‘To be your leader I must have real power’
Wednesday 3rd December 2008, 11:30AM GMT.
CHIEF MINISTER Lyndon Trott has outlined a case for more power to be given to his position.
In a presentation to the Confederation of Guernsey Industry yesterday, he also said that since the machinery of government changes, the answer to who was the island’s leader was simple – the chief minister.
In the past a visitor might have been taken to the Lt-Governor, the Bailiff or the president of the former Advisory and Finance Committee, he said.
‘The elected leader of the States of Deliberation is the chief minister, the first among equals, and therefore I would like to think that, today, most people would direct the visitor to Sir Charles Frossard House and my office,’ said Deputy Trott.
‘Now why is this so important? Well, increasingly, the role of chief minister is on the international stage and around the negotiating table.’
Deputy Trott said the problem was that the chief minister had authority without power.
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Get real – the guy is a menace as it is, without giving him more power. Mark my words, Trott is a real candidate for becoming a small-town megalomaniac. He must be reined in, not further empowered. The sooner we can get rid of him the better.
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Whatever people’s view of the incumbent,he is right about the role. It needs to have commensurate powers. However if it is to have greater power then the process of election becomes all the more important. Island-wide voting is probably required, but this does run the danger of the public voting in someone who the elected deputies might deem unsuitable, just as much as it can result in the elected deputies voting in someone who the electorate might deem unsuitable.
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Please not another three and a half years of this. What have we done to deserve this?
First of all THE numero uno in Guernsey is, has been and always will be the Bailiff. No question.
Leaders have foresight, dictators have power.
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I agree David. Could not the deputies agree to a short list and then the public vote for a second time, with a DCM on the same ticket? Too many deputies seem to have too close connections to various outcrops of power and control, so trusting them to elect the person that will do them the most favours has always been dangerous. Who knows what machinations go on behind the scenes to secure favours?
The public must have a stronger voice in a small place like Guernsey. There is absolutely no way we should change now, but the system needs to be ready for the next term.
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If he had more power, he would be a danger to Guernsey!
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Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Give him any more power and watch him alienate the rest of the States and then the rest of the world.
Between him and Flouquet they could really damage Guernsey’s already tarnished reputation on the world stage.
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all he wants more power for is so he can go around the world pretending he is a prime minister of some small country,and the taxpayer has to pay for him.he claims the identity document he signed changes nothing so why does he then have the authority to enter into international agreements when its the british governments responsibilty to act on are behalf.
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I’ve now read the article.
Is Mr Trott using the Flouquet furore as a springboard to launch a bid to bolster his authority? Maybe Ray’s ‘I bet the Minister for Sewage now knows what it feels like to be Julius Caesar’ letter (Press, the other day) is not so far from the mark. It wouldn’t be beyond the realms of possibility. He didn’t get where he is today with grace and humility. That aside; at what stage can he possibly gain more executive power when he has no public mandate? We don’t know what he stands for, his manifesto was woolly, he got hammered in the polls (as well as everywhere else he likes to shout about his successes in public) and he is highly divisive.
Either we have directly elected ministers, maybe selected by elected deputies, or we have party politics with policy driven manifestos, so we vote for the party and not the man.
All the time the electorate feels it is not getting a fair say then debate will always slide to the puerile. Let’s stop talking about individuals and get some political direction.
Even if the same people get churned out in the same positions (shurely shome mishtake), at least we would feel like we tried.
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Quote Fast Robert “he got hammered in the polls”
Not hammered enough to prevent his election though!
I agree with David, if the CM is to have more power, some form of island wide voting is required to allow the entire population the opportunity to choose who exactly is to wield this power. I maintain the view that a party political system is the only way that island wide voting would work as nobody (apart from a few anoraks with plenty of time on their hands) would be able to carefully review 100 odd manifestos and choose over 40 candidates from them. A political party system with a leader would allow islanders to vote for the party (and policies) of their choice, with its leader becoming CM, in a similar fashion to the UK.
Guernsey’s current system is too old fashioned for a modern state, irrespective of size, and needs to modernise.
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An interesting dilemma.
On the one hand we have a government that has the power to make political decisions but often, in practice, simply get bogged down in endless debate (democratic but ineffective).
On the other hand we have a Chief Minister who wants to usurp certain powers from the government because he believes his role as leader gives him a mandate to make decisions on behalf of the States (undemocratic but – possibly – more effective in terms of getting things done).
Granting more power to the Chief Minister does therefore have that one key advantage; it could streamline certain decision making processes. However, I would suggest that the extension of the Chief Minister’s powers would also have to be weighed against three other key factors namely: motive, accountability and trust.
Mr Trott’s assertion that a visitor should now be directed to his office rather than to that of the Bailiff or Lieutenant Governor does suggest a rather inflated level of self importance. Statements like this only increase my personal concern that he is seeking power because he enjoys the elevated status that this gives him among his peers. If that is his motive (or even part of his motive) for wanting further powers then he should not be given them.
