‘I asked the question minister is now denying,’ says advocate
Tuesday 20th January 2009, 11:30AM GMT.
Advocate Rob Shepherd, left, confirms former PTA chairman Alasdair McLaren’s claim that Education said that if it reprieved St Andrew’s, it would not take the issue to the States. Education minister Carol Steere says that neither she nor director of Education Derek Neale, second right, gave such an assurance and denies the question having been raised. (Montage by John O’Neill, 0705595)
EDUCATION categorically assured the St Andrew’s PTA that the school would be safe if the board decided to keep it open, a leading advocate has said.
The row between the department and the PTA reached boiling point when, in Saturday’s Guernsey Press, former PTA chairman Alasdair McLaren said that Education minister Carol Steere and director of Education Derek Neale had given assurances that the issue would not go to the States for debate if the department decided to save the school.
Mr McLaren said the pair had responded to a specific question during July’s meeting with PTA representatives.
But, in a letter printed in today’s Guernsey Press, Deputy Steere insists the question was never raised.
‘Mr McLaren makes no reference to who answered,’ she said. ‘This is because there is no record of the question being asked or responded to. I therefore take great exception to the inference that I, or the director of the Education Department, have misled the representatives of the St Andrew’s PTA.’
However, Advocate Rob Shepherd, a partner at Ozannes, yesterday confirmed Mr McLaren’s recollection.
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Well I know who I would believe!!
Perhaps readers will look closely at the words of Mrs Steere “This is because there is no record of the question being asked or responded to”.
Does this mean, in the eyes of Education, that questions only exist where they have the written or other record of the question?
I feel Mrs Steer and Derek Neale have bitten off more than they can chew.
Time for resignations?
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Well I have a question for Mr McClaren and the Advocate Rob Shepherd whos firms are all beneficiaries of 0/10.
When you were all glad handing Falla, Trott et al congratulating them on a job well done. Did it not occur to you that the loss of £90million per annum was not going to have an effect on services?
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If others present at the meeting, recall the question and response, then clearly, Mrs Steere would agree that the method used for ‘recording’ what was said, is a failure!.
If so, what will she do to ensure that future minutes are accurately recorded?.
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Stephen
I agree – I also know who I would believe. There is far too much history of this sort of thing in Education’s grubby history over the past couple of decades for it to be ignored.
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Having just read Deputy Steere’s letter in today’s Press, I had to laugh when she says: “…I cannot allow the integrity of the director of education to be called into question in this manner….”. Well, I would have thought he was well used to it by now.
The “Jane Stephens affair”, the disgraceful way in which Education has allowed some of our secondary schools to fall into their current states of disrepair, the 11-plus fiasco and now this whole new sorry state of affairs, all on his watch. I’m sure there are probably others as well.
Some very strong questioning of the competency of some of our island’s senior civil servants needs to be made but I cannot for the life of me quite work out to whom they report. On the face of it they seem to be totally unaccountable for their performance. Isn’t time that taxpayers demanded answers ?
Some of our elected deputies seem incompetent, particularly those Ministers responsible for running departments, but their senior civil servants really don’t help appear to help them one little bit. Shame they don’t also have to stand for election, just like deputies, seeing as we taxpayers are paying for them and they appear to be even more influential than the elected deputies but with no accountability whatsoever.
Do they have annual appraisals or performance reviews ? If so, who by ? If not, why not ?
It’s time for some answers.
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If Deputy Steere’s letter is to be believed, the minutes were taken by the then president of St Andrews School PTA. I’m sure this point at least is easily quantified by a public airing of the minutes.
I appreciate that not every word spoken in a meeting is minuted however if indeed the PTA were responsible for taking minutes and this question was of such significance to their case, why was it not recorded?
The fact that it was not entered at worst calls the PTA version of events into question or at the very least suggests they did not consider it of particular significance at the time.
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I too have read Mrs Steere’s letter.
It should be noted it is a response to the PTA and is clearly crafted to cause as much damage to the comment of the PTA.
Paul Le P is right that all comments are not minuted. Perhaps, in retrospect the PTA will feel the comment should have been minuted.
However, the clarity of the alleged statement was perhaps so obvious, that they didn’t feel it needed recording.
The letter of Mrs Steere, and its composition, merely serves to reinforce my original comments at the head of this thread.
Clearly when Education composed their letter they were not aware that an Advcoate of the Royal Court would state their recall was not correct.
Might well make for an uneasy for days for Mrs Steere.
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Jackie makes an excellent point that cuts through all the obfuscation of what is a silly little side issue.
McClaren and Shepherd and their ‘Save St Andrew’s’ crew are typical of the middle class, well off parents who are fine with cuts in public spending as long as they and their precious offspring can carry on just as they are.
The fact of the matter is that the kids at St Andrew’s and St Sampson’s will get just as good an education at other island schools that have enough space for them and are run more efficiently and cost effectively.
Perhaps the St Andrew’s PTA could tell us which particular education services they’d like to see REALLY suffer if the States don’t have the guts to close these two schools?
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David
Just read you superb post of 3.29pm.
Let’s hope some of the deputies who read these blogs will have the guts to do something. There does seem to be a total lack of accountablility.
The Jane Stephens tribunal report was unique, in my experience, for the absence of anything positive about the senior management.
As for performance reviews don’t make me laugh!!!!!
