Legal highs such as Spice can still bought via the internet, but their use has led to the island having to pay out £400,000 for off-island treatment for those who have encountered problems. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 0863966)
SENDING local legal high users for treatment in the UK has cost taxpayers more than £400,000 so far this year.
The figure was revealed after Health and Social Services minister Hunter Adam launched a scathing attack in the States yesterday on retailers who sold the drugs to islanders.
‘Legal highs damage young people’s brains, yet people see fit to sell these things,’ said Deputy Adam.
The department had seen a significant increase in people being referred for treatment because of them, he said.
Health has funded treatment in the UK and incurred expense in providing on-island care for people who have used legal highs. Although the department released no exact figure, Deputy Adam referred to around 30 people.
‘People’s impression that if something has the word “legal” on it then it is safe is wrong,’ he said.
‘They can be extremely harmful. They cause medical problems among the young people who use them. We have limited resources for this group and so several have been referred off-island.’
The department later said that £190,000 was spent on UK-based treatment for adult users of legal highs, while £220,000 was spent on users under 18 years of age.
It would not reveal the number of people involved.
It is understood individual cases can cost up to £100,000.
A spokesman said that while the use of legal highs was an outstanding factor among those adults sent for treatment, some of them might have also abused illegal substances.
It is thought that the young people sent for treatment had generally not had exposure to illegal substances.
As well as those sent to the UK, the department has seen ‘many more’ as outpatients requiring intensive treatment on-island.
The department spokesman said: ‘We have no doubt that the use of legal highs is an increasingly prevalent factor associated with the presentation of psychosis in young adults.
‘We are therefore very keen to support any proposals to ban the use of legal highs.’
Commercial imports of legal highs have already been banned, but people can still order them via the internet for personal use.
Customs officers monitor what is being imported.
Home Department minister Geoff Mahy has already spoken in support of banning legal highs, something that could happen within two years, depending on progress in the UK.
Article posted on 29th October, 2009 - 2.30pm
66 Article Comments
And the cost of treating those addicted to alcohol, cigarettes and food is…?
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nahhhh myte dat is a loud of rubish ma mytz bn doin um for ages n he aint got noffin wrong.
Just thought I’d get in there first before the “Pro-Legal-High” Team come along and tell us how safe these drugs are…
Where did you study medicine and what grades did you get?
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St Peter, I don’t think anyone is saying legal highs are safe. I’ve never heard that argument.
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If there has been a drastic increase in spending in this area then I thing a ban is inevitable and probably sensible.
BUT, Hunter Adam does not mention an increase, he merely attacks ‘legal highs’ for their own cost. I think it would be fair for him to give us some ‘before and after’ costs and number of cases.
@St Peter
What is your point exactly, and where did you study?
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Legal Highs?! Again?!
Not to worry though, there was, after all, a fantastic article in Human Psychopharmacology last month regarding long-term cannabis and cannabinoid (Spice and its ilk) use. To summarise, the researchers concluded that there simply is not enough evidence to postulate on the long term effects of cannabis or cannabinoid use, and that any anxiety etc suffered by vulnerable users is most likely due to the vulnerable nature of the user rather than the drug. Duh.
Extrapolating this, boffins say that vulnerable people are going to abuse something and feel paranoid. Better that it is Spice than alcohol, tobacco or Mars bars.
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400k!!!!!!! – one could of staged the world Kabaddi, (sometimes written Kabadi), tournament in Guernsey with this gross sum of cash. I’m off to count to 10, (very angry!), and tag as many of my co office workers as possible – kabaddi, kabaddi, kabaddi…
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I must admit, I’m fed up with my taxes being used to constantly subsidise other peoples stupidity.If people want to experiment with these substances, and I include alcohol and tobacco then fine, but I fail to see why I should be expected through my taxes to constantly bail them out.There are more than enough health warnings,reports etc… out there.
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Hi Darlings!
In addition to the main baddies of the story – alcohol and tobacco, the serious health implications of which are of far more consequence than ‘legal highs’ (urrrrghhhhh I really hate that label) will ever be. Don’t forget about caffeine.
