On the buses
Thursday 11th August 2011, 2:30PM BST.
THE news that bus use has fallen by 6% – or 100,000 bums on seats – in the year following the big hike in fares comes as no surprise. Put another way, the island’s progress in tempting people onto the buses has been set back about three years. It’s all hugely disappointing, but it’s also difficult not to have sympathy for the Environment Department, which found itself between a rock and a hard place.
On the one hand, it’s vital to encourage the use of public transport. Indeed, it should be a prime strategic aim.
Strangely, the main beneficiaries aren’t the bus users themselves, even though converts quickly find it’s a superbly stress-free way to travel. Rather, the biggest gainers from increased bus use are private motorists, commercial drivers and the taxpayer. The advantages of fewer cars on the road and less pressure on public parking are obvious. Not only do motorists benefit, but it also lessens the need for constant, expensive upgrading of our road network.
The problem in the local context is that most of those whom Island Coachways aims to tempt through its green and yellow doors are not carless. True, the bus service is an absolutely vital lifeline for those who can’t drive for whatever reason. But in an island of sky-high car ownership, this core group alone can’t provide the economies of scale the bus company needs.
In order to achieve critical mass – and to make a real difference to our congested roads – public transport has to tempt car owners to leave their vehicles at home sometimes and let the bus take the strain. That’s particularly true of those who commute daily into St Peter Port. All the evidence of the last few years is that a significant number of islanders are willing to do just that – but only if the buses are really, really cheap. After all, with a car that’s already been paid for sitting in your drive, it doesn’t take too high a bus fare to become a real disincentive.
That’s where Environment’s natural policy objective of reducing car use crashes headlong into the stark reality of Guernsey’s overwhelming political priority of the moment – saving money. While it was a bit unedifying to see the department running scared of external consultants and slavishly following their exact dictates over how to reduce expenditure, the hard reality remains. With a global States deficit and huge pent-up demand for extra heath care provision, nursery education and other such priority services, the Environment Department had to do its bit to cut spending.
The bus subsidy was an obvious, soft target. I personally think it was the wrong area for cuts. But it’s a political truism that everybody always wants government spending reduced but they never agree with the individual economies proposed – ‘Surely there must be somewhere else you could save money?’
Anyway, the reality is that bus fares are not going back down again. The important thing now is how Guernsey’s public transport strategy is taken forward from here.
This should be a period of great opportunity to grow passenger numbers on the buses. Petrol prices seem to be on a relentless upward spiral and many islanders will be looking to use their cars a little less often.
Having lost 6% of trade at a time when it naturally should have been growing strongly, it’s now time for Island Coachways and Environment to draft a clear joint plan to consolidate the existing passenger base and to start growing it again.
Two parts of that plan are obvious. Bus services must stay affordable, with no more big fare hikes. Just as importantly, the service must be very reliable. Nothing is more likely to deter passengers – who have alternatives open to them – than uncertainty over the bus coming on time.
The period since Island Coachways took over the local bus contract has been characterised by impressive reliability. The buses may not have been as frequent as islanders wanted, or run as late, but they were nearly always on time. This year that has started to slip and that trend must be rectified pronto.
As for the financial levers for tempting people onto the buses – well, the carrot of ultra-low fares was always supposed to be only one half of the equation. Now that’s been diluted, it’s even more important to look again at the other side – paid parking.
This House? Difficult decision? Election year? I know, I’m being silly.
Shaun Shackleton
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Picking on the 400? 10 and 5 hour pier parkers and continually singling them out as the reason we have congestion or that public transport has failed is beyond ridiculous.
Divide 400 cars x the 3 main routes that come into town then spread them over the 2 hour drive in period.
What effect would even the most negligible effect that paid parking might have on their driving habits have on the buses or the rush hour. Absolutely none.
Where I agree with him is that petrol hikes should, but don’t seem to have, changed the driving habits of Guernsey: maybe it does on a Saturday or Sunday but hasn’t on the 7-9 commute and is never likely to. Does Peter think that we just drive from home to work, without dropping off children or running errands etc, or, heaven forbid, needing our cars at lunchtime or the for the 3pm child pick up?
Peter Roffey started at his conclusion and worked his way back to the beginning again.
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Neil:
Did you not notice this sentence (5th paragraph) in P.R’s piece, especially the last word…. ‘sometimes’.
