Deputy Al Brouard has called on planners to curb the spread of modern buildings that do not fit in with their surroundings. (Picture by Steve Sarre, 0867739)
MORE controls are needed to stop the spread of incongruous modern buildings, according to Deputy Al Brouard.
The Western deputy spoke at a planning inquiry at Les Cotils yesterday about how he feared more buildings not in keeping with the island were getting planning permission.
‘If you drop two pieces of litter, it’s more likely that more litter will be dropped in the same place,’ he said. ‘Something similar could happen with planning.’
He had seen an increase in modern builds.
‘I don’t want to see modern glass and steel boxes that jar the eye when I’m driving around the coast.
‘I’m OK with modern buildings, but some of the ones going up are making a statement and are standing out.’
He said it was possible to be modern without disturbing the character of the island.
‘The old eyebrow house has been replaced by a Spanish villa,’ he said.
‘It is very nice, but below it are traditional Guernsey cottages. It just doesn’t sit well. How did planning allow that to be built when they considered the other homes?’
He said the ‘snail house’ on the south coast, near Le Bigard, was an example of a modern house that did not disturb the local landscape.
Environment forward planning officer Trevor Shaw said the department would consider design and character before passing planning considerations. He said there was no need for increased controls.
Article posted on 6th November, 2009 - 1.00pm
61 Article Comments
Agreed!
Bring back the Beauties Committee.they had Guernsey at heart.
One day Guernsey will look like the American West was at the time of “Go West young man”
That’s what’s happening to Guernsey?
It’s going west.
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Well done Mr Brouard, at last somebody is making a stand on what can only be described as modern day bunkers being built around our coastline.
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Yes, let’s stay in the 1970s.
Guernsey is peppered with beautiful old cottages, farm buildings and town houses. However, look around: it’s also smothered in ugly post-war boxes, bungalows and thoughtless clos – which make up most of our stock.
Surely being ‘congruous’ with these is a retrograde step? By designing around them don’t we just end up with the worst of all possible outcomes: templated beige boxes only deemed to ‘fit in’ because their white plastic windows are fisherman sized?
Of course, it’s all down to personal aesthetic, but why not take a step forward? Personally I would rather see modern glass and steel than the beige pvc they’ve been putting up in the last 20 years which are only congruous if you squint, very, very hard.
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Is Mr Brouard referring to housing or commercial developments?
Certainly what has passed for the norm for housing since the 70s has been bland in the extreme.
I wonder if Al thinks our clos clones are aesthetically appealing?
I’m not convinced Guernsey has any definable architectural character save for the tiny(relatively speaking)amount of farmhouses and cottages and then the Victorian villas and townhouses.
These were all products of their time.
I think Bobok makes a good point.
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Good job that our ancestors didn’t share Mr. Brouard’s ideas otherwise we would all still be living in caves.
Over history there have been many different styles of buildings which have changed both as bulding methods improved and due to fashion.
Personally I find many Victorian houses rather unattractive, and most definately prefer the modern designs which are appearing around the island now thanks to the Environment department waking up to the modern world.
For some bizarre reason people like Mr. Brouard think that Guernsey should be stuck in a time warp between the 18th and 20th century. One day these modern houses will be historic too.
Mr. Brouard, I live in the West and vote in your district. You most certainly are not representing my views here.
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George. So you think that the Environment Dept have ‘woken up to the modern world’ with these invariably Mooarc-esk monstrosities that only the uber rich can commission, and that similarly, the uber rich have built pretty much where ever they like, regardless of the supposed planning laws or how totally out of place they look?
Where did you study design and architecture, I wonder?
Oh, and ‘one day these modern houses will be historic, too’.
Do you think? You obviously studied construction at the same place you studied design. Most of these modern homages to glass and steel are built of sub standard materials entirely unable to deal with everyday wear and tear, let alone the sea air, salt etc.
Just take a look at Admiral Park if you want an example of how long lasting these structures will be, it’s already starting to look shabby, and only built a few years ago, compared to the beautiful old cottages and farmhouses that date back hundreds of years.
If you want to live in a concrete jungle, move to London, there’s plenty there, you’ll love it.
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Just exactly what gives this Mr Brouard the right to speak on behalf of all islanders? Just exactly why are his views on architectural aesthetics superior to those of the people that commissioned, designed and built the house and granted the permission to build it?
In the case of the house in the photograph, it has replaced a building of outstanding ugliness. At least in my opinion (but I wouldn’t dream of foisting that on anyone else! – least of all the owner!)
What kind of house does Mr B live in?
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At Last some one has had the sense to speak up about the building distrution of the beauty of Guernsey.
Cynthia Hyam-Mooney
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I totally agree with Eric. Bring back the IDC.
Perfect solution.