Let’s over sensationalise your morning cup of Java shall we Daily Mail style and just go for the medical issues for problem users:-
“…………….nervousness, irritability, anxiety, tremulousness, muscle twitching (hyperreflexia), insomnia, headaches, respiratory alkalosis, and heart palpitations. Furthermore, because caffeine increases the production of stomach acid, high usage over time can lead to peptic ulcers, erosive esophagitis, and gastroesophageal reflux disease.”
Obviously quoted from wikipedia, though I welcome any comments from Student Bob if he has a more medically accurate synopsis of the burden that Dix Neuf’s customer’s are placing on the tax payer.
They should be ashamed of themselves, they’re selling a product that gives you heart palpitations!!!!!!!!!!
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£400K a year!!! I can think of alot better things to spend the tax payers money on!! Ban legal highs as that is a joke!!!
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Dean
You mentioned that Hunter Adam should give us some ‘before and after’ costs.
If you apply simple logic then you will find the before cost was zero.
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Get your facts right before you open your mouth scare mongering should be a crime What about ALCOHOL dose more dammage than any legal High.
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beaufort|
Don’t fret yourself. The tax collected from alcohol and tobacco sales covers the financial costs of the unfortunates who suffer ill effects of them. More of a concern are the social costs aka domestic abuse cases fuelled with alcohol.
My posts on this subject however should not be construed as pro legal highs. They most certainly are not. My own life is being negatively affected by a third parties abuse of them.
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Since I can’t hold my breath, I was always the last to be picked during double Kabadi at school on wednesdays.
There has to be more to it than £400K = Spice Expense To Taxpayer.
How many were poly-addicts? How many were already known to have coping problems? What’s the year on year costs? Squak?
Anyone know Vurt?
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MrsPantry
Someone Who Isn’t Me suffered badly on stopping their tea fix. Lasted days, they said.
The marketing of colas to children is one of those Bad Things. Can’t remember the stats, but the addiction threshold is frightening low.
I suggest, for problem users of any chemical, an enforced spell wearing boxing gloves.
And then get them all in a line on stage like The Generation Game and watch them ‘roll’ a ‘Fat One’. The opportunities for hedge funds cannot be ignored. With massive returns, why ban it?
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We need a ban and a ban now. Is is not just about cost it is about the damage these harmful drugs are doing to some youngsters. I understand that one needs to be 18 to buy and use these drugs but it seems that is being flouted and at a cost. If we had a rehab centre here in Gsy then the cost implications would be far less, this coupled with making all legal highs illegal, sending to prison the dealers and confiscating the dealers gains from dealing. I feel for those youngsters and their families for the hell they must have and are going through. It is about time the problem was made public for all to see because so much is swept under the carpet.
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Caffeine might give you palpitations, but generally won’t send you into a (possibly permanent) psychosis Mrs Pinthepantry. Many of the legal substances like alcohol, sigarettes and caffeine can be harmful to someone’s health, but at least people are aware of this (and the long term effects) when using them. Problem with legal highs is many youngsters do still think it is safe because they are legal and so easy to get hold of. Hopefully Guernsey will soon follow the many other countries (incl UK) and make these legal highs illegal, thereby making it harder for youngsters to buy them.
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A ban on usage is ’sweeping under the carpet’ the issues as to why it is so easy for these people to drop out of a small society.
There is already a ban on under 18s. We couldn’t police that. Now users will get criminalised.
I truly cannot imagine any parent of a minor not being able to tell when their child has been smoking, in the early days before a habit (is it addictive? is there proof? is marijuana addictive? does it cause mental ill-health? Is there ANY creditable science behind these wild claims?).
These changes in personality in youngsters does NOT happen overnight. Children ought to be protected from danger by responsible adults. This kind of legislation just assumes that everyone is irresponsible.
Are we? Are you irresponsible, Pete Burtenshaw?
You can’t be trusted not to give drugs to kids, that’s what you’re telling me.
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I really can’t see how any ban will work. There are far too many substances to ban all of them, and chemists will just come up with a suitable tweak to get around the ban.
What would be far more constructive would be some decent research and education to warn youngsters of the danger of all drug use, whether heroin, spice, cannabis, glue, alcohol etc. It’s completely obvious that prohibition doesn’t work when we have deaths from suspected overdoses and a prison full of drug offenders (which is always going to happen when strict drug laws cause an artificially high “street” price, which in turn gives more incentive to import drugs).
Kids will get hold of drugs whether they are legal or not. Surely we’re better off trying to persuade them from experimenting in the first place?