“public transport has to tempt car owners to leave their vehicles at home sometimes”
The other sentence that pinged out at me was this one: (6th paragraph)…… “Guernsey’s overwhelming political priority of the moment – saving money”. Which begs the question, why then did they merrily vote through an £80m+ airport project which is so much bigger than is absolutely necessary.
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Has anyone worked out why the morning congestion disappears when the schools are closed?
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Could it be in part that Elizabeth and Ladies’ Colleges do not run dedicated bus services?
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I didn’t need to Rosie, all I had to do was read the predictable last sentence.
Paid Parking as proposed last time, effectivley Salarie and North Beach and I believe some part of Havelet and La Valette remains a weak knee jerk action that singles out only a minority of the commuting public.
It is what it is Rosie a snide proposal that completely ignore the elephant in the room and that being the schools and commercial traffic.
Neither of you having the cahonas to take on the commercial nor the schools so continue to fixate on piers – probaly because its easy and, like Peter, nor any of the other Deputies that voted last time you don’t work in town do you/they?
Understand Rosie; charging the pier users for using those spaces will do nothing at all to help the buses, reduce carbon foot print or change the habits of the Guernsey driver – where Peter is right, and you have touched on before, only the rise in fuel costs may, and that’s just a may, have some impact.
Instead of picking on the commuters, why don’t one of your groups come up with a strategy? Guernsey Bus does a good a job as it can in an island of lanes and yellow lines and a working population that don’t do all of their activities on the road outside of their house.
Come up with a priced up strategy Rosie; you are very good at criticising, put pen to paper and come up with a solution.
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Neil:
It seems strange to critise an opinion if you can’t be bothered to read it all. His article is about the need to improve public transport and encourage greater use of it….. not for every journey, but ‘sometimes’. I don’t think there is a lot to argue about with that. The answer will not be found in one solution but in a variety of ways and paid parking could be a part of that to, a.)contrabute towards the funding that is needed, and b.) to contrabute towards a greater disincentive to always using the car. That is not a ‘criticism’ but a suggestion for part of the solution.
I did spend a considerable amount of time responding to Environments consultation on a CO2 vehicle tax and again for their Bus Fare Rise consultation, both of which I suspect were put on a very high shelf in the stationary cupboard. In both instances, my responses were not about ‘critising’ but suggested solutions.
You and I have debated at length about this topic in the past and I have just re-read through some of those posts to look for where I ‘criticise’ without giving a reasoned argument or without solutions. Sorry- can’t find them!
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Yep, sorry about the appalling spelling, I’m just not as well educated as you.
Encouragement of public transport has a cost, you either subsidise it massively as has been the case, or you start looking at measures such as paid parking.
Guernsey simply isn’t a public transport island anymore, the affluence of the Island being the most obvious indicator, along with the layout of the Island, weather and family lifestyles.
This is how you will get paid parking Rosie; for the life of me I have no idea why you and Peter are so fixated with it, as it clearly will be unfairly punitive against a minority of Islanders and will be amended to the point where the hourly rate will be almost make paid parking pointless (it was last time) it won’t raise a ha’peth for the buses; will get swallowed into general revenue ( the smoking tax was) and neither will it have one iota of a difference to the morning or evening rush hour.
If you support the commercialisation of the harbours you can get your paid parking by the back door. Harbour gets commercialised, they control the piers, new 150k Chief Exec has to ‘raise revenue’, he/she will take ownership of the piers and voila, you have the paid parking. Unfortunatley though, that still won’t go to any ITS as it will be a revenue stream for the new commercialised Harbour – I believe commercialisation of the harbours is a stated PSD intention isn’t it?
You and Peter get your paid parking, a few of the commuters are punsihed, both Rosie and Peter can sleep safely, knowing that all they have done is get one over on a small percentage of the car users.
I apologise for any spelling errors or punctuation in the above paragraphs ;-)
I look forward to your costed ITS plan, just the basics but one that is fair to all – not just us poor mugs that drive to town because government put the schools, the harbour, the retails and the majority of the island workers in a half square mile. – oh – and one of the main North South thoroughfares – forgot about that one.
Hows’ my ponctuation and spilling?
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Has anyone worked out why Jersey is more congested than us despite having had paid parking for more than twenty years?
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Neil:
Spelling??? What’s that about? You lost me there I’m afraid!
Believe it or not Neil, I don’t particularly relish the idea of paid parking… I simply see it as one of the tools in the box to counteract the dominance of the car on our roads, and crucially, to provide some of the funding needed for a truely viable public transport system. (To do that, monies raised would have to be ring-fenced and not swallowed up by General Revenue.)
