Disappointment is turning to anger at threatened school
Saturday 10th January 2009, 9:29AM GMT.
ST ANDREW’S SCHOOL PTA has voiced its anger that the report recommending the school remains open may be ignored.
Following yesterday’s news that the majority of the Policy Council supports its closure, PTA chairwoman Maria Tostevin said the association felt let down.
‘We know that the States is looking to save money, but we feel strongly that schools cannot be part of cutting expenses,’ she said.
‘We are bitterly disappointed that the Education minister is not following the report, compiled by experts, that is clearly recommending that St Andrew’s School stays open.
‘What is the point of having experts in to prepare these findings if this is going to be ignored?’
Mrs Tostevin said closure would not only affect the parish’s children but also those at Forest, Castel and St Martin’s.
Because of the number of pupils involved, children at existing primaries could be forced out into others around the island.
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I know that this is an emotive subject, but unless the media release has subsequently been amended since its release, the terms regarding the recommendation whether to close the school or not were clear.
The final paragraphs made it clear that the final decision was with the States and that this was just the Educations recommendations at the time (although I appreciate this seems to have partially changed now)
I don’t think the PTA can really argue when the media release made it clear that the final decision had not yet been made.
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Let’s get some perspective – it’s not the end of the world people.
If St Andrews school closes, children will simply be moved to another island primary school where they will continue to receive a comparitively good standard of primary education. Yes, the journey there may be a little longer but it’s hardly a trek. Certainly no further than the secondary schools they will attend soon enough.
In the UK children often have to travel much longer distances to schools where facilities, behaviour and teaching standards can be far worse.
Let’s be grateful for what we have instead of getting on our parochial high horse about something that in reality is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.
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I think it is very sad that the States’ cost-cutting programme involves the likelihood of taking vital facilities away from the island’s primary civilian infrastructure, instead of cutting back on lavish and unnecessary projects such as the ‘new runway’. I note we always have plenty of money for new yacht marinas and court buildings and such like, but yet when it comes to absolutely essential facilities such as a new mental health unit and the maintenance of our (until now) high standards of education, there is no more money.
And in response to Paul Le P, I assume he has no children. My children don’t go to St Andrews (thankfully) but if their school was threatened with closure I know that we would all find it extremely disruptive and upsetting. Those (St Andrews’) children probably have no idea which schools they will end up attending, they may well be split up from their friends and their teachers and their educational routine will be greatly disrupted.
No, it is not the ‘end of the world’, but it will be a distressing, ill-advised and probably unecessary upheaval for hundreds of people, not to mention the teachers – after all, what will happen to them?
I am ashamed to confess that I voted for Carol Steere in the last election, but I acknowledge my mistake, and she will most certainly not be getting my vote again. I remember the Carol Fletcher who stuck up for the minorities and was a bastion of common sense and liberalism in the face of parochial and right-wing adversity. How times change…
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Bridge – in reponse, I am not yet a father but I will be one in July however I am pretty sure my view wouldn’t change, as I consider my child’s home environment of infinitely greater significance to the school, as well as the place that above everywhere else will aid their development.
My point (which I admit was a little harshly put…apologies for that) was that this isn’t as bad as people are making out. Language like “ripping the heart out of the community” is clearly exaggerated and based on emotions, not facts. Yes, in an ideal world St Andrews would stay open however sometimes things happen that we cannot control and we need to put things into perspective – for the sake of our children.
In regard to the children, their response if the school closed will be largely down to the behaviour of their parents. If parents become disproportionately angry and upset and treat the closure like a national disaster while parading their “distressed” children around for the benefit of the press, yes it is highly likely that the children will become distressed.
If however, they make their case reasonably and, should they lose, be upset yet treat it in a more positive light and reassure their children that actually it isn’t that bad, in fact it’s all a bit of an adventure, then I’m sure they’ll cope well.
After all, children get moved around a lot these days, sometimes to different countries and they often turn out well balanced, happy adults – why is this? Firstly because a child’s emotional development happens most in the home – they look to their parents primarily for guidance and support, not the school. Second, children are are a lot more resilient than we think, it’s the western culture of excessive fear that has cotton-wooled our children so much they can barely walk outside their front door – again a disproportionate response.
As an example, take a look at rescued child soldiers who, with reassurance and care, overcome extreme trauma with circumstances that put a proper perspective on St Andrews school.
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In one breath they lower the tax cap to favour wealthy individuals, and with the next they close down primary schools. It’s all very well using ‘progress’ to ‘rationalise’ expense, but surely we should be hitting those that can afford it rather than mucking about with our childrens’ futures.
