Firefighter shortage grounds Flybe flights
Monday 2nd February 2009, 2:29PM GMT.
FLYBE flights were cancelled from 9.30am yesterday due to a shortage of firefighters.
It was the only airline affected as its Dash 8 aircraft require a higher level of cover than those of other airlines.
There were frustrated passengers here and at Southampton, Birmingham, Gatwick and Exeter.
Among those stranded was presenter Clive Anderson, who had been in the island to talk to the Men of the Trees.
‘Oh well, I had nothing better to do than go from gate to gate in an airport being told to go to other gates,’ he said.
The early flights operated as normal as there were enough firefighters to provide cover, said airport director Colin Le Ray, but then one was taken ill.
An agreement between the States and the firefighters which had been in place since last summer’s pay dispute expired on Saturday. ‘Despite a number of meetings and discussions over recent weeks, no alternative scheme has been agreed between the relevant parties,’ said Mr Le Ray, in a handout to all passengers.
- FLYBE intends to make a claim against the States for the cost of putting up its passengers overnight because of the disruption caused by the lack of firefighter cover. In a statement it said that it reacted with incredulity at the latest act of gross incompetence to hit the travelling public of Guernsey.
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And I wonder who Flybe are going to make a claim against today for all the cancelled flights….?
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it was an absolute disgrace but thankfully for me I was on Blue Islands to the UK. Questions
1.How long would it have taken to fly someone from UK or Jersey? or would unions not allow that!
2. Why do we have 2 fire services on such a small island. Here’s an idea..Can they not combine and then no issue for cover?
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David
Seems they are going to have a pop at the States, despite this comment “The early flights operated as normal as there were enough firefighters to provide cover, said airport director Colin Le Ray, but then one was taken ill”
Force Majeure, Flybe; so fly off.
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I also would like to issue a statement that says I “reacted with incredulity at the latest act of gross incompetence to hit the travelling public of Guernsey” when, this morning, I tried to ring the Flybe customer services call centre to check if my flight would be leaving only to find that the number that Flybe promote on their website actually rings out as unobtainable……(UK airports suggested that you check with your airline before setting off to the airport as many flights were being cancelled and the Police were urging people not to travel by road)…if you google their call centre you get a completely different number…that one does appear to exist but it was permanently engaged.
The irony is that my afternoon flight home from Birmingham does appear to have landed…trouble is, I’m not on it as I couldn’t verify it’s status with a living person at Flybe!
In the end I re-booked my return flight on line, and got whacked with an alteration fee plus a surcharge for the privilege of coming home later.
I’m afraid Flybe needs to reconsider it’s “customer service”, as good as the on line system is it cannot replace a bit of human intervention when things go awry and you need a bit of guidance.
Had someone been able to confirm that my flight was going to leave then I would have found away of getting to the airport.
Maybe Flybe need to remove the forest from their eye before attempting to remove the splinter from someone else’s?
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Although I never use Flybe as I think they are a ‘rip off’, I think they are well within their rights to make a claim. Isn’t it about time the States sorted out these firefighters with their ‘hard done by’ attitudes. If they worked for a normal company they would all have had the sack months ago, but unfortunately those do-gooders in the unions prevent it. They don’t know how cushy the have it as Airport fireman – although they are probably all good card players and champions of the pool table !!
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Yet again Flybe are trying to blame everyone but themselves, when Aurigny have aircraft out of action for whatever reason they charter other aircraft (at great expense) to make sure the passengers are happy, what do Flybe do they cancell all there flights and leave the passengers stranded.I think they should change there name to the more realistic FLY MAY BE.
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I’m surprised they couldn’t pick up the phone and offer a shift to the fire fighters that work out of Arsenal.
It is in the interests of the Island to have replacements ready to step up to the plate when needed.
It may even be prudent to train existing airport workers so that a repeat of this is avoided.
I’m sure many baggage handlers would enjoy a bit more variety in their work.
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Airport Firefighters are specially trained and have to know local procedures, also be used to working within the local team so flying one over would have been a non-starter. As for claiming against Guernsey, I’m surprised they didn’t just tell all the passengers it was due to safety so they wouldn’t have to put them up.
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The Firefighters know exactly how many staff they need to enable FlyBe flights to operate.
I doubt it is coincidence that the pay dispute agreement they had with the States ended on Saturday, and then one of their staff just happens to go home ill, and (I am guessing) that all the other staff they rang asking if they could cover were “unavailable” – thus meaning FlyBe couldn’t operate. I seriously can’t believe that not a single member of off-duty fire staff were able to come into work and cover (despite probably being on double pay overtime etc).