Without a public public transport system that is accessible for all and fit for purpose, there is no choice but to use the car for all journeys, as you yourself have said. It is then not possible to make the choice to cut travelling costs by leaving the car at home.
Ray: I suspect because they have ensured that there is always plentiful parking.
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Rosie, unless time has dimmed my memory, I beleive that you have been in favour of paid parking; certainly in these forums anyway.
Did the SoG not put 1.6p (or something) on a litre of fuel to cover the costs of the busses or some part of the public transport policy?
If the uptake on the buses has not been as required by some and given the fact that Guernsey Bus has done what it can within a reasonable budget, lots of advertising and state subsidy, what does that tell you about Guernsey and how we fit Public Transport into this small rock? To me, there appears to be a mass that has already been attained and that’s all Guernsey is ever going to achieve.
The Public Transport Utopia, yes I’ve been to Europe too, simply will not happen without a massive investment in infrastructure along with hugely punitive charges on car ownership. Neither of which is going to happen and would not have happened even when we had a 90million surplus.
Your traffic reduction will only come from higher fuel costs and possibly technological changes – but for the next 20 years I predict the combustion engine still the king of the roads. And I say that with no hint of smugness – just the reality of our affluent car driving Island.
So we are where we are – we drive cars. That’s what Guernsey does and the Public Transport system has to work it’s way around that, not the other way around.
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Has anyone worked out how many vehicles adding to the morning congestion are being driven to private underground car parks in Town?
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Ray
If congestion is one of the issues then again it has little to do with pier parkers. Having had an office on the town front for some 10 years it’s remarkable the amount of traffic that continues to flow north and south past the so-called rush hour periods.
They used to be, morning, school run and end of day; it’s all merged in to one. I’d also add it seems to have got progressively worse over the past 5 years, but I’m sure someone with a rubber tube and a traffic counter can correct or affirm that.
So tell me, what has any of this congestion and subsequent carbon output got to do with the pier parkers? We drive we park up we switch our engines off.
So I say again, have the cahonas to take on the whole of the island, and Islanders as a driving public rather than just a small portion of that mass of drivers.
And as you point out in one of your posts I find it intriguing that everyone who commutes to town knows that the school runners are hugely more significant at the 8.30 time slot as opposed to the most of the 10 hour slots that are taken up by 8pm – we’re all parked up by the time the main ‘congestion’ starts.
So the question has to be asked as neither Peter nor Rosie are stupid; why do they continue to single out the commuters? I can only assume we are an easy hit; god help ‘em if they tried to take on the child carrying mums of the Private Schools eh?
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Neil
……we drive, we park up we switch our engines off (using a ten hour slot). Whenever it is suggested that these parkers use alternative transport, cycle, walk, jog or whatever the cries come up that cars are needed to do one hundred and one other small errands throughout the day. Make your minds up. Those people who fill the car parks for the entire day are the ones who are correctly targeted as they have alternatives. At least, as Rosie has suggested on some occasions.
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Burdock
Not everyone leaves there cars parks for 10 hours per day. There is actually quite a large turn over of those spaces through the day – all observational of course, from years of working in town. But yes I accept that some could use public transport, but I stil beleive the critical mass has been achieved, give or take, without people reverting to ‘get the commuters’. We then have to balance the cost to ‘encourage’ users to get on Public Transport vs. the cost, effort an resources to do that. In my view the Bus compoany has done everything it can and we are where we are.
In any event, serves the same, the commuters are an easy target; they contribute nothing to any ‘congestion’ clearly don’t burn that much carbon as those that sit in long lines from the 8.10-8.45 period (if that’s one of the issues).
And as proposed last time they are the only part of the commuting public that are penalised in any way?
Commercials – Silence. Schools – Silence. Company car parks – Silence.
Simple question(s) then – is it fair to single them out? Or is it just expedient?
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Has anyone worked out what the hourly rate would have to be to cover the costs of all the extra manpower and admin that paid parking will bring?
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Neil: In favour? -yes. Relish the idea of?- no. I simply recognise that it could be one of the tools used to achieve the necessary aims.
The SoG did put a charge on fuel but did not ‘ring-fence it, so the money collected disappears into the depths of general funding- never to be seen again.
I am not in the least bit suprised that bus passenger numbers have declined- the incentives to use the car are too great. My reasons for thinking that public transport should be improved and encouraged are several, though none of them are to do with attaining some sort of ‘Utopia’, as you put it.
