The gate of the airport fire station was locked last evening as the firefighter pay dispute turned into an all-out strike. (Picture by Adrian Miller, 0779072)
FLYING at the airport has been suspended after the firefighter dispute escalated to a full strike yesterday.
Hundreds of people saw their travel plans disrupted and many were left looking for somewhere to stay for the night after fire crews walked out shortly after 5pm. The last flight was cancelled shortly before 8pm and the matter has now been referred to the industrial disputes officer.
Many turned up this morning unaware that no flights would be operating.
Airport management said all fire cover had been withdrawn after talks broke down during yesterday afternoon. It said the situation was very much regretted but was beyond its control.
With the airport looking likely to be closed all day today, the only flight to move this morning was Blue Islands’ 7.45 departure to Southampton.
Passengers were people requiring essential medical treatment in the UK and firefighters agreed to give it dispensation.
Shani Barrasin was travelling with her nine-year-old daughter, Stephanie Ballay, who has leukaemia. Stephanie is six months into a two-year programme of treatment at Southampton General Hospital and her mother said it was imperative that she got her treatment at the right time.
‘Dealing with illness is a very stressful time for all medical patients and their loved ones and travelling problems only make it worse,’ she said.
‘We rely on flights and we have to accept inclement weather.’
Miss Barrasin said she and her daughter had been due to travel with Flybe at 4.10pm yesterday.
‘When we became aware of the problems I changed our ticket to this morning’s red-eye but when we got here this morning and I found out what was going on, I quickly changed to Blue Islands. I am so grateful to Blue Islands and Simon McPhail (deputy airport director) for accommodating us on this flight. Stephanie is booked to have chemotherapy in Guernsey tomorrow, but if we don’t get back Southampton will pick it up. We are going and I don’t know when we will be back.’
Yesterday, 15 Flybe flights were cancelled as had been expected as fire cover fell below the minimum for the category-six Dash 8 Q400 aircraft after 1pm. Many passengers bought tickets with Aurigny and Blue Islands only to find their aircraft were also grounded from 5pm.
Passengers were told over the public address system that firefighters had withdrawn cover and that talks with an industrial disputes officer were ongoing.
The gate of the airport fire station was locked with a padlock and chain.
A firefighter who unlocked it to let a van out said the gate was locked ‘to keep intruders out’ but said no more.
The only flight to move after 5pm was an Aurigny service to Alderney that took off at about 7.45pm. Firefighters gave dispensation because a child with a medical condition was on it.
Some passengers were angry that flight cancellations were displayed on the electronic boards before public address system announcements were made.
Blue Islands announced it was cancelling its last Southampton flight at about 7.30pm and Aurigny did likewise with its Manchester and Gatwick services about 20 minutes later.
Some passengers shed tears and many were on their mobile telephones adjusting their plans.
Aurigny passengers who had been waiting in departures came back to the main hall to join others who were queuing in an effort to get rebooked.
Dozens of people returning to Guernsey were also stranded at UK airports.
An Aurigny flight from Stansted spent 45 minutes circling overhead before being diverted to Jersey for refuelling at about 7pm.
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Comment Page 20
Article posted on 26th May, 2009 - 2.31pm
236 Article Comments
Unbelievable !!
I used to be married to an airport firefighter-actually that is a bit of a misnoma as the only fire they ever fight is when the bbq gets a bit oiut of control.
What most people don’t realise is they all earn a good 5 figure sum and yet most have second jobs paying just as well,if not more.
My ex husband used to spend most of his time in the gym or washing my car-it’s never been so clean since !
The States are pathetic for not sorting this out once and for all,but the ‘firefighters’ are even more pathetic for having tactical sickness and now all-out strikes.
Sack them all.
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And don’t forget the last emergency they went out to was when they turned over one of their own trucks. 300k that cost us!
No doubt that was PSRCs fault as well. LOL
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So are the CM and Policy Council going to show leadership and get involved in sorting this out?
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I am with the firefighters – the States have had long enough to sort this out!
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I don’t think 34k a year is that bad..
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What an absolute disgrace!
They are an embarassment to this island, I hope the states don’t back down on this and sack the lot of them. There are plenty of people in England who would be more than willing to come over here to do this ‘work’.
Ron Le Cras, take a good long look at yourself I blame you as much as I blame the ‘firemen’.
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the states of guernsey need to sort it out as my mother an sister in law was comin today as my mother in law is diein an its her last wish to see her grandchildren and she could not get here this morning. they can not fly now till thursday and its not fair on poeple and there thier family.
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Sack them all – and that includes the useless States members that have not resolved the problem after months of supposed negotiations!
The taxpayer is paying wages for all these people, we have a right to expect value for money, not an incompetent service from both the States and the firefighters.
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When exactly is this meant to be going on for? I am supposed to be travelling on Friday and we have conecting flights from Gatwick. What a nightmare.
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they earn good money to say they are not working every day of the week. what is it 3 on 4 off!! I would love it if my place of work paid me for working like that.
Come on both sides!!
Our Airport should never EVER be closed like this. totally obscene!!
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An absolute farce in this day and age.
The damage the Island is getting will now take years to mend.
How can a States owned Airline leave residents stranded in Gatwick without helping them out, when the problem lies with the States run Firefighters not getting the basic cover they need.
We are being held hostage by an undemocratic Goverment and you should be ashamed of yourselves to represent this Island.
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Join the fire brigade…..
Must be physically fit and pass regular fitness tests.
Must have HGV driving license
Must have extensive first aid training
May have one weekend off every 6 weeks if not require to cover shortages.
Will enjoy working all Bank Holidays
Must be expected to cover other shifts at all times and sometimes you will get 1 whole hours notice.
Must be on call out 24/7 for medical emergencies.
Will enjoy 5.30am starts and 9pm finishes.
Must be happy to stay until the last flight has come in even if it is 11pm.
Will enjoy spending time away from your family.
Will be sent away for a 6 week training course in the North of England.
Will be happy to take a second job to make ends meet.
Starting pay is £275 a week, but that increases to £347 a week when you start shift work.
No payrises will be given but if you stay there long enough you might get a pension.
Must be able to grow a thick skin.
There are lots of vacancies available as the current firefighters are all about to resign.
Apply to the States of Guernsey today……..
Your Island Needs You
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Im asking myself the same question worried Guern, i’m also flying on Friday to Gatwick.. does anybody know how long this will last for?
This is so shockingly bad i cannot believe it wasnt sorted out months ago when my flight got cancelled in FEBRUARY! Now its June in a week and STILL so called “firefighters” pulling sickies just to prove a point. I’m not from Guernsey but have lived her a few years and have never seen or heard anything like this, Cant wait to leave is all i can say (When they let us!)
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This strike will not do what the firemen want. I would hope that PSRC will not be swayed by this action as this will cause other such groups to behave similarly in the future.
I have a few queries and points.
I have had experience with an industrial tribunal and PSRC. The tribunal will only review the ‘actual dispute’ in question. So other important issues surrounding the case will not be tackled. However they are public so we can finally get some extra information.
The airlines also do not need to rebook passengers if flights are cancelled due to industrial action. Neither do insurance companies cover the cost of new flights.
Therefore all those affected passengers are going to be hit twice or a third time (if you include hotels) if this action continues.
The airlines don’t have any overheads (fuel costs etc) so if they do not refund the tickets, then they are laughing all the way tothe bank. I would hope the airlines see fairness.
Condor ferries has had the ultimate lost chance of earning extra by putting on more ferries. However without fore-warning that is not possible. To make matters worse ‘Condor 10′ has technical problems.
I am sorry, the firemens actions have lost the support of many people. This dispute is the hot topic around the island and from what I am being told. Those who were tettering in support of the firemen have toppled over in support of PSRC.
If the firemen are all locals and not here on licences, then shame on you for destroying the credability of this island. You should have known better. If you are here on a licence, and you don’t like your 34K PA job, and you don’t like you gym, and you don’t like your pool table, and your bored because nothing happens, and you don’t like you second job. Then leave!!
Privatise the airport fireservice and be done with this debacle or at least combine it withthe main fireserve and they can see some real work.
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Whilst I am not defending strike action – we have to be a bit reasonable here…
I know a couple of airport firemen & they have not been out for a drink in over 8 months as they have had to be on permenent standby cover for 24 hours a day… as well as their full time shift…
Whoever quoted £34k per year is wrong… the basic is less then £25k & the only way up is to do ridiculous amounts of overtime – overtime they are forced to do…
If someone said to you that you had to spend an extra 20 hours a week at work & you couldnt rwelax & enjoy yourself when your shift had finished – you would be a bit niggled… Do this for 8-9 months & you would be ready to walk out…
This whole problem is at the door of the States of Guernsey – I have said it before & will say it again – The States of Guernsey are the biggest joke ever… this is with no shadow of doubt, the worst States we have EVER had…
Having said that, I dont think the firemen should have the power to shut the airport down & ruin plans for so many…
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The airlines are just as bad. Blue island are refusing to refund money on the cancelled flights – they just rebook you on the next one, which is then cancelled as well! What a shower!
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sack the lot of them. and the states should stop
paying them wages while they are not at work.
The public businesses should stop supplying food,petrol etc to all airport firemen and their
families like it happended to the dockers many years ago.
Also in any new contracts of employment, or amend it, so that it is illegal for them to withdraw
their labour, as is the case for the police force
etc
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@Melc
£34k for sitting around on standby incase there’s a problem?? Hell…I’ll have some of that!!
Seriously though, this is a ridiculous situation that has got well out of hand and should have been sorted out immediately. The States should “Grow A Set”, sack the lot of them if they don’t want to work and employ people that do. There are plenty of very capable people out there at the moment who are unfortunately unemployed and these well paid numpties are striking over a few quid…at least you have jobs people – there are lots at the moment who don’t, think yourselves lucky and get on with your job!!
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Industrial action for all essential public services should not be permitted under any circumstances – whether firefighters, amulance or police. In the UK the police are not permitted to strike – it should be the same here for all essential services. This doesn’t however excuse the States for not sorting this debacle out months ago.
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SACK THEM ALL!!! We have lots of people here in England being made redundant – me included. I have had to take a job on less money just to make ends meet, like lots of other people have.
The firefighters are not living in the real world. There are tons of people over here who would be grateful for work at the firefighters’ salaries or less. The States could have recruited new firefighters in the time that this debacle has been going on.
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its laughable how many people are moaning about this. how would you feel if you worked phoned you up at 5am and asked you to come in to work on your day off? Would you do it?? I dont think so.
And as for all of you saying sack them, ok lets do that and shut the airport for a few weeks until we can get more staff, good idea?
For those who suggest we train the town firefighters, ok lets do that and when your house catches fire we can let it burn because the extra firefighters are at the airport.
What this boils down to is lack of staff and is that really the firefighters fault? yes they spend time in the gym, they have to maintain a minimum standard of fitness which I can tell you is very high (I have failed it).
Alternatively, the people who are moaning, why dont you apply to be an airport firefighter? you can get up early, train in a gym everyday, be ready to go out at anytime to a plane burning at several hundred degrees centigrade and rescue people, oh and when you have a day off be prepared to get up and go to work because somebody is ill.
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So the firemen are expected to continue being on call 24hrs of every day of the year, no holidays, not able to have a drink or fully relax, just because the package offered isn’t good enough to attract any new staff. Is it their fault that no one applies for the job leaving them short staffed? How many years are they expected to cover the shortage?
No one wants the job, including people from the UK. If the states want to attract new staff and retain existing staff they have to offer a job package that people want. When there are enough staff to run a proper shift system then pay can be looked at again.
This ill advised confrontational approach is only hurting the travelling public and island as a whole.
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thanks for costing me loads of money in re-booking other alternatives.
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This is an absolute disgrace.
The Firemen should be ashamed of themselves. Call themselves “Civil servants” they are only serving themselves and their pockets.
If they are unhappy, leave. Get alternative employment. There are lots of people who need jobs. Bring over the “professionals” from the UK. Firemen who work long hours, attend fires and actually save people’s lives.
SACK THEM ALL!
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Sack the lot of them , surely when they took the jobs they were aware that overtime & sickness cover would be a requirement , perhaps its getting in the way of their spare time jobs.
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I currently have a friend who has been stranded at Jersey after his inbound Aurigny flight was diverted during a medical emergency at the time of the imposition of the strike. He traveled light and has only the clothes he stands up in and his phone batteries are almost flat. He has just been informed that he will return by ship this afternoon. The Strike was no doubt been a last resort and the States should have worked harder to prevent it. In any case they almost certainly have resort to Emergency Powers and could request the UK Defence Fire Service to provide cover and sideline the despute. OK!at the cost of a deeper despute, but at least the situation will not strangle the Islands business and create refugees from its travelling business-people working hard to fill the “Black Hole”.
As a veteran fire-fighter of the UK 1977 strike and the consequences: for fire-fighters to declare themselves indispensable..then walk-out and prove that they ARE! leaves the employer with no choice to provide a permanent contingency. In support of the fire-fighters standing, please don’t match the number of incidents against the realistic training, commitment and readiness that is really essential and well worth a proportional salary.
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The states and FF are as bad as each other with this situation. Its not helping anybody with whats going on, just makes the island look very silly. I’ve noticed the increased tourism already on the island this year, but can’t see that lasting if they can’t get in and out of the island!
FF – if you don’t like your package, get another job! No one is pointing a gun to your head and telling you to do that job. If I don’t like my job because of the package and conditions I would leave!
