Comments on: ‘Your money is safe with Barclays’ http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/ Island News, Sport, Community & Lifestyle Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:22:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: muzeek http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16995 muzeek Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:03:32 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16995 GO MANN You are so right, I have just read this on a BBC news page, it's pretty scary eh. "The current financial crisis may be more far-reaching than even the 1929 crash, a Bank of England policymaker has warned." GO MANN
You are so right, I have just read this on a BBC news page, it’s pretty scary eh.

“The current financial crisis may be more far-reaching than even the 1929 crash, a Bank of England policymaker has warned.”

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]]> By: Go Mann http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16883 Go Mann Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:01:56 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16883 What would anyone expect him to say? "Barclays is potentially as deep in the poo as anyone else, because really none of us have any idea how this will work out. Anyway, there might be a compensation scheme coming along in 2009, which might cover a little bit of your money if things go wrong." What would anyone expect him to say? “Barclays is potentially as deep in the poo as anyone else, because really none of us have any idea how this will work out. Anyway, there might be a compensation scheme coming along in 2009, which might cover a little bit of your money if things go wrong.”

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]]> By: darren http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16705 darren Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:32:25 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16705 Stephen John, the righteous one. . . I posted my reply to your request on the other post, as you requested 'your money is safe with Barclays'. You are good at asking questions, and sticking up for the States, but you don't offer any evidence of their capability yourself. Disinformation? Yes, I would say that is what you are offering. As for your query to Steve the UK expat - he makes total sense, the administrators have stated you, or investors in Landisbanki may get 30 pence in the pound. Now I am no mathematical genius however working this calculation backwards, and converting the pence to percentages I would suggest that the statement 'Steve Expat' makes is accurate based on the information that the Administrators have given - this is, what they are hoping to return to investors, not what they will acturally get. Who will make up the 70% then Stephen John? A detailed answer is welcome given that is what you are constantly looking for. Guernsey will still be in business with banking as is stated on other posts, this is seen as a tax avoidance area (people pay higher taxes elsewhere so try and hide the money here). Of course there are a lot of legitimate investors, but the big bucks is likely to be in avoidance / fraud / drug trafficking etc. Stephen John, the righteous one. . .

I posted my reply to your request on the other post, as you requested ‘your money is safe with Barclays’.

You are good at asking questions, and sticking up for the States, but you don’t offer any evidence of their capability yourself.

Disinformation? Yes, I would say that is what you are offering.

As for your query to Steve the UK expat – he makes total sense, the administrators have stated you, or investors in Landisbanki may get 30 pence in the pound. Now I am no mathematical genius however working this calculation backwards, and converting the pence to percentages I would suggest that the statement ‘Steve Expat’ makes is accurate based on the information that the Administrators have given – this is, what they are hoping to return to investors, not what they will acturally get.

Who will make up the 70% then Stephen John? A detailed answer is welcome given that is what you are constantly looking for.

Guernsey will still be in business with banking as is stated on other posts, this is seen as a tax avoidance area (people pay higher taxes elsewhere so try and hide the money here).

Of course there are a lot of legitimate investors, but the big bucks is likely to be in avoidance / fraud / drug trafficking etc.

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]]> By: Stephen John http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16628 Stephen John Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:25:05 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16628 Well David some much needed questions to Steve the Ex Pat. I'm beginning to wonder if he vitriolic, blame everyone but myself approach of a few of the Landsbanki Guernsey investors is starting to become counter productive. I wonder if the "financial innocence" you are implying is beginning to make people wonder if these people are really such financial innocents as they try to make out. Perhaps the tactics and the almost total abdication of any personal responsibilty are detracting from the merit their case may have, and instead make observers wonder if they have cried wolf once too often. It just seems so unrealistic that so many could have deposited so much, in a bank of which they knew so little. Well David some much needed questions to Steve the Ex Pat.

I’m beginning to wonder if he vitriolic, blame everyone but myself approach of a few of the Landsbanki Guernsey investors is starting to become counter productive.

I wonder if the “financial innocence” you are implying is beginning to make people wonder if these people are really such financial innocents as they try to make out.

