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Spartacus How dare you! You don't know me from Adam. On what basis to I lack "personal discipline and self control?" Is it merely because I dare to disagree with you and won't kowtow to your pathetic childish behaviour? Why it only you with whom I have this problem? Why do you have this problem with multiple other posters on TIG? I think you need to look carefully in the mirror and self-reflect when you accuse others of "lacking personal discipline and self control". For what its worth, no I wasn't brought up "poor or disadvantaged". I went to a parish primary school and I passed the 11-plus (not fee paid) to go to Grammar School. But that's totally irrelevant. I grew up with and was very close friends with many who were certainly "poor and disadvantaged", growing up on some of the worst of the island's housing estates. But they knew how to behave. Their parents made sure that they knew how to behave. Their parents took responsibility for them. It has NOTHING to do with being "poor or disadvantaged". It has EVERYTHING to do with parents taking responsibility for their children, and with teachers being able to enforce discipline at school. That's what is very sadly lacking today.