Kaileigh Quentin-Moorman wants the wrecks out of Cobo car park and has launched a Facebook group to keep up the pressure for a solution. (Picture by Tom Tardif, 0796765)
A TEENAGER has launched an online protest against abandoned cars at Cobo.
Kaileigh Quentin-Moorman, 19, set up a Facebook group in response to the ongoing dispute as to who owns the land, which is next to Checkers Xpress.
More than 1,180 people have signed up to the group, which is called ‘Get rid of the abandoned cars at Cobo’.
Miss Quentin-Moorman said it was time something was done about the state and number of abandoned cars in the area.
‘I set up the group after talking about how bad things were to my colleagues at work,’ she said.
‘My boyfriend lives at Cobo and so I use the car park quite a lot to go to the shops and also when I am walking to the beach or the Rockmount.
‘It’s very dangerous. During the summer there are always a lot of children going to the shops to get an ice cream and it’s not going to be very nice if they cut themselves on broken glass or rusty metal.’
She said it was a shame the area had become so ‘ugly’.
‘It’s just not fair on the people who use the car park.’
The dispute over the land started at the beginning of last year when Thomas Holroyd claimed to have acquired it through the purchase of the Fief de Carteret from his mother, Kathleen.
Boulders blocked access to the car park and soon after these were moved, cars were abandoned there.
Cobo resident Jade Attwooll, 18, has signed up to the Facebook group.
‘Whenever I want to go to the shop I can never park and the area is unsafe,’ she said. ‘It’s ridiculous that nothing can be done and I think it’s just very selfish.’
Cobo Tearooms proprietor Steve Lasenby hoped some good would come out of the Facebook protest.
‘I would love to see it sorted out because it’s causing so many problems,’ he said.
‘Not only do you have the practical problems with people not being able to park, but also there are the visual effects and the danger aspect.
‘This Facebook group just demonstrates how many people feel strongly about it and it can only help.’
Castel constables and douzeniers said that something was being done to solve the problem, but they could not say what that was at this stage.
Article posted on 29th June, 2009 - 1.00pm
36 Article Comments
It seems rather strange that this dreadful business of abandoned wrecked cars is allowed to carry on-
It would seem as if that old saying is still running: “One for the rich another for the poor”
At wars end, the Army backed by politicians, couldn’t get together fast enough; all the old German equipment, then dump it in the Hurd deep:
Well why can’t they now do the same with all these old motor vehicles?
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“Rush to sign up to Student Bob’s “Proper journalism please!” group.
By Student Bob.
A LOCAL STUDENT has launched an online protest against his local newspaper trawling Facebook to fill column inches.
Student Bob, 12 1/2, set up a Facebook group in response to the ongoing trend to create news stories based on the opinions of teenagers posting on the popular social networking site Facebook.
Mr Bob said it was time something was done about the state and number of news stories gathered from this resource.
‘I set up the group after complaining about how bad things were on an online forum run by the newspaper’, he said.
‘It’s very dangerous. Pretending that the mostly ill-informed, barely literate rantings of teenagers is news or should be considered in any way ‘factual’.’
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Student Bob – I am not generally an advocate of the GP’s quality of journalism, but I don’t understand your gripe in this instance. This is a real story that has previously vexed people on this forum. It is a real issue for the island, its tourism and the general ability of us all to enjoy that stretch of the coast (including the vital pleasure of getting fish & chips and sitting on the sea wall in the evening at this time of year). Any action that can be taken to bring this problem to a head is to be welcomed and is worth reporting.
I think describing Kaileigh as ill-informed and barely literate is also a gross insult. She obviously cares about this island and is to be appluaded – all too often our youth are demonised for not taking enough care.
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I’m with Student Bob, this is not a story. Anyone who is aware of Facebook knows that there is a group for EVERYTHING. Will the press follow all these ‘groups’? At best it deserves a small mention within a proper story about the issue.
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To start calling names about people, whether right or wrong is a sign of a bad education; or because they want their name in print.
Personally I think that KAILEIGH achieved, even perhaps beyound her hopes, in her message.
The reason I say that is because it is being discussed, always a good sign.