States – you never seem to get things right do you? If it’s not this, its dumping rubbish you can’t handle or housing licences. Sounds like you need a REAL leader there!
Happy sunny days eh?
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The firefighters should honour the agreement they made to go to arbitration and not use weasel type excuses that they don’t recognise the signature to the agreement. They accepted a one off payment at the time – perhaps they’ll return it! but I doubt it
I heard Ron le Cras on the radio a couple of weeks ago and it was a pathetic argument he was using
However the States are fairly incompetent as well and should have done more
Sack the lot of them!
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You lot need to get your facts right! Sack them all you say, i say how narrow minded of you all! i know one of the firemen and his children, sack him is it, and what will happen to his wife and kids? go hungry, are you going to feed them? no! your gonna sleep tight in your beds with your nice high paid jobs! believe me they dont earn 35k a year and who ever thinks they do haha shame on you, you fools!
i say KEEP UP THE STRIKE! they deserve so much better than the states are giving them! these people do US the means you lot too, a service should they not get treated with respect?! you lot are a bunch of pathetic rude and disrespectful idiots that havent got a clue! do you honestly believe these people want to do the likes of YOU a service after what you have wrote?! ok you lot are moaning, what happens if the plane you are on, crashes? catches fire? shall they leave you there to burn JACKIE, ROLAND, AL,?!!!!!and the rest of you! well maybe you lot really need to start thinking about things when your sat on a plane the next time! its people like the firemen that save lives, what you do save? electricity? doubt it! you lot really tick me off, you just dont have a clue about real life!
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*SCOTT!!!!
i like you! u speak the truth!
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They seem determined to drive businesses and tourism from the Island do they not realise as a result airlines will reduce flights to Guernsey as passanger numbers will not make it viable
Result part time airport and part time fire cover needed
The have in a very difficult economic climate the type of job many would jump at
They say others do not want the jobs either on the Island or in the UK so why do the States not put the claim to the test and advertise the jobs and sack the current firefighters
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I hope the Guernsey born plonkers,who seem to hold the airport fire fighters in such low esteem, will tell whoever tries to drag them out of a burning shell of a crashed aircraft to “ F*** O** and look for another job!
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There is now a group on facebook in SUPPORT of the firefighters
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I am unfortunate enough to have been stranded in both the february and the current strikes. Luckily I have a place to stay but last night people were forking out large sums of money to stay in hotels. The airlines claim no responsiblity, I hope the states will be able to compensate. To be honest this makes Guernsey look totally backward and parochial, these are not times to be taking tourism for granted. The scene I saw in Southampton last night was concerning to say the least. Lastly if the airlines could be more honest about the state of play earlier, life would be a lot easier for us travellers. dont tell us there will be more information in half an hour and continue to do this for 3 hours. The airport staff had left guernsey at 5:00 last night so why the hell was I still waiting in Southampton at 8:30? Reputation is very important to the Channel Islands and from what I saw in the departures lounge last night Guernsey is doing itself absolutely NO favours.
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I can not believe the comments I am reading, all the blame is being put on the firefighters and this is so wrong, the blame is the States.
I can also say that the salary of a Airport Firefighter is not £34k and is around £21k how can somebody support a family with that income, yes possibly get a second job so you can spend even more time away from your family.
I would also like to to make a comment on some of the things I have read on this page, “All they do is sit around all day” Well how many plane crashes would you like each day. Its like paying for an insurance policy you hate having to do it but your bloody glad its there if you need it.
Sack them all, yes what a great idea and then the airport will be shut for weeks well actually months, and who will apply for these jobs as they cant recruit at the moment becuase nobody will work for that money, which is the whole problem that has caused this situation.
Give these lads a break and start blaming the states who have made this happen.
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Listening to Al Brouard on Radio G this lunchtime raises a few issues.
1 At least we know have arbitration. Going on strike means losing the high moral ground.
2 Why didn’t Al Brouard tell the presenter why there is a dispute. All he said is that the difference was too wide.
3 The comment of Al Brouard that “we left the talks last night knowing we were going to arbitration” suggests that the PSRC were hell bent on arbitration.
4 Nigel Lewis seems to suggest a pay dispute. but no detail.
Why the absence of facts, and the reluctance of Al Brouard and civil servant Lewis?
This really is a shambles.
At least with arbitration we should get the full facts, facts that have been in short supply.
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Eve, Scott, etc
The bottom line is that the airport firefighters must have signed up for the job knowing full well the pay level and working conditions.
So why should anyone have any sympathy?
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I wonder if the firemen are giving any thought to the tourists whose holiday plans are also being ruined when the tourist industry is so crucial to the Island?
I’m sure there are many people who would gladly accept the responsibility and inconvenience of working antisocial hours rather than be unemployed. I imagine these firemen were informed of the conditions of employment when they took the jobs. Their behaviour is enexcusible and they don’t deserve jobs!
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I agree The Chief Minister and Policy Council need to get involved in this dispute today. If only to clear the scathing and damaging remarks about the States of Guernsey and Guernsey’s image which Flybe have currently written on their website.
Please do something now!
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The situation we have today at the airport stems from the weakness of our political masters and their jobsworth managers. In most commercial organisations heads would have rolled at all levels before it was allowed to get completely out of control like this.
I remember when, during a strike at the harbour, dockers were refused service in some shops. That isn’t the way to behave either; responding to a strike (and make no mistake the firemen are striking whatever they call it) with another strike just escalates the whole disgraceful affair.
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While the disruption and the damage to the island’s reputation is regretable to say the least, at least it is now a proper dispute and not a phoney dispute. Now we can get the independent arbitrators in to sort it out once and for all.
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In response to Eve
You knew what you were signing up for when applying for the job
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Give them what they want or sack them, either way just resolve it.
Has anyone in the States considered how badly this profiles the island? What about the knock on effect this has to Guernsey’s economy?
For example, business clients that are due to come to the island today (100 lets say). They would get a taxi from the airport, have lunch in a restaurant, maybe do some shopping in town, perhaps stay in a hotel before getting a taxi back to the airport. Now the taxi, restaurant, shops and hotel all lose this revenue from 100 people per day!
SORT IT OUT STATES OF GUERNSEY!!!
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I was supposed to be on business and meeting up with globally based colleagues and extenal suppliers. This trip can not be rearranged given the numbers travelling and my company has lost of £1000 in flights, accomodation and lost opportunity
Guernsey office is once again a laughing stock and would not surprise me if they closed it down.
Not enough firemen at the airport….as do the police and hospital do…get yourselves some licences and employ trained airport firemen from Europe. Lets get these locals into jobs where that they can not hold the whole island to ransom and if we have to employ 10 non-locals on 10 year licences you will have my vote. I take 100+ flights a year, you are risking my job, my home and many others on this island livlihoods because of this farce. Politicians, firemen and a joke of a union…GROW UP.
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This is an unfortunate situation for Guernsey and does not look good to outsiders but the problem is that the basic salary is not enough to live on and the PSRC will not give a pay rise.
None of the firefighters want to be in this situation.
The job is NOT a licensed job so you must be local or live in Open Market to do the job. There has been an instance where a firefighter had to leave the job after a marriage breakdown resulted in him losing his local home and having to leave the island as the salary is not enough to pay open market rent.
I can appreciate that the public are unhappy with the
situation but until the PSRC sort out the mess they have created the situation is only going to get worse.
Firefighters are resigning on a daily basis, some after 20 years service because they are sick to the back teeth of being made out to be the bad guys.
If the situation is not resolved soon there won’t be any firefighters left to sack.
Still all you guys who are so keen to see them sacked can apply for their jobs, oh what was that…… you’re not happy to work shifts, Bank Holidays, be on call 24/7, not be allowed to leave the Island unless you are on one of your 20 days holiday a year and earn a basic salary of 21K Still at least you could wash your car while you are there and fit in a game of pool!
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What a disgrace. Many Guernsey residents have lost or will lose jobs as the recession gets worse. Yet those people in safer jobs make it worse for everyone else. It doesn’t get more selfish.
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Ok now seeing some very valid reasons about being upset about working conditions that I was unaware of.
But industrial action is not the answer and you are aware of the chaos you are causing and damage you are doing.
You are a disgrace and I hope that the states changes the packages for you, gets loads of applicants for the vacancies, trains them and then sack every last one that has gone on strike.
Name and shame all involved then see how the public feels!
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Whoever organised this strike is a cynical nasty person who has taken his position and used it to no doubt ruin peoples holidays, and cause tens of thousands of pounds worth of hassle, for ordinary people.
The fireman will have lost most if not all of the sympathy they had with the normal Guernsey folk by taking this action today of all days.
When I saw the aiport arrivals and departures links from this website, and a wall full of “Cancelled” I immediately lost all sympathy, and frankly despite being firmly on their side prior to today I now hope they dont get their raise now (if indeed thats waht this about), because they do not deserve it anymore.
Congratulations!
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AIRPORT FIRE SERVICE 239474 :
They joined the job knowing their terms and conditions, and now they want them changed. They are striking because they haven’t got their own way. Give them a call and tell them what you think. They’re all sat around doing nothing so the least you can expect from them is for one to bother to pick up the phone.
What a bunch of selfish, unprofessional ludites. I say to the Fire Fighters :Get back to work, and recognise the position of responsibility your job places you in, and take it seriously. Stop playing with other people’s lives just because you don’t like the job YOU SIGNED UP TO.
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There is a lot of emotion on this topic and understandably so. I can not believe that EVERY fireman is on call 24 hours a day. Surely there is a specified order of who would be called upon. I agree the 5am call would not be nice but I would also expect that after say 6pm the likelihood of being called upon is remote so to suggest there is no opportunity for a social life is pathetic. I do have some sympathy as the States should have resolved this but taking this course of action is not sensible if they want to keep any of the public on their side. It would be useful if the package they are on and the terms that are causing problems were made public then all this speculation would be removed and we, the public, can agree or disagree with what they are after. I am not surprised that new recruits are not being found with this hanging over the recruitment process.
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Well done Vee and Scott, well said I fully agree
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1 overnight at gatwick (no breakfast and no choice = £75
1 train ticket to weymouth = £40
1 overnight in weymouth (breakfast included – yea!) = £35
1 boat ticket = £48
2 days lost pay = £150
food = £50
cost of phone calls = dunno but its a lot now!
Thats the finanical cost, but as others have said…there are untold personal costs…I hope that the person that needed to get home to see a dying family member makes it in time…you can not put a cost on last moments.
Amount of support for firefighters = 0
Amount of support for States = 0
Shame on you all for not sorting this all out last time round
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Sorry to disappoint you AJF and Russ but I’m not a firefighter, I’m a woman who is on their side.
Yes – they were aware of what they were signing up for, but having to continuously cover serious staffing shortages and not having a pay rise for 3 years is wearing a bit thin now.
I hope you and your shallow minds never have to be pulled out of burning wreckage.
There’s still time to redeem yourself by joining the support group on Facebook.
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I would like to know what suddenly happened to make them go on strike? They have continued covering shortfalls in staffing until now – despite not getting on-call pay.
There was news of a meeting yesterday – after which the firemen all walked out. Fantastic mediation!
I do feel desperately sad for all the travellers but at the same time i also understand how the firemen are feeling. Their goodwill has been taken for granted for several years (since recruitment and retention has become an issue) and now Al Brouard is on the news bleating on about the fact that RPI is -2% and they cannot justify giving them a pay rise which sounds to me like they were waiting for this. Just offer them the same as the Civil Servants got and some on-call pay + enough staff to ensure that they get protected days off. How many others would be prepared to work 7 days a week – sometimes going for 24 hours without a proper break. This is dangerous as well as stupid. I know that they regularly do this: work the late shift finishing at 9pm or whenever the last flight gets in, then are called in for an emergency medical flight or air/sea rescue overnight – then have to work their early shift starting at 5am. What do other airports pay their firemen?
Contrary to what is alluded on here there are not queues of people lining up to become airport firemen – if there were we would not be in this mess.
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Eve/Vee or whatever.
Firstly, they applied, they signed the contract. Dont make them out like they are saints for putting up with their “terrible treatment”. Its simple, dont like, dont apply, dont sign, and most of all dont get finance sector envy, just quit and move on.
If no-one took the jobs in the first instance, the states would automatically have to look at the salary band for that position, and review it. As its stands these people were happy to sign a contract, theres an old fashioned phrase which I beleive starts “you make your bed……..”
Secondly, how would you feel if you saved up all year and then your holidays were ruined by thoughtless (yes thoughtless) action??
This is a high stakes game of poker being played by BOTH SIDES, but its the average Guernseyman loses out.
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“Why didn’t Al Brouard tell the presenter why there is a dispute. All he said is that the difference was too wide”
Because AB is a decent man trying to play a straight back. It’s unethical to tell the public that Guernsey;s highest paid snooker players are demanding 30%.
Personally, I think AB should have just stated the facts. But he chose not to.
Last rumour is that Ron Le Cras would send them all back in for £4000 bonus! Choke!!!
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why can the firefighters at the Aresenal not provide cover?! They are trained …
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What i dont understand is if the airport firefighters are paid loads of money, sit around doing nothing etc as some of you claim then surely its a dream job? So where are your names on the wannabe firefighters list.If its such a easy job put your money where your mouth is and apply for a job. As for all those calling for them to be sacked, i assume you’re quite happy for the airport to be closed for months whilst recruitement and training take place? After all fires cant be put out with the hot air you’re blasting around!!