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Pete Burtenshaw – What exactly are you going to ban?
Pass a the law this afternoon and by tomorrow morning there will be a new set of chemicals being sold not covered by it.
What will that have achieved Pete?
People will then be using compounds with even less known about the long term effects. So in effect people like you will be responsible for the drugs being sold becoming increasingly dangerous as the tit-for-tat new product>banned product process goes on over time.
Is that what you want Pete? because that’s what will happen.
Now where’s my bK-DMBDB powder?
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There is a obvious reason why Guernsey, a small and not well known island is now being made out to be the island of legal highs.
The laws in Guernsey are outrageously strict and over the top. If you make the penalty on purchasing/being in possession of cannabis so ridiculously high then people will look elsewhere for that high i.e. legal highs.
How can you expect young people to listen and obey the government when drugs like tobacco and alcohol are and always have been legal and readily available in Guernsey yet if you get caught with 1 gram of cannabis and soon to be legal highs you will be given a penalty worse than if you were to get done for DUI, GBH, aggravated assault, criminal damage, shop lifting and much more. Go figure.
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@Steven
Perhaps I wasn’t clear in my previous post. Cost of Rehab before the introduction of legal highs, cost after. For instance compare costs from the whole of this decade (year on year to see if there is a sharp rise.
@Pete Burtenshaw
Question, do you think the ban will stop young people getting involved with drugs?
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These problems arise in part from the prohibition of a plant that has grown naturally and been cultivated all over the world for hundreds, (and there is I believe some evidence to suggest thousands) of years. How can you ban nature? To quote one the 20th century’s brightest thinkers “It’s like saying God made a mistake”.
If you outlaw something that a lot (and I mean A LOT) of people are very keen on, they will look elsewhere for a substitute, and start smoking potentially dangerous, foul tasting, smelly, overpriced and untested substitutes.
Prohibition will solve nothing, but will instead, as has already been heralded many times on this site, instigate the use of ever more dangerous and unknown substances.
People always have and always will get high, and if you think for one second that legislation and prohibition will have any significant effect on this, then you are not living in the real world, so please ask yourself this: what are we actually trying to achieve here?
Why is the thought of people not drinking their drugs so offensive to some people?
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I’ve been told they are sending these people to the Priory. Typical Guernsey to pick the (probably) most expensive rehab cos it’s famous! No wonder it cost so much!
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What are they addicted to? Do you not think that these stories are just hot air propaganda to stir up Pete Burtenshaw?
It should be in the public interest to know what chemicals are involved in someone’s addiction that necessitates the Priory. Certainly a lot of boozers have been there.
There was another story today “stole for drink, legal highs”. Why isn’t booze being banned?
If it said “stole for mum’s birthday present” would it make any difference?
Just outside my house there is a trail of vomit. The walk down to where I need to be is strewn with cans, broken bottles and half finished take-away containers. It’s the same most days. Today there was more vomit at the bus stop. I would imagine a very high percentage of the crimes published (if name and shame worked wouldn’t there be a reduction in crime? has there been?) in the GEP would not have occurred/been as serious without the booze.
No one wants kids getting brainfried. It’s this rank refusal to see where the problems really are that makes this look petty.
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I agree fully with missy and Danlobster.
The Observer (i.e. Guardian newspaper Sunday edition) did an excellent article on legal highs circa 3 weeks ago and it scared the daylights out of me hearing how Spice and other legal highs were made, spraying innocuous herbs with all sorts of damaging chemicals.
That said, I don’t think anything should be banned. Free will and choice should always prevail. Guernsey’s legal and political system are an anachronism and outdated.
The island is going down the pan and politicians etc would just love to blame things like legal highs etc, when it’s their lack of investment into the community and lack of planning and foresight that has left the island in dire straights.
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Pete B has got it right, ban the lot. It’s a small island lets keep it clean. You can ban the commercial importation of these legal highs but can someone please find the local people who are also making up these concuctions and selling it to my child?
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Danlobster, well said.
@Arnald, you make a good point about the story featured in the press today. It stated that the person involved had many underlying mental health issues, however the headline points to substance abuse. This just give more ammo to the Daily Mail brigade.
