FLIGHTS could be disrupted from Sunday after the airport firefighters’ pay talks have again stalled.
They had been in discussion with the Public Sector Remuneration Committee and the Public Services Department to discuss on-call pay.
A deal was signed in February following airport disruption, but it runs out at midnight tomorrow.
Firefighters shared out £24,000 from the deal, which ensured they would provide cover for the airport and they would agree to talks with an independent party as arbitrator.
However, a spokesman for the Airport firefighters has said they do not recognise that deal as it was not signed by Unite officer Ron Le Cras.
They feel there is no need for them to go to arbitration.
‘We have done nothing wrong,’ he said.
‘We don’t want it to go to a third party. If the talks were just between the Public Services Department and Unite, we could have resolved this issue. PSRC are causing the problems, without a doubt. They won’t play ball.’
The spokesman said that the PSRC would not have given them money in February unless they felt they deserved it for the on-call duties they performed.
‘We received the money and divided it up between us and we ensured there were two people on call at all times, regardless of whether it was their day off. Why pay us the sweeteners if they don’t think we deserve the pay?’
He said if another cash sum were offered they would not accept it.
‘Enough is enough. We accepted the previous payment believing it would allow time to form a resolution. Now there are only days left. We want to put an end to it.’
He believes they deserve to get paid for the work they do.
‘Normal workers get weekends off,’ he said.
‘I just want to sit down to a meal with my family without facing going into work. We are entitled to our time off.’
The spokesman blamed the breakdown of talks on the PSRC’s refusal to compromise.
Chairman of the Public Sector Remuneration Committee Deputy Al Brouard regretted that the issues with the firefighters had not been resolved.
‘I’m extremely disappointed,’ he said.
‘They have not abided by agreement that they would go to binding arbitration.’
He said that airport disruption is now a real possibility.
‘The threat of industrial action is not helpful and any grievances or points the union wish to make should be done through the procedure they signed up to in February.’
He said that from midnight on Sunday there was only the goodwill of fire-fighters that will keep them on call.
nÊGuernsey Airport has issued a warning that there is an increased risk of flight disruption on Sunday. An information line has been set up and will be updated with information on any disruption from 6am on Sunday. The number is 234957. Passengers should contact their airline directly for specific information on delayed flights.
Article posted on 8th May, 2009 - 2.30pm
55 Article Comments
I’m sorry, but this is just getting silly now.
Independent, binding arbitration is the only way forward.
Both sides need to start acting like adults.
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I guess these are the same States Members who will want our vote and the same firefighters who want respect for the worthwhile job they do. They’ll get none from me and I probably speak for most of the island. Incompetance and mercenary are words that spring to mind, both parties have now shown their true colours.
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I have some sympathy with the firefighters but if this report is accurate then it is ridiculous. If they accepted the money, they need to abide by the terms of the agreement that requires them to go to arbitration.
You cannot take the benefit of the agreement and then claim that the other obligations are not binding because the union man did not sign it. The firefighters have accepted the agreement by taking the money.
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The little sympathy I had for the firefighters is rapidly evaporating.
Whether or not the agreement was signed the firefighters have accepted it via their actions in the sharing out of the £24k. If they do not perform their obligations under the agreement (i.e. agree to arbitration) they should be forced to repay the monies paid to them.
If the deal was not signed by Ron Le Cras, who signed it and in what capacity?
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Quite right, this is pathetic.
PSRC and Unite ought to have some consideration for the real losers in this i.e. the travelling public. Both parties (the civil service and the firefighters) are paid from the public purse so it’s about time they thought about their responsibility towards the hand that feeds them.
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The agreement signed by both parties in February is ambiguous in relation to the use of arbitration, it does not mention which scheme or rules shall be used and as such is not enforcable no matter who signed the agreement. If you want to bind a party to arbitration it is essential to stipulate the basics. If arbitration is the route they take, the parties could spend the next six months arguing which rules and scheme will be used, i.e. small claims scheme, documents only, tribunal, single appointed arbitrator etc.
this dispute will take months to resolve through the arbitration route and is not the most economical approach for the Guernsey tax payer.