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ThaMan
Don’t you realise that the reason this island is in such a mess as regards airport fire cover is because those who got fed up did as you suggested: they quit and moved on! Result: shortage of staff and increased need for those left to work extra shifts on a regular basis.
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LS, the arsenal firefighters are not trained in airport firefighting. and if the provide cover the same situation arises where they will have to be called in on their days off to provide cover.
And for the people who think they are in the wrong, how would you feel about giving up your weekends to work? The airport firefighters give up their days off just to keep the airport open, so they see evn less of their family, is that fair?
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The recruitment issue seems to be another lie being trotted out buy the Union Disunite. Would now appear they include retirees, people who have left the island, a couple of long term illness people and career changers.
Time these muppets started telling the truth.
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Rachael:
No, my name is not on the applications list because I would never sign up for that job (boring, unfulfilling, no career path etc). But… THEY DID. And for that reason, they should be at work. Simple.
And to others who talk of their hope that the non supporters need to be dragged from a burning wreckage : What?!!! What a ridiculous and hollow argument. So our lack of support for striking fire fighters means we’re not entitled to get the service WE PAY FOR? Come on, be realistic, all the non-supporters are asking for is professionalism from the Fire Fighters, is that really too much to ask?
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Scott is it fair that people are losing hundreds of pounds down to them because of canceled flights or paying extra to stay a night in Gatwick because they couldn’t get down to Portsmouth for 7am this morning for the ferry back…..
Yes I sympathize with the Firefighters to and extent… but I am starting to lose the sympathy I had, As it is now effecting people who have nothing to do with this.
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Well at least the firefighters will have plenty of time to catch up on their window cleaning rounds. What about the Ambulance Service who provide 24 hour cover with low pay. What about those who work in the tourist industry with no time off and low pay. In the current climate most feel lucky enough to hold on to a job and could not afford to strike. Why is it that the only people who strike these days are working for the States? Because in the real world you would not dare to hold your employer to ransom.
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This really is most inconvenient, it looks like Mr P is going to have to charter a yacht to guarantee getting us down to Saint Tropez at the weekend, what a long trip that is likely to be!
I can fully understand why they are asking for more money, don’t the States realise how much it costs to keep a girl in Blahniks, Prada and fizz?
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Merlin
Yes, I do see that distinction, however staff attrition is completely different from…..
-Not quitting.
-Keeping a job that you must be happy with to some degree because you havent quit.
-Then moan about how bad it is and then take it out on the rest of the island by not turning up to work.
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Irrespective of the detail, the Firefighters have now lost all public support, and that is what is being reflected here in the angry calls to “Sack tham all”. No matter what, the firefighters are loosing ordinary Guernsey families their holidays, cash and jobs. Make no mistake, this debacle makes Guernsey look third world and business is going to our competitors right now (and that means our jobs too).
The flying public needs to trust that Firefighters are disciplined, rational and considered in their actions, and then they do this to prove they are none of these things.
Big own goal for the firefighters, but at least we now know what we’re dealing with.
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To all the airport FF
My sympathies to you and your families for the awful conditions you have had to work under over the last few years.
But I hope you sleep well tonight knowing that what you have done is caused trauma to many thousands of people, caused upset by people not being able to see loved ones on their deathbeds, caused the cancellation of operations (thereby creating even more distress).
Please don’t listen to Ron ‘Scargill’ Le Cras anymore and do the decent and honourable thing. You’ve made your point. Just don’t start moaning if you get refused service at any establishments in future.
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Merlin – “What do other airports pay their firemen?”
http://www.tips4jobs.co.uk/job-bank/police-fire-and-rescue/career-as-a-fireman.php
Errrrr if you look at the end of the article then it would seem a lot less then we do…………………………………………………………………
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I for one have been supporting the Fire Service – however I’m not sure I agree with a full blown strike.
I work in a different occupation, but work shifts over a 24 hour period. It is hard enough to plan social events, nights out etc remembering to make extra plans in case I get called back into work, or asked to cover an extra shift.
The firemen signed up to their T&C’s expecting to have a decent set of hours, but having to cover shift after shift after shift is beyond a joke. As I said above, when they stopped covering extra shifts, I fully supported them. They shouldn’t have to work in those conditions. A full strike though does seem a desperate measure…..
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Didn’t we have a vaguely similar situation a few years back with the police force ie an undermanned workforce having to do lots of overtime, and a lack of interest from local people to fill the vacancies.
How was this fixed? Well if I recall the bridge was gapped by bringing in already qualified police from UK forces by offering a sweet deal, during this time they tweaked the employment package and went on a recruitment drive aimed at locals, and I think this sorted the problem.
On a side note, did the overworked police staff ever go on strike? No (as they aren’t allowed), did they hold the island to ransom by working only their contractual hours, no they worked hard for a few years as they knew the problem was in hand, and the reputation of the island would have been tarnished with crime sprees.
Did those with family miss out on time with their children, of course they did but as a professional work force they stuck with the job they loved.
I also recall there being a road traffic incident involving an overworked officer as a direct result of being overworked.
Can the same team who managed the police force problem please get involved with this current fiasco.
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Scott, some of us work weekend. I have not had a day off all bank holiday weekend, which is the norm. Am I going to go on strike?? NO!
My work has been greatly effected by the pathetic stunt today. I have had a LOT of angry visitors to deal with, locals trying to get off. it’s a shame there wasn’t more warning and Condor could’ve stepped in to help, but there wasn’t enough time to organise crew for the boats no doubt. At least Manche Iles Express stepped in.
Will this still be the case tomorrow?
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Are there true staff shortages eg no holiday cover or are the firemen on call only in case someone throws a sickie? If the latter then there aren’t really staff shortages and the firemen should be expected to cover. If the former then additional firemen should be trained.
No one seems to be revealing what the true dispute is – does anyone know? Whatever the reasons I don’t know a single person who supports the firemen and their action in holding the Island to ransom is unforgiveable.
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After reading the comments it is obvious that feelings are deep on both sides of the argument. So just a few things.
1) Yes, they know what the salary and benefits are when they sign the contract, but they probably didn’t think about having to cover overtime or sickness on the majority of their days off. How many office workers would like to work all weekend as well?
2)Airport Firefighters are highly trained, the fact they don’t have emergencies every day should be regarded as a good thing. I would prefer to have well rested Firemen in case of an accident rather than some that can barely keep their eyes open because of Fatigue!!
3) If, as some people suggest , they sack all of them, how many do you think would stick around to see out the notice period? Probably none, leaving a scenario of your airport being shut for 6 weeks or longer while and advert is sorted, licences arranged and contracts signed. Probably double that or more if ab-initio training is required in the uk.
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There are some very valid comments here – they say it all. I hope the firemen and PSRC read them and feel ashamed of themselves!
Meanwhile, why don’t both side stop being idiots and ruining everyone else’s lives? Just pay the firemen what they want until a new fire team has been recruited and trained. Then sack the firemen and sack the idiots on the PSRC and their bosses, who are obviously incompetent managers.
Either way just resolve it A.S.A.P.
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Good spot Mrs P
“£16,000 rising to £23,000 with experience”
So there goes another one of their lies. Wait for it……..
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Do you know who is at fault here?
The firemen have a lot to answer for for not warning everyone in advance and behaving like adults.
But it is clearly the States. They are just unbeleivably incompetent. For example, try phoning the Guernsey Airport Information Advice line about the strike delays – tele 01418-234757.
It is 15:16pm, and the message has still not been updated since 08:15 this morning!!
No wonder they can’t find a settlement in 18 months!
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I’m stuck in London…. I’m not busting a gut to get home to an island governed by idiots. It’s nice to know this website is doing its best for those stranded in the UK… “Full coverage in today’s Guernsey Press”… righto I’ll just pop to the local Sainsbury’s and get one.
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Shame on you Airport Fire Service, the only people that are going to suffer are the hard working general public. Any support you had is long gone. Get off your lazy backsides and get back to work!!
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Like Merlin I find it a puzzle as to why the cover issue suddenly changes to becoming a full strike.
Clearly something must have happened for such action to be taken during a holiday week.
I haven’t had the pleasure of listening to Mr Le Cras but if he is as single minded as Al Brouard is about arbitration, then I can begin to understand why this debacle has taken place.
I don’t know whether Al Brouard is really ignorant of Guernsey’s industrial law or just looking for sympathy when he rattled out the “we wanted to go to arbitration but the firefighters refused” Mr Brouard clearly didn’t realise that Guernsey law has definitions as to what an industrial dispute is. He still seemingly is unaware that the circumstances existing up to last night did not, legally, constitute an industrial dispute.
Perhaps the arbitration will tell us the reasons for the full strike.
Until then, hopefully normal service will be restored, not for the peace of mind of the PSRC and its negotiators, but for the convenience of the people of Guernsey and those who visit the island.
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DS’s fantastic comment:No, my name is not on the applications list because I would never sign up for that job (boring, unfulfilling, no career path etc). DS YOUR AN IDIOT!
you saying it has no career path, whys that? how much do u earn? you get a company car? do u work weekends?
yeah i know they signed the contract like u and i BUT you dont know what goes on behind closed doors do u? no!
this effects my family, how does this effect u????do u work there? do u no any1 that works there?
I’m proud to support the firemen as i like standing up against people like you!
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As many people must have suspected the firefighters strike has NOTHING to do with having to cover extra shifts and EVERYTHING to do with just wanting more money without having to work for it, if extra cover was bought in and they were never required to work overtime would they be satisfied?
The answer is NO!
The rest of us lower paid workers all need some extra cash but fortunately for Guernsey we are not in a position to hold the island to ransom.
Its quite simple really, if you’re not satisfied with your lot, LEAVE!
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To all those who are quoting ‘working conditions’, that’s an absolute lie, this is all about money, why else would they be striking and not just quit? They like the fact that they can only have to work hard when called upon, and all other times race their firetruck up and over the runway.
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Like Merlin I find it a puzzle as to why the cover issue suddenly changes to becoming a full strike.
Clearly something must have happened for such action to be taken during a holiday week.
I haven’t had the pleasure of listening to Mr Le Cras but if he is as single minded as Al Brouard is about arbitration, then I can begin to understand why this debacle has taken place.
I don’t know whether Al Brouard is really ignorant of Guernsey’s industrial law or just looking for sympathy when he rattled out the “we wanted to go to arbitration but the firefighters refused” Mr Brouard clearly didn’t realise that Guernsey law has definitions as to what an industrial dispute is. He still seemingly is unaware that the circumstances existing up to last night did not, legally, constitute an industrial dispute.
Perhaps the arbitration will tell us the reasons for the full strike.
Until then, hopefully normal service will be restored, not for the peace of mind of the PSRC and its negotiators, but for the convenience of the people of Guernsey and those who visit the island.
MrsP
You will find other instances where Guernsey incomes are very much higher than the UK. CFE Lecturers are an example.
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It is all about the money so pay them more. Soon as the bonus ran out it is “everyone out” so frankly they have lost all my sympathy
In some countries, a traffic warden, a banker are jobs everyone loves to hate. In Guernsey, the last year has put Airport firemen well out in front and if introduced to an AF at a function, I would be polite but would walk away.
The answer – I pay for a ticket which includes tax for the airport facilities. Privatise the AF’s, remove all unions, or if this not acceptable, bring in foreign workers to make up the numbers. I am sure we would have 100’s of trained applicants wanting to live and contribute to our Island.
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It takes two to tango.
Both parties need to come to the table and do a deal.
This is costing me a fortune – accommodation in london, food, phone bills etc. I’m lucky that my employer is letting me work from our London office today – but having used/booked up all my leave for the year I’d be taking unpaid leave.
I’m not calling for them to be strung up, but surely the States could get some cover in – perhaps the armed forces could assist or a relief force from the UK.
In the words of Flybe’s spin man: Somone show some leadership!
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there is no doubt one leading individual who has succeeded in influencing and poorly advising the remaining firefighters. Never theless they ought to all be replaced, by now the states should have a plan for this. This would show the necessary strength. Sadly the calibra of person dealing with this matter for the states in the PSD will not be helping.
The financial cost of this to business and commerce will be dramatic – more than 10 times the value of the extra pay over 10 years but it would be wrong to agree on the basis of this point.
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Eve, Facebook is mostly a tool for people with too much time on their hands so it is appropiate that a ’support group’ has been set up for the AFS on this website. Sad.
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The best thing that could happen is for the Fireman to ditch the union and deal directly with the PSRC.
When unions were first formed, they had honourable intentions to help poor workers who had precious little protection at the time and were exploited. These days, human rights laws and employee protection laws largely deal with these issues so unions have lost a lot of their original purpose.
These days, they seem to be on a par with football agents. Although I’m sure they do some good, they largely seem content simply to cause trouble and throw spanners in the works of negotiations. Maybe it’s to justify their existence, or perhaps they just like to be seen on TV. Either way, I strongly believe everyone would be better off if they were ditched and negotiations were done directly.
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Vee Most of us do not know what the full story is….. but I am losing sympathy for them.
By going on strike it is costing the us average folk money, which will be lost on canceled flights, hotels for extra overnight stops e.t.c…
We are people they should be looking to support them not turn us away by costing us time and money…
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SACK THEM – there are a lot of men and women in the U.K who would jump at the chance of such a well paid job–then your EX-FIREFIGHTERS could all have the time off without upseting every ones travel plans!!!