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missy
“yet if you get caught with 1 gram of cannabis and soon to be legal highs you will be given a penalty worse than if you were to get done for DUI, GBH, aggravated assault, criminal damage, shop lifting and much more. Go figure”.
I`m not sure where you get your info from but it sure is news to me esp the GBH.
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There’s a lot of sensible comments here, and there’s Pete Burtenshaw.
Wise words DanLobster, people will always want to get ‘tweaked’, whether it’s alcohol, tobacco or drugs. Spice, in the overwhelming opinion of medical researchers, is the safest of the lot.
I’ll say now that I’m a medical student and I read A LOT of medical journals. There is currently NO evidence to show a physiological addiction to Spice or other legal highs. The only addictive cases have been psychological. The people who are likely to become psychological dependent on Spice are the vulnerable people I referred to earlier, and, like DanLobster says, if they’re not dependent on Spice, they’ll be dependent on something worse. Is that really what we want??
I think the real story here is how HSSD spent that much money on rehabilitation for 30 ‘addicts’!!! What’s that… about £13k each?!
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Student bob, I also read a lot ref pharmaceuticals and you are absolutely right in what you say.
Mum, how come your child has disposable funds for making these purchases and do they have false ID in order to buy?
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I think Student Bob is being a little unfair to Pete Burtenshaw. In essence, Pete is absolutely right – these highs should be made illegal, and processes put in place to make the problem ‘policeable’ with follow up support for those who you refer to, i.e. your inevitable addicts of something.
To suggest that someone who is likely to be an addict of something might as well be allowed to get on with being an addict of legal highs is naivety on your part.
I accept that your medical journals might not contain details of the social effects of legal highs, but you do need to accept that there is much much more to this than the medical impact on the user.
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TM – from a medical perspective, alcohol and tobacco deserve to be banned well before legal highs.
If the research is anything to go by, the 30 ‘addicts’ we spent £400k rehabilitating would be in a significantly worse condition if they had been indulging in equivalent quantities of alcohol or tobacco.
You may call it naivety. I call it realistic. People will want to get ‘altered’. I believe that we have a moral obligation to make sure that people do this in the safest way possible, which, unfortunately for Daily Mail readers, is with legal highs.
Sadly, as we can see from the resignations of the UK Government drug advisors, the decision to ban substances is not a medical decision, but a political one. Who do you trust with your health? Your GP or your deputy?
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Truth man.
I dont thing Student Bob is being in the least bit unfair to Peter Burtenshaw. Based on Mr Burtenshaw’s previous letter to the paper and above comments, I find them rather narrow minded and not very well researched. Mr Burtenshaw does not want to look at the bigger picture.
There is a large number of professional adults who like to smoke herbal incense,I believe it is their right to chose how to live their lives in the privacy of their own home.
Having just found an empty bottle of bacardi in my underage daughter’s room, I realise that there are always gonna be some idiots who purchase things for underage kids, this is the real problem not the shopkeepers who are very strict on ID.
I would like to see exact figures released by the Board of Health as to how many people have been admitted to A and E this year suffering from effects of legal highs and how many people have been admitted from the effects of alchohol.
I would also like to know how much smoke per week qualifies as an addiction and also how these kids afford it? I believe it is £30.00 per packet.
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Bob
I agree with all of your posts on this subject except for one.
IMO the safest way to get “altered” is original unaltered Cannabis, but we all know what happens when you get caught with that in Guernsey.
The general ignorance that surrounds substance use/ abuse never fails to amaze me, time and time again cannabis is proven to be safer than alcohol, tobacco and even prescription drugs like codeine and barbituates.
But hey, sod the millions spent on research by qualified scientists, lets beleive the politicians and Jeremy Kyle who would have us beleive that one puff equals a life of misery.
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I’m old so perhaps I don’t really understand the arguments about which is the safer substance to ‘alter’ yourself ,legal highs or cannabis and ecstasy etc
By turning it into an example of car use I can understand that driving up the Grange at 60mph is stupid and driving up the Grange at 70mph is even more stupid
Does it really matter which is safer if they are BOTH dangerous and cost the taxpayer hundreds of thousands while we try to get them re-altered back to normal
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Ray
I understand what you are saying but to use your analogy here is what is legal and illegal in Guernsey.
