Flouquet survives
Wednesday 28th January 2009, 4:17PM GMT.
BERNARD Flouquet today remains as Guernsey’s deputy chief minister after a deeply divisive vote in the States.
But the Guernsey Press can reveal that things would have been very different if members had stuck to their original stance over the racist joke he told at a press conference in November.
The States threw out a motion of no confidence by 24 votes to 21.
But some of those who voted for Deputy Flouquet to remain in his post or did not take part in the debate believed originally that he should have resigned.
As time ticked by, however, members who had signed a letter asking for him to consider his position, and others who had done so in private, backed down for a variety of reasons from voting for him to go.
Members were resolute that it was time to move on now a democratic decision had been made. Ministers who voted for him to lose the job made a point of talking to him afterwards along those lines.
Deputy Flouquet was, however, officially reprimanded for his ‘joke’. He gave a remorseful speech, and again apologised, but did not take part in the no confidence debate.
How they voted on the no confidence motion:
For: Deputies Barry Brehaut, Jenny Tasker, Jan Kuttelwascher, Carol Steere, Martin Storey, Leon Gallienne, Ivan Rihoy, Jane Stephens, Matt Fallaize, Geoff Mahy, Mary Lowe, Andrew Le Lievre, Hunter Adam, Tom Le Pelley, Sean McManus, David De Lisle, Marc Laine, Shane Langlois, Gloria Dudley-Owen, Charles Parkinson and Mike Hadley. Total: 21
Against: Deputies Carla McNulty Bauer, Roger Domaille, Allister Langlois, John Gollop, Jack Honeybill, Mike Collins, Peter Gillson, Sam Maindonald, Scott Ogier, Lyndon Trott, Tony Spruce, Graham Guille, Dave Jones, Mark Dorey, Barry Paint, Mike Garrett, Al Brouard, Peter Sirett, Francis Quin, Mike O’Hara, Robert Sillars and Janine Le Sauvage and Alderney representatives Richard Willmott and Bill Walden. Total: 24
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Shame on the 24 of them for supporting this shoddy behaviour!
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I find it absolutely incredible that a minister facing a vote of no confidence is allowed a vote.
Credit where it’s due to Flouquet for abstaining and allowing the House to decide.
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Roll on the next election when hopefully the Guernsey population will come to their senses and get rid of him! He’s a complete waste of space and an embarrassment. Will we get to see who voted what?
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This is just the sort of result I was dreading – a close vote showing that our legislators are split right down the middle on this issue.
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Oh, Bernard! You remind me of my Uncle Frank.
Once he had become so debilitated with emphysema he couldn’t sleep comfortably in bed, my Aunt got him an invalid chair: the sort that can tilt and swivel and even stand you up onto your feet by raising and tipping you forward. This was an enormous boon to Frank, who had become terribly weak and tottery! This amazing chair had a little jobbie, just like a TV remote, which drove it at the touch of a button.
Imagine my Aunt’s horror when she came out one morning to find Frank, fast asleep, head thrown back, mouth wide open and standing bolt upright in front of his chair!!! He’d had the controller in his hand and hit the ‘stand up’ button in his sleep! How he didn’t have a dreadful fall and hurt himself badly, we’ll never know. But poor Auntie thought on her feet (so to speak) and gently pushed him in the middle as she also pushed the ‘sitdown’ button on the chair controller. Frank sat peacefully down in his chair and slept on!
After that occasion, my Uncle stood himself up several times in his sleep and gave us all sorts of anxiety attacks. But not matter what he *would not* relinquish the controller, even to go to sleep.
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Please publish the names of all those who voted to support Flouquet as well! I am as appalled by their behaviour in supporting this pathetic excuse for a politician now as I am with Flouquet himself.
Truly a bad, bad day for Guernsey.
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If any of them were taken in by his ‘contriteness’ then they take emotions above competence as a valid gauge of political skill.
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There is absolutely no place for racism anywhere on this earth. Absolutely no excuses for this ‘slip’. Please let the legislators get rid of him now – there must be another vote after such a close result! – The man is a disgrace!!
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I sincerely hope that we will learn who voted to keep him in, then all of them can be castigated for such shameful behaviour
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Why has so much time and effort been wasted on this when there is so many much more important issues to be sorted out?
Its us taxpayers that have been footing the bill for all this!
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Unbelievable.
That a man of his (low) calibre and exceedingly poor judgement can remain in situ is nothing short of astonishing.
My 12 year old cat would be a better and abler DCM.
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So there are 25 ministers who are racist in Guernsey then….
Quite amazing.
I see old Trott doesn’t take a unilateral decision on this one, i.e. fire him.
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I hope the ’21′ continue this fight because it is a fight for the welfare of this island. Deputy Gollop agreed he should go but did not like the mechanism!! What stop sitting on the fence and act on those promises that we in St Peter Port North voted for. Clever move by the Flouquet camp to get the debate extended over lunch, what bullying went on then? In one fell swoop the States has ensured another divided 4 year fight in the states and for what…protect a racist who puts his own welfare before those he swore to serve.