As the cost of living escalates,…. which it will do as sure as eggs are eggs, it will become increasingly important that the choice to leave your car at home (and save money) is feasible for anyone who wants to. If we do not have a properly funded and viable bus service, then too many people do not have that choice.
I totally agree with you that commuters should not be the only ones carrying the can. And you are right to say that often they use their cars less than people who tool around in them all day on a 101 different little errands. That is why I think it best if there are a variety of different measures in place to make sure that everyone contributes when they use there cars. So yes, keep the fuel charge too. I would also bring back a sliding scale car tax, the cost of which should be dependent on emissions, size and weight of the vehicle.
Ray: I think that in the UK you will find that office parking is a taxable perk.
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I am sure the bus price rise has had an adverse affect on the bus use.
I used to take my grandchildren quite often on the bus for a trip to town or wherever, he is 4 years old, I pay a full fare for him, when last time I got on the bus at the Bridge to Town and he had to sit on my lap because I felt guilty him taking a seat,(although he had paid) while an old lady was standing.
Also staggered fares are much more sensible, £1.00 to the Longstore and £1.00 to go right around the island, this does not seem right to me.
I am back in my car.
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‘Impressive reliability on the buses, Shaun?’ You have spent the last year or so on Guernsey, have you? Or are we talking about your native Yorkshire/’
A the moment a rudderless boat or a riderless horse have more sense of direction and management than Island Coachways. Island Coachways offer a ‘public service’? Should be prosecuted under the Trades Description Act. Or is that something else Guiernsey doesn’t have?
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One of the main causes of congestion in the Rohais are the many four by fours which are exiting from the Ladies College in the Gravee. This problem seems to vanish when the Schools are on Holiday,and strangely enough, so do most of the other traffic problemsin this Island. Why not provide School buses for the little darlings at the Colleges,as well as the other Schools,and ban all parking at all schools as well.
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Rosie – office (or any other private parking) is not currently a taxable “perk”. It was considered but luckily someone with a brain cell realised that if this was applied to office wokers in town it would also have to apply to the poo cart driver who leaves his car at States Works on the Bridge.
The same logic has to apply to paid parking – you simply cannot punatively penalise town long term parkers and not those who use St Sampsons, St Martins or anywhere else.
As I’ve argued before there is no difference in someone driving to work and parking and someone driving to the beach and parking.
We either go the UK route of charging for parking everywhere or we don’t do it all. There are no half measures.
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Loving Rays posts in this thread
Just as much as I have been loving the stress free drive to my private work car parking space during the holidays without all of the 4×4′s driven by glammed up mums with one child in the back.
Meanwhile their next door neighbour driving a similar car with a child of the same age is in traffic behind them, going to the same school. Pureley so that they can compare notes on the latest model BMW and who has and hasnt got it of course when they arrive. (Dont beleive it happens?? Just ask!! This behaivour isnt just confined to the “posh” schools either)
I’ll get back on my pushang when school starts again!
If there is any group we should be trying to get onto the buses, it isnt the commuters, but we are an easy target afterall.
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If someone with half a brain got hold of this whole issue (which admittedly rules out Island Coachways, and the States as well) the solution would be clear for all to see.
Have various drop off points around the island for the two colleges and the Grammar School, from which buses would bring the kids in, with no facility for parents or pupils to drive into the schools themselves. Anyone found to be dropping people off (in what would be no waiting zones around all 3 schools) would be hit with a considerable fine, which would double each time they were caught, with possible driving bans as well. Perhaps some kids might even discover how to ride a pusbike, or, heaven forbid, walk. Either way the reduction in traffic would be considerable, as evidenced each time the schools are on holiday. The parents and kids would soon get used to the idea, they’d have to, or alternatively face the consequences. It is not a basic human right to ferry children from door to door in Chelsea tractors, full stop.
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Sorry Target the schools but that has to be the dumbest idea I have heard in some time.
In much the same vein as no one has a human right to ferry children from door to door in chelsea tractors (something of a generalisation, possibly) you dont have the right to dictate such draconian measures
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Target the schools.
Seems like a great idea. Not too sure where the drop off points could be though. I would also like to point out that not all parents drive ‘chelsea tractors’.
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I was once daft enough to get caught up in the morning stop start traffic in the Gravees outside the Rocquettes Hotel heading into Town
It was only as I was in sight of the junction by St Stephens Church that I realised what was causing the stop start problem … cars ahead of me were pulling up at a point level with this junction and disgorging their Ladies College passengers with their school books,musical instruments and hockey sticks before driving off.. the car immediately behind then moved up that single car length before also pulling up at this ‘unofficial disembarkation point’to drop off its passengers..and a third car did exactly the same thing!