Driving up the grange at 25- Illegal (Cannabis)
Driving Up the grange at 35- Illegal (Legal Highs)
Driving Up the grange at 60- Legal (Tobacco)
Driving Up the grange at 75- Legal (Alcohol)
Make sense of that if you can!?!?!?!?!
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To follow on from The Man
Flying up the Grange at light speed – maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan (Absorption of the personality into the sum of all existence then, now and potentially ([insert unified theory delivery system here])
There’s nothin I like more than a quick bang on some DMT when i get to the filter at the top. So many choices. Rohais? Queens? Brock?
Driving down the grange at banana miles a jerkin – Jam (bloney Imps!)
Get it, huh?
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It’s a sad day indeed when politicians think they know better than scientists / experts.
We’ve seen it happen in the UK (which has an indirect effect on Guernsey seeing as though we tend to mirror the UK’s drug classification, although not 100%) and we’ll probably see it happen here.
Our right wing moral crusaders will not let the facts get in the way of their authoritarian tendencies. They’ll still be quaffing their port and their malt whilst denigrating those who simply choose a different (and safer) way of altering their state of mind.
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The Man – great answer! Agree 100% it’s a disgrace.
The liquor filled yobo’s who, week after week, shout abuse at everything and anything, vomit in the streets, urinate in the streets and commit crimes such as assault and criminal damage every weekend, the government don’t bat an eyelid. Yet when people decide they’d quite like a quiet smoke of weed without causing the slightest bit of trouble they ban, then people seek a legal alternative and what happens? It is immediately their top priority to ban it and everything that goes with it.
If the happiness-haters in charge are so adamant on doing something they could at least keep legal highs or cannabis legal and regulate/tax it so then at least the people of the island can make some profit from it!
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The Man- I agree!!!! However, cannabis is increasingly illegal and legal highs are, well, legal… If you want the safest, legal hit then, until they legalise cannabis, it’ll be a legal high.
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Surely one MASSIVE issue has been totally overlooked here-to ban-not to ban-free will or no free will. Lets try and tackle the issue as to why they are doing it in the first place? A chunk of that £400k should be used to educate youngsters and try and give them a balanced and open view of the pro’s and con’s of taking any of these substances, ciggies and booze included.
Banning will lead to rebellion and the uprising of Al Capone like figures – prohibition does not work – simples. Lets educate, re-educate and then educate again – and none of the softly softly drugs are bad hmmkay rubbish-hit them hard and hit them again and again with images of what happens on these things ie prison-homeless-life support-6 feet under – if that dont work then nothing will.
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The Man – great last post!
Student Bob – In your second-from-last post you again fail to realise that there is more to this than simply the argument about which is the ’safest’ way to get a ‘hit’ or a ‘high’. The social impact of legal highs is immense, take it from someone who sees the effects of abuse daily.
Just because a minority within our community choose to alter their minds it does not mean we should be discussing a lowering of our tolerance of what is socially acceptable to accommodate them. Of course, you will probably want to refer back to the fact that legal highs are safer than alcohol and tobacco. However, you fail to attribute the WHOLE end result to each particular drug – again, I guess due to your profession (I recall in other threads you have said you are a medical student in the UK?) your eye is on what will kill you as opposed to what is more likely to make you fight and be anti-social.
If alcohol had just been invented we’d be talking about whether that should be made illegal – sadly we missed the boat by a few centuries. Luckily, we have a chance to try to cap the problems caused by legal highs now – and we should grab it firmly with both hands.
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Ok Bob, got your point, maybe when (if) they can finally get the classifications right we can go out on your boat and celebrate accordingly ;) !!!
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Oh Truth Man, I’ve always been in agreement with your posts, but I fear you’re well off the mark with this one.
Are you trying to argue that the social affects of legal highs are worse than alcohol and tobacco?? We had 30 abusers rehabilitated this year. How many alcoholics do we have in care at the moment?? How many people received critical care this year for smoking related illnesses??
Check out the Jennings Drug Shock thread. A local lad detained for being drunk and disorderly. How many legal high users have been detained this year for disorderly conduct??
Every day the GP runs another article about ‘Stole for legal highs’ but how does this compare statistically to the people who are stealing for other reasons??
I spend half my year on placement in hospitals, in the community, putting people back together again. I’ve seen and dealt with far too many instances of illness due to alcohol or tobacco, lives that have been irreversibly destroyed. I have yet to see or treat a single legal high abuser.
