DETAILS of an agreement between the airport firefighters and the States that was announced yesterday are being kept secret.
Public Services said the deal ended the threat of further industrial action at Guernsey Airport.
Following the May bank holiday weekend strike which brought air services to a standstill, airport crews were paid about £4,000 per man in a one-year deal to provide cover for colleagues when watches fell below minimum numbers required due to annual leave, sickness or training course attendance.
Public Sector Remuneration Committee chairman Deputy Allister Langlois said one of the aims of the new package was to ensure turnover of staff at the Airport Fire Service did not return to previous levels.
‘The financial element of the deal will be paid for through efficiency savings achieved by reducing the turnover of staff and the firefighters also taking on a broader role in supporting airport operations,’ he said.
Deputy Langlois (pictured) said the precise terms and conditions were a matter for the employer and employee and the PSRC had agreed with the men’s union, Unite, not to release details at this time.
Airport director Colin Le Ray said previous arrangements had contributed to a high turnover of fire service staff and that it cost around £10,000 in training alone for each new recruit.
It also took four to six months to fully train a replacement.
He said the new deal should help address these critical issues.
‘The new conditions address the operational requirements of the airport far better, in particular the issue of retention, which in recent years has seen us incur very high costs,’ he said.
‘We have also been able to clarify and strengthen arrangements in terms of providing guaranteed cover.’
Unite regional industrial organiser Ron Le Cras said all parties had approached the negotiations with a view to putting behind them the industrial action that was seen earlier this year and work constructively towards an agreement that addressed the key issues on all sides.
‘That cooperation has enabled us to reach agreement on a new package covering both pay and conditions and, importantly, guaranteeing firefighter cover at Guernsey Airport,’ he said.
Article posted on 19th December, 2009 - 2.30pm
35 Article Comments
if the rumours are true they should hide away in shame, cause in their case they should of worn a mask, roll on the next lot of strikes i can see the angry mobs with pitch forks already
Report abuse
You couldn’t make this up!!! After years of whinging both sides anounce agreement one week into the hearing. Now they can all hide behind any criticsm by saying it is all now irelevant. How can they justify the increased packages by offsetting them against unquantifiable savings in recruitment costs! What are the costs? Surely we have the right to know after all the firefighters have put us through. Loss of experienced staff!! Pathetic.
Report abuse
Here we go again.The usual seasonal misinformed witterings and Firefighter bashing comments of the insular few.
Look outside the box and try and have an open mind on what is for the good of the islands longterm economy and paying traveller.
Try not to portray a bitter mindset of past events and wait for the conclusion of the tribunal to at the least answer some of the questions that obviously bother you.
Have a Happy Xmas.Katie.xx
Report abuse
Does anyone know when this agreement starts? Katie?
The reason for asking is that the £4000 payment in may was for 1 year.
Are we to assume that if the agreements starts immediately then the balance of the £4000 will be repaid.
Or is this a reason for keeping the terms of the deal quiet?
Report abuse
The ‘States of Guernsey’are a public body, elected by the public, and maintained by public tax money. Why should any single thing that the States of Guernsey do be permitted to be kept secret?
Report abuse
Katie;
You may right; but I think you have got your dates wrong. this 2009 not 1943.
And they shout to high heaven for democracy. is it meant to be just for a few–
Or does it not apply in the case under discussion.
No wonder people are annoyed; it seems as if we live in twisted kind of “It’s alright for some.”
Report abuse
Here we go, slag off the firefighters time again. If we won’t agree or settle the negotiations we get slated and are being greedy. We come to an agreement and we get slated and are being greedy. Grow up and get over it. You obviously wont be satisfied whatever we do. If we had agreed to carry on working for no wages, no days off etc. some of you would still find something to criticise. It is pretty obvious that a lot of the critics just do so because it seems like a trendy thing to do. To be honest its getting a bit boring. Those that do slate us always spout the same old incorrect rubbish and can’t even find something original.
Report abuse
SM
what are you ranting about? none of the posts are directed at the firemen? but more of the secrecy of the deal awarded.
What i would be interested in knowing is whatever the deal is, was it avaliable to the previous PSRC to make towards the FF on behalf of the PSD?
It seems that this is an attempt to make it look as though it was all down to the previous PSRC?
What has changed between what was on offer before and now? Maybe thats why is being kept quite?.
Report abuse
The public deserve to know what our money is being spent on…
Report abuse
Why wont the States share the details of the agreement with the tax payer? All this will lead to is a slow drip of half truths and back stabbing through the Guernsey grape vine. Whats the secret?
Report abuse
Great news that there won’t be any more airport closures, but I don’t think any use of public money, by an elected politician, should be secret. This sort of politics just breeds rumour and mistrust.
Report abuse
SM
The points you make would have some validity if those who are paying knew what Deputy Langlois and co have let them in for.
You never know there might be fullsome support for the settlement.
Report abuse
Misinformed No
Spouting off not really just a comment but if you AFS linked posters have something to hide carry on.