Each one probably took no more than twenty seconds but the three I saw held up heavy traffic for a full minute,probably adding another ten or fifteen vehicles to the tail end of this slow moving queue
Could do with the occasional visit by the Constabulary to give advice
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It’s pretty obvious paid parking will not change anything. The increase of the price of fuel (driven by the rising price of fuel and not the increase driven by the abolition of road tax) has not seen any noticeable reduction in car use.
The most logical idea would be make the school day start later (or earlier).
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Someone please tell me WHY, since I understand that Island Coachways contract is coming up for renewal, the Environment Dept don’t just put it out to tender and give the job to a company which understands the meaning of management and customer service.
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Target the Schools
Coachways don’t control the timetable – that is set by the Environment dept.
So I fail to see how they would be able to ban cars from schools and introduce a completely new schools bus service ( which is Educations problem … I doubt very much they listen to any other States departments, let alone a private company with no power to do anything )
And where does this notion that traffic only builds up when the schools are open come from ? How do the schools closing at 3 cause the traffic jams between 5 and 6 every evening. And the ones in the middle of the day. And the ones on Saturdays …..
The only way to get people on the buses more would be to make them cheaper and more frequent. And that would take more money. And many of us don’t like the 2 million a year wasted on it already ….
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Ray
Try getting around the odeon car park at around 4pm (pavement or road), you cant drive past because the road is blocked with the car loading. (Car by car I might add, lets not have the kiddies walking a few feet so that 2 cars can be filled at once!!)
Also if you are on foot the kids groups take up the whole pavement and pride themselves in not moving for passing by.
Yes its commuters who are the problem!!
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I’ve been using a scooter since December, £5 a week on fuel rather than £5 a day in my BMW 740, no worries about congestion, or parking, the money I saved on fuel means the bike has paid for itself and I’m now saving money. Major unexpected benefit…. driving a car in Guernsey hasn’t been fun for years, riding a scooter or a motorbike still is (I now have one of those as well). I work at three different sites and travel between them during the day, even if I could get a bus when necessary it would theoretically cost me £8 a day to do what my scooter does for £1 door-to-door.
I am local, but lived in the UK for several years – I remember well Ken Livingstone’s GLC ‘Fares Fare’ policy, made London an inexpensive, simpler place to navigate.
http://www.bilderberg.org/farefare.htm
The GLC’s goal was eventual FREE public transport in London. I remember well the difference when the GLC was forced to drop ‘fares Fare’ and raise prices, radical difference day-on-day in ‘bums-on-seats’.
Would we see a massive increase in Bus usage if it was free in Guernsey? I suspect we would. Would people be prepared to pay a penny extra on fuel to fund it? Why not? You’d only have to take one free bus journey a week to feel you’d ‘got your money back’.
Maybe too radical.
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Dave Haslam
Playing the role of ‘Devil’s Advocate’ here where do you suggest the parents collecting their boys from College should park to do so? I don’t see many spare spaces in the vicinity in the Odeon or the surrounding streets, do you?
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Tony
It all depends on what you class as a traffic jam
I can’t say that I have ever been caught up in more than slight delays on a Saturday
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So on balance, most people agree that the pier parkers contribute little to the over all traffic problems and that charging them will have little or no impact on any congestion.
Blimey, got there in the end!
…………………….
@Charlie, I’ve been considering doing something like that for a long time, you may just have inspired me to bite the bullet on that one.
I’d be interested in seeing a two/three month scheme whereby the fares are actually free, if for nothing else to prove that there would be only a marginal effect on island wide traffic flow/congestion.
We are, I am afraid, umbilically attached to our cars.
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Tony
Actually I do remember some difficulties getting to B&Q on a couple of Saturdays,but that’s not due to traffic saturation,that’s due to B&Q not being allowed to sell me a paintbrush on a Sunday
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@Neil
You really should try scootering in. It’s so liberating, being able to motor into town on your own two wheels knowing that you’ll always find a space. Admittedly not so much fun in the winter but that’s when I turn to the bus (I cycle throughout the year but not usually when on a ‘business’ trip).
@Everyone else
I don’t think we need pay parking to reverse the recent trend away from bus use. Just start reducing the amount of commuter spaces in the town centre, starting with the Crown Pier, which has the potential to be a lovely little car free asset.