Face it, the social impact of legal high abuse is negligible compared to alcohol and tobacco.
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Student Bob:
I think I’m not making my point clearly enough. I’ll try again.
I’m not arguing that the social effects of legal high use are worse than those of alcohol and tobacco at all – see my last paragraph for reference where I talk about whether in today’s society we would allow alcohol to be legal if it were a new discovery.
In your last post your main thrust is again in reference to the medical impact of abuse – and your link back to the social impact is knock-on financial drain.
My focus is far more on what the drug actually makes you do when you are ‘high’ and for that reason, for you to compare tobacco use to legal high and alcohol use misses my whole point completely (although this is not to take anything away from the fact that tobacco use causes other more passive problems as you rightly point out).
So I think, in fact, we probably agree with each other in some respects, although the only way to satisfy both of our perspectives would be to discuss making alcohol, tobacco AND legal highs illegal. Someone write that idea down!
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Truth Man, I got your point. Can you give a single example of being ‘legally high and disorderly’?? I’m not personally aware of any.
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Bob, just an add on.
The stats quoted here are not pro-rata. I would be very interested to hear about what percentage of legal high users need medical care and fall on the wrong side of the law, and compare that to the percentage of alcohol and tobacco users encountering the same problems.
Is there such a journal that you might have access to via your studies?
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Yet again i see a picture of legal highs in the press and it is a worry.I am a local , who in the past few years has seen the rise of these substances and now the eventual fall of them…..FANTASTIC!
One thing that does worry me is, what IS next? These unchartered waters are a massive risk,using the unknown as an alternative to a common natural plant.
I have been a ‘toker’ for want of a better word, in my youth, and am not adverse to the old ‘funny fag’ at social gatherings with like minded adults. I don’t expect our local government to agree but lets have a vote shall we?
For the past…ooh couple of thousand odd years humans have seemed to have had the desire to alter their minds when required. Wheather it is by alcohol, mushrooms,cannabis,cactus,licking toads,doing the hokey kokey (what ever floats your boat)or even the doctors favorite mothers little helper,’ valium’.The list goes on and on and on.
Only this week a U.K. scientist has received the elbow for daring to say the obvious…CANNABIS ISN’T BAD!!
NO! It doesn’t lead to harder drugs.I had a glass of shandy when i was ten…I didn’t turn into an alcoholic! Use and abuse is up to the individual and thats what each of us is..Individual.
How many people reading this have known or read about someone dying from alcoholic poisoning/choking? And the same question about cannabis??? ZERO, yep you would need about 200 joints to overdose on cannabis alone! And by the time you got to 5, you probably would have forgotten what you were doing and start eating cake anyway!
If any readers have seen programmes lately on t.v. terminally ill people are turning to cannabis instead of eating 15 prescription pills a day and damaging their internal organs! Doesn’t that say something?
Putting it plainly,WE as tax payers are clearing up every weekend after binge drinking,fighting,stomach pumping,extra policing in town and its ALL due to that fine DRUG that humans from the age of 14 up are consuming above the national recommended amount, ALCOHOL!! If booze was discovered now as a new drug it would be BANNED!
Dont get me wrong here,I like a pint after work myself, so this is not an anti-booze campaign.
I am a parent and IF, and lets face it, WHEN my teenager comes home to me intoxicated i just hope there only guilty pleasure that night is a smoke of weed , a packet of biscuits and two bags of crisps! NOT eight alcopops, a black eye and vomit down their top and a ride from our local police force!!
1.2 million pound down the drain WE SPENT AS TAX PAYERS, just like money spent to clean the mess every weekend at the North Plantation and extra Police and medical staff to cope with all the problems caused.How many of Guernsey crimes involve people drunk?
Guernsey,by legalizing, taxing and legislating cannabis, would guarantee year round tourists(all be it hippies) and make a fat hefty profit to fill the black hole!
Lets face it,OUR Government wants to be ahead of the U.K. in making laws …Lets be the first in changing this one and stop making criminals out of normal-adult-human-beings!
Yours,
A.Local
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Truth man
“My focus is far more on what the drug actually makes you do when you are high”
Can you please explain to me what it makes you do?
and then can you please explain to me what alcohol makes you do?
Thanks
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@stapes
Nice Post.