Perhaps the tactics and the almost total abdication of any personal responsibilty are detracting from the merit their case may have, and instead make observers wonder if they have cried wolf once too often.

It just seems so unrealistic that so many could have deposited so much, in a bank of which they knew so little.

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]]> By: David http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16616 David Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:32:42 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16616 Steve the UK Expat - Guernsey is NOT part of the UK ! The UK Government does NOT govern Guernsey. Please get your facts right and consider whether some of your more ridiculous statements might be presented rather differently if it was factually correct. You actually placed your money in a bank in a jurisdiction seemingly without even checking the status of that jurisdiction and seemingly without checking whether a depositors protection scheme existed. Is it really the responsibility of the Guernsey taxpayer to do your due diligence for you ? Isn't that what financial advisors are for ? They carry professional indemnity insurance cover if they make a reckless investment recommendation. Or were you simply blinded by the rates on offer from a little-known bank without questioning why they were so much higher than the major high street banks and the major instutitions from abroad with operations here ? Steve the UK Expat -

Guernsey is NOT part of the UK ! The UK Government does NOT govern Guernsey. Please get your facts right and consider whether some of your more ridiculous statements might be presented rather differently if it was factually correct.

You actually placed your money in a bank in a jurisdiction seemingly without even checking the status of that jurisdiction and seemingly without checking whether a depositors protection scheme existed. Is it really the responsibility of the Guernsey taxpayer to do your due diligence for you ? Isn’t that what financial advisors are for ? They carry professional indemnity insurance cover if they make a reckless investment recommendation. Or were you simply blinded by the rates on offer from a little-known bank without questioning why they were so much higher than the major high street banks and the major instutitions from abroad with operations here ?

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]]> By: Stephen John http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16602 Stephen John Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:46:51 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16602 Darren Instead of repeating the same post why don't you answer how you come to "States, being as it is (an old boys club with no credibility nnor objectivity in the way it operates) carried on regardless and wasted over $650m in 5 years" Where do you get the $650m of waste from? Steve UK expat. How do you calculate "Depositors loose 70+% of their deposits" I thought they had been offered an interim payment of 30% Add this to 70%plus and you get over 100% Just disinformation? Darren

Instead of repeating the same post why don’t you answer how you come to “States, being as it is (an old boys club with no credibility nnor objectivity in the way it operates) carried on regardless and wasted over $650m in 5 years”

Where do you get the $650m of waste from?

Steve UK expat. How do you calculate “Depositors loose 70+% of their deposits”

I thought they had been offered an interim payment of 30% Add this to 70%plus and you get over 100%

Just disinformation?

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]]> By: Steve The UK Expat http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16592 Steve The UK Expat Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:36:55 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16592 EXCELLENT POST from "J GREEN above. J Green. You hit the nail on the head. Lets get to the marrow of this.. Landsbanki Guernsey failed .. Depositors loose 70+% of their deposits.. Many of the depositors are ex-pat British citizens who had little choice but to deposit their savings offshore… and chose Guernsey because they beleived that their money would be safe there. .. People like YOU and me who have worked for years in the UK.. Paid taxes.. raised children.. served in the armed forces… BRITISH people.. People who thought that an Island which is part of the UK and which had (until recently) been very active protraying itself and its regulation of the banks which operated on its soil as solid and secure… And now the Governement of Guernsey..and it sems the UK.. appear to be doing all that they can to distance themselves from any responsibility which might lead to their having to offer compensation to these same people.. ** Simply disgusting!! ** Who are these jokers? They, (THE GUERNSEY GOVERNMENT acting under the protection..and overall state supervision of the UK GOVERNMENT) were responsible for the regulation and supervision of banking activities of Landsbanki Guernsey…!! Yet! Now that it is clear that such regulation and supervision, (”SUPERVISION” HA HA HA one has to laugh…) of Landsbanki Guernsey failed to prevent this awful event.. THEY, (read the government of Guernsey) fail to take any responsibility for ensuring the repayment of monies lost as a result of the banks failure. Infact, it is clear that they are introducing a scheme AFTER the failure of a bank whilest also making it known to anyone who is willing to listen that this same scheme shall not be available to the very people (read Landsbanki Guernsey depositors) who are in dire need of it. Franky, in this readers oppinion the Guernsey Government is displaying the same type of irresponsible and dubious behaviour that one might attribute to some offshore tax avoidance haven in the South Pacific.. Why invest your funds in a duristiction that does little if anything in the case that the institution they are responsible for overseeing and supervising fails..?? Good question huh!? Well .. easy answer. DO NOT DEPOSIT YOUR FUNDS IN SUCH A DURISTICTION..and.. I woudl go so far as to add.. I would strongly suggest that you withdraw all funds you have currently in such a duristiction without delay AND move them to anbother where at least the depoit protection scheme is far more than just a lot of HUMBUG!! Get your money out while you can!! EXCELLENT POST from “J GREEN above.