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At last this terrible ordeal is over for Deputy Flouquet and he can carry on with his work which he does very well. We all make mistakes and I found this particular error of judgement not serious enough to lose a job. I hasten to add that I knitted a g—y w-g for my daughter when she was young and saw no malice whatsoever. I finish by saying read the quote that Deputy Dave Jones stated this morning that the new American President believes in free speech. Please let the States get on with more serious jobs, like the airport runway and the sewage and schools.
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I wonder where this vote leaves the States? Deputy Flouquet may have won the vote but it is a hollow victory. He now sits as Deputy Chief Minister of the States with the knowledge hanging over his head that over 40% (a significant minority) of the House considers him unfit for office.
As long as he remains in a ministerial role this will hang over his head like the Sword of Damocles. Speaking of swords, politicans have fallen on theirs over less than this.
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Time to move on people. Apologised, reprimanded, apologised, apologised again, discussed, vote taken, vote lost – it’s over. :)
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I am concerned that not enough concern has been shown by those concerned with the lack of concern that this no-concern vote has shown.
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The names of the 24 deputies must be published so the public can make an informed choice on whether or not to vote for those who condone racism.
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I really did hope that the States would see sense and support the Vote of No Confidence in the Deputy Chief Minister, and then he would see the light and slip off and allow a vote for a New Deputy to the Chief Minister. What a shame that the States in their collective wisdom well 24 of them anyway, decided to tell not just Guernsey, but the whole world that racist comments are tolerated in this Island, well, by the majority of the States Deputies anyway! Comments like this have no place in society, and certainly not in Government. We have a postponed visit from the IMF at the end of the year, not to mention that the tax legislation being discussed in the US will all centre on the island we call home, how do we look in the eyes of other countries?
Deputy Flouquet I have a few words for you. You do not represent my views or those of nearly all I have spoken to on the matter. You seem to think that a simple apology, no matter how many times it is said is enough, it is not! If you believed yourself to be the man for the Deputy Chief Minister you should see that what you did was wholly wrong and by trying to be a leader, amongst others, you should have set an example. Your behaviour fell well short of what the average person in the street thinks to be acceptable.
Three hours of debate, which would have been time well spent on a number of other pressing topics before the current States, and would have been three hours if Deputy Flouquet had been removed from the position. Not to be I am afraid…
I did not hear the debate so until the Guernsey Press is printed I have no idea if the vote was recorded. I hope for many it was, and I hope for those who voted to accept this type of comment of a Senior Government Minister; you have trouble with your conscience.
Please remember that a term in politics is not long, and believe me the voters have very long memories!
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Various personal opinions aside, it is good to see democracy is still alive and well in the beautiful highly desireable Island of Guernsey.
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So, the 47 deputies accept the independent code of conduct panel’s damning findings against BF yet 24 of them totally disregard them in the vote of no confidence. Those 24 are a disgrace to this island, what a message to send out. Our govermnent cannot be trusted to set basic standards. Guernsey’s old boys’ club is creaking but still intact. A truly terrible day. Nearly 50% of his colleagues have no confidence in our DCM, how can he continue? Why would he want to? It is not difficult to imagine.
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Honestly how could he think for one second that people would find his remark funny.
I maybe just a kid but even I can see that what he said was so distinguishingly wrong. So how racist is the population of Guernsey seen by others of different cultures. if a man of his position can crack a ‘JOKE’ like that and not be punished in anyway…. The truth is, its about time that all the old aged deputies(and other men in suits)that are still living in the ‘stone age’ and don’t understand/respect how much things have changed over the past few years, are finally bumped off, making room for the younger generations to give their input. And maybe, just for once make some sensible suggestion on what to do with Tax payers money.
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My goodness, there would appear to be some implausibly perfect people in Guernsey. the man made a mistake and has apologised, repented and allowed his peers to determine his fate. Whilst I do not approve of what was said, I do respect a person for admitting that a mistake was made (admitted and apologised for on inumerable occasions).
We do not live in a perfect world, and there can be no person who, if being honest, has not done or said something that could be considered wrong, illegal or immoral. I do not believe it acceptable to be racist, but I do believe that every country, nationality, creed race and colour has an inalienable right to occasionally, in good spirit, poke fun at one another, whether it be on the grounds of beliefs, appearance or common traits. If any of the witch-hunters can honestly say that one joke is fundamentally different than another, purely because it relates to a black person, then I would have to disagree and ask whether they have ever laughed at an Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman joke, or thought it ammusing that Pakistani’s own most UK cornershops. That is a generalisation based upon race, but hardly offensive. I hate to point out the obvious, but our Head of State is WHITE and the new US president is BLACK, fortunately there are always shades of GREY, in what people believe is and is not ‘right’. Racism, meant as racism, is wrong; an inappropriate and ill-considered comment, from a man whom has spent many years doing an admiral job for the island is clearly different.
In the context that it was said, this was not a racist statement. On the subject of racism, how many in this day and age find in unnacceptable that we have a White Police Officers Society within the Metropolitan Police force……ok, we don’t but we do have a Black Police Officers Society.
If I had to close with one thought, it is that I do sincerely believe the media have played an appalling role in spreading information beyond the shores of Guernsey on this matter. Their involvement in attempting to contact foreign government offices, allegedly to seek comment, but in reality ensuring that as many people as possible are informed is not good for Guernsey PLC, however as my grandfather would have said, ‘paper never refused ink’.