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Well said Mr Brouard
and Scarlett your spot on with your comment.
Mooarc would cover this island in glass if they had half the chance. And some of the awarde they have won are a joke esp the one for one house that was an existing building anyway, with a box added to the back and a whole gable wall made of glass.
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CCD (the architects of the snail house) will be pleased!
I can see the advertising campaign now – ‘Architecture Approved by Deputy Brouard’.
I wonder when they’ll start using it?
As to the house in the photo – it doesn’t look finished yet – how do you look first thing in the morning before you’re ready for the world Deputy Brouard?
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clare ,what gives him the right, is that he’s a guernsey man ,not someone who thinks that they are from guernsey because they were born here with two english parents, who have very trendy ideas,and he is right, his point is, that, as you seem to think the pictured house may have replaced an ugly one but he says the replacement is just as ugly (and looks cheap)no skill gone into that.and george no worries with your comment because as scarlett points out this modern junk wont be there in twenty years let alone being counted as historic at 200 years old it seems that “modern thinking ” people are so gullible when it comes to being sold on absolute trash thats why theres so much money in high fashion maybe guernsey is not the place for you
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Clare:
You ask what rights has he to speak out;
Now I do not wish to be cheeky, or arrogant. or anything else–
However in a simple little phrase;
He has the right to speak out, it’s called Free Speech:
I agree with him and others of the same meaning, you want to see big ‘orrible looking ¨buildings Go to NY.
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From this week’s Economist (p.94)
“The Victorians loathed Georgian architecture. Intellectuals took over…Bloomsbury in part because it was undesirable and cheap. As Georgian architecture came back into fashion, Victorian architecture was derided. Then it, in turn, became prized, and Edwardian housing was condemned.”
Perhaps a lesson for Deputy Brouard?
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Flying Scot
One thing, well perhaps many– so be it’
But we are talking about a small Island, that until the Boche came it was an Island of beauty.
It still is: but the second wave of the boche wish to destroy the remainder.
We have people who are equally determined to uphold the dignity of a small Island , it’s beauty and it’s people.
The sooner the outsiders go; All of them the better for the Island; we’ll tighten our belts for awhile; we’ve done it before; but we’ll determine our ways not the ways of strangers.
Remember that bold song–
And the strangers came and tried to teach us their ways—
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Eric,
In England when someone says ‘the immigrants should go back to their own country’, they usually support the BNP and are called ‘racists’. What are they called here?
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FlyingScot – Eric has continued to make disgraceful racist comments on this site for months. I along with others have reported abuse on the worst of his comments about the British but he continues to abuse everyone that is not a precious Guern!
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@arapaho – are you suggesting that only “immigrants” have bad taste when it comes to architecture? Do you have proof that all these ugly buildings are being designed and built by non-locals? I don’t have proof either way but I’m pretty sure bad taste isn’t restricted to so called non-locals!
As an afterthought, I’m a Le Page born to a local father (of Guernsey ancestry) and an English mother – a half-caste Guern. I married a British lady who isn’t local, we have a daughter who was born here (so she’s 1/4 Guern). Given some of the rather strong rhetoric around here I wonder if I’m welcome here any more or am I a social pariah for polluting the Guernsey-gene pool? Will we be first on the boat when the revolution comes?
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I’ll back up Paul here. Geez, Arapaho, didn’t take long for that typical “Guernseyman” attitude/argument to come up (nor Scarlett’s “if you don’t like it, move”).
Honestly! If all “Guernseymen” were all like that it’s a wonder we ever learned to use tools.
At what point, Arapaho, can a Guernsey born person claim your title of “Guernsey man”? 3,4,5 generations? How many, Capt Xenophobe?
For what it’s worth, my Dad is English, my mother from several Guern generations and my in-laws are likewise. Am I Guern? I’d say yes, my passport says yes, but as I think as others do that this is simply a change in style (I hate the Victorian Houses too – not very Guernsey like, are they???).
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Can someone suggest to me at exactly what year architecture reached its pinnacle ? The Victorians, they built some lovely things didn’t they ? But then Regency buildings are quite nice … but not a patch on Tudor …. I’ve seen a few nice medieval manor houses, almost as good as the Norman churches and castles …. but you cant really beat a Roman villa can you ?
Although iron age round houses have their charms … I think it all started to go wrong when we left the caves ….
Tastes will always come and go, as will architectural styles, but to attempt to impose one style on us all is pointless and futile.
Our place in history is no more or less relevant or important than any other. Yes 18th Century Guernsey farmhouses and cottages look nice, but should we have refused to build anything different in the past 200 years ? ( like all the Gerogian Town houses, the Victorian terraces …..)