Now as to the affair of this disgracefull way of disposing of old wrecks:
Would it not be a simple method of taking photographs of the cars, then printing them and asking the public to recognise who had been the owner. You won’t get all answered but maybe some may come to light.
To ask the former owners to own up is a wish long ago forgotten these days.
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To be honest I haven’t followed these stories that much and I am sure this question has come up before. If I get a parking ticket the police seem to be able to track me down. Why can’t they do the same with these cars?
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The police can track you through the number plate and the DVLA unfortunately i think most of the numbers plates have been removed or are badly damaged and missing numbers
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Also, if the owner of the land has the cars registered to him then they cannot do anything as it is like parking in your drive-way…. just a thought.
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If the former “Beauties Committee” were still going, then this would have indeed been a case for them.
If it is private land, that is no reason to have a “Graveyard of cars”
If it is Public land then it is the duty of the official bodies to redeem any respect people MIGHT have for them.
What ever It’s disgusting;
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even if the cars are abandoned and not owned by the landowner, if the landowner is happy for them to be there then the police can do nothing about it.
what I do not understand is how there can be any doubt as to who owns the land. Mr Holroyd claims that he bought it in 2007 – where is his conveyance?
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This is an example of how far this island has devolved in the past generation. We, including government, appear to live in fear of litigation which gives air to every chancer that this island creates or imports.
An example of how far this has gone might be the great idea that the Buskers will be performing is St Peter Port. One day the good news story. The next dayit is announced that each performer must pay £200 for Public Liability Insurance. What’s that for? In case someone trips over a collection hat?
These are two good examples where fear of litigation has a direct effect on the well being and day-to-day movement of islanders going about their normal business.
Somehow, someway, the public of Guernsey need to be handed back control of its island and its ‘justice’ system.
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Hear hear! Neil Inder especially your last paragraph.
The idea of ruling other peoples dates back from when the Romans left Britannia; then came the Saxons,.
Since then their itching has never stopped.
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Nice work Student Bob, are you a ‘thedailymash.co.uk’ fan?
This story just tells me that 1,180 Facebook users have joined a group that will most likely achieve nothing.
Why don’t the States just take the cars away for the cost of a ‘Terry Lamond’ £50 trespassing fine? Eyesore and hazards gone. Or is that too easy?
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I have been told that the land is private therefore the police arent allowed to go and remove the cars, the guy has been told by the IDC that he’s not allowed to do anything with the land and checkers wont pay rent for the spaces, so the guy cant make any money off the land or do anything with the land, i think he’s making a statement here, rather than just having a load of old bangers there.
you have to admit you too would be annoyed. now dont get me wrong i dont really like driving past and seeing that and i live at Cobo so believe me it annoys me too, but it really doesnt annoy me to the point where id go to the press and say iv set up a facebook page about it as whats that going to do? nothing, will the states let this guy use the land for his use NO, are the police going to remove the cars NO! so nice idea for her to do it but i dont see the point myself.
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Why don’t someone just get them dumped, its not like it costs anything, you fill out a form n take it to Frossard House who then send you a bit of paper to hand in when you dump it…
Surely the police would be able to swing getting this done without having the paperwork i.e. the log book???
It seems people like to sit and moan about how its spoiling this that and the other but won’t actually do anything about it…something that is free…and I’m sure there is a tow truck driver that is probably saying how much of a disgrace it is down there….well go down and move them for us for free
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Anon – you try and get the authorities to take away a car that you don’t own from land that you don’t own. They won’t do it.
If I owned my own tow truck I would be tempted to mount a public protest and move them myself and wait for Mr Holroyd to sue me for damages if he can show that he has suffered any loss. But I don’t own a tow truck and I think that buying one just for that purpose is probably going a bit far…
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I’m not sure that everyone has grasped what is going on here
Mr Holroyd’s mother ( somehow )owned the land for many years and was happy to let the public park on it for shopping and beach going.
Someone at some stage must have spent money on laying tarmac on the area.