It’s known as “work to rule” and is also being done by Jersey Ambulance Service at the moment. No overtime, no extra shifts, no covering for colleagues when they are sick etc etc. I expect that there may be other airport firefighters who suddenly become ill in the next few weeks and the same thing could happen again.
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Its a joke,Our island is a laughing stock.I Bet if any of the firefighters familys were traveling on those flights then they would have found sufficient cover.Cauldnt they just borrow a fireman from the arsenal to sit and watch the plains all day!
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this has been going on for 2 years now, give them the on call payment that everyone else gets, how would the states members or prsc like to have to work all their days off and double shifts, without some kind of payment, good will has gone!……
And no i am not a firefighter.
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The firefighters at the Arsenal COULD be trained and visa versa and my view is we should only have 1 combined service.
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the airport fire service are trained for what they know not for what they do. i would rather have them sitting on their backsides all day than having them doing what they are trained to do which is dealing with an aircrft accident. and paul you could not have airport firemen leaving the airport if there was a fire in the area as there would be no cover for flights, and no i’m not a fire fighter either
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I am getting fed up of these ‘hard done by’ airport firemen… I know a few regular firefighters & they actually have to work for their money!!
Yes we do need them & they are highly trained to deal with potential disasters, but how many of them can say they have had a hard days work in the last 10 years?! Its a joke!!
I know 1 guy that was an airport fireman but left as he found it too boring – he was sat around all day watching DVD’s, playing pool & cards & spending most of the time on a games console…
Come on – do you really need so much more money to sit around ‘incase something happens’??…
How dare they hold the INNOCENT public to ransom… its not the public that makes the decision – we just pay the wages, so please dont be so selfish & punish the people that actually pay you….
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All this Flybe bashing that goes on is just not logical. Can you imagine a Guernsey without a Flybe service, Aurigny ticket prices would go up as competition reduces to practically non-existent, all the moaners would then be whinging that it costs even more to get off this island.
With regard to wet leasing an alternative aircraft as Aurigny do, this is extremely costly and for an airline such as Flybe who will have their own crews and aircraft available on standby why should they have to go and find a smaller aircraft. Aurigny have far fewer options available to them when an ATR is U/S, ie they have to lease in another aircraft. If Flybe were to give in and lease a smaller aircraft who do you think would pay for it, the cost would be covered by increasing fares to Guernsey passengers.
This is solely the fault of the States and the Unions who are doing a lot of damage to this island.
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It is not purely on the shoulders of the airport firefighters by any means! they require at least 2 people extra to bring them up to full strength and with 2 at training school as well they are 4 men down before you even consider holiday and sickness! if the states payed them what their jersy counterparts get they would have a little less of an issue recruiting. as for sitting around all day, yes there are times when there isn’t much to do but would you rather have planes dropping out the sky every 5 minutes so they are kept a bit busier? I think not!
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If the states had a duty to provide the required number of fire fighters then Flybe definitely has a case.
This was a completely foreseeable occurrance.
There were several failed meetings regarding the dispute over the last weeks. As usual the states have too many meetings and not enough results. Maybe they need to have some in-training on “successful negotiations”.
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I hope that Flybe bill the states for their shameful dealing of a situation that should have been resolved a long time a go. If they are not careful you will lose all you extra routes that you have gained though flybe and where will you be then? Moaning about the lack of destinations???!!!
I think the fire fighters should hang there heads in shame, your just making the island the laughing stock of the british iles. You signed up for the job, so do it.
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John,
How many firefighters on call at the Arsenal? If we combined the services but of course always kept the minimum at the airport the savings would be immense, less boring, maybe pay them more and given them more variety to do. We are a Small Island therefore I see no point in having 2 Completely seperate services and training both sets to do the others jobs, covering for each other makes complete sense.
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Anyone with an IQ marginally above room temperature should have forseen this coming. Red Ron, one firefighter down and closing the aiport as a bargaining tool. Call me cynical……
This island is becoming ungovernable.
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The whole situation makes me laugh. It’s times like these the airport firemen need public support, but I don’t think they’ve done themselves any favours at all.
Ron Le Cras was quoted in today’s press as saying that the lack of cover was not down to sickness at all! Which excuse was it then? If it was not down to sickness and purely that ‘there are just not enough firemen’ then is it just pure coincidence that there have been enough firemen to provide cover over the last two years or however long this dispute as been running? Maybe it was a complete coincidence that there was suddenly ‘insufficient cover’ the day after their agreement ran out! I don’t think so.