The parties have been facilitating a negotiation through Industrial tribunal, perhaps they would be better off trying mediation as a last ditch attempt to taking a further step towards resolving this dispute. it will benefit the tax payer to resolve this quickly!!!!
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AS IF…….
2 things
1)i thought that had been sorted.
2) Did i not read that the island has many many many people looking for work
TRAIN SOME MORE
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What about us “simple tourists”. Do we need to find another holliday destination?????
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Note to self: don’t check local news when you’re in a hotel expecting to fly in to Guernsey the next day. I’m with the others – if they weren’t happy with the terms of the deal, they shouldn’t have taken the £24k.
And of course they feel there is no need for arbitration – it’s in there interests to string this thing out for as long as possible to build public pressure on the States to sort it out. Sadly, we need the airport firefighters more than they need us.
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The firemen are going to continue to work to their contracts and their allocated shifts. What they can legitimately refuse to do is work over and above their contracted hours. No one can be forced to work overtime. They have already stated they would always cover medical emergency flights. The PSRC have had a year to sort this mess out but have shirked their duties.
I notice this website has not been updated since 5pm last night – obviously the GP do not feel the need to work on their days off. How many other people on this site are enjoying the festivities……how would they feel if they suddenly got a phone call to go into work – and it happened on a weekly basis???? Money is not everything – the firemen are entitled to their days off like the rest of us.
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Whichever way you dress this up the fact of the matter is that the airport firemen and/or their union appear to have reneged on a deal that they signed up to. The argument that it is somehow not a proper dispute and that everyone’s entitled to work overtime are simply red herrings or feeble excuses for their disgraceful attitude.
If, in retrospect, they’re not happy with the agreement that one of their representatives put his name to (will that man stand up?) they should do the decent thing and hand back the 24k here and now. Better still, they should keep the cash and follow the arbitration process that they promised – yes, promised – to abide by.
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This thread contains many posts that are ill informed. The media have portrayed this poorly and I’m not sure why.
Merlin’s last post contains the facts.
Our airport firefighters have been badly treated and this situation poorly managed.
To the person that suggested we just train some more; let’s just hope they can train them to be committed as well because faced with a burning plane some commitment may be required.
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Merlin, with the greatest respect you have to let this go. The support for the part timers is starting to look a little silly. As Martyn points out their is a signed agreement that i nthe event of the talks failing they go to arbitration. We don’t always agree with each other, in fact rarely, but to bang the same drum for a bunch of people who appear to be welching on a signed and agreed deal is looking daft.
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Martyn
Says “airport firemen and/or their union appear to have reneged on a deal that they signed up to”
If this is so why did the deputy indusrial relations office refuse to register a dspute and say it was for management to sort out?
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Stephen John’s post on another thread about the firemen’s dispute:
http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2009/05/05/airport-disruption-threat/#comment-45193
states that the problem is not something that can be solved by an arbitrator and in fact the industrial disputes officer has said so!
It is all very confusing but perhaps the media will investigate the true background to the problems. Perhaps originally everyone that signed up to binding arbitration believed it could be sorted by them – but have now realised that it cannot. The PSRC are the supposed experts and they should have realised this problem months ago .
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Stephen, your question is a red herring and totally irrelevant. They signed up to arbitration and took the money and now they’re going back on a fair and binding agreement that was signed not just by one of their representatives but in triplicate. They haven’t got the leg of a fireman’s ladder to stand on! Why can’t you see that???
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Firstly, a lot of people seem to be up in arms about the Airport Firemen reneging on the deal to go to arbitration. No one seemed to give a s**t when the States reneged on their deal that, whoever the Burchill report favoured, the ‘opposition’ had to accept it and go with it. Soon as it came out in favour of the Firefighters and recommended disbanding the PSRC as they are counter productive to negotiations the States didn’t want to know and wouldn’t acknowledge it. I know that some of the Deputies involved hadn’t even read it.
JACKIE: I think you are the one who needs to let it go. All this bitterness is not good for you and you are just making yourself look foolish spouting all this rubbish based on misinformation and ‘facts’ you seem to have dreamt up in your sleep. I know you would dearly love to get the whole of Guernsey to join your “Lets Hate Firefighters and spit on them in the Street” gang, but some people can see the whole picture and make a balanced opinion.