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booo
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This is appalling, how could someone who made a mistake, apologised for it several times in public and suffered a very public trial by his peers not be torn limb from limb, have his house burnt down and his entire family shipped off to the colonies? I, for one, have never committed a single sin, uttered a word of prejudice against any colour or creed or broken a single law. I take the Daily Mail, like everyone else commenting on this story, own a trouser-press and wish to focus all the anger generated by my own miserable existence on this very handy scapegoat.
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time to give this a rest i think….how much further do you want to go? Florence Kate Upton can rest in peace again.
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Hmmm “the Assembly unanimously voted to reprimand Deputy Flouquet for his actions”.
Can anybody shed some light on how he is being “reprimanded”?
Is it a little meeting to explain what he did was racist and dont do it again? (or else!) Is it a little slap on the wrist? Less taxpayer funded lunches or trips? Taxpayer funded therapy sessions? A drop in pay? (doubt it) Parking space taken away and forced to fight it out on the seafront? (equally unlikely) having to work past 6pm? (OMG shock horror!)
Anyone any ideas? …anyone….anyone…
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This man has dedicated his life and career to the people of this Island.Lets show him some respect for his service.I am glad it is to continue.
Meanwhile, does anyone know what Barrack Obama meant when he refered to having a “Weezze” recently? Was he white he would dare not say that.Its a referance to a racial stereotyping show.I would say the Island has had a wheezze over reverse racism quilt trips on this issue.
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If Flouquet had any decency or even a modicum of humility he would take a vote of 24 to 21 as a sign that he should do the right thing and voluntarily resign rather now than rely on such an incredibly hollow victory. But then perhaps this type of victory reflects the state of his head!
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This whole affair is a sad reflection of the calibre of Guernsey’s Deputy’s and it’s govenment as a whole.
The DCM dosen’t have the sense not to make a rasist joke in public. And half the Island’s Deputy’s don’t have the sense to see what a vote of confidence in him look’s like to those outside the house.
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Right, Good, all finished and put to bed! Lets get on with what we pay you for…to run the Island!!!!! (thanks for the laugh Marm!)
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I’ve given this some further thought overnight and, speaking as someone who thought Deputy Flouquet should resign, I hope now that the States can move on from this sorry episode and get on with the business of running the island.
I maintain my view that this vote was not about whether Flouquet is a racist (I don’t think he is, just somewhat naive) and this vote was solely based on his competence to hold a ministerial position in the current social climate, which was rightly questioned.
I am now content to accept the decision of the States and move on. This may sound rather woolly but here’s the reasoning:
1. Whether we agree with the result or not, the issue was openly aired and put to the vote – that is democracy. I disagree with Malcolm Barnes who is calling for another vote…democracy is not having continous ballots until you get the desired result…we are not the EU!
2. We (me included!) elected our government to govern, we may not agree with every decision they make but lest we forget, it was us who put them there.
3. It will do the island’s reputation no good to have a States bitter and divided over this issue. Those who wanted Flouquet to resign have had their say in public, so they can rest soundly knowing that their voice was heard and noted.
4. I for one don’t want this episode hanging over the States or the island for the next four years – we live in serious times and we need a government fully focused on the issues at hand, not bitterly divided over one issue.
5. The electorate will have the opportunity to decide whether Flouquet is fit to govern come the next election, so there will be a time for the public to make their voice heard.
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Wil – A reprimand is a ‘slap on the wrist’ without the actual physical contact, this is noted in the public records and is deemed to be a blemish on his political career.
The vote of no confidence was about accountability, taking responsibilty for ones actions. However, listening to some of the garbage spouted out by a few members who voted against the motion, you would might have thought it was about the media.
Deputy Trott voted in response to voters in his parish overwhelmingly in support of Deputy Flouquet holding on to the Deputy Chief Minister. post, so no doubt those voters will expect Deputy Trott to vote in the same manner with other issues.
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Well that was one hell of a witch hunt that’s end in failure, Our States have now spoken.
But I’m so total, total ashamed by the way some Guernsey people have acted over this matter.
Not just by Mr BF poor humour but by the way the vigilante’s have screaming their opinion from the roof tops. Make mountain out of mole hill.. I sure there are some of them still heating tar the oil and gathering the feathers. Even now regrouping and reorganizing their personnel hate campaign against BF.
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I cannot stand racism and anyone, especially in politics, who makes racist remarks, joking or not, should have the decency the stand down. I am digusted that this politician is allowed to remain in the States.
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Agree wtith Paul Le P. Move on – get over it. There has been a vote by our representatives. That’s what they are supposed to do, we now have a result. Let’s stop wasting time and get on with running the island. Silly nonsense. Let the electorate vote him out when they time comes. That’s democracy. Any notion of having another ballot is just a waste of time, money and effort. I, like Paul Le P, was baying for his sacking until a couple of days ago, but I think enough is enough. The man’s an idiot, but you’ve got lots of idiots in the States of Guernsey, running our island. Do we need to have this sorry state of affairs where we continue to have votes of no confidence whenever somebody behaves like a loon or says something completely misguided and/or inappropriate and/or offensive? Put the toys back in the pram and grow up and let these people get on with running our lives again.