Community schools are a valuable asset. They instill a sense of belonging. Society is based on ever increasing circles of connections. Starting with the family and growing outwards through school into adulthood and the resulting ties. By telling kids that their communities are too ‘costly’ to run, you risk alienation and disenfranchisement. Yes, the arguments to keep small, expensive schools open may well be emotional, but then life is fairly emotional.
We keep getting told how ‘rich’ Guernsey is with its increasing billions ‘in deposit’ and its ability to attract high net worths. What’s the point if we are to close communities down for the sake of what are frankly paltry sums compared to what some people have stashed away doing nothing for anybody.
Tax the rich first before preventing community spirit to flourish. Typical thinking from right wingers who don’t know the meaning of society. Get these business driven throwbacks out and promote social conscience. Impose taxes on wealth otherwise the real people will end up suffering to appease the greedy.
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If the problem is student numbers then why not just tweak the borders to increase the numbers.
This is an issue which needs to be looked at anyway and adjusted according to population.
It is unreasonable that schools like Forest and St Andrews can float along with small class numbers around 15 whilst St Martins is bulging at the seams with 30 plus students per class. If St Martins has to also cater for St Andrews students (if it closes) then it would be a disaster in terms of class sizes which are already way to high!
Get some perspective and even up the class ratios so that every child can have an equal opportunity and individual attention in the learning environment.
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When the States talk about Gsy being such a rich society, i’d like to know what benefit, if any, this has on the local people. We are still poor and going under so where is all this money that Gsy is so rich with. It’s no surprise that their picking on the schools after letting children down by taking away the School’s Dentist. I don’t see any States members struggling to pay for their childs braces or trying to explain to creditors that they just don’t have the money to pay for their mortgage or rent. It’s always the local people that suffer and especially the local small business holders. Now they are attacking our very future by leaching money out of our childrens education and well-being. Perhaps if they didn’t spend so much money on expensive meetings in posh settings or trips all over the world to ‘see how other countries do things’ (at the tax payers expense), maybe they wouldn’t be closing down our schools and ruining our Island. No wonder our locals are leaving for other destinations, what has Gsy got to offer the normal person anymore. If your not a rich tax avoider buying a house over here, you may as well not exist!
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Castel, Houguette, Forest and St Martin’s all very close. It seems a no brainer to me.
The funniest thing about this is the St Andrew’s PTA. Many of whom work in finance and have benefitted from 0/10. When business were doing star-jumps in their boardrooms over the approval of 0/10, what did they think was going to happen to the island? We carry on as normal when 90million was taken out of our exchequer?
The school has to go
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Fast Robert – interesting perspective however consider this. If we taxed the rich depositors (many of whom don’t actually live here) they might well simply take their business elsewhere, possibly leading to the collapse of the Finance Industry.
Love it or hate it, finance is the heart of our economy. The wealth it brings in supports many other industries, such as the trades (plumbing, electrical etc).
Consider this scenario: finance industry collapses; mass exodus of both locals and immigrants; less people; less children; less money; schools close due to lack of funding.
It is easy to blame finance and shout “tax the rich” and in principle I agree. It’s a little more complicated than that though and our government is tasked with finding the balance – a task I don’t envy one bit!
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Paul Le P
That sounds like the kind of hysteria that Giba would have us react to en masse to support its farcical notion that the finance industry is the be all and end all of Guernsey. The finance industry would not disappear, it wouldn’t have under stricter tax laws, and it won’t do so until the last drop of disparate global tax policies can be milked for all its worth. The multinationals that enjoy our generosity know they are on a good thing and any changes in personal tax strategies would not affect its raison d’etre.
Some managers may have a gripe about ‘socialism’ but the entities themselves would be largely unaffected. It wouldn’t stop Guernsey attracting the tax avoiders or those seeking our expertise.
It is politics run for vested interests, rooted in the failed ideologies of the last three decades, under the precondition that individualism and the very nature of wealth, should earn idolatory no matter the cost to the wider society.
The finance industry is blameless, it is the politicians weakness to redress the imbalances that is at fault.
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F.R. – I think you misunderstood the point of my post, I wasn’t predicting the imminent downfall of the finance industry, or giving full support to current policy, especially in regard of the imbalance between rich and poor.
I was using that (unlikely and equally simplistic) scenario to show that statements like “tax the rich” don’t tell the full story.
Incidentally, reading your posts, it would seem that we share a similar ethical view on capitalist ideology.