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Neil you are right about Guerns being umbilically attached to their cars. ANY island that can cram 80,000 vehicles into 30 square miles has to be umbilically attached to the things.
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It’s spelt “believe” Neil.
Just to help with your spelling. :)
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Sanguine, If we’re being picky “Spelt (Triticum spelta) is a hexaploid species of wheat” (Wikipedia)
I believe the word you are grasping for is ‘spelled’.
Just to help with your spelling. :)
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Beanjar,
If we are being extra picky, both ‘spelt’ and ‘spelled’ are acceptable as the past participle of ‘spell’.
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Burdock
I expect them to use the buses, maybe they could use the stop which is 20 metres away from the entrance of the school perhaps??
But if you must drive to show off your car, I dont see why you cant pull over on the stretch of road infront of RBC, as opposed to not pulling out of the main traffic stream at all (which is the point I was making in response to Rays similar issue), and just stopping and waiting whilst the queue builds up behind you, god forbid you lose your place in traffic. Some parents actually have the decency to pull over here, this allows for other road users to get past. Other parents also “inconvenience” themselves, by driving up around the car park and picking their children up there.
I’d also expect the kids to let others use the pavement, but then lets not hope for miracles eh?
Beanjar
Both “spelt” and “spelled” can be used in Sanguines comment, the “ed” ending is more American English I beleive, but either usage is fine.
So given we are nearer the home of the English language, I’d go with spelt.
And you really must steer clear of Wikipedia for English advice!!
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“the carrot of ultra-low fares was always supposed to be only one half of the equation.”
So with no ultra-low fares, how about a better (possibly even half decent!) service?
I would also echo a previous point – if Tribal’s forecast saving didn’t materialise, we should be taking back some of their payment!
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Martino
The Crown Pier is for shoppers surely, not commuters? How many people work a 2 hour day?
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I didn’t explain my thoughts fully Phil. I’d like to see the Crown made into a little car free oasis in the middle of Town and the ‘lost’ ‘shopper’ spaces relocated to North Beach, which would, in turn, lose as many ‘commuter’ spaces.
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Here we go again, paid parking back on the agenda. it didn’t take roffey long.
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Martino
That would be followed by a shop free oasis in the High Street
If someone could find room for a one hundred or so shopper car park in the Trinity Square area that end of Town would really spring back into life ( not meaning to take anything away from the excellent efforts already being made by the shopkeepers in that area)
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I disagree Ray. We should take a leaf out of the Danish book and REDUCE the number of parking spaces little by little to reinvigorate our town – just like the Danes have done with Copenhagen.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2011/07/110713-cutting-down-on-city-parking/
PS I do agree pay parking won’t work. It hasn’t in St Helier
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Bring in paid parking
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It creases me up whenever I read things about traffic congestion – can somebody please explain the difference between driving a 4 x 4 and a family saloon car which in essence have the same foot print albeit the 4 x 4 is higher (and yes I do drive a 4 x 4!). It is still 1 car on the road whatever the make or model and I for one would not fancy taking a smart car to the UK or France for my holidays so unless someone has one they could let me have for free I will continue to drive my 4 x 4 in the Island. I think all will agree the worst times for getting stuck in traffic is school drop off and pick off times so why not make more of them catch the bus or even walk like we used to…
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karen
I will try.
Most women cant drive the things.
confront one in a lane and you`ll see what i mean :) they just sit there looking from left to right then behind them then repeat the whole process followed by a stare at the other driver and wait for you to back up.
Hope this helps.
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Karen, the difference is in the width of the vehicle. Two normal width vehicles can pass without stopping on many occasions where, if one or both are wider, (as most 4x4s are) it is necessary to slow down, stop or even reverse.
This adds to congestion as the cars spend longer on the roads. When I changed from a wider vehicle to one that was about a foot narrower, I could not believe the difference and nothing would persuade me to go back to a big (wide) car again.
hth
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I was discusing taking the bus today, and someone said they would take it, but they don’t want to walk 10/15 minutes from home to/from the nearest stop every day.
So they drive, park at the Salerie, and walk for 10/15 minutes to/from work every day ….
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Martino
Not a bad read I suppose,but mainly from professor X or professor Y speaking from their ivory towers with underground parking
Not much input from the people actually affected by the loss of spaces
Perhaps a couple of Town shopkeepers might wish to comment on your Crown Pier oasis suggestion
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@sanguine
Funny boy :-)
@Future Deputy
Do you take any campaign advice?
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