‘Punch’ jibe: Chief faces probe
Saturday 26th July 2008, 9:30AM BST.
A FORMAL complaint has been made about Chief Minister Lyndon Trott’s conduct during a political row. It follows a ‘robust’ exchange between him and Deputy Barry Brehaut in the corridors of Sir Charles Frossard House, when Deputy Trott is alleged to have used threatening and abusive language.
Deputy Brehaut wants the matter dealt with by the States Members’ Conduct Panel, which is chaired by former deputy Bailiff and Royal Court judge Chris Day.
If found to have breached the code, Deputy Trott faces punishment ranging from a caution to expulsion. The alleged exchange followed a meeting between the Public Sector Remuneration Committee, Deputy Trott and senior Policy Council staff.
Deputy Brehaut confirmed he had made a complaint but refused to elaborate on the details of the incident. He said the matter fell squarely under section nine of the members’ code of conduct. Deputy Trott intends to co-operate fully with any inquiry that might take place.
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It looks from this, and different, unsubstantiated allegations on another BB, that there is a concerted attack on the personal integrity of Deputy Trott.
Unpleasant and unwanted.
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Stephen
If what has been reported is true, and there have been no denials as yet, then it is shameful behaviour from the CM. He is supposed to be a figure of respect (I get your point on the other thread), but by issuing (alleged) threats of violence, he entirely undermines the genteel political process. To say there is a concerted attack on his ‘personal integrity’ is stretching it somewhat. But this is Guernsey, and a lot of people know Mr Trott and his past, is it not a fact of life that the past comes back every now and then, rightly or wrongly? I see no public discrediting, just rumours on other sites that do not warrant much attention.
If all is as reported then he should be punished for discrediting himself and the position of CM and the role of being a deputy. After all, the alleged incidents happened after political discussion, not a random snipe in the street, is this anyway to conduct oneself in the building of their profession. If I were to start threatening my colleagues I would be reprimanded, top man position or not. It’s as simple as that.
Let’s see if the truth outs.
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I think the enquiry should be allowed to take its course before speculation either by the public or press gets out of hand.
The sooner it can be done the better, so that the true facts emerge, a decision is made on those facts and the whole matter put to rest.
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Lawrence
Deputy Trott has said he will cooperate fully. This does not imply guilt.
I recall Deputy Brehaut being hostile in his attitude to Deptuy Trott in the Clinical Block debate. Strong and forceful opinion is part and parcel of politics. It seems he might well not like being told a few home truths when the tables are turned.
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IF the claims about Deputy Trott are true (show me some ***** respect), maybe he should remember that respect is not given – it is earned. When this man starts to earn the respect of his peers (not to mention the wider public) they may start to repays it.
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Didn’t LT walk out on Rhoderick Matthews during a House sitting, when RM was trying to save the island £100m est.?
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Whatever the truth of the latest allegation, a threat of physical violence accompanied by foul language is not the same thing as “being hostile in attitude ” or “strong and forceful opinion”.
The latter, as has been said, are part and parcel of politics; the former would result, in the workplace, in instant dismissal and earn the contempt of people everywhere.
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It seems that that many in Guernsey still have the guilty until proved innocent mentality.
The comment “the former would result, in the workplace, in instant dismissal and earn the contempt of people everywhere” is so OTT and removed from the reality of Employment Law.
Hopefully, the ex rugby playing Chris Day will follow the line taken in such spats by rugby refereees, and suggest to the participants they “put their handbags away”. Works well on the rugby field
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Stephen
You are taking the matter too lightly.
On one hand we have politicians wishing for reversions to past methods of child discipline, on the other there is a condoning, indeed ‘pressure’ on Brehaut, not to take this further.
How can we take anyone seriously if they threaten to “punch someone’s [expletive deleted] teeth out”?
On one hand we have a CM doing deals with the high and mighty, on the other we have a liability who may start flinging insults around in a heated political debate.
Is this good for stability, an asset craved by the Finance Industry? Is it good for the poorer workers who are expecting to do business with the politicians?
Undoubtedly Brehaut will retreat for the sake of the House, maybe that’s for the best, but the issue remains, enough people heard what went on to not make this a case of ‘if’, but of ‘how serious’.
