with ’spongers’. This is just tabloid media drivel.
Things need to get done here. It’s not a question of ‘now I’ve succeeded I can forget about life outside’. It’s about maintaining a quality of life that is fair in such a rich jurisdiction. Just because you are ok doesn’t mean that your neighbours are, for whatever reason. just because you can pay for medical procedures doesn’t mean that some can’t. It is usually not a person’s fault if they work for a low paid job and receive pay cuts year on year. That’s just bad management. Bad management is what we need to be rid of, be it overspends in the public sector, or exploitation in the private.
Of course life isn’t fair, but taxes can be, and a smoothing out of the perceived divisions in society can be painlessly implemented with a group mentality.
It is individualism that is killing the Guernsey spirit, not a lack of cash. House prices wouldn’t be so high if people didn’t have cash - so the knock on effects for the poor and the old need to be addressed through control of this cash.
Anything else doesn’t work, as we can see all around us in the media right now.
It often IS someones fault if they work in a low paid job - they should have tried harder at school.
There is a pecking order but some people make it and some people don’t - its survival of the fittest.
Many old people in the island are sat on over £500k of property with no mortgage - some may need to downsize to release cash.
Those in rented or States accommodation who are still struggling should look to see if they are managing their lives effectively or have their heads in the sand.
Dan
I suggest a lot of nurses would show, and tell you just what they think of your comments on low paid jobs.
So far as I can see most of the ideas on these pages are more with sharing the burden than taking the island into socialism (whatever that means in practice as distinct from theory). It seems the main idea desire of many is more equality in sharing the burden of running the island.
Again, no one is talking about heavy taxation, except perhaps, if lifting the social security payments, is regarded as increased, but hardly excessive taxation.
Nurses in particular have always had a very raw deal. It takes years to train and total devotion, yet the rewards are pitiful.
I suspect (and hope) that what Dan was referring to was people who messed around at school, didn’t get any qualifications and have not bothered/been eligible due to lack of qualifications to then study for a trade or profession and now find themselves in low-paid jobs. That sector of people is totally different from those who happen to have chosen a skilled profession like nursing which happens to pay poorly, who should be admired for doing so.
I think that distinction is vital and Stephen you were right to pick up on that point.
Dan - our society would fall apart without those who work in “low paid” jobs. Unfortunately our society does not reward people on what they invest into our society but, more typically, what they put into wealth creation pure and simple. Best you never cross my sister who gained a degree from Cambridge University, decided that she wanted to do something positive for society, retrained as a nurse and now works more hours than anyone I know, saving the lives of desperately ill children.
She will NEVER afford housing over here, and struggles to pay the rent in the UK even. Should she be so penalised for wanting to make a real difference to real people who really need help?
And I am sure that you wouldn’t be too happy if all the teachers, teaching assistants, bin men etc quit their jobs and retrained in the hope of gaining enough skills of earning enough to buy a house!!!!
Sorry - I thought that might get misconstrued!
I was referring to ‘wasters’ who mess up long term but expect the Gov to finance their lives and house them, NOT vocational people who choose to work for low wages but do a fantastic job (teaching, nurses etc). They are clearly not paid enough and the States should provide them with more housing support to supplement low wages.
That is the whole point behind an Essential Workers scheme - I would support cutting benefits to those who are clearly layabouts (which would also send a clear message out to future slobs that its not a valid career choice) and increase housing assistance to low paid vocational/essential workers.
Raising the Social Security Cap could help this without any tax payers really feeling the pinch.