Modern architecture may appear ugly to some of us, but don’t forget the Romans built apartment blocks out of concrete – very Guernsey I’d say !!! – and if one were found buried somewhere today you would do all you could to preserve it, not demolish it as an eyesore ….
But then I’m a foreigner ( English ) with foreign parents ( English ) who married a foreigner ( English )with foreign parents ( English ) so I don’t suppose my opinion counts …
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Flying Scot and Missy.l
If you think for one moment that what I write is wrong, then you haven’t read much history.
If I write all the things that make me point out how the Angelo-Saxons have behaved in the world then you would indeed be shocked: maybe you have read and do know,
You accuse me of saying annoying things, is it because in your heart you know I am right?
I still maintain you have no right to try and subdue us to the English way of life; that way is your concern. but don’t try it on Guernsey people:
To those who are married one sex or the other are all for the Island; it is those who think they can rule over us that make me annoyed.
You seem to think that I am wrong to talk out against you, that is your problem:
But remember this: we will never buckle, to behind the back attitudes you take on your own admission, by reporting me.
I am proud to Be a Guernsey man and I have my reason for my distrust of all things English.
I hope you will never have to have that problem
But in the meanwhile, remember this:
We are not one of your ex colonies, and grateful for that, for when you were finished with them the great empire left distraught and ,hungry and poor. you had taken all they had, even their honour as human beings.
Guernsey people will not allow you to do that, we may be donkeys, try us out to far and we’ll kick, and you’ll know you’ve been kicked.
Oh and to bring up the BMP is childish, do you hope to gain ground.. poor souls that you are,
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How sad that the only way in which those who dislike some recent buildings can express their distaste is to blame it on the origins of the designers.
As others have said, many (in fact probably all) of our most loved buildings are based on styles imported from elsewhere by designers trained overseas. There is no such thing as a ‘Guernsey’ style – it is French from Normandy.
By far the worst aberrations have been by islanders – the extensive ribbon development was driven by local builders and permitted by successive very local Beauties Committee. It was not stopped until a very English planner came to our Island. We should be for ever grateful for his strength and determination.
Good design will respect and encompass its surroundings and poor design, be it on a ‘contemporary’ style building or yet another bungalow, will never fit.
I did not like the ‘Eyebrow House’ but I also fought against its replacement. A group of very ‘Guernsey’ politicians insisted it go ahead.
Time has shown that a designer’s origins are no indicator as to the quality of his or her work.
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Eric,
The problem with your “logic” is that the architecture Deputy Brouard does not like appears to have been designed by a Guernseyman called ‘Falla’….whereas the stuff he does like, by an Englishman named ‘Dyke’….
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The house that has recently been constructed right above the town church and next to the Salvation Army is a glaring example of this.
A glass and steel box erected on this site is not in keeping with Guernseys traditional look.
Lets not allow any more.
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Paul Le Page
I think most would rather put eric on the boat when the revolution comes, so don`t worry i think your safe :).
And to any others calling his rants a typical Guernsey attiude, well then your just as short sighted as eric. Its just an attitude of some people no matter where there from.
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Sad to see Guernsey residents knocking each other with such venom, for surely the answer to this problem lies with the States Department responsible for approving or dissapproving all construction permits on the island? Or does no such department exist these days? If such a department does exist, then clearly the department and it’s leader/s – elected or not – are not doing their job in following the wishes of the majority of islanders and should be replaced. And if such a department does not exist then it is high time that one was created.
I well remember the IDC and was recently surprised to learn that there is no IDC on the island now. I recollect that although the IDC was in some instances not a popular ‘body’, the IDC certainly did a good job of maintaining Guernsey’s character re construction.
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Flying Scot
No it is not my logic at all.
I simply pointed out when it was intimated that the aforesaid deputy had spoken out, and the the question arose
“Did he have the right to speak out*
I answered by saying it should be every man’s right to speak out as we are supposed to have–
“FREE SPEECH”
At least that is the theory, alas, but not the practice.
Too much of the “I don’t like him” because they do not agree with your way of thinking, that to me is a crime against mankind–
If I’m wrong, and it appears some of you think I’m wrong– then may I ask in all sincerity what the ‘L’ is our men doing out in Afghanistan, and why did some of my family die, to defend their right to free speech.
You can’t have your cake and eat it.
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an eyesore it is then what about the buildings along the sea front (offices an flats) the island is starting to look rediculous pardon my spelling,, and to be honest i HATE IT, the offices with all that glass an the roseville estate look gross
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I agree with Al Brouard.
Most certainly some of the building given permission. are incongruous.
If you look at the where the shell house was( La Carriere, Forest), it has been replaced with a ugly looking warehouse come shed.Also if you look the other side somebody has built a greenhouse on the cliffs.
Why do the planners, whose are mostly non local, consult more with the Douzaines.