If the Chief Minister was given further powers, would he take on a commensurate degree of accountability if they were wrongly used, or indeed if he simply made a mistake? Would he accept the blame and resign or would he say that he was acting on behalf of the States and therefore was not accountable for his error? And what if he did decide to do something which was patently not in the best interests of the Island decisions? If, for example, the power went completely to his head and he decided to declare war on Jersey who would be able to call him to account and revoke his decisions?
I suppose the bottom line is that it is all about trust. Do you trust Lyndon Trott to make decisions on your behalf without reference to our elected government? (Why do I get an image of Tony Blair in my head when I ask myself that question?)
One also needs to remember that whoever succeeds Mr Trott as Chief Minister in future would enjoy the same enhanced powers – are we prepared to grant those additional powers now and trust that whoever takes on the role of Chief Minister in future will use them wisely?
Personally I would be very wary about expanding the powers available to the Chief Minister without bringing in strict guidelines as to how and when those powers could be used – and I would certainly want to see a system in place that would hold him fully accountable to the people of Guernsey for his decisions.
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The post of Chief Minister and Deputy Chief Minister should be decided on at the General Election when the electorate vote on who their deputies should be. This can be done in the same way as the London Assembly elections when the electors also decided on who would become Mayor.
It is important to be able to vote for the candidates in order of preference, so that the second or subsequent choices of unsuccessful candidates get re-distributed so that the overall favourite candidate of the electorate obtain the top job/s.
You could extend this system so that the public also voted for the Ministers.
It is possible that more people would vote at election time if they thought their votes were really going to count. It is disillusioning to the public to vote someone into the States and then find their representative/s are given little responsiblity or power on their behalf.
At the very least, the Chief Minister, Deputy Minister and other Ministers should be elected by the whole Bailiwick before being able to take up such office, and it would be more democratic if all States Members were elected by all Islanders.
At present many members of the public do not like someone they never had the opportunity to vote for or against to be able to be Chief Minister or indeed any other senior position.
As for the powers of the Chief Minister, these should only be increased if the office holder is elected by the whole Bailiwick and he or she has a proper accountable manadate.
Leadership is very much one of example, of persuasion and of respect. If the Chief Minister is able to exercise these qualities then additional powers are not that essential.
Some previous Presidents of the former Advisory and Finance Committee had such qualities but we have not always had good leadership.
Our current Chief Minister should be given a fair chance to prove himself and as for his record so far I feel the jury is still out.
Under these circumstances he should not be given additional powers but instead show how, by his actions and words, he can command the high regard of his colleagues and of course the general public.
When I was a States Member I regarded Lyndon Trott as a close colleague, and I have no reason to change this opinion. I do, however, feel that anyone in political power has to be careful that they don’t take that power for granted , don’t become too remote or arrogant and are cautious with the counsel they keep.
Tony Webber
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“First of all THE numero uno in Guernsey is, has been and always will be the Bailiff. No question.”
In your opinion. Crown appointments are an anachronism. I don’t consider Bailiffs ‘first citizens’.
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I suppose it is a kind of ‘urge’ that makes a man want power; that mighty weapon, that can be in most cases devastating for the people where this ‘¨Power’is practised.
Guernsey has seen enough of this by non Guernsey people; they (the power seekers) believe they are dealing with a backward people; and are easy to manipulate.
For my part Only Guernsey people should have a say in how Guernsey is run; and I mean Guernsey.
Elisabeth the 1st gave us the power to rule our Island; Chasing out all those who tried to confiscate things of Guernsey.
Now it’s a case of wanting power:
I say NO better to be rid of him for good, and allow Guernsey to be once again “Sarnia Cherie”
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Jackie.
“In your opinion. Crown appointments are an anachronism. I don’t consider Bailiffs ‘first citizens’.”
No, not my opinion it is fact. Not an anachronism either but as it is. (Check out his number plate). You don’t mention who you consider to be ‘first citizens’ but if other than the Bailiff your idea would be a prochronism.
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He wants more power?
So he can deliberate round tables more?
How bizarre.
He can still deliberate round tables can’t he?
I would not give a man more power who asked for it – it is a sure sign of someone with a persecution complex, insecurities and the need to be important.
He is asking for all the wrong reasons; in any case if we, the Bailiwick wanted him to have more power then we would request that.
There are, or is not, anything in these posts to suggest anyone with half an IQ would support you Lyndon.
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Steven, I’m not entirely sure what ‘first citizen’ means. First among equals? If so island wide mandate please. “First citizen”, as in better than anyone else? Hardly.
Just so we are clear, I’m talking about the office of Bailiff and not Mr Rowland.
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PS, my number plate is in the 4000′s. Does that make me the 4000th most important citizen in Guernsey? :)
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As people have already said, the system needs to change before we have a cm with power like some sort of ‘prime minister’ style person. if it’s to be like this man then i’m going to pack and leave. people don’t ask for power, and the deputies are in public service not power. how can someone scrape in during an election, then be given the cm position, then call for more power! the arragsnce is baffling. he should be on the back benches out of the way.it is the arrogant attitude that is the worst part.
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Oh no, this is going to hurt some of you but I have some bad news.
We are not a republic and therefore not citizens, we are subjects. Subjugated to the Crown.