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Whilst my comment earlier was quite tongue-in-cheek, Im still bewildered that he got off so easily. A reprimand means nothing. Nowhere but Guernsey i suppose- but that is quite a lame comment itself and no excuse.
So you kept your job, well done Bernard- but at the cost of your dignity, reputation and honor. Will this be your legacy? Will it be what you are remembered for? All may not be lost, the public is and will be watching you- and watching closely. Work hard and fast now; redeem yourself by proving your competence to the people. If indeed you deserve your position, now is the time to shine.
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Paul Le P
Just picking up on your #2 point above about electing our own government, not strictly accurate as I could only vote for candidates in the Vale!!! Even then I only used 2 or 3 of my 7(?) votes.
But this is going off topic. The votes have cast, time to move on I guess.
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Deputy Matthews usually has a lot to say for himself on most subjects,usually in opposition to the Policy Council recommendations
I can’t see his name in the for or against voting list. Did he pop out for a fag at a convenient time?
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It has been voted on & he remains in place – end of story… Lets all leave this alone now & move on…
There is a plus side in the fact that Mr Flouquet is now going to keep his nose clean & work twice as hard to try & win the public back – so thats a good thing eh?!
As for the remarks he made (back when the Ark was around it seems now!)- if people are still harping on about it & demanding his resignation, then please – you need to get out more & find yourself a life!!
If you struggle & find that you find yourself compelled to sit & write time & time again about how this disgusting man should not only be resigned but hounded off the island or hung drawn & quartered, then may I suggest doing some charity work or something??
Oh no – I forgot – we cant live & let live in todays world can we…..!!
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Russ – point taken. There are few democracies where you get to elect all your representatives – most of the time simply because the nation is too large.
Guernsey is definitely small enough to allow this though, with a few changes to the voting system, so perhaps this episode is another reason why we should seriously consider island-wide voting?
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The fact is its not about the joke, the racist tones or the way in which this issue has been protrayed in the press.
The issue is a high ranking official said something that he should have known would cause offence to some, that being the case once its reported he should have stood down or been removed.
I think the issue now revolves around the fact that somehow the rules by which the rest of the world operates do not apply here. Thats fine if the Channel Islands want to remain out of step with the modern world, and if that is the case we will need a very high calibre of goverment to manage our fortunes as we go it alone.
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As one who was ‘baying for his blood’ I must say I agree with WH Bonney, Russ, Jackie etc that it’s time to move on now. My opinion hasn’t changed but the vote has been cast, whether we like the outcome or not. This is my final comment on this episode.
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To quote the late Douglas Adams
“To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting elected [President] should on no account be allowed to do the job.
To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.”
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Over egging it again Business Bloke. Poland, Austria and Italy, to name but a few countries with errant leaders or voting in a non PC way.
The whole “Guernsey reputation” thing is wildly over stated.
As for Leon Gallienne saying, and I quote ‘the majority of the island wanted Bernard to resign’. Did they Leon, there was a referendum? Or did you just make that ‘fact’ up on the spot?
No need to respond, I know the answer.
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Business Bloke, yes Guernsey is, and always has been, out of step with the rest of the world. Nothing has changed here and nothing ever will. That’s the charm of Guernsey and why I’ll always be proud to be a Guern, even though I live thousands of miles away. We’ll always have muppets leading our island, that’s the way it has always been. I cringe when I think of some of the people who have been elected since I was a child back in the 60s. BF has been a BF (Bloody Fool). George Bush ruled the world for years by offending people and he never had to have his comments or ability to do his job debated for several hours. Was there ever going to be any other outcome? Yes he’s a lame duck with many detractors but he’s still there. This is a democracy and the islanders have had the power to get him removed but it hasn’t happened. The face we can see how our politicians voted, the fact that it was debated at all has given the people the voice. But still he is there. Let the electorate decide at the next election. For sure he will go (that’s why I don’t understand why he just doesn’t do the decent thing). It’s finished now so unclench and deal with it.
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Thank you for posting the names of the 24 deputies who let Flouquet stay- we can be sure to vote against them next election this way.
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So, Popeye barely scraped into the States, scraped into the Deputy
post goodness knows how, and scraped through the no confidence vote; perhaps the ‘eyes’ have it?!
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Lauren M – exactly. Those of us who consider this whole sorry affair a blight on Guernsey’s name – and a potential time bomb waiting to go off when (not ‘if’) someone wants to have a go at ‘Tax Havens’ – have one weapon left – our votes. I now know who I am not voting for at the next election.
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A question for all those who wish to ‘move on’. If our Government cannot be trusted to set and apply basic standards, where does this responsibility now lie?
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Bryn – do not mistake the desire to move on after the democratic process has been satisfied with letting the government off the hook of responsibility. Make no mistake, the government remains accountable to the people of Guernsey – something they will be acutely aware of come the next election.