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Stephen John and a rugby field…well I guess someone has to be the ‘hooker’…if Trott was the USA President and had a finger available to push the button of global destruction, would Stephen be so crass, so pedantic, so weak in his analogy..is there a old boys network in the Guernsey rugby fratenrity? Maybe that is why Trott will almost certainly evade any real retribution.Cauliflower ears..all the rage in the Frossard corridors, I believe.
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Oh! Come on ! Stop pussy footing around! It´s got nothing to do with guilty before innocent. The problem is Lyndon, everybody who knows him and his past can see it for what it is.
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Just a small comment, was the Press at this altercation or were they ‘reliably informed’. If so, was it by a sitting member of the States? If it was and as a Voter I would be very worried indeed, just what else could/would be said to gain a few column inches. If Mr Day finds out that it was a states member, is it against the Members Code of Conduct and what further action could he take?
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I just wish everyone would grow up and appreciate that this is the real world. Heated politics brings heated discussions which may frequently get out of hand. Blair and Brown were alleged to have had several such altercations towards the end of Blair’s time in office. If my memory serves me right Barry Brehaut had quite a spat with Dave Jones at Housing last year even if it didn’t get out of hand or go as far as this. One person was involved in both incidents though. Is that a coincidence worth investigating ?
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If our politicians insist on behaving like schoolboys I suggest they conclude their dispute in a similar way. I propose a bare-knuckle fight between Deputies Trott and Brehaut in a car park of their choosing. (I for one would pay good money to see it).
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Seems to me the problem is too many folk giving the CM too much rope. Far too much benefit of the doubt.
This isn’t about sending a bloke to prison, its about how we are represented at CM level. NOTHING needs to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. The existence of a “situation” should be enough for a suspension, as it would be for any civil servant, at any grade. As I understand things NO complaint has been made against BB, so he clearly has no case to answer.
Are those that consider all the stories out there simply to be politically motivated character assassination the good men doing nothing while evil (or in this case unsuitability) prospers? The more outrageous the story, the more determined they become to skirt over it as irrelevant.
Oddly, though, they’d criticise another member in the same situation that hadn’t kept the rumour mill rumbling for years.
I’m with CD – how much are the tickets?
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It is amazing how some nonentities in political life all over the World may try to bring attention to themselves .Many weaker people all over the World and throughout time instigate trouble because they are just boring little people that really nobody is too interested in what they have to say.So often in Westminster we have all witnessed a Politician trying to defame his or her leader in their resignation speech from the Cabinet. Some of these poor souls just feel inadequate and they just can not help themselves. And in debate these types of people get clobbered and mauled badly by such good orators as Margaret Thatcher, Nigel Farage, William Hague, Dave Jones, and Peter Ferbrache.
It is strange that certain people are always knit picking and have a talent for getting up peoples noses. It must be hard to be ignored. Politics can be full of disappointments.
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It is rather worrying that the future of this island depends on politicians like these, given what has been happening in the States recently I suggest they apply for a job in a travelling circus and we vote in some new recruits from Monkey Puzzle nursery, I’m sure they would be more capable than many of our current deputies and ministers.
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Deputy Trott is not a leader – nor was Mike Torode or Laurie Morgan all for different reasons – and ‘altercation’ just proves it.
After losing a sizeable many votes and just getting elected which he showed “great surprise” at being re-elected he went on to run for top job and when he got it the photo in the Press had him looking very smug (ie. not ‘surprised’) with his feet up on the table. That sets a great example for how he treats the whole ‘game’ of politics.
Backers of Trott trotted out his “great international connections”. Well they couldn’t say his local connections were getting stronger could they!
There’s no chance Trott will be reprimanded with anything more than a feather and a handfull of excuses.
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There will be supporters and detractors of both politicians. The CM has not denied he threated to violence towars one of his colleagues. The civil servant ‘dignty at work’ contract practically bans us from any office banter. How in the world can Trott justify his actions.
He was and continues to demonstrate brattish behavious and simply should not be representing this island at an international level.
He is way out of his depth and an embarassment and liability to this island.
