GUERNSEY is starting to run out of buses.
Improved services and a lack of replacements mean that a problem is looming when it comes to renewing the fleet.
And in the meantime, because paid parking has not yet been introduced, a funding gap of effectively two years has arisen.
The department will go the States soon with its latest favoured option for charging.
‘We have taken the opportunity to acquire buses whenever they come onto the market, but they are a very specific type of bus. It’s only Gibraltar, Guernsey and Jersey that have a market for them and they are no longer manufactured,’ said Environment minister Peter Sirett.
And he warned that soon it would be necessary to replace the entire fleet.
‘That will be a major issue,’ said Deputy Sirett.
Bus passenger figures are still on the increase and another record was broken last year.
‘It’s dramatic the way people are realising the buses are a good thing to use, but we’re becoming a victim of our own success and that’s difficult to maintain.’
He said the department had a superb relationship with Island Coachways, which operates the services.
But Environment faces having to lay on more school buses for St Sampson’s High when St Peter Port fully closes.
‘We don’t have the budget to address the situation, so that takes us back to paid parking,’ he said.
The department is coming back to the States with a report on paid parking after its predecessor failed to introduce a scheme despite a States resolution in its favour.
Environment is tight-lipped, but it looks likely to come up with a different scheme not based on an hourly rate.
‘It’s a big issue. Our funding for the road transport strategy is based on the premise we get funding from a parking system,’ said Deputy Sirett.
‘We have to acquire the money needed to do what we do and it has to be through some form of charge for parking.’
So far, Treasury and Resources has supported the department by buying secondhand replacements when they come onto the market.
The original fleet is about six years old.
The buses can last 10 to 14 years or more, but maintenance costs mean that is not necessarily economical.
A decision is needed ‘reasonably soon’ about whether to go for a wholesale or a rolling replacement programme and whether it should be like-for-like replacements or different models in the fleet.
Funding options could include working with the private sector.
Article posted on 2nd January, 2009 - 2.30pm
65 Article Comments
Island is running out of buses. Maybe there is a god after all. All we need now is to run out of push bikes and the traffic can get moving.
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When looking at replacements I hope they consider the smaller buses that were used for the “Park and Ride” link. The current buses are far too large for Guernsey roads and most of the time the smaller buses would handle demand.
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Heck ! Its all spend, spend, spend !!!!!
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Paid parking? How pathetic.
This will drive yet more St Peter Port traders out of business. If this is introduced I will still recycle but simply empty the contents of my recycling bins into the gutter as a mark of disgust aimed at our states members.
I would urge others to do the same. What is the point in doing our bit for the states when they are intent on driving us into a self made poverty for their own ends.
This must be good news for all businesses that can and will offer their customers free parking. Those that can’t will quickly fold.
We wish to remain as independent but at the same time are adopting things that others hate about the world.
I do hope this does not come into force. This Island will lose a lot of charm and it will bring th ugly people into play. Wheel clampers and vehicle removal companies with no compassion other than an eye on their profit margins.
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With Western Europe going into a major recession, do you really think any bus manufacturer is going to turn down an order, even for a specialised type of bus ?
How about teaming up with Jersey and Gibraltar, who must have the same problem, to ‘bulk buy’ new buses and cut the unit cost ?
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Lets hope the next fleet will be smaller, they should just bump the fee’s up. 60p to go anywhere on the island, people in England don’t believe me when I say. Charge a rate of 50p, 70p and 80p depending on how far they are traveling. I couldn’t get from one stop to the next in england for less than £1. Why are they wanting to charge cars to fund buses in the form for payed parking? Buses are so often empty it is more efficient for a person to drive their car. Charge bus users for their inefficiency and environmental impact.
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Will they at least make any new busses small enough for the island. There is no getting around it, they are too big for most of the roads. The amount of times Ive been shoved close to banks is shocking, and scary with my 5 year old in the car. Its about time they listened to public opinion on the busses.
Why must they replace the entire fleet anyway? its just another excuse to tax car drivers. If they put paid parking in town then I hope that they also put paid parking at frossard house to make things fair.
