Housing laws put A-level grades in jeopardy
Saturday 27th December 2008, 9:35AM GMT.
GUERNSEY’S housing laws are a threat to education, according to a head teacher.
The Grammar School’s Jeff Smith (pictured) said that not only were good teachers being lost, but replacing them was becoming increasingly difficult.
‘This year we have six whose licences are due to expire,’ said Mr Smith. ‘They will be replaced by teachers from the UK because they are not available on the island. We are having great difficulty getting people to even apply to come to teach in Guernsey because of the housing licence laws and the cost of property.’
He said that two weeks ago, a candidate had been interviewed for a vacant maths position.
‘She was offered the job but then turned down the post because she was not willing to bring her young family to Guernsey on a five-year licence.’
He said that Grammar had not even been able to recruit a supply maths teacher from UK specialist employment agencies. The staff who will have to leave teach mathematics, English, religious studies, photography, history and physics.
‘The six have a vast amount of A-level teaching experience and replacing them with newly-qualified teachers with no A-level experience will have a massive impact on teaching at the Sixth Form Centre,’ said Mr Smith.
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I appreciate that Mr Smith hasn’t been in Guernsey long otherwise he would hheve refrained from making such an overkill statement such as
“‘The six have a vast amount of A-level teaching experience and replacing them with newly-qualified teachers with no A-level experience will have a massive impact on teaching at the Sixth Form Centre”.
The assumption that he will have to replace with newly qualified teachers is a gross exageration, and one that destroys the credibility of his argument.
If the comment is correct it would suggest a worrying state of affais at his school, that had more to do with the school, than the licencing system.
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There are two sides to this story. There are local people qualified as Teachers who cannot get a job because of all the Licence Holders here. My Daughter qualified January 2008 and has only managed to get a temp post at Vale Junior School until Easter and there are other people she knows who have not even managed to find any post. My Daughter has been praised by the headmaster as an excellent teacher but she will give up teaching locally unless she finds something soon. Help locals first as there are many who would like to come back to their home in Guernsey but don’t get a look in when vacancies come up
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The Housing Laws are so archiac and not workable for both Guernsey born people and those wanting to move to Guernsey, isnt it about time one of our Politicians took this task on and sorted out the mess it is causing!
Before leaving Guernsey for New Zealand 6 years ago, I discussed this issue live on radio with two Politicians and another off the record, and all agreed that the Law as it stood was far from correct but they didn’t have a workable alternative so it was better than nothing until it is reviewed again.
It doesn’t take into account the ever changing careers, in that most people do not stay in one job for their life anymore and move around the world exploring alternatives, which means that Guernsey born children are forced to lose their Guernsey Residency if they have not lived there for 10 consecutive years ! All politicians agreed this was wrong but didn’t know what else could be feasible.
Why does Guernsey not consider applications for Permanent Residency which would alleviate the problem for the Grammar School and other professional industries. Only people with the qualifications Guernsey requires, with clean police records etc would be eligible – this works for many others countries.
One obstacle, apparently, would be the expense of taking it to requete, changing the current Law as it stands and re-drafting a new.
Come on Guernsey, isn’t it about time this was done !!!!!
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Get over it – the States apply their rules to ensure the island has a ‘managable’ population.
My wife and I had over 12 years combined on the island and were in positions that could not be filled by local people, however we still had to go.
It’s the way the cookie crumbles, unless of course you are in the health sector……
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The EU will probably force us to join and then it will all change.
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Andy:
The EU neither can, nor wants to force Guernsey or any other other ‘territories for which a member state is responsible’, to joint the Union.
But in any case, Guernsey is ALREADY a member of the European Community, but only to the ‘minimum necessary’, under the provisions of Protocol 3 and subsequent cases clarifying it.
It is a /very/ good position for the island to be in, and stems from negotiations by Geoffrey Ripon in 1973, and this is why you don’t have to pay 10% import duty on everything brought in from the UK mainland.
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Andy….
we’re already part of the EU. It’s the EEC we’re avoiding being part of.
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Anyways, can’t they move to the open market ?.
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Guernsey must look to its own population for the long term solution. Sadly in teaching and most areas we are failing and in doing so letting down this generation of new workers and future generations. i too have a daughter that is fully qualified as a teacher and i might add at NO cost to Guernsey but at considerable expense and substantial personal commitment. Despite her best efforts she has been unable to get a teaching job and therefore has NO alternative but to find work elsewhere. What a waste!!!
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The article is refering to specialist teachers – Maths, Science etc. If there are trained teachers on this island within these fields they will have ‘first dibs’ at the positions.
However in most other countries, ‘locals’ from one area DO NOT have ‘first dibs’ at jobs and therefore often have to move away. It is a part of life. Why should Guernsey people be so special? If Guernsey didn’t have employees from other countries your entire way of life, your future, your everything would dry up. Wake Up.