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Vee:
Brilliant. What an intelligent argument. I’m an idiot. Thank you for enlightening me.
For a minute I just thought I was a tax and air-fare payer expecting a level of service from professionals who signed up to do a job that I rely on.
This affects your family does it? Your shallow regard for others is clearly mirrored throughout the Airport Fire Service. What about the thousands (hundreds of thousands) of people who are being affected now. If the Fire-Fighters didn’t like their terms of service they should not have joined.
And in answer to your question, no I do not get a company car. I work nearly every weekend, I work almost all Bank Holidays, I am used to being on call, I am expected to work overtime at the drop of a hat (often with NO PAY). But am I striking? No, because I knew all of that when I signed my contract.
Tell your contact within the Fire Service get back to work, or find another job. I don’t want my taxes going into the pocket of someone who has such a blatant disregard for the needs of the island.
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Well said Paul Le P. When you hear their ‘leader’ on the radio it’s like a time warp back to the confrontational times of the 70s and early 80s, complete with all the old style union jargon and posturing.
Out brothers, out.
Alright brothers, we’ve shown ‘em, you can all go back now….until the next time.
Very, very depressing.
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As with all negotiations there has to be compromise and will from both sides to resolve an issue, if it was foggy all day today then we would cope (as we do on many occassions), this is preventable human fog and should have been blown away well before desperate measures were taken, the February “sick day” warning should have sounded the fog horns well in advance of today. This will only be resolved around a table and probably with a sensible independent mediator, this needs to be done now before the “fog” decends again and to other decent States workers with similar simmering disputes. A blame culture when there were so many warning signs serves no one well. A fair days pay for a fair days work reviewed independently once a year, not hard as I’m sure they are decent folk driven to distraction not hard core unionists with political agendas.
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again you fail to see the full story!
do u work at the moment?
you never answered my question why do they have no career path? you saying that about all the other services then? nice to know where you stand!
Yes you are an idiot! glad to have enlightened you!
have you had a pay rise in the past 3 years? yes i bet you have!
i’ll kindly decline on your offer to talk to my “contact” at the airport, if you didnt know the airport is open again! so you can rest your head now before your blood pressure shots thru the roof!
excuse me, thats my taxes aswell! but we’d rather use our tax money on the people at the bouet that dont work wouldnt we!
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Quote Local Resident : “A fair days pay for a fair days work reviewed independently once a year, not hard as I’m sure they are decent folk driven to distraction not hard core unionists with political agendas.”
I couldn’t agree more, hence my belief (stated earlier) that we would all be far better off if the union was ditched. Ditch the union and you ditch the political posturing, tub thumping and other associated garbage that comes with it; enabling both parties to get down to proper negotiations face to face.
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VEE,
Are you suggesting that the Airport firemen have not had a payrise in 3 years?
What a load of nonsense, they have had cost of living like all States workers.
There is some real rubbish being posted on this forum, fantasy facts and figures!
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Quote Local Resident : “A fair days pay for a fair days work reviewed independently once a year, not hard as I’m sure they are decent folk driven to distraction not hard core unionists with political agendas.”
I couldn’t agree more, hence my belief (stated earlier) that we would all be far better off if the union was ditched. Ditch the union and you ditch the political posturing, tub thumping and other associated garbage that comes with it; enabling both parties to get down to proper negotiations face to face.
100 per cent agree. This is not the uk and we do not need unions
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Speaking as a public service worker who is having a pay cut this year, and has now had his holiday messed up, I am apalled that the Firemen have chosen half term, to destroy trips of families and children at this busy time. Send your invoices to the selfish lot!! I have been a union member for 30 years, but I am ashamed of them, and the damage they have done to your and my Island.
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Blue:-
“In some countries, a traffic warden, a banker are jobs everyone loves to hate. In Guernsey, the last year has put Airport firemen well out in front”
Nah, still bankers and politicians for me (and that’s before the credit crunch and expenses scandal!).
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Bob – this is the UK………and we dont need unions either!!
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Vee:-
I salute Kevin and DS. How on earth they are actually managing to decipher your obscure and rhetorical ramblings is beyond me.
How do you know so much about other peoples lives? Maybe you have bought the IP-Sniffer 3000 plug-in? It’s a Windows program that automatically gives you the postcode, job title and salary figure of everybody posting online. Quite handy for discussions such as this.
“do u work weekends?”
“have you had a pay rise in the past 3 years? yes i bet you have!”
“you get a company car?”
this effects my family, how does this effect u????do u work there?
Vee, it’s absolute nonsense.
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what a disgrace i bet if a relative of theirs needed medical treatment in england they wouldn’t be on strike they are pathetic.why can’t some of the town firemen be trained to support the airport skivers .even if they earn 24k that is still more than alot of people ,i do a 48 hr week and earn less than 21 k so i think i could cope with 24k. They dont seem to understand the implications of the actions they take affect the island in many ways all in a bad way
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I have spent a frustrating morning at the airport today trying to put my son on a flight to Gatwick in order to catch a connecting flight to Spain for his half term holiday. We spent 4.5 hours waiting in hope, only to be told at 12:30pm that all Aurigny flights for the day had been cancelled. His connecting flight was missed and we have had to cancel his holiday on the same day he was supposed to fly out.
What a bad time to strike – right at the start of the school holidays!! Full credit to Aurigny for offering a full and immediate refund and fingers crossed we can claim back the cost of the connecting flight, but it doesn’t compensate for the loss holiday in the eyes of a very disappointed 12 year old.
It’s a shame both parties didn’t consider just how many people would be affected by this strike and couldn’t come to some agreement before taking such drastic action
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These so called wokers must now be ostracised for their apalling behaviour. Fellow islanders, make sure you tell them what you think of their disgusting behaviour. They must not be allowed to get away with this. We need to out the Trotskyists in their midst- so come on big, brave firefighters, who was it that called you out on strike. Name them , name them!!
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I have been told that the Jersey airport firemen earn about £15,000 a year more than they do here? Same job, same qualifications etc. Other island jurisdictions are similar apparently i.e. Isle of Man. That is probably why they cannot get anyone to come over here to work!
Guernsey firemen have not had a payrise for the last year either – as they are officially still negotiating. They had an interim payment which was shared out amongst them all and which covered them until May 9th. They continued to work extra to cover all flights until last night. Whatever happened at last evenings talks with Al Brouard seems to have been the straw that broke the camels back. I guess we will never know what was said but it seems suspicious that he called a meeting when he knew Ron Le Cras was not around. Let’s hope that the mediators can sort this mess out soon. Both sides are losing at the moment and the public have lost patience.
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Was at Gatwick this morning.
One of the lucky ones who took the option to divert to Aurignys Stanstead service.
Back home in Guernsey now.
Leaving aside the Fire Fighters and local civil servants who have failed us miserably, the organisation at Gatwick left much to be desired also.
The girl on the Aurigny check in desk could not answer most of the questions and all we got was an unanswerable Guernsey telepnone number, and a pathetic pre-prepared excuse of an apology from Colin Le Ray at Guernsey Airport. The queue at the Servisair desk for enquiries was massive and there was only one lady there to answer questions.
Surely when such disruption occurs Aurigny should get extra help and advisory staff on hand to help. Get your act together Aurigny with less money spent on flash advertising and more on face to face contact when these problems occur.
It took over an hour to get to the front of the queue.
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Eve, re: Facebook – FYI, whilst there is a little group supporting the firemen, there is a far more popular one suggesting that these greedy, lay-abouts stop holding the island to ransom, go back to work and consider themselves lucky that they, unlike hundreds in the Island, still have jobs in the current economic climate.
I mean, if they’re going to strike, can’t they do it whilst playing pool up at the airport fire station so the thousands of people who depend on this essential link can continue to travel??
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I’m with the Firefighters on this one – good luck to you all. You may be sitting around waiting for an emergency but I’m sure people would change their tune if their was a major air crash – they would be praising you to the hilt.
If office based Civil Servants or Teachers were striking over pay I’m sure there wouldn’t be this outcry ?
I’m sure most of us are guilty of sitting around at work doing nothing – surfing the net for instance ?????
You Firefighters do a great job !!
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£34K?? I am married to an airport fireman and, unless he has approximately 1/3 of his wages paid separately into a secret account, then I can assure you that that is, funnily enough, about a 1/3 exaggeration on their current pay. If they earned £34K I doubt whether we would even be on this forum as the action would be a non-issue because it wouldn’t have been taken because that is a decent salary for the job. Show a bit of support, as I hope they would for you if you found yourself on a similar situation. There are just so, so many factually incorrect statements on this page that I unfortunately don’t have time to go into each one but would ask that unless you have the facts, maybe you shouldn’t comment with presumptions.
WENDY, not being the woman scorned I am afraid that I cannot connect with your fanciful ideas but can assure you that A. no ‘good’ 5 figure sum is earned and they earn nowhere near your ‘estimation’ (was your ex a station officer or the chief?); B. I have never known a BBQ up at the station and my husband has worked there now for nearly a decade C. They have to spend time in the gym as fitness is a fundamental aspect of their job (imagine having to potentially enter a burning plane over and over again pulling out person after person – physically exhausting and so a very high level of fitness is required) D. there has been absolutely no ‘tactical sickness’ – during this process anyone who was off sick was made to attend the Doctor and obtain a sicknote. In addition, my car is filthy. My advice to you would be to get over it.
JACKIE , the turned over truck had nothing to do with the PSRC (obviously). In that incident maybe you should be more elated that no-one was hurt rather than dissing what happened when you don’t have the facts (again). By the way the damage was more in the region of £150K and was covered by insurance. £350K would have bought a brand spanking new engine. I need to smash your idealistic vision of Mr Brouard as this straight and ethical man silenced some of the management in the States who were in support of the firemen as it didn’t help their case– the firemen have a copy of the letter.
BB, may I draw your attention to a recent event whereby a fully trained Guernsey airport fireman, having split with his local partner moved back to the UK and worked in an airport there. He recently tried to return to the island to work as a firefighter at the airport here again and was refused a license. As you can see the rejoining of this individual would have helped with the staffing issue and saved the states money as he would not have had to be fully trained. Yet another fantastic decision by the states of Guernsey.
To all the people who say that the Firemen knew what they signed up to when they took the job, you are right, they did. In no part of any contract or in any part of the recruitment process was compulsory overtime mentioned.
To all you people who say if you don’t like it leave – they have – that is why there is a recruitment and retention problem. There are also a number on the verge.
To all the people who can see the facts and know that this is the absolute last resort for the firemen and support them in their action – thank you. They deserve what they are asking for and lets hope they get it.
On a positive note, this last Saturday and Sunday my husband had his first weekend off this year which the children loved.
Finally, to clarify the mistake in the media, the firemen did not walk out of the meeting on Monday night. In fact, the PSRC representatives (Naftel, Harnden, Brouard) and Mr Flouquet, after meeting with the firefighters and not even bothering to speak to them, adjourned to a separate room to have a meeting of their own which the industrial disputes officers had to mediate by running between the firemen and the PSRC with messages until eventually the PSRC left the building without engaging with the Firemen again. Unbelievable? Oh yes. And some of these people are in charge of this Island.
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Great news everyone!
At the moment if one Googles “airport firemen” Guernsey is currently seventh in the rankings. Guernsey and the associated strike, that isn’t industrial action obviously…………
Few more days of this lunacy and we could just be number one.
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Oh dear a lot of thickies out there arn’t there.
However good you think the wages are, however easy you think the job, its not a good enough package to keep staf. Staff leave, are replaced, new staff realise its not a dream job after all, so when a better offer comes along off they go, leaving a gradual downward spiral.The job has to be made more atractive to keep manning levels up. If we’re short of nurses, we close wards,if we’re short of police we have less patrols , if we’re short of Firemen we bully them with emotional blackmail into working exessive hours, take two years or more, and not bother to address the reason for poor staff retension, sounds fair. Oh and while we can’t afford to up the firemans pay, lets spend a hundred million and include a longer runway to get even bigger planes in. What staffing levels are needed for that?
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Merlin and Stephen John’s comments stand out like beacons of reason in the storm of hysteria in this post.
There are two sides in this dispute which we were told last week was not a dispute but managerial problems.
So what has changed?. As Jackie knows what all the lies are can she not tell us what she knows of the truth?.
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It’s sad to see so many people have been brainwashed into believing that Unions are always the villains in these sort of disputes. Banning Unions and the right for workers to take industrial action are the tools of last resort for governments. How can Unite be accused of “political posturing, tub thumping and other associated garbage that comes with it” when there aren’t any political ideals to oppose? All it shows is that this concensus government agrees with maintaining the cheapest possible service whilst undermining dedicated workers’ morale. It will only end up costing the States more to ’ship in’ already trained staff and trainees and then you lot will be wondering why the States are squandering so much money on public services.
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I have a question for anyone who knows about our airport operations.
What would have happened yesterday if there was a medical emergency??
Thanks in advance.
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Well said EMTV. And to think that Flouquet is in charge of this debacle aswell.
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Well, they’ve shown there in the power to disrupt the island hugely, so surely now there’s no need to cause any more disruption, that’s the only way they’ll retain an ounce of respect from the general public, who are not ‘in the know’.
As soon as they start their games again then I can see a lot of people going vigilante! ;o)
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THANKS for all that have supported us. Apologies to all that have been affected by this ( which includes us). To all the others who have spouted off so much drivel throughout this ongoing saga, either because they are jealous, mis-informed, not wanting to hear the fact or just plain THICK then put up and shut up.