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They could buy new Optare Solo SR Slimline M960 which is 9.6 metres long and seats 33 or the Optare Solo SR Slimline M890 which seats 29 as they are very narrow at 2.3 metres!
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I agree with Paul Le P
Why not have smaller buses for the non-peak hours and keep the bigger ones for more busy times of the day?
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Come on, lets be serious, when will the State EVER listen to the public. They are not likely to order smaller buses just because they would be safer and more appropriate. That would be far too sensible. If you all remember correctly, an article published some months ago indicated that new buses would be larger by about 11cm.
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Why oh why aren’t we buying the company that makes our buses to ensure continuing fuel… sorry…. bus supplies to the island?
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Perhaps I’m not looking at the right time of day but I’ve never seen a bus with more than half a dozen passengers in it and yet the bus company management claim to have carried record numbers in 2008.
Am I right in thinking that the company earns X pence subsidy per passenger from the tax payer ?
Who provides the passenger numbers to the relevant States department ?
Who in that department checks the figures and how do they go about it ?
I’m sure everything is tickety-boo but I just can’t equate half a dozen per bus to record numbers
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Paid parking is the beginning then come the wheel clampers/tow away men and a host of other state sponsored highwaymen.
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Ray – it’s fairly simple maths. If a bus carried an average of 3 passengers a day in 2007, and 6 passengers per day in 2008 that is a 100% increase in bus usage.
Andy – quite right, depending on the way paid parking is enforced we WILL need wheel clampers, either that or parking tickets. And state highwaymen would be a fantastic means of reducing the funding gap!! I like that you’re thinking outside the box!! Have you considered running for the states?
Does anyone know if paid parking will include an equivalent tax on businesses with private parking? It only seems fair that the managing director of, I dunno, RBC, should pay the same as the guy behind the till in the Candy Shop.
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Everyone knows that the only current use for a bus is to serve the many island alcoholics. The islands alcoholics are going up in number which explains a lot. This is also why most of the general public would not be seen dead on a bus. If they legalised drink driving, we would not need a bus service at all and we would not get stuck behind archaically s l o w means of transport only capable of 25mph which just isn’t acceptably fast enough.
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Hopefully Richard R’s tongue is placed firmly in his cheek….an interesting statistic he might like to consider…” 15% of road accidents are caused by drunken drivers” Following on from that, in a straight line of logic, then 85% of accidents are caused by sober drivers. So if everyone was driving in an inebriated state statistically there would be fewer accidents.
Does that support your cause a little Richard?
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I’m not sure how introducing paid parking will open the door for private companies running clamp/tow schemes. Surely that could happen now?
The ‘commuters’ that clog up the town parking and residential streets too should have to pay for the privilege of putting private vehicles in public spaces.
Similarly, companies that own parking spaces should be charged through the nose and pass this on to employees as a reduction of salary.
The idea is to get people off the road for unnecessary journeys. If you are stuck behind ‘an unacceptably’ slow bus then you are doing the same journey.
The reason why ‘most of the general public would not be seen dead on a bus’ is because we are car worshipping snobs. Very unattractive.
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Student Bob
I hope you are a secondary school student cos that would explain the mentality of the last paragraph of your posting.
I can confidently let you know that private businesses would not be taxed because there would be no point in owning private property and the Islands infrastructure would simply collapse.
Richard Robilliard
Read over your post and comment again. Would you honestly endorse drunks blasting around the Island with whatever vehicle they choose and buses traveling at whatever speed they wish.
If so I doubt you have any children. If you are serious with your views I also hope that you never have any cos you would make a dangerous father!
Buses are restricted for everybodies health and safety. It a shame that skip lorries and other heavy goods vehicles aren’t. I have often came across these drivers that think they are king of the road and expect others to get out of their way.
Drunks behind the wheel. No thanks.
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Fast Robert
I bet you are a car driver?
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I agree with Caz – at least this may be an opportunity to introduce smaller, more appropriate vehicles. How about double deckers like the old London buses, which could carry as many, but would be narrower? If only they did elecric versions… Or here’s another idea – in places like Cyprus I believe, they have “service taxis” which are cars or MPVs but could do a regular route and pick up people on the way.How many times have you seen taxis in the early hours with just one person in?