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Nice post @ staples
I dont mind the ban even though im a smoker cause with them getting rid of the legal stuff .pot will be coming back in the island and thats the best news. cause at least i now what i will be smoking !
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stapes
I agree. I would suspect most recreational alcohol users think that the idiots who do the fighting/wrecking/wife beating/lying about in the road covered in various pre and part digested foodstuffs are ruining the image of a quiet enjoyable pint.
These guys on Spice – actually do we know what these 30 are being treated for? – must be hitting VERY hard to get in that state, so what’s driving them?
Of course availability is a temptation. But why haven’t they got anything better to do? It’s not heroin fgs i’m presuming it doesn’t make you feel THAT good that it becomes obsessive?
Guernsey society must have issues if youngsters are able to get wasted in this size community for there to be no outreach from within, and for there to be a stigma enough that no one feels they can talk, and when they do, it’s usually from a hospital bed.
The long term solution requires some effort. This ban, especially if they get a possession law in too, as island fm is reported as saying, will just make those that would use anything at all to take more risks, and so ruin their futures even more than some education and treatment.
Why so many? Who’s watching out for them? Are they all loners? What are they being treated for?
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@ Anon:
I get the impression you don’t want answers to those questions – I suspect you’re trying to make a point?
I’m going to guess you don’t like me suggesting that a drug “makes” one do something.
If that is the case then I will apologise for such sloppy phraseology, and try again:
“My focus is far more on what behaviour people exhibit whilst they are under the effects of the drug”
And with regards to your comparative reference to the effects of alcohol could you please read my previous posts, where I also make reference to the social impacts of alcohol abuse, and the fact that if alcohol were being discovered today we would be talking about making it illegal. Sadly we’ve missed our chance, but that does not mean we should ignore the impact legal highs is having on our society and let this opportunity slip between our fingers.
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“Guernsey society must have issues if youngsters are able to get wasted in this size community for there to be no outreach from within, and for there to be a stigma enough that no one feels they can talk, and when they do, it’s usually from a hospital bed.”
It has an issue with over-coddled and indulged spoilt brats. Many of them unable to cope with independence. The brats also work very hard at undermining those unspoiled, under-indulged kids, and give them an under achievement complex. Some of both then turn to substance abuse as a surrogate for love/success/esteem or whatever it may be.
We also suffer terribly from a post-sixties generation of casual drug takers, alcohol abusers and substance abuse apologists that set a rather poor example to the next generation. Many “socially aware” parents use the TV as a babysitter while they go down the pub or smoke weed in the next room. Many leave their offspring in the hands of any convenient adult while they indulge their adrenaline highs in sporting activities. Given the level of “I’m an individual, give me freedom” irrespective of traditional responsibilities it really any wonder that we have a problem? Most kids are now exposed to the debt-fuelled hedonism of their principal role models.
We end up with kids needing to indulge in ever-weirder acticvities as they become acclimatised to anything and everything. Flashier cars, bigger tellies, extreme sports, more travel, more sex, more drugs, more, more, more. And we are living longer – what an anticlimax that’s going to be for many of them!
Ban the stuff while you can, lest it takes a wider social hold, like the tobacco and alcohol so many of you compare it to.
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An old, and true, saying that our legislators would be wise to follow.
“Hard cases make bad law”
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Last time I checked Fly Garrick is 100% legal 100% gets you off your face and 100% deadly if you don’t use it right (I have never used it) it leads me to ask “What legal high where these people taking?” and then put this down as dumb because again we don’t have even enough facts to start a discussion – Just enough to get an emotional response (I find £400000 of my tax money to be an emotional topic).
The active ingredient in Absinthe (a psychoactive one I might add) is Wormwood, you can buy that pretty much anywhere (health/aromatherapy store wise), make yourself tea and rot your central nervous system if you so desire… I read somewhere about prepared banana skins being a good smoke? Do they still sell Nitrous oxide as a propellant in Cream containers?
All told I would like to know where to draw the line on this because I’m not sure if my local Tesco should be touting these harmful wares
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Dean,stapes,joby,
Judging by the content of your posts on this subject the legal (or illegal) highs that you are using have obviously killed a lot of your brain cells!
Next you will be suggesting that we legalise every drug there is, how often do we see people appear in the Press for shoplifting, breaking and entering etc and very often the excuse is ‘my client is addicted to legal highs, cannabis, heroin etc etc’.