As stated in previous posts, this looks very much like a ‘work to rule’ regardless of what Ron Le Cras would state in the press or have us believe.
As also inferred in previous posts, if you want the public (purse) to support you in your dispute, then remember the saying – don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
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Giles,
Yes the firefighters signed up for the job, the issue is not doing the job, just having an on call payment to work their days off. At the moment they are expected to do so. How would you like it if you were expected to work both your days off at the ring of the phone. the situation has been going on for long enough all on good will, recruitment is an issue, all the time the manning levels are down, the new recruites as well as experienced staff have to go away to train, throw in sickness,(You ask any office how many staff they have had off in the past couple of months.)And rememember these lads have to meet rigourous fitness standards and you can see how difficult is is to meet the fire catagory needed.All they are asking is to be fairly recompensed for having to be available at the the drop of a hat. they cannot plan anything unless the are actually on leave, so see how you or any other worker would put up with it.
I myself am having to put up with the complete incompetence of the prsc in dealing with my employment issue and my unit is being shafted by them from every direction. So it may not be just the afs working to rule soon!!
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Well it seems that the airport fire service is undermanned and unable to recruit enough fire fighters (according to the media today). It was nothing to do with someone going off sick on shift. There were not enough to cover the shift in the first place.
OK, maybe they do not have to deal with aviation incidents on a regular basis but I, for one, am glad for that. They do have to do a lot of training though to ensure they keep their skills up. If i was on a plane that got into difficulties i would want the full quota of staff on duty and well trained professionals.
As for the Arsenal fire fighters working so much harder – do me a favour! They are just as likely to have boring shifts – their main job is cutting the rooves off cars that have crashed – again i thank God that we do not have many serious fires. They all get beds to sleep in at night – how often do they have to get out of them. Do i begrudge them that they are paid for sleeping – no, not at all. If i should be involved in a fire i would far rather they be able to respond immediately than be called in.
There are completely different skills needed though – a bit like asking the police to cover the customs. If the airport fire fighters are not receiving on-call pay then it is about time the States did something about it. Other public sector workers get on-call pay and are never called in!
I do not believe they are holding the island to ransom – they have been in talks and they just get nowhere. Now they are working to rule , i.e. to their job description. How many of us would like to be on permanent call every day and not being able to go out, have a drink, leave the island etc …… just in case we were needed. What they need is a formal on-call system so that the shifts are shared and covered.
And before anyone asks, no i am not a fire fighters or married to one. I did think of something though – i the UK they have retained/volunteer fire fighters – could we not have them here?
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In responce to dans views i agree the island would be worse off if Flybe were to pull out as we do need more than one operator to keep the costs down, however your comments about Flybe not wet leasing an alternate aircraft are completely biased, Aurigny also have Crew and aircraft available as back up but have still chartered aircraft both smaller and larger to help out on numerous occasions, Flybe need to start putting the passengers first and stop blaming everyone else for there problems.
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Maybe it will end with a tribunal – don’t hold out much hope for the PSRC with their recent record.
Another costly muck-up that could be solved by having proper, impartial, negotiations for the public sector when it comes to pay and T&C.
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Interesting point Matt, but why should they wet lease in alternative aircraft when the problem is not their own doing. Why should Flybe blame themselves for this, they are in no way at fault!! This is a problem that has been caused by the States and the Unions/Firefighters not because they are running older and reasonably unreliable aircraft. Aurigny do lease in from third partys and this will be a drain on their balance sheet and no doubt a contributor to the fact they are making large losses. I stand by Flybe not leasing in a smaller aircraft as the costs of this will have to be covered from somewhere else, either invoicing the States and therefore the tax payer, or increasing subsequent fares.
The Firefighters are not getting the support they deserve due to the way they have decided to tackle the problem. I would have thought the majority of the island will support their calls for “fair wages” and they should get pay and conditions similar to their counterparts in Jersey, however the way they are behaving is childish.
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They say – if we pay the Guernsey Airport brigade the same as Jersey, then all the other States workers will demand and get a similar rise and we will then have to pay more taxes and charges to pay them and we shall have to charge more and the cost of living will go up …… sounds familiar.
However if you cannot persuade a man or woman to do a job for a certain amount then you should be able to pay more without everybody else jumping on the bandwagon.
Perhaps the only answer will be to sell off the service to private enterprise and pay the extra!
