Pay really is a big deal for workers
Wednesday 2nd July 2008, 2:30PM BST.
MOST Guernsey workers are unsatisfied with their salary, according to a recruitment specialist.
Focus HR Solutions director Becky Machon (pictured) said most employees felt they were underpaid, despite receiving higher wages than their UK counterparts.
A poll by Jobsite.co.uk has found that most British workers think they need £38,000 a year to live free of money worries due to rising fuel and other costs. The average Guernsey salary is some 20% higher than the UK’s, according to the latest figures.
Mrs Machon said she thought people here tended to be quite secretive when it came to how much they earned. ‘I think there is a lack of understanding when it comes to the true value of jobs and whether people are fairly paid. Due to the difficulties the island has with recruitment, it’s probably also fair to say that we have to offer competitive salaries in order to recruit and retain good staff.’
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If there were less immigrant workers there would be more jobs for LOCALS why can you not see the problems this has and is causing.They are monopolising everything and us LOCALS are forever losing out for goodness sake open your eyes they are ruining the island.I have many friends who are from the mainland who are disgusted with how over the last ten years the island has gone down hill and will not set foot on the island again now what does that tell you?
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Re the above
That tells me that successive electorates have voted for politicians that believe in economic growth against social stability. That said, Guernsey has to rely on non local workforces (not immigrants) otherwise the system would collapse.
They do not monopolise everything, that’s just a UK Daily Mail myth.
More pertinently, if Guernsey were to tax the rich more and distribute corporate wealth directly into infrastructure projects manned by the lower paid then some societal progress would be made and we could all get along, no?
The housing problem could be alleviated by a punitive Inheritance Tax/Capital Gains Tax to deter speculators and to incentivise the young to learn what earning money is all about.
Unfortunately for us locals, the poorer non local people who come here and work hard know all the more about the value of money, whilst we fritter it on short term luxury and capital hoarding.
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Yeah this is a tough one for young employees due to aspirations from childhood that won’t be reached. If going to the job centre isn’t rewarding enough then getting that dream job you needed never comes, then there is a lot of emotional stress.
I think mature employees still suffer but at least they understand the turn-buckle and force themselves to understand the true value of jobs.
I am from Portsmouth and we have only three job centers for the city. It can be very stressful, and more hours can be spent looking for a job than actually time in paid employment.
Degrees are helpful for a gradual push in to a career but the loan fiasco might put the non-academic off. Media seems to be controlling a lot of our (government) decisions. This is not good, so switch off the tele and have a look around. It’s not so bad outside.
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The way the survey is reported isn’t entirely accurate. What people actually said was that they felt they would need around 40-50% more than they presently earned to be worry-free. Since the average full-time UK salary is around £24-26k, that’s where the headline figure of £38k comes from.
But the crucial point is that pretty much everyone thinks they’d need to earn more to be worry-free – however much they’re earning at the moment! So if you ask people earning £38k how much they’d need to earn to be worry-free, they give an even higher figure.
In other words, the survey doesn’t tell us how much money we actually need, but instead tells us that we all think we’d be happier if we had more money.
Beware statistics!
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Of coarse many Guernsey employees are unhappy with their salaries because they probhably know someone else who is getting more than them. But they don’t know how lucky they are compared with people who live elsewhere especialy here in Australia, they should see what some people have to live on here.
And as for good old Guernsey BSE (blame someone else)of blaming immigrant workers goes.
As I was an immigrant worker who stayed in Guernsey for 40 years (yes it was the immigrant workers fault when I arrived)and I saw many changes certainly for the worst in that time, well most of them were caused by an incomptent States along with good old Guernsey greed.
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Just in response to Sophie, I am amazed when I hear those comments from a ‘Local’, just absolutely amazed. I can’t believe how lucky people are to live on Guernsey. The opportunities for the locals are significantly better than in the UK. The education system is fantastic and the possibility of a cracking job on island paying a decent wage is very high. The crime is low and the weather nice (usually). The reason why immigrants (such as me) have come to work here is because normally our employers have asked us to.
I have a specialised job that several locals tried to do before me, the last one failing spectacularly. There simply isn’t anyone on this island who is experienced enough or capable of doing it. Am I special? Nope, just learned my trade in the UK. Did the company need my skills? Yes. Do I pay more tax and NI than the average local? Yes. I am not in the minority here – lots of these ‘immigrants’ in the finance sector are here for the same reasons.
Secondly, the ‘average’ wage in the UK is £24K on the basis of the arithmetic mean (i.e. add them up and divide by the sample size). The actual ‘average’ wage is better determined by the mode (i.e. the most number that occurs the most), which is actually around £19K.