Yesterday was simple in that it took 3 simple hours for 3 independent individuals to sit back and realise from the factual statements that the whole saga should not of taken 2 and a half years and in essence only taken the 3 hours. The PSRC are wholeheartedly to blame and this is backed up by all that deal with them and the 3 independent reports (costing huge amounts) ruling that they are not fit for purpose!!!
Anyway thanks once again and at the end of the day justice was done. To all those who have been affected by this I suggest that they take this up with Brouard and co….
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The C.M. is supposedly bringing some proposals to the States.
Don’t hold your breath; this “government” is incapable of concerted effort and will do nothing except gas.
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Arnald – preventing industrial action by certain public services is necessary to ensure the smooth running of a State. I agree that doesn’t excuse poor salaries or working conditions and the States are by no means above reproach in all this however it is still necessary for the greater good of society as a whole.
Those who choose a career in public services should be aware of the responsibily they have to their local community, which brings me onto the next point. I really do wonder if the firefighters would have gone on strike on a half term bank holiday (targeted maximum disruption) if they hadn’t been put up to it by the union? Let’s face it, the Union had little to lose reputationally from strike action (many have a deep mistrust of the unions after the 70s and 80s) whereas the firefighters -the majority of whom are most likely decent, hardworking people – have now been made into social pariahs by poorly timed action.
So, although I didn’t suggest banning trade unions (contrary to your post) I do wonder at times whose interests they are really looking out for, the workers or their own?
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I think you’re leaving a little something out geoff. Would you care to inform us about the £4,000 inducement (yes £4,000 per man) straight from the taxpayers’ coffers to get you all to resume normal working?
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EMTV and other FF supporters. I sympathise with your plight in trying to defend the ff as you are “in the know”. However, by going to PSRC for an increase in the basic salary and remuneration package you are going to the Public. Why is it that the FF cannot publicly tell us what they want? Come on…..try not to alienate the public as their actions have over the last few days and try to get public support. what is this “in the know” rubbish…..they are public servants paid by public funds….we have a right to know what you want. Lay it all out for us….what is the basic salary, overtime rates, holiday entitlement, pension scheme, medical insurance cover? How about job security in the current economic climate? Is that worth anything to them? It is sad on a day that Ideal lay off hard working folk the other hard working folk at the airport down tools. Tell us what the whole package is for an airport fireman….and I mean everything including an index linked pension scheme (by the way most of the private sector have seen their pension schemes go down by 20% and this is real money). What training is paid for by the employer (yes us)? In the finance sector and commercial sector, receiving training is a benefit. How long is the basic working week for that basic package? FF are not the only folk who have to work overtime. I think you will find that anyone over a low-grade employed in finance do not get paid overtime at all. So come on….open up this “in the know” can of worms and let the public decide by gaining back their support or loosing it for ever – if they haven’t lost it already.
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geoff:-
“or just plain THICK then put up and shut up.” ???
OK, thanks for the friendly advice but somehow I think that it’s you Airport Firemen that might need to follow this in future.
What if doctors, nurses, the ambulance service, sewage cart drivers etc. Decided they didn’t like your approach here and targeted just you for poor/ no service?
“I’m sorry Mr Geoff the doctor can’t see you for 3 weeks, hello again Mrs P, go straight through………………………”
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EMTV – Well said – we should support those who are there to protect us and willing to put their own lives on the line to save ours. The frequency of such an incident is not the point. In fact you should all be immensly grateful we live somewhere where such an occurrence is so infrequent and ashamed of yourselves for condemming those who would put their lives on the line to save ours.
These men may not work as hard as some of the rest of us do (in soem peoples opinions) but my sitting at a desk all day long does not save anyones life. It also does not keep the airport open in order for me to go on holiday or visit family. Yes the fact I earn a salary does indeed help but we have to face facts here, WE NEED THE FIREFIGHTERS and they are not going to do thier job, whatever in entails, on a dialy basis for a stupidly low salary. Would you ? They nearly all have second jobs IN ORDER TO MAKE ENDS MEET not because they feel like it.
Come on wake up Guernsey !!!!
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“THANKS for all that have supported us”
That will be one of the world’s shortest speeches. Even more deluded if you honestly beleive you even have 5% of the people behind you. Changing your name on forums to boost your ’support’ doesn’t count.
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Geoff
I’d have thought a slightly more contrite attitude would be a better course of action for you today.
You are not the most popular bunch, so coming on here and labelling people as thick isnt the wisest course of action after your display yesterday.
I think you guys need to ditch the union and employ some PR people.
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“Lay it all out for us”
They won’t but I will. 30% and 4000 to go back to work.
They won’t be transparent because their greed will be exposed for what it is. Blackmail!
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I think there is so much hyperbole on this forum that it is impossible to know the truth. Let’s just be grateful for the intervention of Lyndon Trott, who by the sounds of it, sat down and actually listened to the firemen – and then did something about their grievances! Compare this action with the 2 years on ongoing non-talks that have been going on with the PSRC.
If the post by EMTV is true (and as they are married to a fireman I am assuming it is) then the PSRC were the real cause of the lightening strike. As others have said, it has caused angst and disappointment for a lot of people – but no more than a foggy day would have caused. If the Chief Minister had not bothered to intervene then no doubt the airport would have been shut for a lot longer. I am sure that he is getting a lot of flak from the PSRC though, and in my opinion they are the real ’skargillists’ in this sage (I know there is no such word but you get my drift).
In response to ‘The Man’ : I believe that medical emergencies would have been flown off as the airport firemen were still at the airport in case this was needed – at least that is what was said on the news.
All we can hope for now is that the States negotiators can come to a sensible agreement and stop bleating on about -2% RPI. That is a nonsense and we all know it – just go down the supermarket and buy a basket of shopping! When negotiations started RPI was very high so trotting out this excuse is pathetic. How much are the PSRC Civil Servants earning – I would wager a guess that it is substantially more than the firemen they are treating with such disdain.
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Just done a word count on abuse such as “IDiot” and “thick”. It seems most of them come from the snooker player apologists. Classy guys LOL
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Thanks Jackie….does anyone want to deny that the FF want a 30% raise and £4k for going back to work?
I would still like to know the other benefits in the ff package such as training, pension, medical cover, overtime rates. And what is the working week?
If you want sympathy for a ridiculously low salary for a very important job….give us the detail….or does the union stop you from publicising this……transparency is a word this century popularised but never stood by, so I don’t really expect to see the truth!
Oh by the way all this talk of having to keep fit in the gym…..madness….most people have to pay £40/£50 p.m for access to a Gym..should they class it as a benefit of their work then?..yes they have to keep physically fit for their jobs…..of course they do. It’s a bit like moaning about having to read the papers because keeping up with current affairs is part of your job! Or learning how the latest computer system at your work functions – be it a till or a PC! If you work in Trust you need to know the law, if you work in Checkers you need to know how the till works, if you work in a pub you need to know whats in the news so you can talk to your punters. We all have to do things that are fundemental to keeping our jobs….and most of us have to do it in our own time – unpaid. So the argument of having to keep fit is poor, to say the least.
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EMTV clearly has a good insight into this issue.
The comment of the attitude of PSRC negotiators certainly is true. Having spent a decade or so in negotiations with the CSB, I am all to aware how much the so called negotiators wanted to avoid negotiating and run to arbitration or tribunal.
If the firefighters wanted to cause disruption they were able to do so by working to contract. Something must have happended on Monday night to cause the all out strike.
Interestingly, Al Brouard went to great lengths to avoid saying what the problem is, and when Radio G mentioned that Lyndon Trott was going to meet firefighters his(Brouard’s) response was “he can’t negotiate for us”.
It was almost as if Al Brouard was afraid the the CM might achieve something he and his committee had failed to achieve.
Returning to the £4000 could it possibly be that the PSRC saw this as payment for the absence of any working to contract? Could be.
It might help a better understanding if both sides were to set out their positions, what they want etc, then we will be better able to understand and comment on the matter.
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Why do we have so many customs offiers (in excess of 60)and so many Police men (in excess of 130)in Guernsey and so tew airpot firemen ???.
and so thew firemen?. Custom are over staffed why not loss say 10 customs offiers and employ 10 more firemen ?. problem sorted.
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I can hardly comprehend your naivety, Merlin, when you say we should all be grateful to Lyndon Trott for sitting down, listening to them and doing something about it.
Yes, maybe we should all be grateful to him for his intervention, but it’s very easy to ‘do something about it’ if that something amounts to writing out a cheque from the taxpayer for £120,000 (£4,000 each) to get them back to work.
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“Just done a word count on abuse such as “IDiot” and “thick”. It seems most of them come from the snooker player apologists. Classy guys LOL ”
Wish I had that much time on my hands.
As for 30% pay rise, it must be nice living in your little fantasy world.
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So no denial on 30% and a £4k pay off to go to contracted work? If you are paid £20k per annum and receive a £4k pay off that is one big fat bonus of around 20%…..not bad. If you hadn’t had a pay rise of inflation for the last 3 years you just got more in one lump sum.
If as quoted the £4k pay off to each amounts to a bill of £120,000 then we have 30 ff at the airport….how come we have insiders and relatives of ff’s saying that they haven’t been totally off duty for months with that many employed? How many ff’s are required for Cat6 cover?
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“That will be one of the world’s shortest speeches. Even more deluded if you honestly beleive you even have 5% of the people behind you. Changing your name on forums to boost your ’support’ doesn’t count.”
Not like you to be so cynical, Jackie! I like you when you’re angry….grrrr…!
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You’re quite funny too SM – but not for the same reasons :)
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Get in the boat!
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Martyn
See http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2009/05/27/press-in-air-deal/ for an acount of why theregturn to work.
Well done Richard Digard, Lyndon Trott and fire fighters for returning to work.
No mention of any payments.
Interesting threat they took with themm the new Head of HR for the States.
No wonder poor Al Brouard was spluttering about the CM not being able to negotiate when told the news of the meeeting on RG yesterday lunchtime. He really must have been worried that the CM would upstage him (and did).
Pity that some seem to be still moaning because Lyndon Trott was involved in the negotiations. Surely you would not have preferred to have firefighters remain on strike and public messed up?
Seems like good, common sense, decisive problem solving. Well done to all.
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If only this intervention had happened about two months ago as we requested.
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I am absolutely disgusted that after causing so much chaos and disruption, these people have been rewarded with £4k! What about all the self employed who lost their earnings because of the disruption? So now every time they want a bonus they just go on strike! Which states dept will be next to jump on the band wagon?
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Well Stephen John I hand to you my special award for the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard with this effort:-
“Seems like good, common sense, decisive problem solving. Well done to all.”
Unless it was sarcastic it which case I think you are hilarious.
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Mrs P
Not at all sarcastic.
Problem was a strike by firefighters
Required was an early return to work
Outcome was a return to work whilst matter being sorted.
What next industrial tribunal. Until then the airport remains open.
Isn’t that what everyone wanted? A return to work?
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Transparency, transparency! Did they return to work under “goodwill” or a payment……intriguing. The meeting held with CM, RD, SE and the FF’s sounds like another blackmail scam to me. They meet and provisionally agree terms(?) meaning they can go back on shift under “goodwill” that the proposals in the meeting will be met. What happens if these proposals are not met? They will strike again as advised by the Union. Sounds to me like they still want to beat the drum and force the States hand – our hands, our money.
Personally I do not feel they need to be glorified for returning to work at 3.30pm after 2 days of disruption. Aurigny got flights off as you would expect being state-owned. As for FlyBe of course it was too late, they are a private company looking for compensation not more expense.
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It seems perfectly reasonable to me that a leader should get involved in such an important dispute. We are not talking about bins not being emptied for a couple of days; we are talking about the closure of our Airport. If there was any time in Lyndon’s political career that he had to intervene or take action, then yesterday was the day.
If the fall out from that was that another politician appeared sidelined then that is of course unfortunate. However, I suspect with Richard Digard’s involvement a few quick phone calls and a rush up to the airport there was unlikely any time for pleasantries.
Action had to be taken and that action was immediate and effective.
As has been said elsewhere on the forum the wash-up will be conducted another day, but for now lets be thankful our airport is open and we can carry on as a functioning island.
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Our lack lustre States seem to have indeed been unable to deal with this long problem pragmatically and swiftly.
Some wise man once said that you get the government you deserve so I hope this will galvanise a few more to vote.
I had read the press and so was ready for the action that would take place in the morning of the 25th. It was reported that this would only affect Flybe (who I never fly with anyway). I and many others went ahead and booked flights on alternative providers to return to Guernsey in the evening. Only to be told 3.5 hours after the strikers threw their hissy fit that we were done for.
To walk out last minute was childish, selfish and dishonourable. I sympathised with the fire-fighters’ plight and was willing to amend my travel plans to accomodate them. I wonder now where I send my bill for £350 extra accomodation & travel and day’s docked wages?
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If an industrial tribunal has been set up by the Bailiff, it seems unlikely that any “deal has been done”, other than getting a return to work whilst the matter was being sorted out.
Nothing wrong with firefighters letting the CM and HR man know their views and what they want. Hopefully, this will inform the PSRC in its subsmissions and make a satisfactory outcome possible.
No doubt Mrs P will also find this sarcastic and hilarous as well.
Most will see it as an appropriate intervention to help the travelling public.