The Douzaines may not have town and city guild diplomas, but do know their parish.
Those people who try hard to convince me, that these designs are the old buildings of the future.
This is one donkey, who can not be fooled into believing he is a mule. I will let those, who try hard to be mules, to take the credit for these abominations
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Toby. yes
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Billy, I am local through and through, have lived all over the world, and possess a deep and genuine passion for GOOD design in all it’s various forms.
What I and many others do NOT like are those ‘modern buildings’ that ALL LOOK THE SAME – ie. glass, steel, concrete. They are wrong on so many levels not because they are ‘modern’ or what you would ‘typically see’ as ‘progressive’, but because they are hideous and boring and scream at the top of their pylons ‘we don’t fit in here, but our owners are rich and we are so very now’, regardless of what their neigbors or anyone else thinks.
Your ‘typical Guernseyman’ comments are so ‘typically disparaging and predictable’ – but fyi, Billy, some of those who prefer good design to glass boxes AREN’T LOCAL……..
and you think WE’RE insular…!!
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Po boy, you are quite right – it is nothing like that most ancient and traditional of Guernsey buildings – the dolmen.
The sooner we go back to them the better.
Or were you in fact refering to a building style that was only adopted many thousands of years after Guernsey was first populated, and which would look as out of place to those original Sarnians as modern buildings do to you and Mr Brouard ….
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Eric,
How can you purport to defend free speech, when you solution, for all those who disagree with your view, is for them to leave the island?
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Of course it is really quite useless trying to say one’s meaning on this blog, like many items they get twisted more than a corkscrew.
Some one mentioned that the Guernsey cottages and house were not Guernsey at all, but had the birth in Normandie
Hello there; think it over.
Now to those who say I speak disparagingly about England (Not the UK as many say).
Well along the coast of France is a most beautiful little port called HONFLEUR. read what happened there many years ago.The Indian mutiny, Boston tea party, all can be found on Google, if you haven’t read history books; Of course history is written, not made as many think.
My point was this, The English have been, and still try to dominate, many times at the expense of it’s military, who I might add were the best, but stood little chance when ruled by a ruthless Goverment mostly those detestable Lords.
‘Say what you will about me I care not, but read before you spout.
‘
As for the ridiculous assumption about Paul Le Page; He in my humble opinion speaks not with a forked tongue, he in my opinion has been honest all along, I don’t agree with all he says, but at least I give way in his right to say whatever comes to mind.
If any should,t have to leave, then it he shouldn’t; his postings are more honest than the back biting of those who have no vision,
‘England’s history has been warlike since those first Knights came from Saxony to fight the Scots who were after all defending their own country, as Indeed I try to do with mine.
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Oh dear, I think I have made a big mistake as when I read the headline
” Stop these eyesores spreading” I thought I was in the obesity blog. !!!
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Flying Scot
You show yet another item that you turn to try and alleviate the truth of my words;
I have not said if they don’t agree then they must leave.
I have said that they try to come the old razz-a-ma-tazz with us the Islanders,
well we’ll not have it.
So what I do say is the sooner they return to their homeland the better off will Guernsey become.
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“He had seen an increase in modern builds”
Shocking.
Recently more and more things seems to be more modern.
Looking back at things which were done in the past it seems to me that they are less modern.
When will this end?
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I suppose the Queen is most grateful that our Duke built her home; Windsor Castle,
and many other buildings in and around England, are they also u-modern.
In any case they have stood the wrath of time and still have uses.
England was better under the Normans than it is now; Jealousy was the factor of such fairy tales as Robin Hood, Richard Lion Heart who hardly ever lived in England; and disdained to marry an English Girl. my word History has many strange stories-.-
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Why do you all allow yourselves to be wound up by Eric’s racist rantings? You only grant him some kind of legitimacy by taking him so seriously – and not just on this thread.
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The eyesores that need to be stopped are all the ugly, modern buildings along the seafront, all glass and steel, they are too big and too ugly, no part of the Admiral Park developement made provision for green areas, where the workers can sit in their lunchhours and mums with children can walk through, even though some of the area still remains undeveloped.
Give some of that undeveloped area to the public instead of another office block, and what happened to having a cinema/ice rink/restaurant area, that never happened either did it? Its just office, office, office, office, office oh and some posh ugly appartments with nice views.
The other big criminal in the ugly building stakes is the GHA, they are building bigger and Bigger and BIGGER, and no-one is stopping them, their latest efforts at ‘Rue Clouet’ is a monstrosity.
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Ted you are quite right. Lets all ignore Eric as were only giving him what he wants by responding.
Completely agree with DT – why do they keep promising these desperately needed facilities i.e. a cinema and then just building more and more ugly offices? Us people are in serious need of something other than beaches.