Mr Holroyd then purchased the land from his mother and set about negotiating a rental agreement with the businesses in the area so that the public could continue to park there
When the shop owners wouldn’t bite someone arranged for large boulders to be placed across the car park entrance. Someone else removed these boulders which led to many of the parking spaces being taken up with old bangers. That someone might well have been Mr Holroyd but others may have taken advantage of the situation to leave their own wrecks there
The problem for the authorities seems to be that Mr Holroyd has good title to the land having purchased it via a Court registered conveyance
Unless that conveyance can be shown to be at fault it appears that Mr Holroyd only has to sit back and wait for the shopkeepers ( or the parish or the States ) to make him a suitable offer for the use of his land
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Just been down to the West coast tonight. More dumped cars every time I go there. It’s really bad. And a number of the dumped cars down there do have identifiable number plates on [or at least they did a few hours ago] so what is the problem with tracing the last registered owners?
Not advocating this, but what if a group of drunken ne’er-do-wells did decide to bounce / push a few of these eyesores onto the public highway? Would action be taken then or would we have to manoeuvre around them for the next few months until Holroyd proves whatever case he thinks he has? Shameful.
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Fin
We had a car dumped on our land a few years back. Due to data protection the police could not give me the owner’s name. And as it was on private land the police could not intervene.
I asked the police if the car magically rolled out on to the highway one night would they then intervene; the answer was yes because a) it was blocking a public highway and b) would unlikely to be taxed or insured on a public highway. Since then I’m reasonably sure Home Department announced some closure of this legal impasse at the beginning of the year, but I don’t remember the details.
If you did bump those cars on to the highway the police would probably be involved with removing them at the expense of the public purse. Two days later I am sure the cars would be replaced with new wrecks.
My Holroyd vs the Catel Parish seems to be a game of who blinks first.
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Neil – interesting stuff. Data protection indeed! How come all these “protective” measures which the legal boys keep dreaming up seem to discriminate against the injured party?By the way, how did you get your matter resolved in the end?
Also it would be helpful if someone from the Home Dept could come on here and tell us if/how the legal impasse has been closed. Might that offer some insight into how things could be moved forward – though I share your concern that removing the present vehicles might only see them replaced.
Is the Holroyd dispute just about the tarmac car park area adjacent to Checkers or does it also involve the stoned up areas of land further along and next to the Chinese take away? There are cars dumped there now too [where the jeep was burnt out recently and where Mr Ferbrache had his set to with Mr Paint]. If that area falls outside the alleged Holroyd Estate then surely different rules might apply.
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“By the way, how did you get your matter resolved in the end?”
I kicked the plates off and got it dumped privately.
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Has anyone noticed the cars and vans parked on the cobbled area at the salarie?.
they have been there for months and never get moved. Most belong to a guy who buys and sells them.(He`s made it into his own little busness)
I know some of the guys from down there have complained many times but nothing is ever done about it and it`s public land.
The authority`s are just not interested.
Surely there must be some law against this?
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Fin
Somewhere along the line Human Rights and Data Protection have been conjoined. An example might be, if you can be bothered to read it is, the following PDF
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt200708/jtselect/jtrights/72/72.pdf
I’m unsure that the John Humphreys started the drafting of the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights had in mind the protection of fly tippers in my garden.
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Fair play to him I say…
If you want to lay blame, then have a go at the surrounding businesses… They are refusing to pay rent, yet expect their patrons to be allowed to park on private land for free so they can make money!!
If you owned a field & someone put a supermarket next to it – would you be expected to give up your field so people can park there for free? The supermarket is laughing as they make money on every car parked there – you however get nothing…
If I was the land owner I would do exactly the same & in fairness I think most people would…
So – if you want to lay blame – blame the surrounding businesses or the States…
Why the States? Cos they are useless & ruining the island & they are at fault for most things so 1 more wouldnt hurt!!
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Firstly i would like to say that i didnt contact the press they got in touch with me!!!!
also i am not some teenager just having a rant!!
i wanted to know what people thought and so that i could get in contact with the environement department!!
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Neil – Went to the conclusion first – 66 pages was a bit much to contemplate on a warm day! And so it seems that that particular review body concluded that they’d like to tighten up rules on the release of data. This will give us even less chance of getting something sorted as the police are forced to pull the shutters down even firmer when asked for help (assuming that we slavishly follow the UK here which sadly seems to be the norm). And this all flows out of UK Government cock-ups with regard to inadvertant loss and/or publication of personal data. They mess up; everyone else suffers.