Firefighters they work in Town and have nothing to do with the Airport Fire Fighters but get rubbished all the same on account of people being lazy and stating the “FireFighters” all the time.
misinformed and spouting rubbish carry on
Report abuse
SM
What’s your grouse about?
If it is all open and above board, then what is wrong with letting the people who pay your wages know what’s going on.
You held the people to ransom, they replied, and now you want to hise it asll under the carpet:
I hope more people slate off as you call mit.
Remember Honest is the pointb in question.
Report abuse
I agree with the latter posts here,yes indeed as tax payers we should have clarity from our elected Politicians and no doubt with a bit of patience, the information requested for by the media and yourselves will more than likely become available in the near future.I do, as stated in an earlier post think that at conclusion of the Tribunal, many of the reasons/mis-management of the Airport debacle will become apparent and answer many of the queries.
J. Whether Airport Firefighters or Town Firefighters, the generic would be Firefighter,we don,t need to be pedantic.Unfortunately as posted earlier the misinformed few,just don’t or won’t ever understand the subtlties between the two.
Report abuse
Its the tax payers money, have a backbone and tell us the agreement, remember we put you in office.
Report abuse
i heard about how much they are going to get from my sons mate 3 weeks ago,theres me no rise for the second consectutive year, wish i was a good few years younger
Report abuse
Hey Steve calm down! following a conversation with one of your colegues in a local public house last evening, i cant understand why your getting upset at the end of the day you,ve got yourselves an excellent deal At the end of the day you,ve blackmailed the paymasters and won. The current PSRC should be embarrased for what they have given into and i hope that every other states group can expect the same deal.
PS. I was told whatyou have settled for but i shall keep it to myself as i promised your work mate.
Report abuse
SM, seriously, calm down darling or it will be an early medical discharge with an ulcer.
“”Here we go, slag off the firefighters time again. If we won’t agree or settle the negotiations we get slated and are being greedy. We come to an agreement and we get slated and are being greedy. Grow up and get over it.”"
Wow.
That really shows that you actually haven’t read any of the posts before yours and just came on here expecting that our non-gender specific, hard working airport oxidation support staff were being ridiculed again.
Sorry not this time. It’s government secrecy that we really don’t like silly.
Report abuse
Not a massive fan of what’s been going on, but I wish people would stop banging on about “we pay your wages, so tell us how much you earn”. Is that what you tell a copper when he pulls you over and you don’t like it?
“You” pay the wages for the garages you get your petrol at, the shop you buy your food at etc etc, but “you” don’t think you should know how much the staff or bosses earn. What more right do you have to know what coal face staff get in any publicly funded job.
It’s a terrible justification as we all pay for everyones’ wages one way or another. Fine to disagree with the spirit of the people in question, but let’s not try to force them to tell everyone how much they have to support their families on.
Report abuse
The are just to embarrassed,
They don’t want the public to know how bigger ransom the islands has been held to..
Report abuse
billythefish
Your out of the water with your silly remarks of how other people are not asked about their wages.
The whole point is they have blackmailed the stupid Governing body into giving in to their demands, and it is the taxpayer who will have to pay up.
Once they get away with this, then like all blackmailers they’ll come back again and again.
I suggest that now this government can only save face by training other fire fighters then get rid of the lot who are there now.
at the same time the Islanders also should be rid of the Government for giving in to blackmail.
Black mail is an offence and punishable,
Where are the lawyer now? why aren’t they charged with the crime?
Report abuse
Eric
They’re not silly remarks at all mate, no more than your post which is silly in that it doesn’t address the point I was making.
You have no details about the settlement, have jumped to conclusions about the PSRC (by the way,which one are you calling stupid? Jon le Tocq’s, Al Brouard’s or Alistair Longlois?) and are running around making headless chicken accusations, the very thing you appear to be accusing others of doing.
You haven’t answered my question – what gives you the right to know what the men are paid?
Report abuse
The new rates are quoted on the latest article:
However, a source told the Guernsey Press at the weekend that firefighters had agreed to an additional £2,300 per man over the two years plus £900 each time they have to attend training or refresher courses. It is also believed the agreement would pay them £60 for every day they are scheduled to have off but on which they ‘agree’ to be on standby in case a watch falls short. They would then get paid overtime on top if they actually worked the shift.
Now the PSRC need to come clean very quickly and explain them to stop the rumours and inaccuracies getting out of hand, but as usual i doubt that will happen.
Report abuse
Mrs P.
When I submitted my post there were only two comments. I interpreted the ‘mask wearing’ reference as a dig at us if I was mistaken and it was directed at the States then apologies. If the reference to us losing experienced members of staff as being pathetic was also directed at the States then I apologise again. Maybe over the last three or four years I have developed an itchy trigger finger from defending against copious amounts of inaccuracies and unfounded accusations. Normally it only takes one dig before the rest of the sheep follow with the usual script.
Very few if not all of us thought it was a bad idea to be putting together a press release giving the impression that everything was all sorted and signed but they went ahead anyway. It looks to me like it will be sorted once and for all but no point making statements now, best wait until everything is signed sealed and delivered.