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To be honest I don’t really care whether it is Flybe, the States of Guernsey or the firefighters who are to blame for this debacle. All I know is that my wife relies on regular flights to the UK so she can get cancer treatment at Southampton General Hospital. There are surpring number of other people in a similar position.
When you live on a small island effective air links are not just about pay deals or company profits, they can – literally – be a matter of life or death.
Will all parties to this dispute please get it sorted as oon as possible.
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Dan thinks the firefighters should be trying to gain public support by doing their job and stating their case. This hasn’t worked for the last 2 years so why should it work now? They have to make a stand and gave the PSRC 6 months to sort out their on-call payments – and they did nothing.
I have sympathy with people like CD who need to get to the UK for medical treatment – although Aurigny were not cancelling their flights as they run smaller aircraft. I have spoken to a fireman recently who said that in an emergency i.e. having to open the airport at night to fly a seriously patient to UK, they would cover immediately – even on their days off.
The PSRC is a shambles and the senior civil servants in charge are getting money for old rope. The whole debacle could have been prevented if they had done their job properly.
The firemen need our support – they are entitled to their days off like everyone else. Pilots are not expected to be working all the hours – they have strict guidelines on resting between flying times – which is why a lot of flights go ‘technical’….. it is because the crew are sick and there is no one to cover them! Do we hear the public berating them?
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A sobering comment CD, if we needed reminding of the vital link that the airport provides that is just it. I hope your wife and your family do not get caught up in this, all the best for 2009.
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“so she can get cancer treatment at Southampton General Hospital. There are surpring number of other people in a similar position.”
Sobering indeed. And indicative of the power a few militant uniforms and union bosses have over the island.
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Comments have been made on this thread about how little action the airport fireman get (obviously a good thing !), and that they have to occupy themselves by playing pool, watching DVDs while on duty to pass the time. Another poster commented that staff turnover was very high.
Is it possible that the high staff turnover is attributable to sheer boredom rather than to pay and other conditions ?
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Perhaps the staff need to be given other jobs to do if they really are spending their days bored with nothing to do? I thought they did have to do other jobs – safety checks, on the job training and regular inspections of the runway etc. Has anyone ever asked them what thenreal problems are? There was an article on the radio a few months ago where Jim Cathcart from Radio Guernsey spend a few hours with them and he seemed to give the impression they were busy with training etc. I can think of lots of boring jobs (the security officers at the airport who spend all day moving on people who have come to collect passengers and who dare to park for more than 3 seconds outside the airport springs to mind)!
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Merlin, implying we should book on Aurigny as they didn’t cancel flights at the weekend is a poor argument as if the airport closes completely, then there will be no aircraft movement at all.
I am not against the request for fair pay and conditions, but I think they should take a bit more thought as to their actions. It’s all very well providing cover for emergencies, but as has been highlighted by CD what about non-emergency situations which are ultimately as serious.
As to your comment “which is why a lot of flights go ‘technical’….. it is because the crew are sick and there is no one to cover them!” can you back this up with evidence? I know for a fact that in the case of one airline over here the standby crews very very rarely get called in, therefore the aircraft is on the ground because it has a technical fault which requires repairing.
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Going ‘tech’ can also mean ‘we haven’t got enough passengers to justify the flight, let’s stay here’
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Part of the reason the airport firefighters are so hacked off at being asked to cover sickness is because so many of them have extra part time work and having to work overtime interferes with this.
They don’t realise how lucky they are having an easy and very secure regular income job with plenty of time off and a cracking pension at the end of it.
If,as rumour has it they are asking for over five grand a year payrise (at a cost to us taxpayers well in excess of £150k per annum for 30 of them) surely it would make sense to recruit and train a couple extra to cover sickness/holidays?
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I pay my taxes every month and this is what I get?
Incompetence by the States of Guernsey and sheer greed from the fire service.
Absolute disgrace. Shame on you all.
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Kevin
I heard virtually the same rumour today about the airport fireman having other jobs. In fact what I heard was that many of them have other fulltime jobs, not secondary parttime jobs. Please tell me its not true. The public has a right to know. I would want to know exactly how many of them have other jobs of any type which may be affecting their availability to change their working conditions ! If there is any truth at all in this then it puts a totally different complexion on the validity of any claim that they may have for more money.
What a mess.
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Airport Firemen have every right to refuse to work on their days off if the agreement to do so has lapsed. It is not greed, it is not bully boy tactics, it is their democratic right just as they have a right to a part time job is, or don’t they have any rights?.