Before everybody gets to involved and makes their minds up about how evil the AFS are for wanting to have some days off they should wait. There are some things which I am hoping will be made public soon that may open peoples eyes a bit as to the underhanded way some of our States members operate to try and get the results they want. Just look at the Wheelchair report for example. Some people may still dislike us but they may at least understand some of the reasons behind certain decisions that have been made (except Jackie of course)!
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While on the subject of airport firemen, we must ensure that they are well enough trained not to trash another £300,000 vehicle. That amount of money would have gone a long way towards settling any pay dispute.
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Martyn
The question is not a red herring.
As Merlin says in a later post to yours there is an issue to be invesgtigated as to why the PRSC and its negotiators were talking of arbitration three moths ago.
Now the people who have the legal duty register a dispute before it can go to arbitration have said its a mangement issue.
Outcome : however many might have signed the agreement, it matters not ifthe Insustrial relations people at Commerce and Employement feel that registering a dispute and going to arbitration, is not appropriate.
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You still don’t get it Stephen. It is very much a whopper of a red herring because there is nothing, absolutely nothing, within Guernsey’s industrial laws and procedures to prevent this dispute going towards the next stage of the process, which is arbitration.
The clear, simple fact is that the firemen and their reps signed a binding agreement to allow the arbitration process to get under way. The attempt to back away from this agreed deal now, when the dispute has reached an obvious impasse, is outrageous. If they didn’t like the deal they shouldn’t have signed it and they shouldn’t have taken the extra money.
The PSRC have upheld their end of the bargain and the ball is not now in their court. It is now up to the firemen to uphold their word by not standing in the way of the arbitration process that must precede an actual arbitration hearing. Let the process begin!
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Martyn
You claim there is nothing to stop this dispute etc.etc
Problem is the States own industrial relations department have said there is no dispute. If there is no dispute how can you take it to arbitration.
True both sides were wrong to agree to arbitration. I bet it was the PRSC who wanted to go there. The officers are well paid civil servants who should have known there was no dispute that could go to arbitration.
Significantly not one of the lets go to arbitration brigade have not explained the question why did the Industrial relations department refuse to register a dispute.
A dispute and attempts by the professional staff of C and E, is a required pre requisite before arbitration.
The real red herring is the so called but deely flawed agreement of 3 months ago.
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It’s as simple as this. Making the dispute ‘official’ is all part of the arbitration process that the firemen agreed to. They are the ones standing in the way of making it official because they are trying to avoid their obligations under the the agreement that they signed up to. The junior civil servant’s throwaway comment must be seen as just that. In the context of the whole picture, which is framed by Guernsey’s industrial relations laws, it is irrelevant and misleading. If this isn’t an industrial dispute I don’t know what is!
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PS As I understand it nobody refused to ‘register’ a dispute!
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Refusal to register a dispute
Reported on page 1 of last weekls Weekly Press.
Says Michelle tffin, deputy Industrial Relations Officer had refused to register a disoute saying it was amatter for mangement.
Nothing out of the usual in this when one party wants to go to arbitration and the other doesn’t.
Problem for PRSC is thaat firefighters are not breaching their contract.
Those who are clearly disturbed by the disagreement, should ask why the airport management and PRSC (and old CSB) had allowed the fragile cover situation, that relies on goodwill only, to exist for so many years.
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Martyn
Just noticed your gratioutously insulting comment: “The junior civil servant’s throwaway comment must be seen as just that”
Have the decency to withdraw the remark. It defames a public servant who is just doing her job.
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Martyn
you obviously don’t understand Guernsey Law when it comes to the definition of a dispute.
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Frankly who cares about the semantics!
The fact is that the “dispute” is making both sides look very stupid. Very stupid indeed.
The airport needs to remain open – therefore someone (the States?) needs to tackle this head on give someone, wherever it is due, a good talking to.
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Nobby
Martyn is not alone.
It is clear from the agreement signed a few months ago that the PSRC also doesn’t understand Guernsey law re disputes.
They weren’t trying to pull a fast one, were they???