How’s about a mall in place of these huge offices? Or an arcade for the kids? Or a pier arcade with money slots and games? A zoo? An aquarium? What is there to actually do apart from work and look at the scenery? – If you’re not into/cannot participate in sports?
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You know Missy I bare you no ill will, or anyone else for that matter: I simply dis-agree with how they try to turn nor island into a small edition of Blackpool, Which bis a fine in it’s place, but Guernsey is a just a small Island, and as a Guernsey man I love it as it should be-
You talk of development, oh Dear-
The said that Beau-SE-Jour would ge Ideal for the kids, they could learn to swim, play games join in all activities- Then-oh then permission was granted (on public land I assure you)
Once built- came the thumb screws. the prices were so extravagant that the kids couldn’t afford it, that is exactly what they wanted, now it’s run mainly by clubs and booked long in advance, so the children once again are out-
I can foresee the same if as wished the development of the places you name. — or a new place for those who will leave the sunken gardens,
ARE THOSE THOUGHTS ALSO TO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND MISSY?
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@ arapaho – the house in the picture is not finished, nowhere near amybe people should wait for the finished article before passsing judgement.
I think Deputy Brouard is out of order to stand in front of someone’s incomplete yet approved building and use it to try and justify his opinion. The next thing he will want is everyone to have to pebble dash their house!
No amount of commitees or reviews will bring about the right result every time, when it comes to design and planning, because beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.
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Scarlett, you clearly do not have a deep passion for good design, or if you do it’s not as varied as you make out. As marvellous as the Guernsey cottage is, fabulous ornate buildings all over the world, your “modern buidlings” a) don’t all look the same, and b) are not wrong on so many levels, other than the “I don’t like it, so it’s wrong” level. What you see as hideous, others might like. Personally, I find the decoration in many (not all) homes owned shall we say by senior citizens as pretty hideous – why anyone would want a sofa with flowers emblazoned all over it is beyond me, but it’s their taste!
You might refer to my comments as predictable, but no more so than yours! All together now…: “Get orf mooy laaaannndd”
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Billy. Wow! This is AMAZING!! I know who you are now –
you’re Derren Brown, aren’t you?!
I mean, you’ve never met me (as far as I know), yet you claim to know me, my background, age, interests, knowledge – and, I suspect, the sort of house in which I live!
Only one place where you tripped up, tho, Derren, I didn’t state that the ubiquitous ‘Guernsey cottage’ is the only sort of building that should be allowed in the island.
What I DO believe to be true (just in case there was some sort of hidden complexity in my original statements that threw you) is that GOOD design that fits in with the surroundings and shows ingenuity and taste is great, monotonous glass boxes costing 000 000’s (that appeal to everyone with no vision or clue about design – which is perhaps why is appeals to you so much?) dumped on every decent site/place of beauty that remains, is not.
Don’t worry, tho, Derren, if the mind reading career goes belly up, you could always set yourself up as a tour guide for the tourist industry (one of the few alternative industries left on the island) and try and make a go of giving tours of Admiral Park and some of the other monstrosities that you’re such an expert on.
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Sorry Scarlett, I think you got the wrong end of the stick there. I wasn’t referring to you at all, simply to some aspect that a certain generation appear to have a tendancy towards that I find pretty grim. I certainly didn’t claim any knowledge of you.
Where also did I comment that YOU (emphasis added, not shouting!)stated Guernsey Cottages is the only building blah blah blah.
Look, if you’re going to misinterpret everything I write just to try to point score, then: hatstand hatstand, big eye, eagle pyramid, hatstand.
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Billy. Talking of misinterpretation, this is what I wrote (describing Admiral Park) –
‘if you want an example of how long lasting these structures will be, it’s already starting to look shabby, and only built a few years ago, compared to the beautiful old cottages and farmhouses that date back hundreds of years…’
This is what YOU read –
‘YOU (that is,I) stated Guernsey Cottages is the only building blah blah blah’ …
Now, who’s misunderstanding who, exactly..?
Also fyi, when you refer to someone as ‘typically Guernsey’ (is that supposed to be an ‘insult’-?) thus inferring that somehow makes that person inferior/their opinion less worthy, and claim that they are lying/delusional regarding their feelings/knowledge – ie. that I ‘clearly do not have a deep passion for good design’ then what is that, exactly, if it isn’t claiming to know someone?
Your remarks and misinterpretation of my comments (which I cannot make any clearer without the aid of diagrams) deserved a response, and you got it.
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Scarlett, attempting to discredit somebody’s personal opinion about building styles by asking where they studied architecture and construction is frankly pathetic.
You and arapaho then suggest that people who have opinions that differ to their own should leave Guernsey! The insinuation seems to be that a true ‘Guern’ would share your opinion, therefore someone like me doesn’t belong here and should leave…amazing.