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Paul
Andy has a good point in his last paragraph.
If paid parking is going to be introduced in order to ease congestion on the roads twice a day then the person on his way to his private underground space in the Truchot ( or to his free space at Frossard House )is causing just as much congestion in the Grange or the Terres as the shopworker hoping to find a space on Salarie corner.
If the intention is merely to keep the piers free to be grassed over for picnics etc then paid parking will probably help.
Not sure that it will help keep the fading Town alive though.
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Ray
What is the point in purchasing your own land then? Why stop there, how about taxing private driveways as well!
Private property is just that. If people purchase it it is theirs. If our authorities wished to place taxes in this way then it would scare many, if not all, from wishing to purchase land on the Island.
This is a tax that will cost more than it would ever be worth in monetry terms.
What next congestion taxes?
This is a very greedy little Island. It is doing nothing other than putting people off from doing business here.
I wonder how Specsavers and supermarkets would feel about these taxes?
Grin and bear them.
They would say one word!
Seeya
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Ray
I did not comment on anything Andy posted!
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The usual bunkum by Peter Sirett. I honestly have no idea how he maintains his ‘political’ position. All I can say is that the sooner our wretched buses disappear from our roads the better. They are a menace (as everyone knew they would be) and I am sick and tired of having to drive up pavements or be bullied into hedges to avoid angry and arrogant bus drivers and their stupid over-sized buses. (Mind you, I’d be angry if I had to try and drive one of those ridiculous vehicles around our tiny roads).
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Get over yourselves people, our buses are fine. Mobile traffic calming measures. I challenge anyone not to slow down when they see one of those coming.
As for the ’story’ replace the whole fleet? Already? Hmmmmmmmm are we still acting like we have money?
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Paul, we obviously have an ideological difference of opinion here, I favour an egalitarian principle, whereby those finance workers with private spaces contribute equally for the right to town parking with those on a minimum wage who staff retail outlets.
I’m a little saddened that you disagree, Guernsey is a greedy little island already, and such thinking does little to dissuade that opinion.
I don’t profess to have the answers, but if a way to tax those town centre business with private parking allotted solely for their employees could be introduced, would you not agree that it would be fair? I see no reason to tax Specsavers and out-of-town business, they don’t contribute to the parking problem in town after all.
Consider it a new form of that 18th century favourite, the Window Tax.
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Speed cameras are a much better idea than paid parking and easier to sell too due to the health and safety aspect rather than just blatant revenue raising.
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Student Bob
People that have purchased land in Guernsey have paid very dearly for it in the first place. To tax them futher is just plain greedy and the resentment will cause many to up sticks and go elsewhere.
We need all the businesses that we can lay our hands on. The last thing we need to be doing is driving them away with threats of taxation on whatever our authorities can dream up next.
If the busses can’t make ends meet then they should simply fold and go gracefully.
We need business but what we don’t need is businesses that beg the taxpayers to keep them afloat.
As an Island we have been far too greedy in some areas and far too generous in others.
Make a profit or just leave. Bus users don’t contribute to my chosen modes of transport. If only I could dream up ways of geting them to then I would be most interested.
Paid parking will damage St Peter Port businesses quicker than the credit crunch or any other disaster ever could.
We are all living on less. We have less disposabe income to spend. In yet you would argue that it would be fair to releive shoppers of their cash before they even start shopping?
Supermarkets will simply increase their non food goods as a direct result to the parking tax and shops will fold.
Gurnsey Post will also see a massive increase in business due to people realising that they don’t have to even bother paying for fuel, parking and actually make substantial savings by shopping online.
This Island and its mentality has itself and its greedy ways to blame. I have no smpathy at all.
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Paul, have you left the island? Ever? I’m studying in one of the poorest areas of the UK and everyone there seems happy enough to pay £1 for an hours parking whilst they do their shopping. I’m happy paying £1 whilst I go shopping – and I’m a student!!