Those who have said move on (many of whom on this thread opposed Deputy Flouquet) may not have agreed with the result but have realised that continually flogging the dead horse is counter-productive. It will not remove Flouquet from office but it may well divert the States from other important issues facing the island.
Don’t worry – there will be ample opportunity at the next election for us the public to make our opinions heard. Until that time, it is simply a case of allowing the government to get on with dealing with the many serious issues we are faced with, such as education, the economy, sewage and the environment.
It is also an opportunity for Deputy Flouquet to demonstrate to the people of Guernsey that his remorse was genuine, he is capable of retaining a position of leadership and this really was just a one off gaffe. I’m content to give him this opportunity, safe in the knowledge that he will think very carefully before trying his hand at stand up comedy again.
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So, the States has voted to do nothing, resulting in a sorry waste of time.
Would anyone who is surprised please step forward.
…
…
Thought not.
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hopefully now some of you whining witch hunters can put all your hot air and effort into righting the real injustices in the world, like invasions into Gaza and the slaugther of women & children.Maybe with half the effort you put in over this issue something would change.
flouquet stays get over it and get a life and just remember that these deputies have families that have to listen & read to rude,spiteful and sometimes seemingly hate filled comments about them that are no less hurtful to the families than to hearing a racist joke if you’re an ethnic minority or related to someone who is.
Worth bearing in mind BE NICE !
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It’s over people! The vigilantes had their pop at getting rid and it failed. GET OVER IT!
No doubt the media and all you other head hunters out there will keep this issue going for another few years yet!
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Bryn though I still have my usual concerns even I think that it is indeed time to move on.
I think you have naive and utopian ideals of government that neither our States, or indeed I would argue, ANYBODY elected to power can uphold.
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Apart from Flouquet, Lyndon Trott comes out of this very badly. Having initially used the situation to state privately that BF had majority support (plainly untrue as a number of States members backtracked for some reason only their jaundiced short sighted reasoning can explain) – I have an extremely pompous email from him – he referenced the incident in his ‘mad’ couple of weeks when he thought he could wrest power away from the supine concensus and form himself as El Presidente.
These people need to understand that outside of their sycophantic entourage and those that are weak enough to ‘accept positions’ in favour of support, their stock is extremely low. It was low enough anyway.
Very disappointed in John Gollop, his fatuous statement that ‘he should have resigned’ but then voting to have ‘confidence’ in him shows a lack of progress and a wanting for the same mistakes to keep occurring. If he was so passionate in the ‘let him be re-elected’ refrain, then why not get him kicked out so he can fight again in three years time. No logic there.
And Scott Ogier. True colours coming out now. Just because he’s managed to get himself into BF’s office as deputy Public Services, doesn’t mean he should abandon what ethics he purportedly once held.
The rest of them are all predictable. So very, very predictable. Especially Dave Jones.
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Good 4 him!!!!
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@Bryn
With you, and every other member of society. The utterly revolting piety of the baying mob displayed throughout this issue is the kind of ‘standard’ I dread seeing in my children, and the kind of response I can thankfully expect of none of my friends or peers.
Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone should be given a second chance when they demonstrate genuine contrition. Look back across your life and tell me you’ve never been in that kind of situation, and then consider what it would feel like to have the most important part of your life’s work destroyed because of it without any forgiveness in those around you.
As for the ridiculous claims that this has in anyway damaged Guernsey’s ‘reputation’ they’re not really worthy of discussion. Guernsey will always be seen as a tax-haven by those on the mainland, already evoking in most a feeling of jealousy and bitterness long before any of this, but some see an opportunity to avoid feeding a greedy and wasteful UK government and their money has long been welcome here. Mr Flouquet’s joke won’t be remembered by a single one of them six months from now, and even the most sensitive investor wouldn’t avoid doing business with the island on the basis of one tasteless joke by some local politician. Not that that will make one jot of difference to the majority of malcontents that seemed to lead this ignorant crusade, they’ll always find an axe to grind because spilling bile and vitriol is far easier than setting a good example themselves.
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Yesterday, in the States, I delivered a speech during the “no confidence” debate and it has been suggested that I post a copy of the written sections of that speech on this site.
I would not be so presumptious as to imagine that there would be much demand for such a posting but I will await the response of other contribuors and of the moderator.
Given the need for us to move on, I would not wish to rekindle the discussion. Rather, in the interests of open government, simply to enable those who were unable to follow the debate to understand the stance of one who felt compelled to sign the original letter.
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NJ….
How very true, But these donkeys ware blinkers.. killing of women and children is less important to some then BF bad joke..
Very sad really..
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Im so appalled by some of the juvenile remarks here:-
“get over it”
“get a life”
“mob mentality”
“witch hunt”
etc etc etc
So low standards………
It takes a lot of guts to speak out about inappropriate behaviour, -to drive change, work for a better way and rally against incompetence. The mob here is the people who would rather sit back and do nothing (except for name calling from the back) – as long as the local pub stays open then “wha-ever”.
If you cant produce an argument containing facts concerning why he should not have resigned from his external posts based on his competency then why make a statement at all? The argument that he is okay because Guernsey has always had incompetent politicians and dont expect anything to ever change, is not acceptable! Why do you set the bar so low? How can you live with your heads in the sand?