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While I accept my understanding of Guernsey’s industrial disputes law is limited, my understanding of plain English is not.
Gilthead is right about the semantics. To all intents and purposes this is a full blown ‘pay dispute’. Deputy Al Brouard said as much on Radio Guernsey this morning. Compare his straight talking to the union speak gobbledygook coming from the mouths of Ron Le Cras and his merry men.
Just imagine the scene at their last meeting when they discussed the arbitration agreement that they signed: “I move brothers that under composite 3b of the shop stewards council (AFS division) rules of engagement that the aforesaid document is declared invalid under section 6f (paragraph 4) of the……………”
Oh, and Stephen, you’re very easily offended and you obviously don’t know the meaning of the word defamatory. My comment about a ‘throwaway comment’ was just that. A throwaway comment. Live with it!
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Ok, I’m back. I listened intently to the Radio interview last night and have concluded that RLC is on the run. He contradicted himself a number of times and it was clear to me that they have just invented the ‘managment issue’ to avoid arbitration. Whilst denying that the dispute had anything to do with pay he then went on to talk about money. Add to this that the obviosu AFS contributors only bleat about Pay and Conditions it’s clear that Union is gaming the system, the people of Guernsey and playing politics. It’s even clearer that he is playing the politics card in the hope to get PSRC dissolved or hung out to dry – any deputies should be reading that point and taking very clear note of not allowing AB to be hung out to dry.
To add weight to the argument, even the AFS contributors here whine about Pay including their apologist friends. It’s a Pay/money issue – no doubt.
One thing I did learn an surprised me is that the AFS do not get on call payments. Assuming Ron isn’t lying that doesn’t seem particularly fair as other services do.
As for Ron’s little helpers on the Radio yesterday. The way one of the AFS staff spoke about his colleagues as though they were dirt for not being as youthful as him or coming into the service under a sllightly lowered bar it would seem we he shone a light on the culture of those embedded there. Imagine having to deal with ensconced work ‘colleagues’ who have that attitude to yo uas a new recruit? Are you sure it’s jsut a managment issue and that part of the problem is the soap opera of having to work with an arrogant colleague who won’t accept you from the get go?
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Martyn
My concern was with your insulting comment and unecessary personal about an identifiable civil servant who cannot answer back.
Jackie
It was the C and E’s professional staff who said it was a management matter. It is wrong to say that the union “have just invented the ‘managment issue’ to avoid arbitration”.
if Mr Le Cras mentioned management maatter he is merely repeating the decision by a well experienced officer (in and outside of Guernsey) in industrial relations matters.
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“It was the C and E’s professional staff”
Union men and women no doubt.
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Jackie
It is very unlikely the C and E professional IR staff are union members.
If they were union members is it possible that they would take even greater care to be objective?
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May i pose a question to this forum,why does it appear that the Firefighters themselves are getting all the flack?
It seems to me that they along with management are trying to resolve a long running issue that revolves around an intial problem of recruitment and subsequently more so now retention.Effectively why as an employer are the States prepared to spend more and more money on propping up a system that is effectively worn out.From recent reports it seems that this was brought to the attention of the Airport management and with their full support a review of the working practices of the various departments was instigated,with the conclusion of this report a framework of change could be implemented.In the interim period the under staffed Fire Service would get a temporary payment to go above and beyond there contracted hours.
Why then as reported did the PSRC not act on any of the reports findings and subsequently not assure the Airport to continue to opperate smoothly in February? Yet again wasting more money in lose of revenue and claims from airlines etc.
So what i can only see as incompetence the PSRC register a dispute against the Fire Fighters(which was declined).The Fire Fighters only recognised a problem and asked for it to be addressed as it was becoming more and more difficult to provide cover.This as i see is why an extention to the temporary payment was offered yet again whilst the process of “negotiations”took place.
Yet again 3 Months later nothing has been resolved and the PSRC register a dispute against the Fire Fighters and Union.Why the dispute with the Fire Fighters?Surely they are only employees who have raised a concern with line management.As been reported the Employee/Employer relationship is good,so why can,t the Airport management resolve this?