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Stephen
I couldn’t hold myself back any longer. The straw has broken the camel’s back !
I can live with politicians making bad decisions. They aren’t generally expected to be trained specialists in their field (hence a dangerous over-reliance on their senior civil servants) and we can at least vote to get rid of them every 4 years. But some some senior civil servants can cause far more long-term damage to the island within 6 months than a deputy can within 4 years with no mechanism for being ousted. That’s an awful lot of ongoing damage if somebody holds a senior civil service position for 25-30 years. They can make mistake after mistake ad infinitum and without fear.
I have no problem whatsoever with top-performing civil servants being paid top packages for doing a top job, perhaps even more than at present, but bad or dangerous civil servants need to be removed from the system. Unfortunately if they don’t have any meaningful appraisal system then it can’t happen and taxpayers should not be sitting back and accepting that. It should not be a job for life with a final salary pension scheme and with no accountability whatsoever. They have to come into the real world. After all, surely only the incompetent ones should fear an independent appraisal process.
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Totally agree with David’s comments of 3.29pm today.
Lets see if our politicians really have the guts to do a proper review of the public sector and get rid of the apparently useless and ineffectual senior civil servants we have and promote those who are doing a good job and want to improve things.
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David (5.57pm) – I completely agree with your thoughts. As civil servants effectively make the majority of decisions they too should be held to account as much, if not more, than the politicians who listen to them.
Considering it is the same politicians that get it in the neck when bad decisions are made, I can’t see any reason why they shouldn’t vote into law some measures to ensure regular independent appraisals of our civil servants.
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The zero-10 issue has nothing to do with this matter, which is that yet again a politician and senior civil servant are either a)lacking in memory or b)being evasive and maybe even deliberately misleading.
I really don’t know what the States is coming to, it appears to be full of liars, racists, people who threaten their colleagues, and self-serving individuals who are only in it for their own gain. It’s a sad, sad state of affairs, and alas it seems to be getting worse all the time.
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Phil
I agree.
The solution is quite simple. Reduce the size of the States of Deliberation to just 12, all elected island-wide.
Pay 10 elected deputies £100k-plus a year (their hours and the responsibilities that they hold justify this, even if some current deputies don’t seem to recognise the latter), which would attract the very best available, rather than those who can merely afford the time or relish the power or have the stomach to sit through most of the cr*p of the current system, which I know is a massive deterrent to many people I know and who would otherwise be keen to stand for election. No need then for a separate Policy Council as this body would be small enough to be just as effective.
Revitalise the parish Douzaine system and use it to be a strong voice to represent parishioners. Douzainiers to be elected on a parish or district basis and the elected Douzainiers to be paid a salary in line with what non-ministerial deputies currently earn (funded by having 37 fewer elected deputies). Out of the elected parish or district Douzainiers an island-wide vote would elect 2 of them to join the 10 elected Deputies in a House of Assembly of 12.
Put in place a system to actively and professionally manage the civil service with proper staff appraisals and performance-based remuneration, as in the real world. Make them far more accountable than at present on an ongoing basis. If they aren’t prepared to accept those terms, then they find another job (albeit one without a final salary pension scheme, of course).
Everything gets streamlined and simplified, only 12 voices rather than 47 voices need to be heard in the States of Deliberation, everybody gets voted in island-wide, more influence gets returned to the parishes via the Douzainiers, and the civil service becomes what it should be – one which serves the taxpayer rather than the other way round.
Any takers ?
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St Andrews is increasingly looking like a private school without any of the annoying things like fees most other parents of privately educated schools have to endure.
Would any of the beneficiaries of 0/10 like to sponsor a pupil? What with all the money finance houses and the like have made out of the new tax regime, they could fund the school very easily.
Or shall we just keep paying for the inefficiency of the system?
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The proportion of parents at St Andrew’s who work in financial services and related industries is no different to any other States primary school. And St Andrew’s is not the most expensive per pupil to operate – it’s fifth on the list.
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Prefect. The parish does, however, seem to have a disproportionate number of advocates with children at the school. At least three so far have spoken on behalf of the PTA, which rather begs that old question:
Why does St Andrew’s have all the lawyers and the Vale all the rubbish?
Answer: The Vale had first choice!
Boom boom!!!
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I would have thought that St.Andrews pupils then go onto Les Beaucamps secondary school, isn’t that the very school that the education would like to refurbish or rebuild,with the money saved by closing unecessary schools, so in all eventually benefitting the St. Andrews pupils, I feel they are being very selfish or do they all go on to private schools at 11, that does seem to be case. Children adapt very easily and I now feel that the parents are not helping themselves or the children by making these larger schools sound like some bad place to go to school, they are losing a lot of public support.
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we need bigger, better equipped schools. not very old schools with a quick lick of paint. how much is it costing the tax payer every year to heat these old schools? how much to keep up the running repairs? none of the old schools can cope with the amount of parking needed..amherst is a good case of this. st peter port sec. school has now been classed as past it, why not the others? we need to look at other small islands and see how they are moving into the 21st century. this is going to cost us a lot of money long term…again!
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Education is about development, yes. It is about passing on knowledge in an unbiased way. Education is about informed judgement. Education seeks not to be punitive, or damning, or deceptive in its make-up. Open your eyes; no, really open them, & look at the intent, purpose & validity of your Director’s relentless efforts. Get a grip Guernsey.
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