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This whole farago is, as usual, becuase of the cumbersome management (if that is the appropriate word) of the States. Personally, I believe the firemen have missed a trick here. They should abandon all attempts at improving their remuneration, but instead, provide a united front to teh States where they would provide firefighting services to the airport as a private company. They would, of course, provide the the most up-to-date equipment, as part of a detailed service level agreement with the States, who would, in turn, pay them the rate that allows Firefighters Ltd. to both pay themselves a reasonable wage, and allow for capital investment. The company would then be responsible for providing all aspects of the necessary fire cover, and would be subject to the penalties in the SLA should they fall short. By the same token, the States could be sued by Firefightes Ltd., should they fail to meet their contracted payments.
EVERYBODY wins. There is also a precedent for this, it’s called the Medical Specialist Group…..
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I’ll ignore Stephen Johns last sentence, I’m sure he’s just trying to raise my blood pressue.
Martini – Not only is yours easily the most sensible post on here but might just about be the idea of the decade for the good of Guernsey.
Have a G&T on me!
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The firemen are a disagrace to the Island. They have a total disregard for other people so why anyone wishes to support them I have absolutely no idea. I called the airport fire station yesterday and was told that they couldn’t talk – more likely too much of cowards to face up to the people that pay their wages – the public. I hope everyone will remember this the next time one of these people want their cars serviced, their plumbing fixed or other services. Most of them, we are told by the firemen, haven’t been doing the job for very long (due, we are told, to the large turnover of staff) so why did they take on the job in the first place. If this was a business in the private sector they would all have been sacked by now and their employers would have to pay compensation to their customers. I (and I hope others will do the same) will be seeking compensation from the Airport Fire Brigade for the losses that I have suffered as a result of the pathetic actions of these men.
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Of all the recent postings I think Anne has hit it on the head most succinctly.
As for Stephen’s “Seems like good, common sense, decisive problem solving. Well done to all.”
Well, yes, that’s one way of looking at it but I think a little tweak is needed to give a more accurate precis of how the problem was indeed solved:-
“Seems like good, common sense, decisive ransom paying. Well done to all.”
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Thank you Mrs P, for your kind words.
Personally, I believe the idea is a runner, but it would be an all or nothing decision for the men. NOBODY could back out and be part of the company, plus, the men would need to invest in the company in the first place to buy the assets from the States. This is not going to be easy, but I believe it could be done if there is a will!
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Mrs P
Just answer a simple question. Did you want the airport to reopen?
If the answer is yes, how would you suggest it would have reopened if Digard / Trott intervention had not taken place.
Were you aware of any other attempts to reopen the airport? If there were any they didn’t succeed.
Neither were the C and E specialist industrial relations staff able to get the airport reopened.
The airport is now open. Be grateful.
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Yes, Mrs P be grateful as Stephen John asks. We’ve got our airport reopen and all we had to do was pay a £120,000 ransom demand (sorry, recruitment and retention bonus); plus, as individuals, hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of delay and misery and inconvenience; plus, as businesses, hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of lost income; plus, as a community, a damaged image that could result in serious real damage to our island’s economy in future. Not a high price to pay at all, so be grateful!
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Stephen John;
What can I say?
My gast is well and truly flabbered.
Grateful?
Moi?
Well I suppose I could be grateful that the firemen haven’t dowsed visitors getting off planes with their little foam cannon or actually gone the whole hog and torched a plane whilst the passengers are waiting to board it but other than that what should I be grateful for?
That they might just have been the ones that managed to finally kill off the dying corpse of our tourist industry?
That they have lost businesses in Guernsey millions of pounds on their deplorable publicity stunt?
That my taxes no doubt are going to fund another brown envelope in the region of £4,000 each just to keep them turning up to do a days work?
How can you be grateful for a service they might stop again if the wind changes direction or if they suddenly decide that the duvet covers on their bunk beds are the wrong shade of blue?
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The airport is open as is should be. Stephen John says that we should be grateful. Grateful that the firemen are doing the job that they are paid to do – I don’t think so. They cost me the best part of £1,000 as a direct result of their stupid pathetic actions. What compensation am I going to receive? None, instead I have to contribute towards the £120,000 gift that they are going to receive to stop us being held to ransom once again – in fact, no, to save us being held to ransom until 31.12.09 only. I will never forget the misery they caused and nor will the hundreds of people that I saw stuck at Gatwick over the last 2 days (not to mention those stuck elsewhere). If they are discontent in their job I suggest they get a new one like everyone else does if they are unhappy with the terms.
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Why aren’t more Deputies commenting on this subject? I want to know where they stand on these sorts of issues. After all, we elect Deputies to sit and create frameworks in which to run the state, but once it’s done where is the ‘opposition’? Surely they have opinions?
How can the electorate come to understand how close their representatives are to being compatable if there is always this ‘fuzziness’ when important ‘political’ events happen such as this one?
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Martyn
You clearly feel you have a better insight than any of the rest of us and are aware of the full facts.
Do tell us what ransom has been paid to ensure the reopening of the airport.
I’m sure all will want to know what the ransom is.
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Eve,whoever etc. etc,
If there was a man amongst them or anyone with a ”pair” they would man a picket line to inform the general public of their grievances,how they are hard done by etc.But instead of telling the public how they are ”mistreated;misrepresented” they lock the gate to a PUBLIC BUILDING,the Airport Fire Station, and hide away.Scared someone from the public might come and tell you what they think of you?
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Justice done, no dispute as ruled throughout this farcical process. It was a pleasure to expose the incompetence of the PSRC as backed up by all the independant reports conducted and ignored!! How many pay groups will now benefit from this? Shame the radiographer had to endure all this on her own and threaten to quit to get heard. All pse groups for a start will benefit, lets not forget a year ago all public services went out, its just unfortunate that the airport has the clout that makes an immiediate impact. Now we are paid approx 10k less than our jersey counterparts but do they get this problem? No, because they value the main life line in and out of their island and to secure this all fireman got an extra 7k as a 3 month limited strike agreement. Pay the rate and you will get the service deserved, nothing in life comes for free. Lets not forget the uk fire strikes not so long back. Fortunately for our town counterparts who were affiliated to them at the time they did not need to support the action as they were going to recieve what ever was awarded. We are our own unit on an island totally isolated and have justly fought for what was right despite the bully boy tactics of an archaic system. So no tribunal as no dispute and all supporters of the psrc are as bad as the department itself. Lets hope your all not as incompetent as they are in your lines of work. As for jackie, i very much doubt you work as you seem to spend all your time spouting c*!p on every single topic. Just to finish as my job is now done wasting my time trying to educate the pork on this site, i would like to clarify that on monday night it was the psrc who left the airport with category 6 in their hands with complete disregard for the public of guernsey. Full credit to the crews who remained on duty to allow all medical cases in and out and to provide emegencey fire cover for all aspects which could of been medical cases within the terminal building. Also to remain an emergency diversional airport and for air search if required. For us to have gone on strike I agree would have been a disgrace as none of this could of been provided compromising the public safety which we have a duty to adhere too. Like i said earlier on to all those who have shown support, thank you very much. To those confused and genuinly unsure of what to think, feel free to call the station and ask to speak to me (geoff) i am positive you will leave with a very clear picture of the facts. And to the GOONS who are clearly stubborn and blinkered in ignoring the fact like the psrc, GET OVER IT!!!!
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Oh by the way, forgot to mention to the poor hard done taxpayer which i am as well. The airport makes its own profits and sustains its own expenditure which our wages come from. By this now being resolved we are now increasing the profits at the airport. Thanks for nothing!!
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http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98100623352
Eve there is another way for those disgruntled souls to redeem themselves, join this group.
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Now that the Fire Fighters have got their 4K are we going to see further disruption with other groups of workers, prompted by union representative Ron Le Cras ?
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Well here we go a £4000.00 payoff for the next 7 months what did i say in my previous post! and further negotions on basic pay.
I say all public employees should have a bonus like this and if not lets get Ron Le Cras to persuad them to strike.
Summer of discontent on its way?
Rubbish piling up on street corners?
Cess pits overflowing?
Leisure facilities closed?
Children not being taught?
how under valued do the Town FF’S feel?
Houses left to burn down?
Who could blame any of the other states depts for taking industrial action now iam sure they would all like an extra £4k till the end of the year.
Lets wait and see…..
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Jim said “The airport is open as is should be. Stephen John says that we should be grateful. Grateful that the firemen are doing the job that they are paid to do – I don’t think so.”
Indeed, Jim, but I think you’ll find that it doesn’t say anywhere that they should go into work on compulsory overtime, a problem due to the poor pay and conditions created by a substandard negotiating team and a States that refuses to acknowledge that without a motivated public infrastructure workforce then this sort of ‘action’ (it is telling that most Guernsey people follow their employers like sheep, only ever grumbling to their colleagues and moving job when the going gets too tough – if ever there was a call for cowardice, it is the private sector worker that has no loyalty to the company or desire to improve the situation from the inside.) will reoccur.
It would be interesting to know how many firefighters holidays have been ruined because of the shoddy negotiators.
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Stephen, your postings on this matter are, like Mrs P says, hilarious. A group of so called ministers has completely caved in to a bunch of bullying militants, while at the same time driving a coach and horses through our system of dealing with public pay demands, and you think everything is tickety boo. Apart from Ron Le Cras and his crowing cronies, you must be the only one out there who cannot see the facts for what they are.
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So Geoff, apart from not believing in either breathing or paragraphs how do you feel about Martini’s idea?
Cut yourselves away from the shackles of the selfish States and run your own fire fighting unit.
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I listened with increasing incredulity to that anachronistic fool Ron Le Cras on RG this morning.
Well done to the caller Sarah who issued him an invitation to volunteer on one of her trips for special needs children and experience first hand the stresses involved (culminating in not being able to get back to the island on Tuesday).
(He didn’t take it up needless to say)
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I am happy that someone has at last had the guts to actually resolve the matter! The States should have sorted it out months ago regardless of who is at fault. I am happy in the knowledge that now when my young daughter needs urgent chemotherapy and other treatment in the UK for her leukaemia, barring a bit of fog, I know I can get her there without any bloody stress! I understand, in reply to The Man, that if there had been a medical emergency there would be no doubt that the firefighters would have covered that flight. I have to say they do have hearts and are human, as they did cover a couple of flights on Tuesday for medical reasons and I thank them for that as we needed desperately to get to Southampton. I am not an airport firefighter and do not know any of them but unless we are actually in their position perhaps we shouldnt be so judgemental! and ultimately their employer, our government, should have sorted this out much earlier!
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Geoff, if you dislike the pay and conditions so much, why don’t you just get another job? Or are you too THICK to get another job?
I hope your attitude in your posts on this forum are not representative of your colleagues, because I am sure that you have gone a long way in persuading the public to lose respect for your cause.
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Martyn
Will you confirm that £120,000 has been spent by the CM and others as a “ransomm” to reopen the airport?
Where is your evidence that a bunch of so called ministers had completely caved in? You clearly know what the deal was but also seem reluctant to spell it out.
The alternative seems to have a closed airport. That is reality.
I note that Mrs P has ignored my questions to her “Did you want the airport to reopen?
If the answer is yes, how would you suggest it would have reopened if Digard / Trott intervention had not taken place.
Were you aware of any other attempts to reopen the airport?”
I wonder why?
I also wonder why people are not grateful / pleased /happy that the airport is now open.
Certainly not an ideal solution, but in the absence of any other way of opening the airport, surely it is a positive.
The alternative of a closed airport doesn’t seem an attractive alternative, especially during half term week.
Seems that if Lyndon Trott did nothing he is dammed. If he does something he is still dammed.
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question to al brouard, when you say that resignations are going to the states for consideration why?? if you’re going ,then just go , you came up against a group of working class people who through exasperation had nothing to lose , not a bunch of bankies who have an extra paper quallie and will now recieve a bonus of twenty grand a year ,you didnt have the experience or the attitude to deal with this and remember that calling them just a bunch of manual workers is not the mindset with which to solve disputes
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Seems from the Radio guernsey web site that the Emergency group has agreed a recruitment and retentiops payment. No details.
I’m surprised that any deal was concluded. If reports are true that the Bailiff had set up an Industrial Tribunal then is it appropriate for side issue agreement to be made at the same time.
My recall is that when the Bailiff set up a tribunal both sides were on best behaviour and did nothing to compromise the outcome.
I can’t help feeling that any retention recruitment package would / should be a matter for an industrial tribunal.
As various posters and different parts of the media are speculating and saying different things perhaps the States will tell us
1 Whether an Industrial tribunal has been set up
2 What are any agreed terms and costings of any agreement made this week.
3 If an agreement has been made how does this retain the integrity of the industrial tribunal both now and in the future?
I have to say that any ex tribunal settlement is a worrying precedent. This assumes a tribunal had been set up.
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Stephen, you should have been listening to Deputy Brouard in the States this morning, outlining exactly how his committee was undermined by a bunch of ministers completely caving in to an outrageous ransom demand.
Deputy Brouard confirmed, in no uncertain terms, that the ransom amount was indeed £4,000 per man, which according to my math (not my strong point but even I can do this one) makes it a total demand of £120,000.
If you have any other questions with blindingly obvious answers I’ll do my best to put you right.
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I still stand by my word: Stand up for what you believe in! well i believe in the firefighters!
I’m Embarrassed to be local and to be talked about in the same sentance as the likes of Jackie, Nat and all you other pathetic people!
Geoff and EMTV have told you the truth yet you seem to know best, well thats fine, maybe you should set up your own forum!