Where are all those who oppose Sunday opening because the shop workers will have work on their day off, do the Airport Firemen not deserve the same consideration?.
This situation of a staff shortage has arisen because airport firefighting is a very specialised job which requires special training, very expensive training. While the States are obligated to pay for that training because they need these fireman,they are not obligated to pay the firemen the proper rate for the job, so they don’t.
On an Island with such a boyant economy is it surprising that that these young men leave to get better wages elsewhere. After all to complete the training they have to be highly motivated and itelligent. Will they ever be able to afford their own home on States wages?.
Why does nobody question the tens of thousands of pounds spent by the States on training these men, only for them to leave because of the low pay.
Flybe have every right to sue the States as this is a problem that they are responsible for.
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“On an Island with such a boyant economy”
Funny. You just don’t get it do you?
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Pete
We, the taxpayers, have paid for these airport firemen to be trained. I have absolutely no problem with them having second or third jobs, as long as its clear where their priorities lie. Their second jobs may well be as fishermen or plumbers or taxi drivers etc., none of which required taxpayer-funded training and none of which are so linked to life and death issues as airport crashes/fires.
If these guys are resisting revised working conditions because its affecting their second or third jobs then that I’m sorry but I would not have any sympathy for them whatsoever.
That’s why I hope that its not true.
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dont you get it???????? these guys have second jobs because they cant afford to live on airport fire service wages! they are highly trained individuals that make up disciplined crews providing cover for possible disasters,and the’re classed as manual workers!!!!!!!i am not a fireman but a friend is and im ex proud to know him.i earn £40’000-50’000 p.a as a electrician,how am i contributing to our community? i’m not. these men need our support,the psrc and the states are a joke, failed business men are running our island.
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While I agree that the airport fire crew should be better paid, I do not see how you can go into such a job knowing that the wages are maybe not that great and therefore find yourself some secondary employment that jeopardises your primary responsibility.
If the States are going to issue employment contracts that allow secondary employment then they are going to be ‘played’ if the wage doesn’t match the responsibility of the job.
Like many people who have commented, I find the situation quite incredible.
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Paul,
Thousands of Public Service and lower paid private sector employees manage on far less than £27k a year — most of these people don’t have the spare time to get extra jobs or the opportunity to earn overtime.
Why should the airport fireman be that much better off than other PSD employees?
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Paul sums it up extremely well and if anyone is willing to investigate the problem they should do so further by getting their facts straight. I think you will find that if the firefighters did not have a case then the states would not of sanctioned an independant report costing the tax payers many thousands of pounds to make that decision for them. Again an acceptance of this was the fact that they paid them a temporary on call system to gaurentee cover whilst this was being carried out. (another admission in itself that there is no obligation for a firefighter to be on call as if they were they would of been forced onto a call out rota and provided with bleepers instead of supplying their own personal mobiles!) These men do need our support and is it not a fact that a guilty person is generally the first one to point the finger and apportion the blame on the innocent. These political jokes who we pay far to much to destroy our island should step back and look at themselves very closely instead of airing their dirty laundry in public. They are the ones responsible solely for this huge inconvenience and in turn compromising the main artery in and out of the Island not to mention passenger safety and jeopardising people recieving valuble medical treatment off island! Utterly disgusting and well done firefighters for standing up to these failed business men/ no-bodies!!!!
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Oh yes I agree! Lucky Airport Firemen. They get to work twice as many hours to subsidise a low wage (£21,500p.a. basic?) and as a little bonus they get to spend even more time away from their families.
They get one full weekend off every six weeks (about 8 or 9 a year) so can you blame them for not wanting to come in and work even more whether they get double time for it or whatever. A lot of them have partners who also have to work so weekends are the only family time they really get to spend together. I know it is not only weekends that they need to work overtime but that tends to be the time when most people, whatever their job, get to have quality time with their family and friends. Much as it is an inconvenience to have flights cancelled and yes I would be gutted if I was to be affected by it and miss my holiday or some other event I don’t blame the Firefighters one bit as negotiating anything with the Stated is like talking to a brick wall. The States are stubborn, don’t listen or care and would rather waste money on other arrangements to cover the shortage than appear to ‘give in’ to them. It is not as if these ‘intelligent’ States members haven’t had enough time to try and sort something out.