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Its not so much the closing of the school but where all these children are going to go that bothers me class sizes at Castel for instance in some year groups are already approaching 30 which is too big and I’m pretty sure its the same for St Martins. Is the quality of teaching going to suffer ? not to mention that some schools have been operating out of wooden “huts” in the playground for some 20 years ! what next- more “sheds” on the playing fields to accomodate the extras.
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Paul Le P – I knew you wouldn’t be a parent.
In due course, when you become a father and your child eventually starts school, I think then you will understand what a MASSIVE part of your child’s life is spent at school and how vitally important it is that your child is happy and settled and functioning well at school. After all, like it or not, a child spends a great deal of his or her life at school and we are generally at a distinct disadvantage in life if we flunk school. And let me tell you, there are few things less stressful in one’s (western) life than being worried about one’s child.
And I’m sorry, but what have rehabilitated ‘child-soldiers’ got to do with St Andrews school? Now who is being disporportionate? Of course there are always others worse off than ourselves, but life is all about relativity and I doubt your analogy would be of much comfort to the five year olds at St Andrews who are about to be kicked out of their school, or the teachers who will be out of a job.
And in response to your rather bombastic response to my posting, I clearly stated ‘it is not the end of the world’ – you do not need to keep reiterating this point. What I said was that it is ‘upsetting’ and ‘disruptive’ and it doesn’t matter how hard-hearted you are, the closure of St Andrews (or any other school) is an upsetting and disruptive process for those involved.
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Mark, on 15 July 2008 The Education Minister and Director attended a meeting of the St Andrew’s PTA where they clearly stated that if the Education Board was to decide in favour of the school that would be the end of the matter. No requirement for a States debate – just as there wasn’t when they reprieved the Mare this time last year.
Furthermore, how difficult would it have been for someone at Education to have a quiet word with the St Andrew’s PTA when they were celebrating, if they genuinely knew at that time that they were going to backtrack?
Education have handled this in a bumbling, shambolic way throughout.
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If Mrs Steere and Derrick Neale did say that there any decision by the Education Department would be the end of the matter they were clearly wrong.
Thankfully the States is there to ensure the necessary checks this underperforming department needs.
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Bridge re child soldiers: clearly the actual circumstances are hugely different in their proportion however in the context of the post that wasn’t the point. I used this extreme analogy as an example of how resilient children can be when faced with overcoming difficult circumstances, providing that appropriate support and encouragement is given. Taken in the context of the entire post I considered it completely relevant although you are, of course, entitled to disagree.
Finally, I never suggested that closure would not be upsetting and disruptive, I simply questioned the extent.
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I think that Carole Steere needs to get her act toghether. She was all for keeping St Andrews School open but now she suddenly changes her mind. Who does she think she is? she comes back to the Island after living abroad for a number of years and walks straight back into the States, yes she was voted in but then WE all thought she was a true Caring Guernsey person obiously NOT.
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Rosie, I fear that you are not quite correct. It is no secret that the Education Minister has not been in support of keeping St Sampson’s and St Andrew’s schools open.
What the PTA finds deeply disappointing is that her personal politics have over-ridden her duty as Minister of a States Department to such an extent that she cannot support the majority decision of the board she presides over.
There are no educational reasons for closing St Andrew’s and it is only education that is her remit in this context.
Our hope is that the 1,600 people who signed the petition to keep St Andrew’s open and the many more supporters that we know of will lobby their politicians on this issue ASAP.
Deputy Steere may have a loud voice but she has only one vote.
Her manifesto stated: “The next four years will be just as challenging for States members. The financial constraints on States spending will mean some tough decisions . . . . it is about doing what is right to safe guard the community’s well being; socially, economically and environmentally.”
The community of St Andrew’s is a close-knit one. What is right for its wellbeing is to keep the school open!
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What about ensuring ALL children attend the schools that are in their catchment area? I know St. Andrews is never going to be more than a one class entry school due to the size of buildings limiting the number of children per class but surely we should just be making sure that that limit is reached rather than sending these children to schools such as Haute Cappelles which are 3 class entry but are bursting with children already. Would it not be better to keep a smaller school open and adjust the catchment area if necessary for the sake of not overloading schools which are already very big. We have to think of the teachers too. If a teacher that already has a class of 30 is asked to take on more then who is going to provide them with more help with the extra work load (which is already big) to ensure that all the children get the same level of care?
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Jane I totally agree with you, if children went to their catchement area schools then as you say schools like Capelles would not be overloaded. There are children who go to St Andrews because their parents like the idea of small classes, well tough let St Andrews be used for the children of St Andrews. I know of parents who live on the private estate at Les Genats, let their children go to La Mare which is right on their doorstep, also children who live down near L’Ancresse why are they at St Andrews?
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