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I thought the EEC became known as the EU after the 1993 Maastricht treaty – but I could be wrong due to cranial difficulties.
However I think the EC/EU will apply steady pressure on CIs to become full members of the new superstate run by unelected politicians.
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Andy, I don’t think there is any possibility of us becoming full members of the EU. We are too small for that – it would be completely unworkable and the cost would be prohibitive.
What is a possibility is that we could reach an accommodation with the EU like other mini-states such as Andorra, Monaco, San Marino and Lichtenstein. This is not a revolutionary concept as we already have a special relationship with the EU defined by Protocol 3.
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I agree with Denise and V Concerned. I know of several teachers who have been unable to secure positions locally. The Housing Department are responsible for issuing licences but how do they know that there were not local applicants for specific jobs who were turned down.
The issue is if locals are not supported to gain experience locally then the island will be the losers. We are in danger of becoming so reliant on licence holders when there are local people who would love to come back. Do the Education Department have a list of students who have gained teaching degrees – do they support them to come back. Why has Denise’s daughter been turned down for a full time teaching post – someone should look into this.
Anon: Guernsey is special – which is why people want to come and work here. The States are trying to keep the population down and by employing teachers etc with local residential status we will help both continuity of teachers and support the infrastructure of the island. The States must be spending a fortune on the extra benefits that non-locals can get when they come here i.e. relocation and mortgage allowance which bumps their salary up considerably.
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I lost a fantastic biology teacher due to this silly law. Now I don’t want Guernsey to become over populated but a bit of common sense never goes amiss.
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My understanding is that when teachers are being recruited the applicant with the highest qualifications is offered the job and no preference is given to locally born teachers. The theory is that our children should get the best possible teacher. Therefore local teachers straight out of training are less likely to get a job here until they have some experience elsewhere.
It is crazy to keep kicking out exceptionally good teachers. We apparently need to import 200 people a year to keep our population stable and these teachers are rational, well educated thinkers and community minded, just the sort we should be inviting to stay permanently, after maybe a couple of years evaluation.
Of course Treasury prefer to import very high paid finance workers to improve their tax take.
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Merlin:
You say “Guernsey is special – which is why people want to come and work here.” It’s about time you woke up and smelt the coffee. Guernsey is no longer the special place it used to be. The wages paid for the cost of living are no longer good enough to attract people over for Public Service posts. The way of life is not that much better to make a difference for people to come here and accept a lower level of disposable income.
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Denise Poat, you say your daughter has been offered only a temporary post at Vale Junior School, she is obviously therefore a Primary School teacher. The issue discussed in the article is Secondary level subject specialists, an entirely different issue. You imply that extending the licences of these teachers would somehow harm your daughter’s case for obtaining a local job, however the issue at hand is the recruitment of experienced specialist A level teachers, posts which can only be filled by those qualified to do so to this level. As a non-local secondary A level specialist teacher I have firsthand experience over recent years of such posts being advertised first locally, and then in the UK to see responses predominantly from non-locals (often newly qualified), with many posts remaining unfilled. Primary teaching does not require the same degree of specialisation as A level teaching, therefore with a limited population in Guernsey not producing the necessary numbers of these specialists, it is essential that these posts are filled, where necessary from the UK.
Surely the real issue here is the education proivided to the future generations of Guernsey. The most important thing is getting and retaining the very best teachers in the Island to maintain the high standards we all expect from the Island’s education system, not simply having a local body in the classroom.
As my housing licence is shortly to expire I will be applying for jobs in the UK. If at any point, as an English person, I am given priority over a better qualified teacher from elsewhere, I will be simply horrified.
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This article highlights the teaching sector, but we also have the same problems in the distribution industry. Getting good HGV drivers is challenging, and without our foreign workers we would have a real problem. How are they accommodated? Most now have to live in open market accommodation, at great expense, and so they have to work many hours to pay for it – many more hours than many locals are prepared to do.
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I am awake and can smell the coffee – I can even afford the odd cup! If Guernsey is ‘no longer the special place it used to be’ why are we having this conversation? Why do licence holders want to stay here if it is so awful? Let’s be honest here: Guernsey is a very beautiful island with low crime rates, low unemployment and with an excellent infrastructure. However we are in danger of becoming over populated and should be asking our politicians what they are doing to try and control this? We need to encourage our youngsters to join the public sector and become teachers, nurses, police officers and civil servants. What we have at the moment is a very uneven playing field in the public sector with licence holders earning more money than local residents doing the same job – as they are in receipt of extra allowances. This has enabled them to get on the housing ladder and get a good foothold – something our youngsters cannot do. This is what should be addressed before this island is taken over by people who want to change us so that we become like any other bureaucratic UK town.