Horrible feeling eh?
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“Definition: A person, native or naturalized, of either sex, who owes allegiance to a government, and is entitled to reciprocal protection from it. ”
I believe our ‘allegiance’, is to the Crown isn’t it?
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Remember who introduced zero 10 without a plan for filling the black hole?
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Jackie.
You said.
“I don’t consider Bailiffs ‘first citizens’.”
And later.
“I’m not entirely sure what ‘first citizen’ means.”
Please if you do not know what you are talking about don’t ask others for an explanation.
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Jackie.
On the point of allegiance, I always believed it to be to the Duke of Normandy. Very briefly in 1066 the Duke of Normandy conquered the crown of England and still holds it today. The last part of Normandy still retained by the Duke (Elizabeth Windsor) is the Channel Islands.
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It wa rhetorical steven, or did that completely pass you buy.
By what democratic authority does the Bailiff hod his post? No need to anwser that.
And who decided he was ‘first citizen’? You may answer that.
It’a anachronistic along with a very, very, very expensive Lieutenant Governor – yes we pay for that.
The only ‘leader’ and we should have should be elected by the people.
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Quote Eric “For my part Only Guernsey people should have a say in how Guernsey is run; and I mean Guernsey.”
How do you define “Guernsey” Eric? How many generations back would you have to go? What if you had English ancestry but were born here?
I was born in Guernsey to a Guernsey born father and English born mother – am I therefore a half-citizen?
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Jackie.
By ‘rhetorical’, i can only guess you meant it to encourage a deeper level of philosophical thought. In that case no it wasn’t over my head.
You then went on to look up the meaning of the words you had used which leads me to believe the purpose of your rhetoric was to remind yourself of your own ignorance.
An ignorant person that tries to use words they do not understand just serves to illustrate their ignorance. However, to use simple terms to communicate their objective concisely is by far the more intelligent strategy.
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Paul Le-p; try to use a little common sense in your questions; you know exactly what I meant, however you wish to raise a point; My answer would be for you to read our history; that will determine my choice of words.
Remember; a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
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Steven, you seem a very brave boy behind the anonimity of a computer. As soon as people start getting agitated, it’s usually a sign of argument loss. Have a good sunday; none of this really needs to get personal does it?
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Lyndon Trott is also a strong supporter of Bernard Flouquet.
One reason why anyone should be wary about giving him more power. It puts his whole leadership into question.
He needs to understand that he is a public servant and works for the people of Guernsey. He is not his own ship, he doesnt get to stand on the highest point in the highest tower and yell out the rules for others to follow. He just needs a bit of people skills. The key is communication and collaboration with the other politicians and listening to the people of Guernsey – that after all is fundamental to democracy isnt it? This is not a dictatorship. If he listened to the people of Guernsey and also the global community, Flouquet would have resigned. As everyone knows, communication is a slower road but a higher and thoroughly worthwhile one.
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Plato I believe said never give power to those who crave it!
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Steven
I fully endorse your comments and criticisms of jackie.
Good quote Andy. Like it.
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Whilst we are in the mood for appropriate quotes….Groucho Marx said ” I would never want to join any club that would want me as a member” ;)
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Why can I imagine the Chief Minister say…
“it is useless to resist”
“and together we can rule the galaxy…”
“it is the only way”
Could be a hint of “Empire” building here?
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Lyndon Trott may be supposed to be a public servant, but I remember a senior civil servant who remarked to me: “I am nobody’s servant”!
Giving more power to Lyndon Trott reminds me of the infamous meeting between Chief Minister Morgan and Stuart Falla. There is little doubt that, had Deputy Morgan had the power, he would have sacked Deputy Falla on the spot.
No, really power resides with the elected States members. It is not for grabbing.
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I must admit I thought the title of this thread was a quote from Lyndon Trott, but it transpires I was wrong!! According to Deputy Trott (21/1/09 GP Open Lines letter) he says:-
‘While writing, I would like to correct another misunderstanding regarding the office of chief minister.
I strongly believe that the office should have, in certain cases, additional statutory authority. However, any amendments to the mandate would, quite rightly, following debate not be implemented until after the next general election.
Any suggestion that the present incumbent of the post is therefore desiring greater powers is disingenuous.’
Was the GP really disingenuous?
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No, Devils Advocate, I don’t think so. This looks like Trott backtracking because of flak he will have received for the interviews and speeches he made.
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FR: Backtracking!! Do you mean he is denying having said ‘To be your leader I must have real power’?
Perhaps he was misquoted. Surely the reporter or editor can confirm whether this was the case and apologise if the quote was wrong.
If the quote is correct, we have a serious issue for the chief minister to clarify. The words honesty and integrity spring to mind.
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Hmmm, you are probably correct about the paraphrasing, but there were a few instances of Deputy Trott implying that he needed more power to be able to me more effective. He used the Flouquet gaffe as an example to be able to hire and fire (although in private he was supportive) and he was also bullish about the UK agreement, and his desire for executive powers were/are fairly transparent. I suppose it is the comparison in the language being used that is more ‘backtracking’ rather than the content.
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