My Father is what you would consider a true Guernseyman, my mother is Scottish, and I was born in England becuase they moved there to work for a couple of years before returning to Guernsey. I consider myself to be Guernsey, certainly not English, but some on this thread would no doubt argue that. Are those that think that a ‘true Guern’ must have Guernsey parents on both sides going back generations really naive enough to believe that until recently Guernsey’s population grew just from local stock since the island was first lived on?
Eric, how do you define what you term as an ‘outsider’? The Normans were certainly not the original inhabitants of Guernsey, but you call the Duke of Normandie ‘our Duke’. So perhaps you are of Norman decent (as I think my family name is). In that case we are outsider I guess. Our ancestors no doubt forced their will and opinions on the inhabitants of Guernsey. But then again, the Vikings were here, and no doubt some of thir genes are still in Guernsey. I’m pretty sure they didn’t take the opinions of the inhabitants of Guernsey into too much account. Hmmm, the Romans were also here. As far as I understand it they weren’t known for doing things by concensus with the local population.
I’m pretty sure that nobody alive today could trace their genes 100% back to the original inhabitants of Guernsey, so I guess we are all outsiders to some degree then.
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oh my goodness, George. REALLY!!! It makes absolutely NO difference to me where you or anyone else I debate an opinion are from!!
The way that I choose to express myself and my personal opinion is my right, the same as it is yours to do likewise. Calling me some sort of racist is equally, to use your words, ‘pathetic’, inaccurate, and misdirects from the issue (deliberately? I wonder..), which was, I recall, about modern buildings that are NOT in keeping with their surroundings, and are ruining our island.
Next time you’re out and about, I suggest you take a walk out to Corbiere, and check out the building right on the cliffs, once a farmhouse, that is now two glass and wood paneled boxes stuck together. It’s inspiration was ‘German bunker’. The ‘modern’ wood panelling can’t stand up to the salt air and is degrading rapidly, and I understand the owners (who commissioned this, with a suitable amount of 000 000’s on the application) are trying to sell the place, but can’t.
– it’s neighbors are a row of Guernsey cottages, and further up the road, an old (Victorian) building, and a few fields…..
just up the lane from this, Mooarc have transformed the ‘old shell house’ (formerly a bungalow set right back off the road, with a large garden full of shell ornaments – a bit of a local novelty), into an ENORMOUS glass/steel box. It takes up the whole footprint of the land, with just a strip of green around it, and this, along with it’s incredible height essentially means you can see it from everywhere. Probably space.
– it looms over the beautiful farmhouse and fields that it borders, screaming, ‘look at me’ to the passers by who used to enjoy a stroll round the lanes to take a peek at the latest shell ornament and enjoy the scenery that makes Guernsey what it is…..
and then (one more for luck, ay!), 200 yards up that same tiny lane, there is yet ANOTHER immense steel/glass structure going up, replacing ANOTHER little bunglalow (that was so discreetly hidden behind the hedge, you didn’t know it was there), and consuming it’s entire footprint. Once again, it can be seen for MILES, and it’s neigbors are mainly fields and green lanes.
Now, you stated that the Environment Dept giving permission for modern buildings – which includes these uber houses plonked in the middle of the countryside – are them ‘waking up to the modern world’
- if you take a look at these and still think Environment is bettering our island (even if it is just for the wealthy), then fair enough, I’ll agree to differ, George.
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George!
How refreshing to have an honest posting, and not all fire and brimstone.
I agree with all you have written on this topic of ‘outsiders’
Problem with most who take it as ill meant are the very ones guilty of that which I have complained about.
Our ways are certainly not the ways of the Teutonic nations, albeit there was that alliance some time back known as the French /German alliance,
But Normandie was not part of France in those days, The very name is the clue to it all Normandie/ after the Norse men (Normans)
My postings referred to how the English, because they started a Tax haven, did not have the rights to judge and determine the way the Island is run, and it is to those I wish to see the back off.
If as they say they are not Tax-havens then why aren’t they run in England, or France or anywhere else?
It’s because they are allowed much leeway; and so run Tax Havens. there is little doubt in many persons minds.
However it was the way it all started; England or the UK was not allowed to join the EU, because of the sleight hand to De Gaulle during the war years; once again the snobbery of the so-called upper class, De Gaulle had only been a Captain. and to the snobbish Generals and upper crust “It’s not on old Boy*
So to get into the EU, England had to toe the line, and it was those toeing that made England turn on our Island.
De Gaulle was now President of France. and he bitterly opposed the English, a true revenge action; however that revenge was turned into advantage.