He is staying as Deputy for now, i accept that (and dont say that i dont),- but that doesnt mean we should let him off the hook. I will be watching to see what he can do. Let him prove what he is made of and why he maintained his position. If he is truly working for the public i want to see him work- and working hard. I want results.
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Wil
“If he is truly working for the public i want to see him work- and working hard. I want results.”
I think we all expect that from all of our deputies. As has been stated earlier, time to focus on States general performance. Don’t let them use this issue to fog their own incompetencies.
30million structural deficit, overspends, contract issues, left pulling against right, generally inability to make decisions, and the ones they do usually cost us millions.
I’m not diminishing your personal concerns over BF and respect your right express that opinion.
People, please remember that personal episodes; be that Fallagate Gollygate, RandomPoliticianGate, KnockYourTeethOutGate always let politicians off the hook – they often use this as a breather and a diversionary tactic that allows them to perform/grandstanf in public.
The issues that face this island are far, far greater than a transient politicians indiscretions.
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Yes, we all make mistakes. Yes, we should be forgiven them when we apologise genuinely – which I have no doubt Flouquet has done.
But this is not about that. It is about his competence and judgement as Deputy Chief Minister, and appropriateness as External Envoy. He has demonstrated his unsuitability for either.
The appropriate process has been followed, and he has remained in position – which raises severe concerns about the wisdom of the 24 Deputies who voted for him. We know who they are, and I for one will not vote for any of them.
I hope for Guernsey’s sake that the world forgets his crassness and the foolishness of his supporters in the States.
I, for one, will not.
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If I worked somewhere where I was so unpopular amongst my colleagues, I would resign!
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Ed Smith
“Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone should be given a second chance when they demonstrate genuine contrition.”
I have never uttered a racist joke as a Deputy Chief Minister in front of rolling cameras and then have the barefaced cheek to try and cover the glaring error. Have you?
So what barometer are you using to base your opinion? Do you regularly tell your children that casual racism is OK?
No one was talking about not forgiving the individual, that’s just you being over emotional, but about professional competency. As ever, apologists cannot see the wood for the trees.
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Well at least the majority island opinion was reflected in the States. Only 5 people were upset enough about Mr Flouquet’s behaviour to actually complain to the States Members Conduct panel. By my maths that means a majority of about 59,000 weren’t.
How many of you who have written above against Mr Flouquet actually bothered to complain ? If you couldn’t be bothered to complain officially that’s your problem …..
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Toby
Nonsense. Sheer political expediency. Many members backtracked. And yes, my family did complain, thanks for asking.
Your post highlights that you think Guernsey should rightfully be happy to excuse incompetence and casual racism.
That’s all of our problem, being in the dark ages.
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Fast Robert I do not condone nor excuse racism and incompetence. And I commend you for doing what hardly anyone did and actually complain.
But who in the States, or writing here, has never told a joke about an Irishman or a Scotsman or a Frenchman or a German etc etc etc. Who amongst us has never said something inapropriate at the wrong moment and lived to regret it?
My point is that only five people out of 60,000 considered Mr Flouquet’s actions bad enough to warrant a complaint. If the overwhelming majority of the Guernsey public aren’t actually all that bothered then so be it. The minority may be right in this case, but they are still the minority.
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What a shock to the system. The usual suspects, in the main, support the motion of no confidence. They are the majority of the dross that are in the States at this time. How much more of their irrelevant left wing rubbish have we to endure.
Flouquet and Trott were not fit for purpose in the first place, a fact realised by the electorate when they only scrapped in at the election. But to react as the rable did to an extremely unfunny joke is just trouble making and confirms how unfit the supporters of the motion, in the main, are for political office.
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Oh dear Jasper. So standards mean nothing? I can’t really see what’s left wing about that.
Like the right wing economic policies of the western world have proven benevolent and progressive, yeah?
What planet are some people on?
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Difficult decisions have to be made when you are a politician and it seems to me that quite a few of them in the States at present just go along and vote for an easy life, no hassle, lets vote for the easiest option and to hell with the consequences.
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I do love this debate, mostly because people seem to think that Mr Flouquet is some sort of globe-trotting marketeer selling the glories of doing business in Guernsey to international captains of industry. Hate to shatter those illusions but, even if a small part of of his role is external-facing, the majority relates (quite-rightly) to day-to-day island business. He seems to be at least as competent as the rest of the states members in this regard, and if you have it in for the majority of states members then why haven’t you stood and been elected yourself?
Of the few people outside the island who have contact with BF, either personally or through the states, how many will (a) remember his crap joke, or more importantly (b) allow anything he’s done to affect their decision to do business / come to the island / etc? In reality, none.
As to FR’s “Do you regularly tell your children that casual racism is OK?”. Please, tell me you didn’t write that! If my kids were to say something racist then I’d tell them not to, I wouldn’t drag them round the neighbourhood screaming in their faces that they’re not fit to be my kids and are a disgrace on the family name. The metaphor works particularly well as BF, like a child, obviously didn’t mean to offend, he just didn’t know any better (sad, but utterly true). I think he probably does now, I don’t think any lasting damage has been done to anyone whatsoever, and I’m sure he’ll be working ten times as hard to regain the public’s trust over the coming years.