Thirdly, that is a tired and frankly incorrect Utilitarian argument to ‘tax the rich’ – this was discredited in 1971 by Rawls and in 1974 by Nozick. Please do put tax up and the likes of me and my ilk (i.e. income earners of £100K+) will gladly move to Jersey. The realisation within the States is simply that you need us more than we need to live here (dare they admit it???) – ‘immigrants’ like me technically subsidise your income tax payments so you can enjoy your eventual retirement. The fact I turned down my 15 year licence and asked for a 7 year should be evidence of that fact…
I do like living in Guernsey – but getting a little tired of some people’s small minded local attitudes.
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Nice one Licence Holder
Can’t wait to read Lawrence’s reply
By the way does anyone know if Belinda is really Lawrence in disguise ???
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Ray – sorry but Belinda is her own person. Evidently there are a few of us who share the same opinions. And more than just two I would wager.
As I have said in other topics, Guernsey was not some slum before Finance bestowed its treasures upon us. Wealth is not the be all and end all and I genuinely pity those who believe that it is. As was said earlier in this topic, people are now of a mind set that they will only be happy when they are earning more – whether they earn £9K or £900K a year.
Licence Holder – I am jolly glad that you only opted for a 7 year licence. Your attitude is something that our community can well do without. And your comments on “tax the rich” are astoundingly small-minded (a trait that you seem to despise in us “locals”) It is well known that the Scandinavian countries with their progressive taxation regimes are thriving economies.
Aspiration for greater riches is a sorry by-product of capitalism (greed). I am well aware that I will probably never reach £100K a year (although it is not by any means beyond my reach) because I prioritise things like supporting my community, and more important than anything, spending time in this beautiful island with my fantastic children. I see people every day working til 9 or 10 at night. These people aspire to ever increasing wealth, but leave behind thoughts of spending time with their family.
I’d rather finish on time and give my children something far better than designer clothes, holidays abroad or (dare I say it….) a private education. In this seriously skewed society people are forgetting about the next generation. Look to yourselves, you elite 5% when pointing the finger of blame.
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You’ll have to wait, Ray, I’m out growing potatoes. Anyway, it’s nonsense. If the incentive for LH’s existence is making money then that is quite, quite sad.
And that goes for all tax dodgers. The idea is that Guernsey is a community, not a bunch of get rich as quick as possibles. If progressive tax regimes ever do happen, which they probably won’t, the less people that distort the system the better. Rich people are NOT better than the poor. In fact at many,many levels they are inferior because of the very drive to hoard capital.
You only have to look at the sorry state of the global finance world to see that. Bush will be the biggest capitalist hypocrit in history, followed by all the scum that run the poor into the ground.
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Belinda – I never said that Guernsey would be a slum but look at the facts – perhaps the States own publications?
Finance contributed 35% of total remuneration for Guernsey’s national income in 2007 – or approx £81m; profits by Financial firms contributed 39% of total profits for Guernsey GNI in 2007.
Like you said – not the be-all-end-all. Guernsey could survive without greedy fatcat financiers right? What 23% of the working population? That’s right, 23% of the working population, are greedy aspirational money grabbers who contribute 35% of GNI. (A disproportionate amount of money spent on YOUR children).
Public expenditure in Guernsey in 2007 was £294m and gross income was £365m – a budget surplus of £70m. Of this £365m income, income tax represented £296m and this represents 81% of public income. So let’s get rid of finance – whoops massive £81m hole in national income.
Hold on a second…what happens when the greedy money orientated financial war-mongerering people leave…what about the retail sector? Whoops no one is buying anymore, so there goes another £30m. It seems to be many ‘locals’ (and by this I don’t mean Guern’s, I mean small minded people) are happy to reap our labour via income tax and the public expenditure it provides, but don’t want us to become part of the community. You automatically pidgeon-holed me by my comments – unnecessary. I have a family, I went to a comprehensive and I don’t drive – I cycle.
Get rid of the Finance Sector = Economic Catastrophe.
‘Rich People’ do not hoard capital. They do not run people into the ground. If you can elaborate on how they do these things I would be interested. Thanks.
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LH
Who said about getting rid of the finance sector? That would be silly.
Fair taxation wouldn’t mean the end of the finance industry, what a ridiculous notion, some of the non local bosses may leave because paying a few pence more would be contraindicative to their mental health (notice those numbers keep on rising), it would just be seen as a long overdue correction to the system.
Many people I talk to in the sector would not mind paying more tax if it raised the general standard of Guernsey as a whole.
The results of profit-based business cannot be ignored. The media screams the headlines, nationalisations, asset stripped, moral hazard, overpaid, too powerful (oh dear the Tory dream of privatising services and demutualising building societies, what grave, grave errors)…only an imbecile would pursue this course from now on. In Guernsey we are protected somewhat, but it doesn’t take a febrile imagination to predict that a shrinkage may be in the offing in the next five years. If we carry on going for unattainable growth the population will have to rise sharply. Will the tax take at these levels provide the extra schools and hospital beds?If a crunch comes what then?