Whatever John Humphreys had in mind in 1948 is getting seriously screwed up now that the lunatics are paid consultants to the folks who haven’t a clue what goes on outside the asylum they’re supposed to be in charge of.
WHB – staggering admission. You’d have cars abandoned if you owned the land and you reckon most people would? Wouldn’t the better way be to speak to the users of your land and agree terms for continued use. Your option wouldn’t provide you with much rent.
And I don’t think that the local businesses are making money on every car parked there. A number of them appear not to be awaiting the return of their drivers with bags of heavy shopping.
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Fin – if you actually bothered to read my comment, you would see that I said I dont blame him following the surrounding businesses refusal to pay rent.
Of course if I owned the land I would have a meeting with the businesses – just like this guy did – if they refuse to play ball then why should a land owner sit back & watch them make money out of people that park on their land for free?!
I personally would not go down the route of abandoning cars there due to environmental & safety issues – I would however find a way to stop people parking on my land.
I would say that the owners of Checkers, Cobo Village Stores & Cobo Chip Shop have had it very good over the years – its not the land owners fault they have no parking outside them!
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Just noticed a parking sign limiting a stay of one hour.These cars must be racking up fines daily? has anyone out there ever been fined for parking there.
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Bonney
Your first post – “If I was the land owner I would do exactly the same & in fairness I think most people would…”
Your second post – “I personally would not go down the route of abandoning cars there due to environmental & safety issues”
Which is it then?
Also – “its not the land owners fault”.
Is it proven who actually is the land owner? Surely simple enough for Mr H to provide a copy of his conveyance if he has one.
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I’m with WHB on this one.
If I moved into your house without permission because it was more convenient for work are you all seriously saying you wouldn’t have a problem with this??
Yeah… right….
There’s no difference here, Mr Holroyd owns the land. You and the shops don’t yet you still want to use if for free??!
The obvious solution here is for the shops to pay a fair market rent to Mr Holroyd. So rather than chastising a guy who simply wants to earn a bit of cash for the land he owns, why not direct this considerable ire towards the tight-fisted shopkeepers who have allowed this situation to develop in the first place.
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Barr Saunders .. are you suggesting that Mr Holroyd should post a copy of his conveyance on this site to prove his ownership?
A quick visit to the Greffe between 2-4pm weekdays will get you the information you need from the publicly available documents.If he doesn’t own it I’m sure this problem would have been cleared up long ago.
donkeys life .. if there is a disc parking sign there it suggests that the States believed they owned the land at some stage. Perhaps THEY sold it to Mr Holroyd’s mother ?
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Just because you sold or bought something does not mean you actually had or have the title to that item.
I could buy a car from someone who did not actually own it and get caught out.
Property is no different. You like to think that you had right to title or that you were getting right to title. But it depends on the accurancy of the existing documentation to prove that point.
My understanding is that this has not been proven that it was land owned that could be sold by the person selling it etc. Until proven title is confirmed then I personally do not assume that the land is owned by Thomas Holroyd.
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If I was Mr Holroyd I would clear all the abandoned cars and start up a wheel clamping business on the land.
After a few hundred cars had to pay £60 each to have the clamps removed I doubt they would be too quick to use the businesses in the surrounding areas again.
After a demonstration like this the surrounding businesses would soon see a huge drop in their takings. They would then be happy to sit down and come to a reasonable conclusion with the land owner.
I have been informed the dispute did not arise purely from a rental point of view. The area needs to be resurfaced and the surrounding businesses did not wish to involve themselves with this cost.
Why should Mr Holroyd for the benefit of mainly the businesses and the general public?
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Ray
Just to clarify your 2:37 posting. If one wished to pop into the Greffe they would need to look up the details of Mrs Holroyd not Mr.
The land changed hands through the fief de Carteret.
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This matter is a bit like a punch and judy show.Do you really mean you can park your old car on someones land,create an eyesore and a public danger,and nobody can do anything about it.”Rouse up Sirs,give your brains a racking,to find the remedy we’re lacking,or sure as Saints,we’ll send you packing”
And well done to that young lady for putting the cat amoung the pidgeons!
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Ray
No.
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