J Green. You hit the nail on the head.

Lets get to the marrow of this..

Landsbanki Guernsey failed ..

Depositors loose 70+% of their deposits..

Many of the depositors are ex-pat British citizens who had little choice but to deposit their savings offshore…

and chose Guernsey because they beleived that their money would be safe there. ..

People like YOU and me who have worked for years in the UK..

Paid taxes.. raised children.. served in the armed forces…

BRITISH people..

People who thought that an Island which is part of the UK and which had (until recently) been very active protraying itself and its regulation of the banks which operated on its soil as solid and secure…

And now the Governement of Guernsey..and it sems the UK.. appear to be doing all that they can to distance themselves from any responsibility which might lead to their having to offer compensation to these same people..

** Simply disgusting!! **

Who are these jokers?

They, (THE GUERNSEY GOVERNMENT acting under the protection..and overall state supervision of the UK GOVERNMENT) were responsible for the regulation and supervision of banking activities of Landsbanki Guernsey…!!

Yet! Now that it is clear that such regulation and supervision, (”SUPERVISION” HA HA HA one has to laugh…) of Landsbanki Guernsey failed to prevent this awful event.. THEY, (read the government of Guernsey) fail to take any responsibility for ensuring the repayment of monies lost as a result of the banks failure.

Infact, it is clear that they are introducing a scheme AFTER the failure of a bank whilest also making it known to anyone who is willing to listen that this same scheme shall not be available to the very people (read Landsbanki Guernsey depositors) who are in dire need of it.

Franky, in this readers oppinion the Guernsey Government is displaying the same type of irresponsible and dubious behaviour that one might attribute to some offshore tax avoidance haven in the South Pacific..

Why invest your funds in a duristiction that does little if anything in the case that the institution they are responsible for overseeing and supervising fails..??

Good question huh!?

Well .. easy answer.

DO NOT DEPOSIT YOUR FUNDS IN SUCH A DURISTICTION..and.. I woudl go so far as to add.. I would strongly suggest that you withdraw all funds you have currently in such a duristiction without delay AND move them to anbother where at least the depoit protection scheme is far more than just a lot of HUMBUG!!

Get your money out while you can!!