Eric
Good one!
bcb
Quite a lot has changed from previous offers to what is on offer now. For a start one of the ‘offers’ from the old PSRC actually resulted in a pay cut when it was looked through carefully. Give them credit, it was worth a try and they would no doubt have been hailed as heroes had they got us to sign up for that one. We might not be geniuses up at the Airport but they should give us some credit.
Report abuse
@ Billythefish.
Excellent post re what right do we have to ask how much they are getting paid. I totally agree.
People seem to think that once we’ve paid our taxes it is still our money. Well, here’s the pinch – IT IS NOT!! Quite right that we should be entitled to some sort of an idea, and say on what our taxes get spent on – but salaries should remain confidential between employer and employee – in the same way private sector employees enjoy their right to confidentiality.
Report abuse
SM
The point i wanted to make was, Was the offer avaliable to make by the previous psrc on behalf of the employer? if not why is it now? were they able too? It just seems to me the way it is being played is to make them look as though they were the only ones to blame?. Maybe the employer PSD should be looked at a bit more closely? imo i think they have got a lot more to do with this than we think.
Report abuse
No no billythefish.
you are the one that is wrong;
‘you quote about private persons not being asked how much they earn; that is another altogether scenario.
The question is about a public works paid for by Taxpayers money:
We have the right to know how it is at times squandered,
I’m not interested in the amount paid out; my moan is the way it has been made public that the people have no rights to know how this sordid affair has developed. and will it recur every so often knowing that no one will dispute it
It’s like a small child who screams if they don’t get their own way; so what are these people Small children?
This case is one of the worst ever heard; I doubt if it would hold in a court of law.
The reason I say that (not because of the amount you will receive) but because it was a case of blackmail, I quote not exact words but same meaning
Pay up or we’ll go on strike; that Billthefish is blackmail_ or demanding money under duress, it’s a crime and should be treated as such.
A word to the EU advocates might answer my question.
Report abuse
Obviously I can’t speak for the PSRC as to whether or not they could have offered this before but I don’t see why they couldn’t. I suppose I will tend to be biased against them though so hopefully we can find out via an independent party.
Report abuse
SM
You say that you don`t know whether they could have offered the same deal? so in fact you dont really know if they would have or not? (didn`t psd turn down the £4000 ?) But you also say you are biased towards them? wouldn`t it have been better to reach such a conclusion only when you were aware of all the facts? Maybe everything they put on offer was as much as they were able to offer?.
I just feel the old psrc have been made a scapegoat in this to take attention from certain others (not the firemen).
In comes a new psrc which are given more to offer, i think we can work the rest out.
Report abuse
What I meant when I said I don’t know if they could have offered the same or not is that I don’t know how they work or what they are allowed to do. Having seen how some of the old members worked and hearing some of the derogatory comments they made towards us in previous negotiations it wouldn’t surprise me if they could have easily made the offer but were just too stubborn to do it. Like I said I am obviously going to be negative towards them and cynical. It is certainly possible that they had or weren’t allowed to give anymore but again I am only guessing. Not working for the PSRC I don’t know anything for absolute certain.
Report abuse
Gary Blanchford,
should not read everything in the press, there is no way we would of settled for that. I would of rather waited until May and drop the category again!
I could not care less what assumptions you guys come to as we all know what assumption is dont we.
One thing I do know is at least the new PSRC are willing to discuss and negotiate which the old body could not. Not content with messing up the whole airport pay talks we now have the pleasure of listening to that muppet al brouard talking about killing people off early.
Anyhow totally bored now, so this is my final visit to this site on this subject, I am now going to spend my christmas off planning on what to do with my new riches. Kind of feel like I have won the Christmas lottery. Cheers.
P.s. Anyone wanting to find out the package then you could always apply if able to get in!
Report abuse
I agree with most of the posts on the thread regarding the fact that the deal should be made public, we are not asking for individual salaries, but whatever has been brokered, as a public service the public have a right to know the outline of the pacakge.
Geoff
Congratulations for doing even more damage to FF- Public Relations. I hope that your colleagues thanks you in kind for your pathetically childish comments.
I hope thats not how you conduct day to day yourself I dread to think of what would happen in the event of an actual airport catastrophe.
Report abuse
Geoff
I heard the same comments about Al Brouard while the debate was in progress. And i can tell you he is no muppet and comeing out with your latest remark about killing people just about sums your attitude up.
Maybe you can enlighten us as to what was made avaliable to you through the old psrc (were they able to give you what you wanted?) and the new one before you cast total blame? I have tried to ask SM but he doesen`t seem to know.
Report abuse
Geoff’s comments just about sums up this whole sorry debacle for me.
I personally know fireman from the Airport who left because they were bored, so that just about sums up the extremely difficult working environment they must have been facing!
I also know many Firemen from the Arsenal who I frequently rib about saving cats from trees etc. but at least underneath the mocking is an appreciation of what they actually do day to day.
It seems that all Airport Firemen can do is post pathetic replies attempting to justify their actions, play darts, snooker, cards and turn over fire tenders on the runway!
What value for money!
Report abuse