Didn’t he propose jurats today? How ironic is that?
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A few irrelevant Politicians in Guernsey and Jersey would try the patience of a Saint there seems to be quite a few of the P C brigade posting .The Islands have enough problems without the leaders of the knit pickers on both Islands wasting tax payers money crying that they have been spoken too in a harsh manner instead of bringing good ideas to the States. Many of these kinds of people would never get elected on an Island wide vote but because their family the local Church etc back them both Islands have to suffer them.
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So it’s irrelevant to have opposition, Dominic? And what does ‘PC’ (whatever it means) have to do with anything? Threatening violence in the workplace, or indeed anywhere, is unacceptable and has always been. Are you suggesting that we should allow the people that can ‘punch people’s [expletive deleted] teeth out’ the most effectively to run Guernsey by themselves? I would suggest that the islands have enough problems because there are too many politicians that like the sound of their own shouting rather than doing anything right.
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Lawrence the people I have in mind are not really opposition they come to the States trying to make themselves feel important with a very small mandate from the electorate. They never have a good idea in their head and try to obstruct people getting on with their respective jobs.
All I ever see these types of people do is try and stir up things for Politicians who have no time to listen to their twaddle and like the classroom snitch at every opportunity ring the JEP or the G P to bring some colour in their lives.
I will repeat many of these kinds of people would never get elected on an Island wide vote but because their family the local Church etc back them both Islands have to suffer them.
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real people with real opinions and real passion -isn’t that what everyone was crying out for when the stses were changed so drastically at the last election? lyndon wears his heart on his sleeve and there’s nothing wrong with that. anyone who SERIOUSLY believes he would have genuinely punched the guy is sooooooo far off the mark. it was said in the heat of the moment -and that’s what we need -heat, not sterile debate -to get things done.
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T ruculent
R eckless
O ver
T he
T op
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But Dominic, without knowing to whom you are alluding to, I could quite easily think you were accusing the Chief Minister and his obvious coterie for being vainglorious?
The whole point of politics is to avoid fisticuffs, otherwise we would revert back to the person with the biggest stick gets first bite of the cherry. But that goes down well with your mantra of greed is good, no?
Which ever way you shake this, and there have been no denials, our CM has been involved in an incident that he should not have gone near to. Your disrespect for elected deputies says more about you than it does the people og Guernsey. Are you accusing them of backing the wrong people?
As for going to the Press, please tell me who has been ‘snitching’ as opposed to the blatant self promotion that I have been following with interest by a few of our louder Deputies. I’m not sure how ‘planet Dominic’ works, but it surely isn’t the same as the majority.
Oh that’s right, you don’t like the majority.
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Lawrence you know the people I am talking about the same people that scrape in as Deputies with a small mandate in a Parrish from their Aunties, Uncles, Mums, Dads, etc. These same people could not hope to get elected in an Island wide vote.
Are you accusing the CM of violence? There is a big difference with speaking harshly to some non entity and somebody blowing it up out of all proportion. I would say the majority would rather see some passion as opposed to some body that might like stirring the pot at any excuse and having some of the same off the wall anti finance views you seem to hold.
At every opportunity many of the snitchers to the press get more column inches than the people that are trying to guide these Islands in difficult times.
With regards to speaking about the majority you certainly could not claim to be in that camp.
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David’s comment “I just wish everyone would grow up and appreciate that this is the real world. Heated politics brings heated discussions which may frequently get out of hand” was and still is the best contribution to the very personal thread.
I say well done to Deputy Trott for being man enough to accept that he was provoked into loosing his cool.
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Stephen, he had no choice.
These Codes are required to stop this sort of bullying. Brehaut’s ‘acceptance’ indicates that he wasn’t happy with the ‘apology’, but preferred to save the CM from criticism. Shouldn’t he be ‘congratulated’ for saving the CM’s skin?
Outrageous to think that Giba and the IoD etc have managed to find ‘success’ in these early days of the new house.
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Bad form for Deputy Brehaut to continue to discss the matter with the media after the withdrawal.
If he felt so bad he should have let it go to the tribunal. Perhaps he was worried it might have found he was not blameless in the spat.
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