Guernsey lose The Tomato Trade to Holland and Spain. people now had a coloured fruit red when ripe, watery but no taste, and that is what we were left with ; a Tasteless Agreement between nations,
It seems so coincidental, that the Tax-haven of Hong Kong was lost, it all helped in the dismissal of our trade, and to the benefit of the English. Underhand workings will one day be payed for in full: We are patient: but the Apes will leave Gibraltar. as indeed other places.
Those Nations so often dismissed by the England are gradually imposing their will on England- they can one of two things give in to the EU, or pull out; there is no other way.
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Scarlett
Mooarc are also responsible for the unsellable two glass and wooden boxes at Corbiere which you (like me) reckon is hideous.
The one Al Brouard is stood in front of looks like one of theirs too (above Richmond corner I think).
Check out their website for more awful stuff.
The forthcoming Portelet glass box is particularly out of keeping.
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I’m a Guern born and bred and want to stand up and say I LOVE what Jamie Falla and Mooarc have brought to Guernsey’s architecture. Guernsey is awash with ugly 1950’s bungalows and hideous pastiche buildings. We live in the 21st century so where on earth is the integrity in building houses pretending to be of another era? Of course there are some beautiful heritage buildings – the traditional guernsey farmhouse for example – which should be respected and preserved, but overall Guernsey is a non-descript grey when it comes to architecture. THANK GOD FOR MOOARC AND CONTEMPORARY ARCHITECTURE and at last some vibrant colour in guernsey’s architectural spectrum.
Just to respond to Scarlett – you are sadly misinformed about the houses at Corbiere. There are not problems with the house near the cliffs- which used to be an ugly pebble dashed 1950’s bungalow, not a farmhouse. And the house which used to be an asbestos wooden structure with a shell garden, I have had the pleasure of being shown around – it is a beautiful contemporary family home with a sizeable garden. I know from the estate agents that they are currently fighting off rival bids, and selling it certainly isn’t problematic. The house is gorgeous and I am confident will be winning architectural awards and being featured in highly respected design magazines.
Get your facts straight before ranting!
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Scarlett, nowhere in my post did I say that you were racist, I simply said that you seem to imply that people not agreeing with you must not be what you would consider local.
Funnily enough I walk my dogs pretty much every day at Corbiere, so my opinion certainly included what has been and is being built there. I must put my hand up and say i’ve only been going there for a year, so I don’t recall what the Shell House looked like.
I also have to say that you have massively exaggerated how visible the new house on that site is. As regards the latest new building, if you are referring to the one on the corner, the bungalow that it is replacing wasn’t exactly a thing of beauty, and what i’ve seen being built there seems to be concrete blocks rather than steel and glass, unless it has changed a lot in the last week.
It sounds like you know the area well, do you live nearby by any chance?
Eric, thanks for your response and thanks for explaining your meaning a bit more. I meant to mention the Normandy = Norse Men in my last post.
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Dear Eric,
I do not follow your logic, especially if you take it to its full conclusion.
You state “My postings referred to how the English, because they started a Tax haven did not have the rights to judge and determine the way the Island is run, and it is to those I wish to see the back off.” – but I don’t see how the English could have started anything as the laws that allowed the first Banks to set up in Guernsey would have been passed by the States of Deliberation.
And the States then was stuffed full with Guerns. So it seems, if you follow your logic, that the turkeys voted for Christmas ……
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Well Aeschylus:
it isn’t a Greek tragedy at all. but a straightforward request(although many make it sound racial)to behave in a manner that suits a small Island, the Island is not a raving metropolis, so why all the humbug.
Sure we have the right to express our disgust at, for example the overbearing attitude of the so called CM.
Many of those in the past, and in history demanded more power; they got it: but they ain’t here any more.
But Guernsey will live on.
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George.
I, like you, enjoy walking, but fortunately, no, I do not live near Corbiere. I would be devastated if I did.
As in my previous post, fair enough, I’ll agree to disagree.
Antsy – sorry, I should say, ‘The Estate Agent’s Friend’. Again, I really don’t care where you’re from, we’re debating opinions here, not birth places.
As for getting my ‘facts straight before ranting’…. hmm…
I didn’t say that Mooarc are fighting to sell the latest box on the old shell house site (which STILL isn’t sold, talk is the only thing that’s cheap, especially amongst your estate agent friends), but the previous Mooarc folly on the cliffs was on the market, and failed to sell. So wrong there.
So it’s ok by you to build these things, as the buildings they replace were apparently atrocious, too. I think most people would agree that bungalows were never gods gift to design, but at least they weren’t visable from space. Two wrongs never made a right, ever.
One ‘fact’ I can be confident of is that your friends will be there when the latest Mooarc mansion is finished, ‘fighting’ with their ‘rival bids’ and sipping some champers, keeping your eyes on the prize (namely money) and little else….
but hey, where there’s a buck to be made, who cares, ay…?