Would you pay £1 to pretty much guarantee a good parking space in town? I bet a lot of people would. Would you pay, say, a fiver to park your car on the Salerie all day whilst you shuffle paper on your desk and contribute to online forums? Would it make you consider taking the bus? If we could find a way to tax town centre EMPLOYEE parking, and I’ll say that again, as you missed it earlier – EMPLOYEE parking at £5 per day per space, would you not agree that it would be a worthwhile source of income? I’m not stupid, I know that the office worker will never see this employee parking tax passed on to them – it’ll just be another part of the package. but, hopefully, if our precious banks do feel the pinch, maybe they could pass it onto their employees?
The thing is, you know, some people need a bus service. Like my gran. Do you really want my gran walking 3 miles into town in this weather? At her age?
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Student Bob
What section of the proposed paid parking law says that you will be GUARANTEED a parking space by dibbing up a fiver per day?
If after a few weeks of the usual moaning people accept paid parking as the new norm then they will still have to arrive at North Beach before 8am to secure an UNGUARANTEED space
Sorry Paul I meant Bob not Andy earlier
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Student Bob
I have not even given mention to grandmothers or any old folk come to that. However, yes I do mind paying good money to park my car in town as many others will.
I have left the Island many times and studied away also.
I don’t use the busses so why should anybody expect me to contribute towards them. Those that depend on them should pay a fee that is enough to at least make the company wash its own face because I wash mine thanks.
Retailers don’t earn a great deal for your information. Most retailers are struggling just to stay open and are looking into making their operations as lean as possible.
£25 a week is a substantial amount of money for those that are already on limited wages. It is all well and good to jump in with the arguement that they have the option of using the bus.
However when workers have children to drop off at kinder garden and then pick them back up again i’m afraid the bus service just doesn’t cut the mustard.
I am one of the many in Guerney that will stop and offer a lift to people stuck at a bus stop.
People that need services should be prepared to pay for them is all i’m saying. Nobody gives me anything towards my transportation costs. I would not look any gift horses in the mouth though.
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An interesting point is hit on that those that can pay will pay anyway and so the situation of trawling for spaces at 8.45 remains. It sticks one in the eye for those that say that cars are essential for getting the kids to school and then getting to work. Who drops their kids off at school at 7.45?
Unpaid parking is an oddity. We are using what is essentially old-fashioned commonland for what is a private privilege, not a right. If we were to extend the same gratuity to other things then perhaps we could have free electricity and food, something that would be much more welcome? Using an energy hungry vehicle should be paid for through the nose in these times of dwindling resources. Or perhaps we don’t agree that resources are dwindling?
This is Guernsey, for goodness sake, not the US or any such other BIG place. I fancy most people could walk into town in half an hour, let alone take the bus.
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Paul you say “People that need services should be prepared to pay for them is all i’m saying.”
In that case, can I take it that you are arguing for privatisation of everything? Zero tax and zero public services? Pay for the hospital only if you are sick (plenty of people have never used the Medical Specialist Group), pay proportionately for sewage treatment based on how many times you go to the toilet perhaps?
The point about paid parking is that we need to reduce car use. At present there are insufficient bus-users to increase investment in the current routes, but as more people turn to the buses then route frequency will increase.
And may I ask, Paul, where you feel that as an island we are “far too greedy” and where we are “far too generous”? Perhaps far too generous in our treatment of companies, by eliminating their tax burden, and far too greedy when it comes to the squirelling away of funds better used for public services.
And finally, you state that you shouldn’t contribute to the buses as you don’t use them, but you DO use car parks, but don’t want to pay? Why should I, who never uses the St Peter Port parking, indirectly contribute to a service I never use, when thousands do, day in, day out for no charge at all?
Your argument is nonsense really, isn’t it.
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My apologies Ray for the unsubstantiated statement, although, I did say ‘pretty much guarantee’. Leaving semantics aside, I based my comment on UK and European studies conducted into paid parking which show an average of 20% and at times up to 72% reduction in private car usage (Feeney et al, 2004) (Millard-Bell, 2002) where paid parking is introduced.