Fair personal taxation would instil a sense of community spirit, raising money to fix Guernsey’s problems.
Bringing in millionaires on the excuse that they may employ people is frankly short sighted. Most millionaires worth their salt would hide earned income.
It is obvious by the shops and services that we have that Guernsey’s retail sector is falsely inflated. Just how many jewelery shops does St Peter Port need? How many car dealers do we really need?
Personal choice from disposable income leads to over extension. Unsustainable.
Oh and finally, those States stats have proven to be very, very unreliable. Quote them with caution. Right ball park, but very spun.
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Licence Holder
It is worth while looking at your figures “Finance contributed 35% of total remuneration for Guernsey’s national income in 2007 – or approx £81m; profits by Financial firms contributed 39% of total profits for Guernsey GNI in 2007.
Like you said – not the be-all-end-all. Guernsey could survive without greedy fatcat financiers right? What 23% of the working population? That’s right, 23% of the working population, are greedy aspirational money grabbers who contribute 35% of GNI. (A disproportionate amount of money spent on YOUR children).
Public expenditure in Guernsey in 2007 was £294m and gross income was £365m – a budget surplus of £70m. Of this £365m income, income tax represented £296m and this represents 81% of public income”
Lets see just how valid these satistics are.
With the greatest respect most of us would be interested in the estimated figures for 2008.
In 2007 companies and banks contriburted an extiimated £118 million. In 2008 that figures shrinks to £18 million (yes £18million)
Why is this? Zero 10 is the answer, showing the reality of your comment “whoops massive 81 million holein National Income”
Well, old bean, we already have the black hole. That is why income falls to £306 million in 2008 from an estimated £351 million in 2007.
As Lawrence says “Oh and finally, those States stats have proven to be very, very unreliable. Quote them with caution. Right ball park, but very spun”
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Fair comment from both Stephen and Lawrence, but I fear you have taken my response to Belinda out of context. It was in direct response to the points she has raised. However…
Lawrence, I completely agree with your comments re States statistics (Lies, Damn lies and Statistics), but I don’t think they are too far off the mark. I have always said I would pay more tax if it made Guernsey a more fair society – but here is my point. If I pay more tax and this is spent on public expenditure, my £1 tax is unlikely to equate to £1 extra spending. The cost of collecting the tax, wasting a portion in some ridiculous way and the mechanics of then actually spending it are unlikely to achieve any result other than shrinking the economic pie.
I didn’t want to bring the Zero ten argument here re moderator guidelines, but it is a fair point you have made and I need to address it. Guernsey did not have a choice – I have worked in the Finance industry in the IOM. In particular, the IOM has a much more diversified economy, lower wages, but higher tax revenues. In addition, it has significantly lower income tax incidence and higher allowances. They do not have a licencing system as here – rather they have a work permit system which is easier to implement.
The choice the States face is stark – they can’t have a housing situation like the IOM, but they can’t afford not to have zero-ten. I agree taxation is an option, but like it or not, many of the firms here are here because of the low tax incidence. Similarly, many of the individuals are too. The States quick fix might be to bring in some extra (not too onerous) taxation and loosen the licensing situation – what do you think? Can we afford a little more tax and a few more people?
In response to Stephen, appreciate your comments, but I was clearly talking about 2007 – 2008; Zero-ten has not been implemented yet and I assumed would be a separate discussion – please read thread. Would you like me to outline my point again? I am happy to help. Cheers.
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Licence Holder
Let us forget zero 10 and concentrate on the budget for 2007 and 2008.
The restof my case stands. Public revenues for 2008 ncome falls to £306 million from an estimated £351 million in 2007.
Why is that?
In 2007 companies and banks contriburted an extiimated £118 million. In 2008 that figures shrinks to £18 million (yes £18million)
This confirma the reality of your comment “whoops massive 81 million hole in National Income”
As for your somewhat petulantt last paragraph I think you will find on checking that the changes in corporation tax (or the banned phrase by which it is commonly known) applies in 2008. It did not aply in 2007.
That is why there is such a big reduction in States income in 2008 over 2007.
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Licence Holder you forgot to mention that the Isle of Man also gets more than £200m a year from the Common Purse Agreement with the UK, in other words VAT revenue, although I believe that has recently been negotiated downwards. That revenue was the revenue which caused the Isle of Man to start the “race to the bottom” of tax rates, something that they may well already be regretting. Just think what we could fund with £200m of VAT revenue !
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It’s time more Guernsey Employers wised up to working mums and treated them with more respect. We are valuable staff with skills and require flexibility. At least us working mums do not sponge off the States and get our rent, child pre-school and other luxuries assisted with. It’s time the States gave help and assisted with working mums child care costs it’s disgusting how other’s benefit and we are the ones who are trying to provide for our family and put a roof over our heads. This island sucks
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