You lot think you have all the answers when clearly you have no idea! your the disgrace not the firefighters!
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I have been advised, although not yet in writing, that the Airport firefighters acted illegally this week and are in breach of their contracts to their employer…the states and ultimately the tax payer. This can invoke claims directly against the individuals themselves from local taxpayers if a genuine financial loss has occured through illegal action. Any one else had this advice?
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“Jackie, Nat and all you other pathetic people”
You mean the majority view? LOL@Vee :)
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Reference the £4,000 payment.
Perhaps the increase could be paid at the end of the year and absenteeism taken into account to calculate how much of the £4K they should get. If an individual has more than 4 separate absences in a calendar year then he/she should forfeit the increase.
Then in a years time I suggest an audit of absenteeism levels over the past three years to determine if they have improved.
Finally can FF be considered professionals in the same category as nurses some of whose pay rates they have now surpassed?
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Striking for a whole day was the wrong way to go about it and did cause the fire-fighters to lose public sympathy. A set 4-hour strike would have cause enough chaos to make a point but would not have been so damaging to the island as a whole. I earn nearly as much as a fire-fighter simply for sitting at my desk all day, yes, we don’t have many emergencies but let’s not forget as you are running from a burning plane they will be running towards it – that deserves a pay rise in my eyes. Let ’s hope the same is rolled out for nurses, police, fire brigade and any others doing essential jobs – as and when they need it. The lesson is – don’t be greedy.
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you lot are just boring now!
kindly move on to the next target!
Jackie: LOL@Vee :O) congratuations you speak text, wonder what your IQ is??? do u spend all your hours of the day on facebook aswell? you and Mrs P are both misinformed about alot of stuff. and as for Mrs P stating its all a load of nonsense, do u know me??? i dont think so! so please in future dont tell me whats nonsense if you have no idea who i am or what i do!
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Vee, It’s amusing that you don’t like it when people make assumptions about you, yet on some of your other posts you are quite happy to make assumptions about other?
As the for the firemen, we they really on £28K as per today’s Press? Seems an awful lot for a job with such few hours as to allow for another job to be held. Perhaps someone from the firemen could post their exact working hours and pay so the public can make their mind up. At present all we seems to get is half the story. At first glance it seems the job must be underpaid, otherwise they wouldn’t be so understaffed.
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Vee……… hello over there in irrational ranting land! You are doing it again, why do you keep answering your own questions?
With regard to your other point, you are right, I don’t know what you “do” so can I have a guess?
I think you are the child of someone that is in charge of a very large, big, yellow, shiny and expensive machine and it lives in a hanger next to the runway. You are on half term holiday and are using your parents internerd connection to argue with grown ups on the interwebs whilst they are out at *work/*strike.
*Delete as appropriate.
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I have been reading all of the comments on here with interest and have refrained from adding to it, up until now. I can’t restrain myself any longer as the incoherent ramblings of Vee have made me LOL!
He/she has the audacity to criticise Jackie for using text speak when he/she is incapable of using correct grammar in their own ramblings and replaces words such as ‘you’ with a single letter. Pot, kettle and black spring to mind. And Vee, before you start criticising my level of IQ for using the phrase LOL, trust me, my IQ far surpasses yours.
And as far as the firefighters go, they should be ashamed of themselves, Deputy Trott should be ashamed of himself and I applaud Al Brouard and the rest of PSRC for trying to do what they are mandated to do i.e. not squander away tax payers money when faced with a group of militant toddlers who have thrown their toys out of the pram.
And congratulations to MR who has just suggested that we give a payrise to nurses, police, fire brigade and other essential workers – where do you think the money is going to come from to cover these payrises???? Thank you for just increasing my taxes even more.
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Martyn
My humble apologies for doubting you, and my thanks for the update on the States.
I have to say the terms agreed by the Emergency Committee? and the manner done, is nothing but daft. it creates a precedent that leaes the taxpayer open to blackmail.
I was so sure no one would be daft enough to undermine the industrial dispute process. Just shows how wrong you can be.
If the Press reports of the comment made by the CM, about the manner in which the bailiff presided is true, then it is something that should not be tolerated.
Surely, such conduct must be investigated as a breach of the Deputies Code of Conduct?
Short term gain means long term pain.
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We’re in the middle of a credit crunch and the black hole’s getting bigger. We have to face the likelihood of increased taxes to cover the shortfall.
Meanwhile the airport firefighters are striking and causing untold misery to hundreds of people.
So what happens…
They’re rewarded with £4,000 each of taxpayers money.
Unbelievable.
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As no-one defending the FF could be honest enough to anwswer any of my questions yesterday it speaks volumes……you want more tell us what, why and how. If you want to stike form a picket line and show us your demands transparently.
Try and justify a strike to this poor lady…..“On a more human level, sadly, one lady could not leave the island to visit her dying mother who passed away while she was in transit.”
For further info please see http://www.ifcfeed.com/articles/detail.aspx?articleid=1823
This one done in the wrong way on all sides…..GetaGrip!
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Martyn
Apologies for doubting you and thanks for the reference to the Staes this morning.
I must say I assumed the return to work was a gesture of goodwill prior to an industrial tribunal. how wrong can you get.
I can’t help thinking this “deal” will be seen in the future as totally daft. Where does it leave the accepted concilliation procedures etc and opens the door to “blackmail”
A case of short term gain leads to long term pain.
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Vee
Is it fair that a family member of mine lost around £200 in hotels and other travel arrangements, as well as 2 days earnings due to the strike?
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hehe i love it that now i am a child?! i’m a 25 year old with my own mind and i speak for what i believe in, i own my own house, i work in finance as i have done for many years and if you dont believe me contact the guernsey press they can give you my personal email and id love to meet up with you Mrs P!
Mrs P, i am simply voicing my opinion, just like you! you believe they are a disgrace, thats fine thats your personal view.
it didnt effect me what happened in the way of getting off the island, and i havent noticed a big dent in my pay slip as of yet, so until i can actually see this money being taken out of my pocket i will keep on defending the Firefighters, as if it ever came to it and god forbid i was in a burning plane over here, i want there to be someone i trust! and i can bet my life so you do!
i will take my hat off to anyone who does that job, the same as the police (which i passed their entry exam), the prison (i passed their’s too) ambulance, A&E, doctors, midwives, all of them because what they do deserves respect! now dont get me wrong had i been due to fly out over the days the airport was closed yes i too would be very disappointed but i understand their view and i support them! are we all going to hang people for supporting in what they believe in? has the island really gone to that level?
i’m not out to argue with people (although earlier up the page i have, yes and i was very angry at the time) i’m simply stating that I thats personal to me, believe that the firefighers are standing up for their rights and good on them!
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Hi Stephen, thanks, and I just want to say that I can now see your previous points too.
I can see where you and today’s press editorial writer and the Chamber of Commerce were all coming from. Yes, you were all right in saying that the CM did indeed achieve a speedy return to work by the strikers. And that if he hadn’t intervened in this way the airport would still be closed.
I guess what I have been trying to say all along is “At what cost?” “At what cost!”
Now we all know the cost, not just in financial terms but in terms of the undermining and ruination of our long established public pay bargaining process! You are so right when you say short term gain = long term pain.
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vee
it didnt effect me what happened in the way of getting off the island, and i havent noticed a big dent in my pay slip as of yet, so until i can actually see this money being taken out of my pocket i will keep on defending the Firefighters,
are you saying if it did effect you then you`d take a different view?
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BCB:
now dont get me wrong had i been due to fly out over the days the airport was closed yes i too would be very disappointed but i understand their view and i support them!
this was in my post from earlier.
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Vee:- You might indeed work in ‘finance’ (doing exactly what I can’t even begin to imagine) but actually I seriously doubt it.
Your words “it didnt effect me what happened in the way of getting off the island, and i havent noticed a big dent in my pay slip as of yet” lead me directly to this conclusion as it certainly affected everyone else I have talked to this week from all walks of life and at all levels of business.
How you have remained so isolated I have no idea but I wish I had been. Personally it has cost my business a fortune, disrupted thousands of lives and ruined Guernsey’s reputation as a destination.
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If the Emergency Powers Committee needed to intervene why didn’t it bring in an emergency law banning strikes, industrial action, bu**ering around etc when an industrial tribunal had been convened.
This could have been introduced in the States with immediate effect yesterday. Introduced without any money being involved.
Listening to Radio G at the moment I have to agree with Sam Maindonald on this catastrophe. Glad she was echoing my earlier short term gain and long term pain comment.
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I just wonder how one of the firefighters would feel if their much needed holiday was delayed or in jeopardy or worse their sick child or relative’s treatment, because of some ‘much needed unavoidable strike action’ get over it enough is enough.
Why not rotate their shifts with the town fire service then at least they might have to work occasionally.
I know they are a service we dearly hope we never need to use,(bit like house insurance),
but they really are taking the biscuit here…
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i have sat here for an hour or more reading all the posts. i have a level head as my role in my career requires it at times of need. why do people resort to attacking others with petty jibes, about grammatical errors, (no doubt loads in this peice) personal innuendoes and other rubbish.
some people are just naturally drawn to jobs of a certain ilk. some would hate an office, others outdoor work etc etc. most who are drawn to the likes of emergency worker are a certain breed. I have not spoken to many in my near twenty years of gainful state employment that have not had a run in with psrc. it didnt matter what brilliance you put forward in the one sided debate, it was shot down with a refusal to negotiate reasonably, most being rewarded with below or well below inflation
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my point is that although psrc may have been good in the scargill times, now in a modern world the refusal to talk or to sit doodling on a pad or even getting up and walking out to negotiate via a third party is outdated childish tactics.
a new scheme of actual negotiation should have been put in place years ago.
as for forcing to tribunal or arbitration so you can turn round to your peers and say this decision was imposed on us we were not to blame Well!!!
i have every sympathy for both sides, over the years countless amounts have been saved/earnt this way, but to what real effect only now in poor economic times will we really see or feel the cost, guernsey never pays top dollar for the goodwill or services it gets, no matter what job is done
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Ah poor f.f i dont think so i dont earn anywhere near 20k and we ars struggling.DISGRACE SACK THE LOT OF THEM.
P S the strike didnt effect me never go away cant afford it.
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martin.
what “long established pay bargaining process” would that be? the process of non negotiable offers. or the process of reducing public sector wages to below the poverty line, or perhaps the process of forcing long serving workers out into the private sector so they can earn a decent wage by working for companies doing work for the states,Sadly though, even if ,the PSRC do resign the Island will still be left with the senior civil servants who instruct them, for they are the real power behind the team. our lesser politicians are only doing as they are told.
I am not a fan of mister Trott but congratulate him on keeping this Island open for buisness
However if a PERMANENT offer is not NEGOTIATED then it will not help recruitment or retention and so we will be in the same position in 12 months time.
This island has developed a massive disparity in wages/salary. all our emergency services should be re/evaluated. not just by comparison with other jurisdictions but with on Island pay levels, so it means higher income tax, its time this Island realised if we want the services we have to pay for them
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“they are out at *work/*strike”
Very funny Mrs P. If they want to act like part timers with second jobs treat them as such. Every time they fall off their window cleaning ladders who picks up the sickie bill?
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Just a thought, if my memory serves me correct the last serious plane crash occurred on the Forest Road, aircraft and house ablaze. Who attended?
Town Fire Brigade.
Is it not correct that if an aircraft crashes off of the airport or its immediate vicinity that the airport fire crews cannot leave the airport because it would then have to close?
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To alan, the only massive disparity in wages/salary I see is the massive disparity between the greedy, selfish, militants at the fire station and all the other public sector workers groups who have chosen not to hold the whole island to ransom and damage Guernsey’s economy in order to secure what amounts to a 25 per cent pay rise when everyone else is getting between half a per cent and three per cent this year. If that isn’t the undermining of our long established pay bargaining process, based on decency, moderation, restraint and gentlemanly conduct, I don’t know what is.
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But Martyn, they haven’t had a 25% pay rise. What are you talking about? They’ve had an incentive to stay working out of their contracted agreement. Would you rather them leave and shut the airport more?
It is people like you that treat the public services with so much disdain that will eventually ruin this island.
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What a total prat Arnald!
Didn’t you mean:
“It is people like Hugh Pugh Barney Magrue that treat the public with so much disdain that will eventually ruin this island.”
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people keep moaning about the tax payers money blah blah, but really what does our taxes go on, i know, people who are popping out children, living in nice homes with big TVs, brand new mobile phones and not working thats what our money goes on, so everyone saying its cost the tax payer X amount due to the airport closing for what a day and a half well think how much a year goes on the people who WONT work! I grew up in a states house, my parents paid their rent unlike people today we were told it was a home for life! yeah right, they sent all the hard workers a letter saying a month and your out and replaced us with young women with about 3 kids who wont work!
The firefighters are normal people, actually they are better than some of the people on this forum! and they deserve to get treated fairly and with a little respect! and clearly no1 is understanding that! they want what is rightfully theirs no? i’m sure you lot WILL correct me, as its clear on this topic the haters are the only ones who are right and all of the rest of us are just people with a voice that no1 wants to listen to! well you lot certainly listened at the start of the week eh!
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To the contrary Arnald. They have received a pay rise in the region of 25 per cent. That is what this 4k payment amounts to and everybody now knows it. It is an incontrovertible fact. A matter of pure maths. The outgoing members of the PSRC have confirmed it. Clearly you have not been following this story and you do not know what you are talking about.