Guernsey is special – and no one will change my mind about that!
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Let’s be clear on the local vs off-island recruitment issue. When a States post is advertised, it has to be advertised locally first. If there are ANY suitably qualified local candidates, then they get the job. Only if no suitable local applicants apply is the job advertised to non-locals.
So any post which is occupied by a non-local person is a by definition a post for which there was no suitably qualified local person.
Of course, the phrase “suitably qualified” is important here. If the post advertised is, say, for a specialist maths teacher, then if you’re a local with no specialist maths qualification then you’re not eligible to apply.
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Well, let’s not open up the ‘education’ debate shall we. Hasn’t he and his English ilk spent his career sending kids to media studies courses to meet UK degree and diversification targets?
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We need to think back why licences are issued in the first place, it is for an essential job that cannot be done by local residents but over time this has been abused as many non-local senior managers prefer to import rather than train local staff.
What about succession planning, perhaps the employer should be made to show that they have such lans in place for when licences come to an end.
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Clearly James, Jackie and Teacher have a sound understanding of the way in which the licence issue has been abused in the past.
Some of the tricks involved to obtain licences would not be believed, unless you were aware of them and the personalities involved.
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Teacher: I totally and 100% agree with you on this. Succession planning is not happening and our politicians and senior civil servants should be made to implement this. The onus should be on employers to prove that no local residents capable of doing the job applied – and if a licence holder is employed there should be proof that employers are doing something solid to ensure that they are training up local residents to take over when the period of the licence is up. It may cost more in the short term but the island will reap the benefits in the long term.
It is true that many non-local senior managers (of which there are several that i know of) appear to prefer to import people. Go to a couple of dinner parties or drinks parties and you will soon realise that many licence holders in particular sectors do already know each other or are friends of friends. I know of local staff who were qualified to do a particular job who were turned down – often after acting up for a period of time. They have no one to complain to; the job is just re-advertised (usually with a slight tweaking of the qualifications/experience needed) in the UK. The employer has fulfilled their part (i.e. advertised locally even if there was no intention of giving the job to a local person) and then housing appear to automatically issue a licence. Of course the other issue is if there really is no one locally who could do a particular job why are we paying licence holders so much more money? I am not disputing that people have to be helped with relocation i.e. moving their family and furniture here; but to pay their rent or mortgage for them is plain stupid. Many of these people are renting out their homes in the Uk and are raking in the money. Their disposable income is substantially more than than of a local resident doing a job with equal responsibilities. If local staff were offered this form of remuneration then i am sure we would have local residents applying . It is a very uneven playing field – particularly in the public sector.
The island is in danger of creating a glass ceiling for local employees – as all the top jobs will be filled by licence holders. Local staff wanting to get on have little chance……..they then leave the island.
Of course there will be exceptions and specialist teachers are probably one of them – but why aren’t head teachers training up local staff to gain the experience necessary?
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I beleive there are now, up to 20+ qualified local teachers who can not get teaching jobs in Guernsey. There also other states departments, that do not or will not use, for numerous different reasons,local qualified people.
It is very stupid, when it is very costly in the long term to train, local young people and then, not use that expertise.
Shame on those who do this.
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Teacher – you are really quite incorrect in your assumption.
Local people are chosen over suitably qualified people who are non-resident every time – I know of multiple positions that had non-residents better suited, qualified and experienced only for the role to go an unsuitable local who would stay in the role for maybe 12 months to 2 years before going elsewhere to have an easy life.
Local people in general haven’t worked in the real world where you are measured against the competition, however as the island reverts to growing tomatoes over the bext 3 years when financial industry pulls out you will see what life is really all about.
Oh and Merlin believe me Guernsey is not so special when you are having to pay exorbitant rent to a local who has four or five houses that they rent out, and taxes for services that you will not use beyond your 1, 3 or 5 year tenure, plus to a pension scheme which will run dry in 10 years, not to mention the racism in place towards ‘foreigners’ which in itself is laughable given that there are few proper ‘Guernsey’ folk anymore.
Even German descendants are more welcome than English, French, Portugeuse etc.
And the final nail in the coffin is that in the last 3 or 4 years many local people have moved overseas to get away from the narrowminded Government and people to a life with a more open outlook.
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Merlin
You say “The onus should be on employers to prove that no local residents capable of doing the job applied”
This would be right if the employing department played the game with Housing.
I recall a situation where a Guernsey resident was a strong candiatte for a teaching job.The local candidate wasn’t even shortlisted. On taking the matter up with Education I made the point that the local had not been shortlisted.