If £1 isn’t enough to make you consider not parking, maybe we should up the cost (I had based my assumed parking charges on the NCP average for the area where I am at university)? The point, after all, is to try and reduce the number of cars on the road!!
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We are all,including Environment,guessing what might happen if paid parking is introduced,so come you Jersey bloggers,help us out a bit!
Has paid parking worked in Jersey?
Are there empty public spaces awaiting your arrival on workdays?
Has paid parking eased traffic congestion?
Have you stopped using your car to commute to St Helier?
Does your employer subsidise your parking charges ?
How much does it cost per hour in Town commuter parks?
We have no multi-storey parking… will that make a difference ?
What are the penalties for overparking?
How many traffic wardens are employed to police paid parking?
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I am pleased Guernsey is running out of buses, they are to big for the roads anyway.
Deputy Serrit needs to learn how to GOOGLE, it has just taken me about 15 seconds to find a Bus Company, that has buses available today that would be perfect for Guernsey.
I am personally not a bus user, but they are needed in Guernsey as there are people without transport.
The fact is Guernsey people are lazy and maybe having less buses on the road will help the fitness and health of a number of Islanders.
There is no need for paid parking here, to be honest there shouldn’t even be traffic wardens doing a pointless job of walking up and down the piers all day, the police should be able to cover illegally parked cars. The money that would be saved on Traffic Waldens salaries alone would go towards what the States would make on Paid-Parking.
There you go I just made the States £100K a year, based on 4 traffic Wardens earning £25K a year.
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Paid Parking is a tax on the wealth generators of this island. We didn’t put the shops, offices, schools and State buildings in the same square mile.
The bus company does a good job where it can, but let’s not kid ourselves that it is the solution to al ltransport ‘problems’. It would be virtually impossible for me to function and run my busy life bringing up two young children and working without a car.
Roffey got it wrong. What does he know about commuting? Never lived in town, never worked in town, never had children, never done a school run, never used a car. His holier than thou attitude to people who work and contribute substantially to the island is rather patronising and dim.
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Jackie says “Paid Parking is a tax on the wealth generators of this island.”
The maintenance of unpaid parking is a tax on everyone for the benefit of the few. If you choose to drive into town then you should pay for the privilege. The alternative would be to catch a bus. Your choice. The defence of gratuities and favours for private vehicle users is null and void.
The flat yearly charge is a nonsense too.
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Your logic is incorrect as usual FR. Using your argument, you benefit from freer streets because commuters work in town. Therefore we free up the island for you. You should be paying us :)
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Hang on….Don’t car drivers already contribute to the States (and therefore the free parking) every time they turn on their engines?
The shift from Road Tax to fuel Duty already achieves what paid parking “might do” and it captures those that park privately as well as those that park publicly…I can’t really see why we need another instrument to force people on to the bus when we already have the catchall of fuel duty which is fairly applied to everyone? If the States really want to force people out of their cars (or out of town) why not simply take back some of the car parking space and create parks, walkways, cycle lanes and better bus shelters?
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How does FR benefit from freer streets? Not everyone who works in town uses the free car parks! I manage to work in town (and in a second job out of town), get my children to school and not use a car! And I can tell you that the journeys are a nightmare due to the HUGE numbers of cars (most occupied by just one person…) clogging up the streets.
Logic? None in your post at all.
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I must say that I am rather shocked by the amount of people that are wanting to chuck even more of their disposable income at our authorities.
The credit crunch is just starting to bite and the mentality of some is that they would be happy to be taxed even further. Why?
This Island appears to have lots of people with more money than sense. I’m looking for a fine looking lady with this as a quality.
Does any of the posters have any pointers?
I’d be most generous to the person that hooked me up!
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Some of the comments on here give a perfect example as to why Guernsey was crazy to ever encourage such liberal use of the car on such a small island. Driving our own vehicles should always have been an expensive way to travel and that would have encouraged us to invest in the alternative forms of travel… a really good public transport system together with cycling and walking. In the long run, we would have protected and enhanced our local environment and saved ourselves a lot of money.