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]]> By: Darren http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16572 Darren Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:47:22 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16572 Fast Robert - I echo your comments directed at Stephen John about the States of Guerney's economy. I have posted several times on other streams here about the way the financial management of Deputy Trott (as he was) and Dave Clarke during the early to mid 2000's destroyed the sizeable capital (cash terms) reserves of £800m that the States had available for projects or capital expenditure. I understand that issues were raised at the time regarding the excessive capital outlay on multiple projects (Beau Sejour, Prison, New Jetty, Airport etc) however the States, being as it is (an old boys club with no credibility nnor objectivity in the way it operates) carried on regardless and wasted over $650m in 5 years. Had the majority of these funds been retained then it is likely that most private depositors could have had some small recompense from the States; having said that I believe the blame, if you can call it that lies locally with the GFSC and the States, and internationally with the USA and the Senate's decisions to provide 100% mortgages to people with no income et al and have the loan secured against the property instead of the person! Nothing will change - the people in charge in Guernsey have enough money to retire so they don't care about the average joe who makes investments, but they do enjoy playing with a large chess set. Only problem is they seem to think they are playing dominoes. Fast Robert – I echo your comments directed at Stephen John about the States of Guerney’s economy.
I have posted several times on other streams here about the way the financial management of Deputy Trott (as he was) and Dave Clarke during the early to mid 2000’s destroyed the sizeable capital (cash terms) reserves of £800m that the States had available for projects or capital expenditure.
I understand that issues were raised at the time regarding the excessive capital outlay on multiple projects (Beau Sejour, Prison, New Jetty, Airport etc) however the States, being as it is (an old boys club with no credibility nnor objectivity in the way it operates) carried on regardless and wasted over $650m in 5 years.
Had the majority of these funds been retained then it is likely that most private depositors could have had some small recompense from the States; having said that I believe the blame, if you can call it that lies locally with the GFSC and the States, and internationally with the USA and the Senate’s decisions to provide 100% mortgages to people with no income et al and have the loan secured against the property instead of the person!
Nothing will change – the people in charge in Guernsey have enough money to retire so they don’t care about the average joe who makes investments, but they do enjoy playing with a large chess set.
Only problem is they seem to think they are playing dominoes.

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]]> By: J Green http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16530 J Green Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:27:46 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16530 Guernsey is finished as an offshore banking centre unless the authorities take decisive action with regard to the Landsbanki scandal. On the very day that Landsbanki went into administration, their website was still stating that Landsbanki Guernsey was a safe home for depositors money which was backed by a guarantee from the parent bank. Was the Guernsey regulator so far detached from reality that he didn't know what was going on, in which case, why did he permit the Bank to post such misleading and factually incorrect information on its website ? Don't kid yourself that there is any serious regulation in Guernsey and without a swift resolution of this crisis, nobody will bank there in future. Guernsey is finished as an offshore banking centre unless the authorities take decisive action with regard to the Landsbanki scandal. On the very day that Landsbanki went into administration, their website was still stating that Landsbanki Guernsey was a safe home for depositors money which was backed by a guarantee from the parent bank. Was the Guernsey regulator so far detached from reality that he didn’t know what was going on, in which case, why did he permit the Bank to post such misleading and factually incorrect information on its website ? Don’t kid yourself that there is any serious regulation in Guernsey and without a swift resolution of this crisis, nobody will bank there in future.

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]]> By: Richard H http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16503 Richard H Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:42:26 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16503 Fast Robert - I think you might find that money laundering is rife in Guernsey, as it is elsewhere, it's just that no one in the channel islands knows how to combat it effectively - however this may change with the new civil forfeiture laws; depends on the quality of staff I suppose. As for AML's at banks they don't stop money laundering per say (although they can recommend business is turned away) - they report their findings to the relevant authorities if they meet certain criteria. I'm yet to meet an AML who has identified money laundering - it is usually the authorities who discover it. Fast Robert – I think you might find that money laundering is rife in Guernsey, as it is elsewhere, it’s just that no one in the channel islands knows how to combat it effectively – however this may change with the new civil forfeiture laws; depends on the quality of staff I suppose.
As for AML’s at banks they don’t stop money laundering per say (although they can recommend business is turned away) – they report their findings to the relevant authorities if they meet certain criteria.
I’m yet to meet an AML who has identified money laundering – it is usually the authorities who discover it.

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]]> By: Darren http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16500 Darren Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:34:03 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16500 Guernseyman - you are very sure of yourself I would say; you do make some valid points, however in respect of GFSC's remit I would suggest that part of their remit is to consider the strengths and weaknesses of trading entities by conducting the appropriate risk assessment. This would naturally include external factors including international OECD activity, tax, Government Policy and international treaty agreements. If GFSC took a macro view to assessing the risk instead of the micro one it appears to have taken I would suggest maybe that their recommendations may have been somewhat different. Utlimately a number of factors come into play and they are not to blame entirely, but I think your vision is quite narrow as to their prime function. Guernseyman – you are very sure of yourself I would say; you do make some valid points, however in respect of GFSC’s remit I would suggest that part of their remit is to consider the strengths and weaknesses of trading entities by conducting the appropriate risk assessment.
This would naturally include external factors including international OECD activity, tax, Government Policy and international treaty agreements.
If GFSC took a macro view to assessing the risk instead of the micro one it appears to have taken I would suggest maybe that their recommendations may have been somewhat different.
Utlimately a number of factors come into play and they are not to blame entirely, but I think your vision is quite narrow as to their prime function.