The reply was that he had been shortlisted. On demanding an explanation I was told by the officer concerned that after receiving the complaint, he and a colleague had sat down, iooked at all the applications and drew up a shortlist and they had included the local candidate in the shortlist . They could then answer yes, if asked by Housing if the local was on the shortlist. of course, Housing would not ask what version of the shortlist and when was it drawn up.
This second short list was compiied many months after the job had been filled.
Hard to believe unless you were involved. The two officers concerned will, if they read this, know who they are, and who the local candidate was.
So Merlin, it is easy for a devious department to mislead Housing.
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I also know of similar incidents Stephen. It happens all the time. Of course there will be some leeway but i know from experience that the local resident with equally good qualifications or experience is often overlooked – and the job then goes to a licence holder. I don’t have an axe to grind about licence holders but i do get incensed when they complain when their licence is up and they cannot stay. They have lived here having their rent/mortgage free for several years then sell up making a huge profit while junior staff who are local have had to struggle to cope with high housing costs.
Darren, i do sympathise with you. There are very greedy landlords out there who ask for exorbitant rents – but this has a lot to do with the licence holder being in supply of subsidies which the Guernsey taxpayer is paying? I feel sorry for the local staff who get no help at all with their housing unless they qualify for social housing which appears to be in short supply.
We need to think outside the box here. Senior Civil Servants of departments and politicians should be auditing the number of posts which are filled by licence holders and why. This information should be made public at least annually. Why all the secrecy?
When a job is advertised employers have carte blanche to choose whether, in their opinion, a local resident is suitable. Like Stephen John i also know of incidents when a local person was not chosen for a particular job. I could be paranoid here but a lot of the time i believe it is because the manager is aware that their skills are lacking in particular areas and the applicant could be a threat to them. A lot of senior managers surround themselves with people who are happy to sit back and not implement any changes at all – just employ consultants to relook at old problems and come up with old answers.
The public sector could be slimmed down considerably but of course the people in charge are looking after their own interests. I think if a proper examination of policy and procedures was carried out then we would discover several areas where work is duplicated but not shared.
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I do appreciate that Guernsey is a small island and it does need to control its population. However, we do need non local workers to fill jobs which the current population can simply not do.
And as nonlocal says, the article is about secondary school teachers. As you’ve discussed, there are huge number of PRIMARY school teachers on the island wanting jobs. I too could name friends in similar positions. But unfortunately the same cannot be said for secondary, and as the article suggests, the grammar school is struggling to find suitable replacements, otherwise there wouldn’t be any problem.
I am a student at the Guernsey Grammar school, currently studying for my AS levels. I can speak from first hand experience how distressing it can be for a teacher to leave without a replacement. Unfortunately at the beginning of this school year a maths teacher left due to illness and our class were left without a teacher for just over a month. I can ensure you I have done easier things than teach AS level maths to myself. But of course these things happen. And as the article mentions the grammar school are still looking for a replacement.
So what do you suggest we do?? kick another very talented and qualified A-level teacher off the island because he’s not local! Can you really not understand how this is so ridiculous. They cannot find one replacement, let alone two. And if the replacements are found, we can guarantee they won’t be locals. (Even less likely they will be locals in the future if we don’t have teachers to teach us)
It was also mentioned that there is money given to non-locals for sending them here and rent for a little while to convince them to work here in Guernsey. If we had hundreds of suitable people lining up for jobs, this would be unnecessary. Evidently, wouldn’t we save time and money keeping our already perfect staff?
So don’t you think we should we should thank teachers for educating our children and giving them a better opportunity in life rather than ignorantly complaining that they ‘aren’t from around here’ and sending them on their way?
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Student you are absolutely right.
Surely there is mileage from exempting vital imported staff (and here I am referring to essentials to an island community rather than those who contribute on the economic front) from the vagaries of 5-year housing licences and automatically grant them 15-year licences.
The island will always need teachers, doctors, dentists, nurses etc. and we will always struggle to produce enough locals to fill specialist roles in those professions so its otherwise going to be a never-ending problem. Let’s just take it on the chin and accept that these people will acquire local housing qualifications, as will their children. Its unavoidable.
We can take steps to protect ourselves. A 15-year housing licence is not a 15-year employment contract. If the licenceholder does not come up to scratch professionally then the termination of their employment would mean the end of their housing licence. We must surely be able to find a legal way to favour applications from those with no children or just one child when they arrive, in preference to somebody with 4 children, so that we minimise the effect on our education and health infrastructures. We must also ensure that whenever there are candicates for such jobs with the requisite qualifications then they do not suffer as a result of such an exemption policy but that’s the sort of “check and balance” that should be relatively easy to oversee.
It has to be the way forward and it even permits the remainder of the housing laws to be left alone as they generally serve their purpose well except in the public essential staff sector. Granting certain exemptions to that sector is a practical and simple solution.
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