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Paid parking, TRP, increase in fuel duty, etc etc…..
Why not just up the rate of income tax by a couple of percent and save on States administration of all these duties/stealth taxes/whatever you want to call them?
How’s that for a master plan?
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Russ – I agree with you in theory – at the very least the idea warrants investigation. Such a scheme though would require changes to allowances to ensure the lower paid were not unfairly treated.
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Hear, hear Belinda and Rosie and FR. I suspect most of the earlier posters on this thread are smug, self-satisfied, car addicted snobs who have never been on a bus in their lives. I just want to tell them that I was on the 3.35pm 7A from Town this afternoon and it was almost standing room only – a microcosm of the success of a bus service that has steadily improved in recent years. The latest bus use figures speak for themselves but I am very fearful that under Sirrett (a totally uninspiring politician if ever there was one) the Environment Department will start taking us back to the dark ages of public transport. If the subsidy is removed or lessened and prices go up it’s not just our environment that will suffer. The people I see on the buses are the less privileged in our society – pensioners, low paid workers, students, mums with kids – who tend not to have much of a voice in matters like these. The States supported bus service is one of the few ways in which our government is actually making a difference to these people and the tragedy is that they’re the ones who will end up losing out the most.
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Russ
The advantage of a paid parking scheme is that it would allow transparent targeted spending of the revenue earned.
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Martyn
I have been on a bus! I traveled to school on one on a regular basis. Fares would only need to rise by around 10 or 20 pence per person to turn the companies losses into a profit.
Demand is picking up all the time then? Seems rather strange that they are still holding out their hands for more taxpayers money?
I don’t wish to support or finance something that I have no desire to use. Its as simple as that!
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Paul,
I respect your feelings but I actualy do wish to help fund socialy useful services which I have no intention of using. That doesn’t apply to buses a I do use them but it would apply to many other things – the public library for instance. In my view its called “society” where we all help fund important things for the common good. Don’t forget the car drivers of Guernsey will benefit too if congestion is reduced through greater use of the buses. That said I know this subject engenders strong and diverse feelings and I respect yours.
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The passenger numbers are calculated, by bus users,ie school children, cruise line visitors ect. As many as 40% do not pay and all are party or fully subsidised. When you add up numbers per trip, it is about five people including imported driver.
We are now very short of money and will be even more, in the furture,so can we keep poring money into another ” black hole”.
We will have to choose,to put our money, where it is best used,for the island and its people.
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Paul…. earlier on in this topic, you repeatedly say that Guernsey is greedy and selfish without for a moment seeming to recognise those very qualities oozing out of your own replies. I would go even further and say that that (greedy/selfish) description is in no small measure due to the type of attitude that you are displaying.
Although cars are very useful for some of our journeys, they are not necessary for all of them. When you use your car, you get the benefit of it but no-one else benefits….. we all get the dis-benefit of your car being on the road. But that doesn’t bother you…. you are going to use it anyway because that is what you want whether it is a problem for the island or not. Sounds pretty selfish to me.
Because your driving creates a cost for Guernsey, both in environmental and financial terms, you should have to pay handsomely for the privilege of having the benefit only you are enjoying. Mass transit on the other hand, is a benefit for everyone. It gives everyone the freedom to travel around the island irrespective of their situation…. we all have access to it.
A fantastic public transport system would allow many struggling families to manage with less car-use so saving them money. Less cars on the road would enable more of our children to walk and cycle safely to school keeping them fitter and healthier and reducing the need for parents to do the school run.
As for saying that Guernsey’s charm is dependent on it’s free parking… it is an embarrassment more like. Our history of free parking and inexpensive petrol has encouraged the belief that cheap driving is a right and not a privilege. It is what has got us into the pickle we are in today and should have been a pretty easy consequence to predict…. hence the reason for embarrassment.
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Ok I thought – I’ll take the advice of bus lovers and have a go!
I start work in Town at 07:45 and live in one of the far flung corners of St Martins – but near a bus stop.