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I think the real issue here is that the firemen are not refusing to come in for their shifts – just refusing to come in on their days off. They are asking for on-call pay so that there is a set rota to cover shifts when they are short of firemen on a shift – something completely different. All other staff in public sector get paid for being on-call – if the firemen are short of staff and cannot fill the quota per shift then something has to be done long term. You can rely on goodwill for so long and they have been doing it for 2.5 years …….. no one can say they have not given the PSRC enough time to come up with solution.
Prior to last weekend they had a a 6 month agreement and had agreed to be available at the call of a last minute ‘phone-call – even when they may already have made other plans. This ran out last weekend and they therefore decided that they would not remain on-call on their days off. The States have had 6 months to deal with this – why haven’t they done anything. They have now passed on the dispute to a third party – again! The PSRC do not seem to have the skills or knowledge to negotiate anything anymore!
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I cannot believe that the firemen are sick again today. Never mind having the states over a barrel, they are using the Guernsey public as a blackmail tool.
25% pay rise? They’re having a laugh. They’ve got to have the easiest job in Guernsey. They join the job knowing the pay structure. At the moment, most people in the private sector are having salaries held and bonuses withdrawn. They have seen how weak willed the PSRC is in giving States general workers an above inflation rise and have decided to have a crack themselves.
If anyone in public sector deserves 25% it’s the nurses. You don’t see them going on strike, they do not hold the Island to ransom and yet they work far harder than those firemen who answer how many shouts a year????
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All of these comments seem to have a general trend. It looks like there is recognition that the firefighters do not get paid enough for the job that they are trained to do, and that they should be allowed to do a second job to supplement their income provided that it does not affect their primary contract with the States. Is that fair comment ?
If so, then let’s look at some numbers.
Assume that a firefighter currently get a basic of around £21k a year, and makes another £20k a year from being an electrician, plumber etc. If it’s accepted that £21k isn’t enough and should be £30k, nearly a 50% increase, I suspect there are many who would say that the firefighters then don’t need or shouldn’t be allowed a second employment income. But even if the firefighters were to be paid £35k a year for their current job, including allowances for providing standby cover, without being allowed to have a secondary job, there wouldn’t be many takers as most of them are currently earning far more than £35k a year.
In other words, how much does the States have to pay them to ensure that they are 100% focused on their job as firefighters ? £50k a year maybe ? That clearly isn’t going to happen.
The only way to solve this is to pay the firefighters a better basic wage plus a premium for standby cover, and to expressly allow them to have a secondary income from a job which will not affect their ability to be on standby. Those secondary jobs could have to be approved (in nature) by the States as primary employer to ensure that they are of a nature which ensures immediate availability on demand. The States could insist on the employment with a secondary employer to include a contractual clause so that the secondary employer undertakes to immediately release the employee to carry out his firefighting standby duties. Obviously the self-employed could easily commit to this.
Everything would then be entirely open and above board, the airport cover is guaranteed to be maintained and the firefighters can openly earn a secondary income with the full knowledge and approval of the States as employer. The States also end up paying a salary which is commensurate with the job instead of having to pay them enough to also replace their current secondary income, which is clearly not feasible.
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Are the airport firemen up to the job seeing as they seem to suffer a disportionate amount of sickness? When I think about my place of work, there is seldom any sickness – maybe just 1 or 2 days a year per person. The firemen are a disgrace to this island, they knew what the pay was before they took on the job and they are free like the rest of us to move jobs if they don’t like the pay and conditions. They obviously don’t care about the travelling public who pay their wages or the damage caused to the island as a whole. In the current climate they are lucky to have jobs. There many people in the UK who would dearly love to have a secure job such as they have. I am not a great fan of Flybe however I fully support Flybe on this. They went to the trouble of chartering an Aer Arann ATR-72 this weekend for the sole purpose of operating flights to/from Guernsey. Isn’t it convenient that the sickness has increased still further this weekend to the point where cover is down to CAT 4 resulting in ATRs being unable to operate. Maybe next weekend Flybe will charter a fleet of Jetstreams – if that happens watch out for even more sickness! Sack the lot of them I say.
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This dispute is not about having to do the overtime, if extra men were trained up and made available do you really think the firefighters would be prepared to lose the overtime earnings?
It is nothing more than an excuse to try and screw more cash out of the PSD and the taxpayer.
Isn’t it rather strange that they could manage to find the sickness cover for a six month period after receiving a payment of £1000 yet as soon as that agreement expires there is not enough available to work?
Assuming the paymasters give in and agree to an extortionate £6000 a year payrise (or even part of it) they should be made to sign a proper watertight contract which guarantees no repeat of this disruption.