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One of the interesting things, coming out of this fiasco.That listening to the long speech, from our Minister of Leisure and Culture, and nominated for achiever of the year Mike O’Hara.
This was of course in defence of BF.
What he said was that BF thought, he was in the company of the media, who were his friends.
He believed that the media trapped BF, and that they were malevolent, in the way they used him, or his joke. He did not find out until later, that the kind of joke he liked had been used, against him.
This coming from one of our most prominent, and respected Deputies, should be answered by the media.
Perhaps apologies to our Deputy Chief Minister, might be in order.
Just goes to show you can not trust friends, now a days.
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Ed Smith says
“If my kids were to say something racist then I’d tell them not to, I wouldn’t drag them round the neighbourhood screaming in their faces that they’re not fit to be my kids and are a disgrace on the family name. The metaphor works particularly well as BF, like a child, obviously didn’t mean to offend, he just didn’t know any better (sad, but utterly true).”
But would anyone have told BF without the resulting fuss? If he had resigned immediately, apologised and then put himself up to be re-elected, that would have been satisfactory process. Comparing a DCM in a press conference to a child in the home is nonsense. Still wouldn’t trust him, but at least there would be integrity. His fault entirely for listening to cronies’ advice.
David, are we to assume that Mike O’Hara’s version (was he at the press conference) is one derived from the private gnashing of teeth from BF? I think if the assembled media is in front of you, and the little red light is on the camera (he must have done many, many of these conferences), then you keep the tawdry part of your brain in check. Why would ‘friends’ want to harm a political career? That telling does not seem truthful to me.
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Having heard and read about the US president Obama inaugaration speech, not one word about Bernard Flouquet or Guernsey, Strange! when the doom merchants of a few weeks ago were predicting that when the story got to the US there would be hell to pay, I expected a contigent of US marines to arrive on Vazon beach at any time.
Perhaps the US president has a few more pressing problems than one very small islands politicians joke.
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Maybe now this is over and done with our States can get on with running the island which is what they are paid to do.
How many thousands of pounds of taxpayers money have been wasted debating this?
The outcome should have been decided by the general public on a phone-in or similar!
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The thing is most of us have made jokes about the Irish or the Italians or whomever but that doesnt actually mean you are racist per se.
I think its overplayed now so much so we have positive discrimination which clearly is state sanctioned racism.
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You couldn’t make it up, but it’s true: here’s the link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/feb/03/carol-thatcher-faces-ban-over-golliwog-remark
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/feb/03/carol-thatcher-faces-ban-over-golliwog-remark
It would seem that the term in question is also unacceptable when used by testicle eating dragon spawn Carol Thatcher.
Perhaps Bernard could drop her a line and give some advice on avoiding the boot from The One Show.
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Who actually cares now anyway, because the rest of us Guernsey folk are so nice to everyone else!!!! (yeah right)
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“With you, and every other member of society. The utterly revolting piety”
Ed Smith, Piety?
Basic standards. If you do have children then their only hope is that they are informed by others than yourself. You who wish to excuse REVOLTING racism, terrible judgement and self-importance. Judging from your input to this thread, it is plain to see why you support the DCM.
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Thatcher sacked!!
As if we didn’t already know, this shows that we have a majority of our deputies who are so out of touch that a vote of no confidence for the whole of the assembly would not be amiss.
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So,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7868401.stm
An off-camera remark gets Thatcher barred from the BBC, while an on-camera remark gets Flouquet endorsed by the States…..Wonderful!
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Is this the “Guernsey way”? no wonder the island is lost and not showing any real signs of finding its way.
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Carol Thatchers ‘joke’ was:-
a) not broadcast
b) was not told at a media briefing
She:-
c) is not a politician
b) was not representing the government
c) does not meet other politicians on any government business
d) has not said she likes jokes like that
Yet in Guernsey, servant of the public, Deputy Flouquet, get a ‘slap on the wrist’ and support from the Chief Minister. You couldn’t make it up!
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Ah the politics of England. Charles refers to one of his friends as ‘sooty’ before the vote of no confidence and Bernad survives. We’ll never know, but I would wager that had the vote been tomorrow he would be out of a job.
The sad thing is that our ‘government’s’ principles are lead by either the Daily Mail or the Independent, depending on what side of the fence you sit.
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Wrong Flying Scot – only barred from the One Show.
Oh, and Devils Advocate – who broadcast the Flouquet story?
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@Bryn
Ah yes, because I don’t jump on your reactionary bandwagon my children are guaranteed to become rope-swinging clan members…. your logic is impeccible.
Can’t help but feel that your efforts would be better focussed on the huge amounts of real, brutal, disgusting racism that actually take place outside of Guernsey. Fancy a stint clearing up an African bloodbath? Maybe a little light duty after some eastern-european ethnic cleansing? Surely someone with such passion and clarity on the subject could do wonders in those circumstances, and there are plenty of organisations that would welcome your support with open arms.