A quick look at the timetable…Hmmm…first bus at 08:05 and gets to the terminus at 08:40. It takes me a max of 10 minutes in the car. Door to door.
Sorry, buses failed.
Lets face facts here – buses are only an alternative to the car/bike for a small minority.
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Looking at the bus timetable… there is a bus that goes thru’ St Martin’s 7:30ish and gets to town 7:45a.m.
Despite that… you are right that there are not enough buses. That is why they need the investment.
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Rosie – to have enough buses to move everyone about at a “convenient” time you’d end up with as many buses as there are cars now – which defeats the object.
The big issue with public transport in Guernsey is that we do not have mass movement from point A to B (i.e. we all live on the Bridge and work in Town) – its all over the shop! It will never work for all.
But back to the main point. The “motorist” should not directly fund buses by paid parking. Fine if its from more general revenue (fuel tax etc).
I’d be much more radical (as this is an environmental issue) and punitively tax any vehicle that pumps out more that 150g/km of carbon dioxide at, say, 5k per annum.
You’d therefore tax the better off, encourage smaller road vehicles, reduce the temtation for larger families and negate the need for pay parking!
What about an MOT too – that would get rid of about a third of the cars on the road as they wouldn’t pass! Half the fee to the garage and half to the States.
Oh no a compromise solution….
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Gilthead – Guernsey, with its linear pattern of development – i.e. housing that tends to follow the main roads, rather than ‘being clumped in towns/villages – is the ideal candidate for a good bus service, if buses trundle down the main roads at 15 min intervals – more or less, then they should be convenient for everyone. Do you live within a few minutes walk of a bus route?
I think you’ll also find that the ‘better off’ tend to have nice shiny new cars, that are environmentally friendly already. I’m a student and ‘worse off’ and my car is an environmental disaster!! If you’re going to tax me, then we should speak about increasing my grant correspondingly…
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Gilthead. I absolutely fail to see how you think that to have enough buses at a convenient time, we would need as many buses as there are cars. And there is significant “mass movement” in Guernsey – hence the traffic jams on key, arterial roads into town at key times.
Your idea for taxing energy-guzzling cars annually warrants further thought, no doubt, but does nothing to tackle the greater issue of excessive car usage. That is the problem facing Guernsey, and a problem that public transport can go a long way to alleviate.
Further thought could be given to investment in more “park and ride” schemes for those living in areas not directly (or sufficiently conveniently) located to the routes. Thinking of you here Gilthead – and the chance of your being able to park near a bus stop that serves a route operating at a convenient time! The aim has to be for there to be less mileage accrued on our roads by private vehicles, and more on the public transport network, or by walking or cycling!
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I don’t know which bus timetable Gilthead had “a quick look at” but it’s certainly not the winter schedule I’ve got in my hands right now. There are several excellent early morning commuter options for getting from St Martin’s to Town for 0745. The first 6S (South) of the day makes an extensive sweep of the parish and takes only 15 minutes to go from the village to the Town terminus for an arrival at the terminus at 0745 precisely. If that’s too tight, why not go for the first 7A service of the day that stops at St Margaret’s Lodge at 0721, passing through the village at 0724 and arriving at the terminus at 0738? No real excuse for giving the bus service a proper, serious go, Gilthead, so pick up a wave and save card, get your £15 worth of credit (enough for 50 journeys) and sit back and enjoy the ride!
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Student Bob / Martyn – yes I do live within a few minutes walk of a bus stop. The first bus is at 08:05 – those passing through St Martins village are a 15 minute yomp. Bear in mind I’ve already walked the dogs for a good 30 mins (rain or shine).
Belinda – what on earth is exessive car usage?
Martyn – £15 lasts me two weeks in my (almost) 70mpg diesel Ford (116g/kmCO2). Its probably getting close to 50 trips too!
The point I was making is that the bus service whilst excellent will never totally replace the car or bike. Not whilst we still have them.
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I don’t think anyone has suggested that you could have enough buses to replace ALL car journey. As I said in my earlier post, cars are very convenient and even vital for some journeys… however, they are in no way necessary for all our journeys. We could be more discriminatory about when we use them and recognise that the benefit they offer us, comes as a negative for the rest of the community.