These firefighters are supposed to be professionals, its time they started to behave like it, causing problems for the people that pay their wages won’t do them any favours.
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What with sewage being pumped into the sea.
No banking protection laws.
Corruption and violent racist government officials.
Now a lifeline link threatened at a rapidly crumbling airport, Guernsey is becoming a third world society.
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“dont you get it???????? these guys have second jobs because they cant afford to live on airport fire service wages!”
Rubbish. These men were, in the main, tradesmen before they joined the service. Fully intending to have two jobs when they joined. To suggest they became tradesmen after joining the service is perverse. They knew what they were getting in to when they joined. Zero sympathy for bullies Im afraid.
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kevin,
because their job decription dosnt entail them running into a burning tube to face death,toxic gases/flames and intense heat!! not to mention a possibility these men might not be returnig home to wife and kids………
sound a bit melodramatic???
stop and try imagine what a plane fire/crash looks like,its beyond my imagination.
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Here’s a novel (but not new) concept. How about we prune the civil & public service of all non-essential jobs (starting with senior positions) so we can afford to pay for essential services. While we’re at it, get shot of the over-generous pension arrangements and replace with something more affordable.
Who knows, the island may afford a couple of extra airport firemen too…
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Funny I don’t get what Jackie?. My post stated my position and explained why. Your post, well is that the best you can do?.
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All those critics consider this scenario – you’ve just landed in Guernsey, your plane skids off the runway and the undercarriage collapses. The engine suddenly catches fire and the flames are quickly spreading along the wing to where you are struggling with your seatbelt.
Now ask yourself how much you would pay to ensure there are people out there that will put the fire out. Insurance premiums go up!
PS I’m not an airport fireman but I am a nervous flier
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What a hec of a lot of rubbish has been written. Mostly by people who haven’t the faintest idea about what they are talking about. The Guernsey firefighters are not paid for what they do but for what they may have to do. How many people out there would want to have to do their job? Yes it all sounds so “cushy” but it wouldn’t be in an emergency.
Some of you should stop and think.
What most of you are worried about is whether you catch your flight or not. It’s all about a fair go and they deserve it.
Come on you States and sort it out.
Stop nit picking and realise what the firefighters are all about.
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I have just listened to the Radio Guernsey ‘phone-in – a proportion of which was about the fire fighter cover (or lack of) at the airport.
What i think people are completely forgetting is these fire fighters are not on strike – they are just refusing to work on their rostered days off or their annual leave. They are very understaffed and are at the end of their tether. Their training (which has to be updated every 3 years) is very expensive and is only available off island at a recognised training centre. The money is being wasted if young firemen soon realise that they cannot earn a living wage and are expected to remain on-call whether on days off or on annual leave if they are on the island.
Compare their salaries with those of other public sector workers who need little training and hold no real responsibility i.e. admin workers. I have seen adverts in the GP recently for assistant administrators whose wage would be commensurate with that of a fireman or even higher. These boys are not asking for extortionate pay rises – they just want what other firefighters in other jurisdictions get – and this is what the consultants report recommended too! Why pay for a report if you are not going to listen and act on the recommendations? The States have dug themselves in a hole and instead of coming to an agreement are just digging themselves deeper and deeper and getting this island a bad reputation. Stop blaming the firemen and take the responsibility for which you were elected. Al Brouard and his team are obviously not trained negotiators – they pass everything on to a third party – what is this costing?
Pay the firefighters what they are worth – and stop prevaricating. We, the taxpayers, have already been paying out extortionate amounts for overtime over the years – the actual payout will not be that different.
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norman,in a nutshell you’ve cracked it,glad to see
someone can still read between the lines,and jackie,cant you see its yet again poor management and failings from our hopeless chosen leaders that have caused this mess??(ongoing for two years now)
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25% is too steep in the current economic climate. A rise to keep up with RPI is fair. On call pay is also a fair expectation.
Why do the states need a third party to manage this? (general incompetence and poor management skills could be the answer but Im hoping for a different one…….) The amount of money wasted on these issues which just seem to go around and around being discussed in meeting after meeting without anyone taking responsibility and anything being resolved is just revolting.
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The airport firefighters are holding the island to ransom.
They announce that there will be sickness over the weekend meaning that the Flybe Dash 8 cannot operate.
Flybe charter an ATR to operate the flights as a safeguard,as it is smaller and can still operate.
Lo and behold,another firefighter chips a finger nail playing pool and goes off sick,meaning that the ATR aircraft are also grounded.