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and Antsy, as Colombo would say, just one more thing.
If you think that the lack of thought and consideration that the Planning Department sadly showed many, many years ago, when then allowed discreet little bungalows and asbestos shacks to be built in some of the most lovely unspoiled places in the island, gives Mooarc and those of their ilk carte blanche to buy those, then ‘develop’ them – not into modern, affordable homes for all of us, but into uber huge, incongruous boxes (not because of an appreciation of aesthetics, but because more square inches= more ££s) that only the wealthy can afford – then the people you need to convince of your argument are the neighbors of the former eyebrow house and the people of Portelet, not me.
– good luck!
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Scarlett, You keep on mentioning that these new buildings can be seen from space. There are many buildings in Guernsey from various periods that are much larger. In fact at the end of the lane that you refer to there is an absolutely massive (and beautiful) old farm house and outbuildings, the largest I have seen in Guernsey. I do agree that some, like the eyebrow house replacement, are huge, but not the ones you have referred to above.
As far as your comment that small affordable housing should be built on these plots, well they are in a fantastic location which is going to inflate the price. The one near the cliffs is also on acres of land. Because of these factors they would be outside the majority of people’s budgets anyway.
You also stated that the one on the corner takes up almost the whole plot, which is not true. It has been built in an L shape, so it has a large space of partially enclosed garden. I suppose that you think that all plots should have a little house in the middle rather than be built on the edge of the plot…I guess you would be ranting against Roman villas if they were still around!
I’ve been reading your posts for a long time on various topics. While our opinions on many aspects of life are quite different it is obvious that you are an intelligent person who thinks about things deeply. Recently though you have started to prove your points and discredit people by immediately going on the attack. When I stated my views on buildings you straight away questioned if I had studied architecture and construction. You then tell Billythefish that only people with ‘no vision or clue about design’ find these modern buildings appealing…in otherwords people who don’t share your opinion. You also call him an ‘expert’ on modern building in a sarcastic manner, again purely because his opinion differs from yours. You then attempt to discredit antsy by calling him an ‘estate agent’s friend’ based on the fact he has seen a house. Did you consider he could have been a customer, or a tradesman, or a friend of a tradesman? Of course he could have a friend who is an estate agent…so what?
I do appreciate it that you agreed to disagree with me, so I give you this advice with friendly intentions – argue your points with real facts rather than massive exaggerations or plain untruths and cut out the attempts to discredit anyone who doesn’t share your outlook. That way you will both be taken much more seriously and be more likely to change people’s opinions.
Some of your recent posts are starting to rant in the same manner as Arnald, who nobody takes seriously!
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George. Thank you for your observations, I am sure they are well intentioned, however, this isn’t the House of Commons or a Court of Law, it’s a debate forum, and the variety of opinions expressed in a multitude of different ways by all sorts of people is what keeps it interesting-!
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I would have to heartiily agree with George there Scarlett. You are seriously misinformed on an awful lot of things that your opinions seem to be based on. Shall I list them:-
The owners of the house on the cliffs put their house on the market and it didn’t sell because it was put on at a very high price, not because there weren’t people interested in buying it.
The house on the site of the old shell house hasn’t sold yet because it isn’t finished and hasn’t been properly marketed yet, although there is plenty of interest.
Mooarc do plenty of affordable housing, just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
Yes, I have connections with people involved in these properties, which means I am very reliably informed – unlike you.
If you are unable to appreciate the aesthetics of contemporary architecture that’s fine. There are however plenty of people out there who do. People go to Mooarc because they like the style of architecture. Mooarc would go out of business if there weren’t a market for it. Do you really think these architects design without a regard to aesthetics? Mooarc are an award winning company whose work has been featured in many well respected publications – that’s because it is highly regarded aesthetically and it’s design integrity is enormously respected, it just doesn’t happen to be to your taste.
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Scarlett.
Oh yes your posting of the 16Th is so true,
Yet you know, one can’t but laugh (Not derisively) yet thinking about this and that and outsiders, modern building, old cottages, then came the real true one.
The Dolmens. yes those burial places:
Yet this not a Normandie thing. or Guernsey per se, but From the Norse-men aye! the Vikings
Loads of them there Dolmens in Denmark,
‘Yes they were dwellings in a way; for Vikings believed in Valhalla That mysterious place where they dwelt forever after;
The Dolmens were their last resting place.
No wonder when people defile them they get punished.
The Rev Lee ordered the opening of the L’islet dolmens; he was warned not to do it; he scoffed at it. His Cortage wound it’s way through St Peter port and up Smith street.
The same happened with the Pyramids.
Old houses eh! we’ll see; we have a folklore, and I for one believe in it.
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