Because cars have a negative impact on the island, using them should be an expensive option and to encourage us all to use the alternatives, they should make a considerable contribution to the running costs of the alternatives so that the cost advantage of using the less damaging form of transport is extreme. The more you use your car, the more you should pay. That way, we could still use our cars when we need to, but we would all be much more inclined to try to find ways to leave the car at home.
I totally agree with your point that the bigger and more polluting the vehicle, the more they should pay too…. we were crazy to ever get rid of the motor tax which was simply another tool we had in the box that could have been used to target the vehicles unsuitable for a small island and that contribute disproportionately to our greenhouse emissions.
MOT too…. bring it on!!
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Rosie – agree with you!
Except that I don’t altogether think that cars in themselves have a negative impact on the island.
Its actually the number of them that is the problem! Which correlates to the number of people. Less people, less cars, better for everybody.
As I’ve noted many a time most of Guernsey’s problems, and the words for that matter, is population and all that comes with it.
I’m afraid that by taxing motorists to try to get them on buses et al is treating the symptom and not the root cause.
But I guess that debate is for another thread!
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I think we all agree, Gilthead, that our current level of consumption combined with our current level of population is having a negative effect on our island’s environment and our quality of life here. Where Rosie and I part company from you is that we believe this tiny island CAN sustain a population of 60k providing we take SERIOUS measures to slash consumption, starting with car use.
We could turn things round almost overnight with bold and imaginative leadership but we are stuck with a so-called Environment Department that is merely tinkering at the edges and I agree that the paid parking ‘package’ that looks like being taken to the States simply probably isn’t worth the administrative bother.
It would be more effective, for example, to have a colour coded parking clock scheme as a revenue earner for public transport. Perhaps green clocks for short term spaces (shoppers etc) costing, say, £100 each; red clocks costing £250 for commuters that are allied to 5 and 10 hour zones; and another sort of clock for residents’ parking in urban 24 hour zones. If you lose your clock, tough, you have to buy another one, while the current penalties for staying over time are ludicrously low at £30 and should be bumped up to at least £50. A simple scheme that would be easy to administer but don’t expect this sort of thinking for Sirrett’s lot, who appear to be giving us the worst of both worlds!
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Does anyone experience REAL congestion on our roads other than at commuter times ?
I don’t just mean when your stuck behind a horse or a cyclist.
I can get from the Bridge to Town in about ten minutes once the workers ( the lifeblood of our Town ) have parked up
By the way if you have experienced REAL congestion don’t moan too much because you would have been partly to blame for it !
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To dispell a lot of the myths mentioned above …
The subsidy, as I understand it, is based on the total cost of running the bus service, minus the money taken in as fares. So the more people that travel, and the more fares taken in, the subsidy paid DECREASES it doesn’t INCREASE.
All those who have found replacement smaller buses – do they have the full disabled access as the current fleet?
All those of you who want smaller buses – to cope with peak demand you would need even more of them !!! Which means that it would cost more to replace the existing 30 odd buses with 40/50/60 smaller ones. And it would cost more to run the services – more buses would need more drivers and would consume more fuel and that will cost more. So to have smaller buses and provide the same capacity of service would cost more than it does now.
Just about every town on the planet has paid parking, what makes Guernsey’s town workers such a special case ? Why do I as a taxpayer, who doesn’t work and park in town, have to provide them a free parking space ? If paid parking is such a terrible thing how and why did we ever allow it to be introduced at the airport and the harbour ?? Why are none of the politicians opposed to paying for a parking space introducing measures to abolish parking charges at the airport, or charging for port parking permits ?
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Martyn
Not bad thinking. However these clocks would be a currency for criminals. Car windows would be smashed on a regular basis and junkies would simply trade the clocks off for fixes!
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Rett
As a stealth tax, paid parking at the Airport works very well.
As a means of getting people to leave their car at home,it has failed miserably.
Have you ever seen the Airport car park empty ? I believe there is even a sign pointing to an overspill area.
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