I think the whole process of having one department (PSRC)oversee all claims,for all States Depts,not just the airport, rather antiquated.Why not look at each Department as seperate entities?
Lets look at future proofing the Airport Fire Service and saving money in the long run and stop wasting it on quick fixes in the short term.
Do the PSRC effectively want to automatically go to a third party because they are incapable of making a decision they can stand by or are they afraid of setting a precedence for other Departments?It does appear this is the case and through bullying tactics are trying to slur the Firefighters consant goodwill and professionalism in trying to get what isn,t a difficult decision resolved.
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Katie makes some good points.
The firefighters are, as Katie says, getting all the flack; because of the better PR work by the PSRC and the emotive reaction to the uncertainty of a stoppage of flights at the airport.
The point made by Katie that the PRSC want to pass on the problem because they are incapable of resolving it, rings true.
The incapablilty of resolving the problem does not lie in the problem itself but in the inability of the PSRC and its negotiators to do their job.
Thus far they, and the media, have managed to use the fear of a stoppage of flights to detract attention from the real issues.
10 out of 10 for PR, but 1 out of 10 for IR.
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Stephen. Negotiation is a two way street. You don’t appear stupid but your apparent ignorance of how negotiations work are not open always ended, often within frameworks of prescribed policies and the possiblity that they can come to an impasse does make me wonder.
By any measure the negotiations have failed by May 9th. Both parties need to go to arbitration. If after that PSRC are seen as dereleict, hang them then.
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Jackie
What on earth does “… but your apparent ignorance of how negotiations work are not open always ended” mean?
I can justaa bout manage to woork out what “but your apparent ignorance of how negotiations work” means but the rest???
I can just about manage to understand that negotiations sometimes stall.
Problem seems to be that you feel that the impasse has come about for one reason, and I believe for another reason.
Difference betwen us is that I wouldn’t even consider calling you either ignorant nor stupid for setting out your alternative view.
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Jackie.Yes you are right,indeed negotiation is a two way street,but taking interest of the ongoing debacle it seems to me that the Fire Fighters are trying to adhere to a process that at its core is implemented and over seen by various professional States bodies.Their hands appear to be tied.They themselves are trying to raise very valid concerns with their Management that there are issues that need addressing and that if every avenue has been explored by Airport Management then perhaps a monetary raise would help to recruit and subsequently retain quality concientious staff.
Fortunately for the States but not so for the person at risk of displacement we are in the beginning of a recession,so it is pretty apparent that at this given time recruitment shouldn,t be to much of an issue.In saying that the only reason other than retirement you need to recruit is that you need to retain the professional standard of staff that already exsist and not dilute with a consistant turnover of staff.
Please don,t forget that this issue has been ongoing for a few years but only came to public knowledge when fire cover was compromised due to a lack of staff.Another point I was unaware of until recently is that the Fire Fighters do not recieve a payment or a bleeper to be on call and that not one individual is responsible to make themselves available,but that over the years and as I assume still are,covering overtime.
Isn,t it about time we supported the lads at the Fire Service,they are the only Airport Fire Service and at times it must feel like a thankless task.
Regardless of whether or not the PSRC or the general public think the Fire Fighters contribute much whilst stationed at the airport is immaterial.They have to be there.It is about time the States stop burying their faces in the sand and step out side the box, that seems to me, to be stubbornly icable of moving into the next Millenium.
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Jackie; with the way PSRC operate, it was obvious the negotiations had failed 9 months ago. Most public sector staff groups have found themselves in this position lately due to the unwillingness/inability of PSRC to actually engage in meaningful negotiations. The “dispute” can only go to arbitration if it is a dispute as defined under Guernsey law. According to Guernsey law there is no dispute. Whilst the law may be deficient in this area, the law is what the parties have to abide by.
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You know I often think that the general public have no idea what is going on.
If there is a strike, then in many cases the those involved (the workers) are subjected to abuse from many quarters ; but in actual fact it’s the big boys who are the demons.
They tell the men to hold out we’ll win: they tell the responsible ones (the States) we’re doing our best to get them to agree.
The cost will be more than the amount they asked for in the long run; and many enemies will be made:
I do not think their demands are unreasonable, when one considers the Job.