If that’s too much to stomach then maybe you could look closer to home at how you live your life, the clothes you buy, the food you eat, etc. Own a pair of nice, branded trainers? Think there isn’t someone in an western office somewhere working out exactly how much they can abuse foreign labor to provide you with those cheap chinese exports? Smoke? Drink coffee? Any of the brands you buy based in uk/usa but with production / manufacturing in far-flung climes? Do you think they’re innocent of exploitation?
All of the above are far worse examples of racism or race-related exploitation with real impact on the quality of peoples lives, not some stupid remark that never reaches the ears of those it offends. They just happen to be indirect and somewhat inconvenient so you’re less likely to do something about them. Far better to join the BF crusade, after all it’s obviously a worthy cause and right up there in the race injustices league table.
Of course the problem with taking the moral high ground is you’re never quite as squeaky clean as the image you present. I’m not saying BF or anyone else here is either, but pound to a penny there’s a direct or indirect racist skeleton in just about everyone’s closet. Those only difference is no one’s attempting to destroy your career by digging up yours.
I’m glad BF made an apology, I’m even more glad the majority recognised the sincerity of it, and I’m completely convinced he’s not going to do it again. That’s enough for me, but don’t let that stop your crusade, you’ve obviously much important work ahead of you.
Signing off.
Ed.
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“who broadcast the Flouquet story?”
The gathered media, cameras rolling, there to listen to to a member of our government spout racist remarks whilst getting paid by the tax payer for the privilige. Do keep up.
Has BF re-paid this money and all the consequent taxpayers money used via the use of states time, CoCP hearings etc? Now that may just be some acknowledgement of his ‘contrition’.
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Bill – It did not have to be broadcast to be wrong – hence the situation of Carol Thatcher.
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Bill – can’t see the wood for the trees? Thatcher has lost work because of a racist remark made in private. Flouquet has kept his job despite a racist remark made in public. Which I infer you support…..
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Ed Smith
I think you’ll find that most people that are astonished at the kid gloves treatment Flouquet got also have strong opinions on the examples you stated. It’s just that those examples are far away from our spheres of influence – no matter how many petitions one signs, or letters to the UK Prime Minister, or rallies attended.
This act was a perpetuation of the muck that underlines our so called civilised society and when one is in a local position to cast aspersions on this then every effort should be made to do so.
What you are inferring is a do-nothing approach and hope that others make your children’s future free from prejudice and violence.
Calling black people golliwogs is now unacceptable. It is your type of intellectualising that damages society more than the illiterate apologists that don’t understand anything.
I’m not questioning Flouquet’s ‘sincerity’ (what’s his track record?), but rather the system that allows oafish ignorance a chance to be lauded as successful politicking. A lack of sensitivity, as Trott is showing with the Landsbanki situation, is not endearing. Flouquet and Trott may garner support from dyed-in-the-wool tabloidese-repeaters but the upcoming generations are far more savvy about world affairs.
Should parents of the savvy have to make excuses for those that make decisions that affect all our futures? Who’s to say that Flouquet as PS Minister would reject an offer because of his (denied) racist lapses?
It’s a question of trust and competence. If you’re happy then fine, but the facts don’t tie up with your view.
To take your argument further, the finance industry in certain forms, especially those that encourage opacity, do more for social disorder than any prejudice. All round bad guy Viktor Bout, the arms facilitator, had/has associates in the CI that helped with the movement with funds to get the guns into the child armies of Africa. Presumably, which ever companiesthat were incorporated here are dissolved, and the Guernsey Government got due interest and minimal taxes from their enterprises, so nothing to see here?
Flouquet is damaged goods. That does not inspire confidence. More people will be turned off from the political process becasue of his utter ham-fistedness. Why do you have a problem with that?
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I am sure you notice when one places a comment on the message board the message is not posted until it goes through moderation. It would be fair to assume that the purpose of this moderation is to ensure no improper comments are posted ie I am sure that you could not get a racist comment on to this message board, in fact I imagine that if someone had tried to post the original “joke” by Bernard “Manning” Floquet before it became a hot topic, it would not have been posted. Interesting that such reasonable standards of the press and their vetting and acceptability process is of a higher standard than government…!
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Mr Ed,
You know nothing of my history of fighting racism. I assure you, It is obviously longer than your spelling lessons at school, (impeccible). I do what I can, when I can, whereas you defend it.
Reactionary? I refer you once again to basic standards.
“Of course the problem with taking the moral high ground is you’re never quite as squeaky clean as the image you present. I’m not saying BF or anyone else here is either, but pound to a penny there’s a direct or indirect racist skeleton in just about everyone’s closet. Those only difference is no one’s attempting to destroy your career by digging up yours”
Slander, factually incorrect and proof once again that your sweeping generalisations show you for the ignoramus you are.
Want another one of your sweeping incoorect generalisations?
“With you, and every other member of society. The utterly revolting piety of the baying mob displayed throughout this issue is the kind of ’standard’”
Has it ever (probably never) occurred to you that it is the right of people to ‘react’ against filthy racism, lack of accountability, appalling judgement and crass behaviour?
You are full of bluster, nonsense and generalisations.
An Ideal apologist.
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Some of the comments posted on this thread about other posters are really nasty.
Some posters are demonstrating behaviours which are just as unacceptable as I believe Bernie’s was….
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