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]]> By: David http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16484 David Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:30:26 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16484 Stephen - Who knows ? One would assume tax planning, which of course includes tax avoidance and possibly mere tax deferral. Perhaps one of the parties was non-resident and insisted on a tax-neutral jurisdiction rather than unnecessarily being taxed in the other party's jurisdiction when not actually resident there. It could have been for commercial confidentiality reasons so that nobody could trace beneficial ownership without any tax avoidance motive at all. There are many valid reasons why such a company may be set up offshore, as well as some illegal ones, of course. Impossible to know what anyone's actual motive is without first-hand knowledge. Stephen -

Who knows ? One would assume tax planning, which of course includes tax avoidance and possibly mere tax deferral. Perhaps one of the parties was non-resident and insisted on a tax-neutral jurisdiction rather than unnecessarily being taxed in the other party’s jurisdiction when not actually resident there. It could have been for commercial confidentiality reasons so that nobody could trace beneficial ownership without any tax avoidance motive at all. There are many valid reasons why such a company may be set up offshore, as well as some illegal ones, of course. Impossible to know what anyone’s actual motive is without first-hand knowledge.

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]]> By: Fast Robert http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16473 Fast Robert Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:47:31 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16473 It just proves that megabucks passes from poorer countries to tax havens, legitimate or not. It just proves that megabucks passes from poorer countries to tax havens, legitimate or not.

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]]> By: Stephen John http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16467 Stephen John Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:31:15 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16467 Fast Robert asks "why did they choose Guernsey to place their holding company?" Tax avoidance and or tax planning? Fast Robert asks “why did they choose Guernsey to place their holding company?”

Tax avoidance and or tax planning?

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]]> By: Guernseyman http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16466 Guernseyman Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:29 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/23/your-money-is-safe-with-barclays/#comment-16466 Steve the UK expat. Not only have you got the link beteween the UK and Guernsey wrong, you appear to to have also missed the point on the GFSC's remit, which is to regulate the activities of Landsbanki Guernsey. Last time I checked, Landsbanki Guernsey did not fail because of their Guernsey based activities but because of what happened in Iceland. I am pretty sure that the remit of the GFSC does not cover regulating Icelandic banks or banks in any other country for that matter. Fast Robert. David is right, Guernsey has disclosure regulations and laws regarding benfiacial owners whereas if my memory serves me right Jersey doesn't. So go post your conspiricy thoeries on their websites. Finally on the topic of this article you have to be crazy to think Barclays is about to fail. They aren't even calling on government money like Lloyds or RBS and the government has openly stated that they are one of the core 8 banks that they would support no matter what. Mr Leaman's article appears to therefore be a good marketing move. Steve the UK expat.

Not only have you got the link beteween the UK and Guernsey wrong, you appear to to have also missed the point on the GFSC’s remit, which is to regulate the activities of Landsbanki Guernsey.

Last time I checked, Landsbanki Guernsey did not fail because of their Guernsey based activities but because of what happened in Iceland. I am pretty sure that the remit of the GFSC does not cover regulating Icelandic banks or banks in any other country for that matter.

Fast Robert.

David is right, Guernsey has disclosure regulations and laws regarding benfiacial owners whereas if my memory serves me right Jersey doesn’t. So go post your conspiricy thoeries on their websites.

Finally on the topic of this article you have to be crazy to think Barclays is about to fail. They aren’t even calling on government money like Lloyds or RBS and the government has openly stated that they are one of the core 8 banks that they would support no matter what. Mr Leaman’s article appears to therefore be a good marketing move.

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