You come across an an apologist for strong arm bully boy tactics by a group of workers that has held this island and its people to ransom. It’s a bit of a cliche, a bit like your own outdated class warrior viewpoint, but there is no better way of describing it.
As for treating public services with disdain that will eventually ruin this island, nothing could be further from the truth. It is they who have treated this island and its people with such disdain.
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Martyn
Whateverr the £4000 is called the fact remains that the basic problem still exists and needs to be sorted – at a significant cost of this weeks incredible happenings are anything to go by.
I have to say I didn’t even conceive that they would have been so daft as to make what amounts to a blackmail payment.
Just a nutty was to do insustrial relations. Totally bonkers.
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Hmm Jackie, well done! So clever!
Martyn
You categorically want people to do the work needed to make your life run more conveniently under poor pay and conditions. I don’t really need to continue with the analysis because it says it all about you, and seemingly the majority of posters here.
If you truly believe that the fire fighters have set out all along to cause misery to the public then you have a dim view of humanity, along with an exploitative nature.
That suit you?
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KEN: your memory doesn’t serve you entirely correctly. The Airport Fire Service were the first on the scene in about two and a half minutes. The crash site was divided into two sectors one being the house fire (dealt with by the Town Fire Brigade as that is their area of expertise) and the second sector being the aircraft and its unfortunate occupants (dealt with by the Airport firefighters as that is their area of expertise).
A lot of people seem to be enjoying belittling the job of an Airport Firefighter with comments about how little they do, that it isn’t a real emergency service and the general feeling I get is a total lack of respect for the job. I totally understand everybodies anger and frustration due to the Airport closure and whole ongoing situation and I no doubt would feel the same if the situation were reversed. For what its worth I can only apologise for that (although I am pretty sure the vast majority will not accept it and want to shove it back down my throat) but please try and show a bit of respect for the actual job itself even if you don’t to the people doing it.
Soon I will try to put together a post detailing the whole story starting from about two years ago when it all started, to hopefully help people understand how and why this whole situation came about. I am not trying to change anyone’s opinion or win support but you may understand why things happend even if you don’t agree with it, as a lot of untrue facts seem to have been reported in the media and on the forums which may be unfairly influencing peoples opinions. If you still feel the same then fair enough.
Lastly, a lot of people have commented on how money has caused us to go back to work and guarantee overtime cover thus meaning that our ‘family values’ argument (although not everybodies argument) is out of the window and we don’t care about time off. This is not the case. As we have said all along we firmly believe that this will help, if not solve, retention problems and as we are now fully staffed (the last two guys return from UK training today) there is unlikely to be much overtime required. Hopefully it will go back to how it was a few years ago when only about one overtime shift a month seemed to come up. A couple of people who were on the verge of submitting their notice to leave have reconsidered so it seems this may have started tosolve the problem already but obviously only time will tell. If we are proved wrong and lots of people have still resigned then at the end of the years cover the payment will not continue.
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Ken
I also seem to remember a very serious fire onboard one of the commodore (or was it huelin renouf) ships that the town fire service were neither equipped nor trained for and so not able to put it out, I seem to remember comments about the heat being so intense the decks were melting the boots of the Airport Firemen.
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SM: thank you for correcting me.
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SM Thanks for saying sorry. That was kind of you.
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What a state.. I’m just discusted
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JESS: No problem at all. The least I can do really. I can honestly say that not one person enjoyed or wanted this situation to happen (contrary to what a lot of people think) it was just a very regrettable end to a very frustrating couple of years and I do genuinely sympathise with anyone affected. (apologies if it sounds hypocritical)
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Be honest Arnald, do you really give a fig about people working under poor pay and conditions? Because the people who really are working under poor pay and conditions are the road sweepers and the hospital ancillaries and the like. The only problem is that they haven’t got the muscle to bring the island’s vital transport links to a halt and, even if they did have that power, they’d probably be too decent to want to yield it anyway.
Our brave airport firefighters, though, fit perfectly into your ridiculous romantic world of class warriors standing up to the lackeys of a morally corrupt finance driven economy (that you yourself benefit quite nicely from by all accounts).
Anyone who dares lay a finger of criticism against these paragons of the socialist struggle are capitalist running dogs or bourgeois revisionists to be despised and castigated roundly.
See, I could write your posts for you, Arnald, and probably make a better job of them, but I managed to get out of the mindset of the Tooting Popular Front when I was still quite young about 30 years ago!
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SM – you say that the AFS is now fully staffed as two more guys have returned from training in the UK. Presumably they have been there for a while and were always due to return now.
Therefore, wasn’t the “issue” about to get resolved in any event, without a new payout? Was there really any need to go on strike this week? (Ron Le Cras may say that there was no dispute, but in m,y book if it looks like a strike and smells like a strike, it is a strike).
I really am intrigued because this is the first I’ve heard about the apparent solution to the understaffing problem – which only emerges when another payout has been made.
If I’ve got the wrong end of the stick, please do correct me.
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People on here are saying we should respect the firemen and the work that they do. They may be overworked and underpaid but why should I care as they showed no respect this week for me, my fellow travellers, people travelling to visit sick/dying relatives or those waiting for tests/treatment from visiting doctors (some of whom I am told will have to wait months for a new appointment). Everyone in life has an important job to do, we all need each other and the firemen need to realise that they are not a special case. They need to grow up and start behaving like adults and maybe then they will get the respect that they feel they deserve.
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TL: Obviously we knew when they were returning from training but this would not have solved the long term issues of retaining staff and encouraging future recruits. As I mentioned we believed that an increase on the basic pay would help if not solve retention problems. If nothing had been done we would be fully staffed now but with no guarantee of overtime being covered whenever it came about and people still leaving at a steady rate. As I said previously two people who had their notice letters written and ready to hand in have decided not to at the moment. We shall have to wait and see if they stay in the long term but at the moment it looks like they will.
JIM: Fair enough I see your point about respect for the Airport Firefighters but like I said people are childishly belttling the job itself and what it entails which I personally don’t think is right (but thats just my opinion). If people don’t want to treat the guys doing the job with any respect then thats up to them. In my time in the job I have rarely seen anybody show any respect to the Firefighters or the job whatever they do whether things have been running smoothly or not. Sadly I think the only way an Airport Firefighter will ever get any respect or appreciation is when he has had to drag someone out of a burning mangled aircraft and even then I would bet it would be shortlived.
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I just wonder if the conduct of the Policy Council seven stands in relation to the Deputies Code of Conduct.
I’m sure that sections 8 and 9 might be relevant.
Members’ Conduct
8. Members shall at all times conduct themselves in a manner which will tend to maintain and strengthen the public’s trust and confidence in the integrity of the States of Deliberation and never undertake any action which would bring the States, or its Members generally, into disrepute.
9. Members shall at all times treat other Members, civil servants and members of the public with respect and courtesy and without malice, notwithstanding the disagreements on issues and policy which are a normal part of the political process.
Both sections 8 and especially 9 seem quite appropriate. Going behind the back of the PRSC is hardly treating them with respect.
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Stephen. Regarding your earlier post concerning Deputies Code of Conduct. 9. Members shall at all times treat other Members, civil servants and members of the public with respect and courtesy and without malice, notwithstanding the disagreements on issues and policy which are a normal part of the political process.
Earlier we heard from Davee May 28th where he supposedly quoted Deputy Al Brouard as calling the firemen “just a bunch of manual workers”.
I would be interested to know if and when this was said. If it was just before the strike was called then that would be a stong reason for it coupled with the meeting held just before the strike being conducted in separate rooms.
Indeed if the above is true then PSRC had to be sidelined as it would have been impossible to move forward otherwise.
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“In my time in the job I have rarely seen anybody show any respect to the Firefighters or the job”
Do you have respect issues or something, was that what attracted you tho the job? Uniforms and tonka trucks?
Take your 30 pieces of silver now SM, but the public despise you – spend it well
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Stephen nobody went behind the back of the PSRC, the temporary agreement had run out, and the Public Services department who are the employers decided to reverse their decision not to renew it in order to get the airport open immediately. The Chief Officer of the PSRC was present when that decision was taken and Deputy Flouquet consulted with the other PSD board members before extending the offer. The PSD also consulted with the Emergency Powers authority who had indicated that should the airport remain closed they would declare an emergency so nobody broke any codes.
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Deputy Jones
I think we shall leave the determination as to whether sections 8 or and 9 of the Deputies Code of Practice were breached to the Review Board.
They will be able at look at all the evidence without fear nor favour.
I note you mention consulting with everyone bar PSRC. I would suggest common courtesy would require them to be told they were persona non grata, before the CM and the PSRC chief executive met the firefighters on Monday 25 May.
The change of mind of the PSD board doesn’t say much for risk assessment of the PSD. More like “Oh Flip, they are going on strike. What shall we do”
Seems the answer was “Change our minds of three weeks ago and pay them what they want”
Giving in to blackmail and creating an environment for industrial anarchy.
But of course you wanted the airport to remain open. we all do. But Deputy Jones, the time to develop Plan B was months ago, not “we Will have a Plan B” in the future.
Steven
Are you suggesting the firefighters struck because they were referred to a manual workers?
If they are so mortally hurt by this comment, think how the public feel about firefighters, who agree to arbitration as part of a deal and then go back on the promise after taking the money.
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Here’s an idea- Give the names of the firefighters to Flybe, Blue Islands and Aurigny who can then ban them all from flying with them for the next 5 years. See how they like not being able to travel when they want to!
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JACKIE: I rest my case. You made that a bit too easy for me to prove my point but appreciated none the less. Off to polish the tonka trucks now in my nicely pressed uniform.
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Everyone continues to moan about the money payed to the firefighters-£120K and continue to criticize the ff but at the end of the day it has taken them 2 1/2 years to get to this point. As others have mentioned, 18 people quit in 3 years-at £30,000 to train each one of them-that has cost the states £540,000 in wasted training and experience not to mention the several thousands having to be paid to the airlines in compensation in the last 12 months. HAd the states been reasonable 2 1/2 years ago then they would have saved the public a lot of money and distress. The states have been using the passengers as a pawn and relying on the ff good will. Their solution to the problem was to offer the ff a pay deal that effectively resulted in a pay cut and saw them on call nearly all their days off. That is not what they or their families agreed to when they signed up for the job. How long were they meant to go on for before reacting. It was very unfortunate that the airport closed but more unfortunate that no one in the states showed some genuine leadership and common sense prior to now.
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Perhaps it would help for people to understand why and how we got to the situation we are in if I explain the whole story from the start about two years ago. To the best of my knowledge the events are in chronological order and factual. This is not an attempt to try and justify any action as I would not expect anyone to change their opinion on that and understandably so also, this is not an attempt to try and buy back support or change people’s opinions of us. This is purely to give our side of the story as honestly as I can in the hope that whatever opinion you come to it will based on the facts.
Click here to read the background.
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Jackie, I am not sure who appointed you Judge, Jury and Executioner, but you certainly do not speak for me as a member of the Guernsey public. Not everyone on the island “despises” the Airport Fire Service in the way that you so obviously do. Shame on you!
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Good afternoon K,
Actually I appointed Jackie and she is doing just fine in her new role.
She speaks for me and everyone I’ve spoken to about this.
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SM
thank you for taking the bother to present the chronological review. It certainly fills in a few gaps in what happened in the last week.
I note you say that firefighters have not had a pay rise for 19 years. i presume that during this time they have had cost of living based wage increases.
I think you will find many regard cost of living based increases as pay rises.
The fact remains you entered an agreement, received money from that agreement and then broke your word.
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This must be the biggest public back lash I’ve ever seen.. I’m very suppried
It’s only an extra fiver from each working man’s pocket. OK they forced and bullied thier way forward on issue to get what they wanted. Was it really such a bad thing to do ?. These are working men who just want a working wage like everyone who work in the on finance industrie get 50+ k per year… no one moans about them…
But come on it’s only goverment money. They will only waist it another way
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I am not sure that any authority vested in you, Mrs P, to make such appointments would be a rational and sensible one.
You and your mentor, Jackie, certainly have no right to invoke such hate speech. Pls note a few small local businesses signed up to the “We hate the Airport Fire Fighters” campaign, sponsored by Jackie and Mrs P, are not entirely representative of everyone in the Island.
No doubt, for you a clear case of a Business scorned. As a hard working professional woman who has had the luxury of fact and reason on this one, I shall tolerate your views and reserve judgements on you or your Business, but remember …there is always more than one side to a story and treat others how you would want to be treated!
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“…treat others how you would want to be treated!” K implores.
Pity the strikers didn’t abide by this little maxim when they so selfishly caused chaos and misery for hundreds of people and dozens of island businesses.
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Has the PSRC EVER delivered a pay agreement which has not been months overdue ?
Do they have any professional training for the job or were they just picked at random from States members perceived not to be on enough committees ?
How does Jersey manage these negotiations ?
Were the firefighters on too low a starting package ? Clearly not if recruiting and retention was such a problem.
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SM, brilliant. Lots of people have been requesting insight from the FF perspective and this gives the public all of the information they require to make an informed decision. I doubt you will sway the like of Jackie etc (I wouldn’t worry about that from reading her unbeleivably unswayable posts) but I am convinced that the reasonable public will now be far more sympathetic to your plight. Thank you for taking the time to educate. I hope people will take the time to read all of your fantastic letter. Will the Editor be printing it in the press? Well done.
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Ron Le Cras peforms the impossible again and walks to Herm.
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