And please don’t come with (They’re sitting down most of the time) what do you want them to do: go out and either polish the planes or the boss’s car?
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Lets look at Ron Le Cras for a moment.
Which 2 bodies does he represent and which are the only two bodies which hadn’t settled?
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Oh good. Jackies back again. Perhaps I can get an effective cream or lotion to prevent a recurrence.
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Lets face it some people will never support the States worker, they in their eyes are always in the wrong. The Airport Firemen are doing nothing that they are not entitled to do. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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I listened again to Le Cra and his merry men on Radio Guernsey and I had to laugh.
One of the ‘firemen’ was whining about how his life had changed since he took the job, referrign to overtime and call outs. In the next sentence he stated that he had applied 4 times for the job.
So that’s 4 times he read the job description, 4 times he was told there would be shift work, 4 times he was told their would a requirement for overtime and 4 times he forgot.
Laughable
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If money really isn’t the problem, why did the problem disappear when they were given more money ?
If going to arbitration was never going to provide a way out for the firefighters perhaps they could have said so before we gave them £24k, not after ?
The problem seems to me that the firefighters are unwilling to carry on providing cover for sick colleagues. If no one ever went sick, there would be no problem. So in effect the firefighters are demanding that we employ extra unnecesary staff just in case someone does go off sick. The only way it would make sense is if there were constantly staff off sick – and if that is the case then someone should seriously investigate the health and working conditions of our firefighters….
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Jackie
You may not be aware of this buy Ron is also a representative of some nurses and care staff who work for the health service. They settled for a 3 year agreement i think so he is not incapable of negotiating.
I think that the politicians are burying their heads in the sand and hoping that the recession in the UK will bail them out and that people in Guernsey will be glad of a job and therefore not ask for pay and conditions to be looked at. They could not be further from the truth!
There are still plenty of jobs out there and if companies now have to start paying for licence applications then they will be even keener to employ local staff. I agree with Katie; we need an airport fire service and just because they are not dealing with airline catastrophes does not mean they should be paid a pittance. If a sewage cart driver can earn more surely that says something about their pay (this was mentioned on the radio interview). If they start bringing in firemen from other jurisdictions it is going to cost them far more – but our politicians seem incapable of looking at this objectively anymore.
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JACKIE: In defence of the fireman you say was ‘whining’ about how his life had changed since he took the job (no it wasn’t me on the radio). He was merely stating how due to his changing circumstances (married and two children) he could not be expected to drop everything and come in and do overtime and neither does he want to now. Yes he applied four times and yes he read the job description four times. I might have mentioned this once or twice before but the job description mentions NOTHING ABOUT COMPULSORY OVERTIME…I repeat…NOTHING ABOUT COMPULSORY OVERTIME. Did you read that bit Jackie NOTHING yes NOTHING ABOUT COMPULSORY OVERTIME. There was not even the mention of voluntary overtime or that we would be required to do some overtime.
Maybe you should get together with Katie and she can educate you on how to form opinions based on facts as you are obviously having trouble retaining the information or is it selective memory loss just so you can continue your vendetta against the AFS.
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TOBY: The problem did not disappear when we were given money, it was tolerated temporarily in the hope of a resolution to this ongoing matter.
Firefighters are not unwilling to provide cover for sick colleagues they are fed up with constantly providing cover due to shortages of staff. Yes sometimes cover is required for sickness but this has never been an issue until recruitment and retention problems started to arise. For the record we are still providing cover by way of overtime hence the reason the Airport has been running smoothly since the agreement ran out. Yet more undeserved goodwill being shown by the Firefighters.
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“If money really isn’t the problem, why did the problem disappear when they were given more money ?”
Because money’s the problem. One minute its about family, next minute a few extra quid and there goes the family principals and work-life balance argument.
Caught out again :)
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My take on this Molly is that the nurses achieved their agreement despite Ron Le Cras’ involvement and not because of it.
And SM do try to calm down a little. Just because someone is critical of your weak looking case does not make it a vendetta. Unless, of course, Jackie is involved in some sort of blood feud with someone up at the airport fire station!!?@!