There is no good argument for legalising any drug,this island has already got enough problems.
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Stapes and Arnald
If you ever ran for Statesmembership I would vote for you!
Always wished I had been a “toker” but sadly it was not for me, oh no I prefered the alcohol which made me behave badly and get arrested often. I have now discovered that with a small pill or bit of powder (used sensibly) I can have a good evening out, without getting in trouble and without the horrendous 3 day hangover.
It is a sad day when a working adult cannot chose their poison for themselves.
Out of the 1000+ legal high users here, 30 have had problems. This is under 5%. How much were these people taking? That is the problem.
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why is it that the states will pay for the users of legal highs to go to the most expensive rehab ( the priory) . when thay wont pay for my mum to have an operation that she is in desperat need of, for her health so she can return to work. i was passing the social the other day and there was at lest three young girls rolling joints outside waiting for there money buggie in one hand and joint in the other. comes to somthing when kids get all thay want from the states and adults who need help and have worked all there lifes get bugger all!!!!! its a farse guernsey was once a beutiful island now its just a sham, bring back hanging a start a new states
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Kevin, you’ve just beautifully provided the argument for legalisation of narcotics! You talk of the drug related crime in your posts….but maybe you should consider that this crime wouldn’t exist if addicts could get their fix legally and via medical professionals?
Prohibition doesn’t work. UK police chiefs tell us this and publications such as The Economist argue for legalisation but politicans just won’t listen.
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@kevin, where in my posts did I claim to use legal/illegal highs? I assume by your post that you are suggesting anyone with a different view from your own must be some sort of whacked out drug user?
In your post you suggest ‘often the excuse is ‘my client is addicted to legal highs, cannabis, heroin etc etc’. You hit the nail on the head. These people often use it as an excuse as part of their defence.
I think when you say ‘There is no good argument for legalising any drug’ you actually mean ‘I am not prepared to listen to any argument’.
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@ Kevin ,
there is nothing wrong with my brain cells thanks i hold down two jobs and a flat. i never said legalise all drugs as i dont think thay should .but i do think that harder drugs such as Heroin,coke and all the other bad drugs should not be taken lightly . and too be honist with you kevin there is so meny more posts in the press regarding people who drink and cause fights . personally being a 32 year old i should be able to have a smoke as i dont drink or would you rather i drink alot on the weekends and throw up all over your front door!!!!!
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Nat, dean, joby,
I agree that alcohol abuse causes many problems but I’ve little doubt that making legal highs, cannabis and other ’soft’ drugs readily available and legal would result in more crime and social issues than we already have due to the potentially addictive nature of these substances, as with excessive drinking there is always those people who do not or cannot understand the meaning of the word ‘moderation’.
I don’t think there is an easy answer.
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Is it just me who thinks that 400k is really relatively little when compared to the millions squandered by the powers that be government on housing teenage mums(oooer i’ve gone all non-PC), incapacity-benefit-cheats etc – I would rather eat my own dirty socks than give them a penny personally if I had a choice, but hey, there but for the grace of god……..all this ‘not in my back yard’ ‘i’m alright, jack’ rubbish I have just scrolled through makes me sick – but some of you have your heads screwed on/live in this millenium thank goodness.
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I am a proud member of mensa and have been cannabis smoking for years since 13 now I am 25. Some legal highs are dangerous others are not so bad. Its all hype over here, one person says its bad… they all do and none of them actually smoke the stuff or even take the time to research what is in it! I think its scary as one of the previous comments stated that its due to youngsters wanting more expensive cars and bigger tv’s, its called change, the world is still spinning you know. As technology advances so does the want for it that has NO bearing on legal highs so stick to the topic. Marajuana gets a bad rep primarily from people’s lack of knowledge and understanding. In all of recorded history marajuana has never killed a single person, then you apply that to alcohol and its a totally different story. Legal highs were just a test to see if a society with legal marajuana would work and it has. Look up the crime rate in Amsterdam and Canada. There will always be a way around legal highs so just accept defeat and legalize dope, there is good reason to. Or there is always Maconha Brava (Zornia latifolia) That has ZERO adverse side affects but of course everyone against smoking it knew that already, being experts in horticulture!
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Rob
That’s Mensa for the record!!!
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