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this problem, not dispute is rather simple to resolve. arbitration is not the answer.
the airport wants certainty that the AFS will provide enough cover so the airport can function at all times.
the AFS want either a) compensation for covering a shortage of resource or b) some agreed minimum level of recources employed at any one time.
regardless of the basics, i.e. how to employ and maintain the levels or what sort of compensation, this whole problem can be easily resolved if you find the answer to;
a) what is the minimum resource to be employed at all times to provide the required cover, and
b) what financial package will be provided the the firemen during times when the minimum level of resource is not provided by the ‘management issues’.
its that simple.
all its going to take now is the first sick note and the airport issues are going to errupt. why on earth does everyone think an arbitrator is going to resolve this, talk about a buzz word and following trends.
i took a ride home in a taxi this evening and simply asked the taxi driver how he thought the problem should be resolved. his answer arbitration, when i asked why he could not answer and gave a poor response saying ‘the arbitrator will tell them what to do..’
i asked him what would happen if his boss told him to do shift work he did not want to do, his response was he would give up his job and work elsewhere.
an arbitrator will not resolve the structure of this problem, he will only make an award that one or both parties are not going to be hapy with. if the states are not happy they will just have to accept it, but if the afs are not happy with the award then employment changes are going to be repeated.
why cant the powers that be see this very simple fact.
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Jackie your back!!! I was going to miss all your opinions when you wrote that you were going to leave this subject. I refer to your comment on (15/5/09) ref Ron (Le Cra) Hood and his merry men. All though I do not agree with everthing that you say on this subject and every other subject that you comment on in this beautiful island of ours. I also listened to the radio and i must say that i believe you’re right he did sound arrogant. However, I do believe that he is leaving soon for pastures new so at least the firefighters will not have to put up with him, although in his defence, like you and I, he is entitled to his opinion, and from what I have been told he was merely stating that he has one weekend off in every six and now he is married with two children he is entitled to spend some quality time with his family. It is not the firefighters fault that there is/was a shortage of staff at the airport and that they were covering a lot of shifts through overtime. The only thing though Jackie, if/when he does go will that help the retention and then possibly the recruitment problem that they so obviously have up at the airport fire station. Laughable indeed!
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Red: a sensible and logical answer to some of the problems experienced by the airport firemen.
It astounds me at the stupidity of the public who still think that the AFS are obliged to work overtime to cover shortfalls caused by training absences, annual holidays and sickness. They are not and if the PSRC do not recognise that more staff are needed or an official on-call system then the status quo is going to remain = with the distinct possibility that soon a shift is going to be short of staff which will result in the inability of the AFS to cover for certain category of aircraft.
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JACKIE: “…One minute its about family, next minute a few extra quid and there goes the family principals and work-life balance argument.
Caught out again :)….”
Nothing to be caught out on Jackie. Just doing our bit to try and resolve this issue and keep the aircraft flying by agreeing to temporary cover.
We really can’t win with you can we? If we hadn’t done the temporary agreement you would have been slating us for letting the airport category drop and not doing overtime. We do the overtime and you slate us for having no family principals. What is the point.
In response to one of your previous posts ref: on call pay, no Ron wasn’t lying, we have never been paid to be on call for overtime (except for the temporary agreement obviously).
MARTYN: You must be looking at another case to me. Nothing weak in ours. Twice now the Industrial Disputes have said there is no official dispute (second report on 15th May)and they also mention that the PSRC haven’t really been seen to be trying to negotiate and they need to talk with us again. Perhaps as you seem so in the know about the PSRC and procedures why did they wait until 26th January to meet with us and start ‘negotiating’ (I use that word in the loosest possible way).
As for calming down, maybe you are right and maybe ‘vendetta’ wasn’t entirely accurate, but when people keep making opinions on incorrect facts time and time again it can get a bit frustrating, especially when they constantly slate you based on those inaccuracies.
Anyway I am off to meditate now, maybe that will help calm me down followed by a nice cup of horlicks!
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Martyn.
It has become rather apparent to me that you appear to know alot more about the inner workings of Goverment, and that you come across as a bit of a Stalwart towards Arbitration!
Have I read this/heard this very same immovable stance before?
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