I wonder what they are planning for half term next week ?
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Merlin that about sums it up.Thank you. Most of the fireman do have second jobs and believe me it is only because they want to make their way in life and try to afford to live in their own island. Not everyone wants to work in finance. Fair play to these lads, its to easy to sign on and be a drain on society. Now there may well be some people without jobs out there but why not apply. there are always plenty of vacancies and if you can meet the sringent requirements then happy days, and yes it is a fair comment to say if you dont like the pay then leave. Well that is just whats happening which is why there has been 36 people leave in the last 8 years/19 in the last 2. guess what this means? we now have an airport wage bill running over budget in excess of 240,000k. well now tax payer would it not be better to pay the recognised sum for these proffesionals in other durisdictions and ensure guarenteed fire cover with highly trained competent fit men rather than writing off 160,000k each year to allow for people leaving….. this is fact! Or how about we pay temporary cover from england at a cost far higher than whats needed and hope the problem goes away. Well it wont as it will still not guarentee cover! Or lets keep on letting the poor old public of guernsey down costing the states and the tax payer countless thousands of pounds in the process where as last weekends bill would of solved it. Last year(2008) there were approx 450extra shifts worked and this was for people who had left due to the poor conditions. Goodwill covered all this and 300 odd the year before. There is only so much you can give. These stats show that pretty much most days there would be diruptions, now listen to the airlines as well, they do not have this issue anywhere else and that is because the men are paid accordingly thus avoiding all this hassle. The firemen only want a fair wage and the chance to live a life other than having to work countless hours to stay afloat!!!
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constructive neil!!! really constructive.
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As I write this ( 9.15pm Sunday ) the firefighters are now on overtime rate with the airport still open as a direct result of their disruption earlier today…………how can this be right?????
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Can anyone confirm that the firefighters get £200 when called in and then their overtime kicks in
Spruce on the phone him had the firefighter official who phoned in completely nailed. Firefighter whineing hey got £21k. Not true, actually £28k
And the the firefighter used some lame argument about mobile phones being used? Er………was that it? Gun to the head of the island becasue you have to answer your phone? LOL
The best one was him jsutifying the price of houses as a reaso nfor a rise. House, he said, average 400k – conclusion being they deserve more. Sorry guys, you are firefighter, buy a cheaper house.
Oh and then there was the implied threat of strike action. Pathetic, selfish bullies.
As Neil points out ‘planned sicknesses’ – get UK cover in and sack them.!!
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Lets hope none of the firefighters children ever need medical treatment in Southhants. But no doubt if that were the case they’d all rally around and ensure that aircraft got there. Union men together and all that
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Jackie get a life,and learn to spell. The Airport firefighter have never refused to cover for medical flights and i am sure they would turn out free of charge to save if they had too
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I have been reluctant to comment on this issue as I don’t know the full story. What is clear however is that this stalemate cannot continue indefinitely and some decisive action is needed. From the little I know about this issue, the choice seems to be either pay the firefighters what they want now or source alternative staff from abroad who are happy to receive the going rate.
I don’t know how accurate the picture being painted of lazy fireman sitting around all day playing pool is – there may be some truth in it, there may not. What is true however is that, if a major incident did happen, these guys would be expected to risk their lives in a potentially catastrophic situation.
I also appreciate that in today’s economy the wages paid make living on Guernsey difficult without a second income (especially for people with families) but that doesn’t justify holding the island to ransom.
I do hope that something can be worked out that is in the best interests of the firefighters and the island as a whole. Nevertheless, the airport is a lifeline so a solution must be found and quick, even if it means taking tough choices – that is what politicians and civil servants are paid for.
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Spitfire I was referring to the Southampton flights generally. Many of which carry Guernsey folk visiting Southampton for long term treatments.
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Spitfire
Delicious irony in telling somebody else that they ought to learn how to spell when your own post contains several spelling/grammatical errors.
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Jackie, I can tell you that the fireman are paid double time for overtime, but as for getting £200 for turning up you are totally wrong. They currently have to make themselves available for nothing. As for medi flights and airsearch they are on call through the night, again for nothing.(I know for a fact this would always be, even if they were on strike).
Neil, if you think fireman are taking sickies then you should consult there doctors as none of them are going sick at this difficult time without a doctors note.
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MM: Would you have preferred that the airport was shut at 9pm and all the flights sent back before they landed??
From the little i know about how they work (and i am learning more as a friend of a friend is a fireman) the late shift keep working until all the planes have landed and they are the ones who are expected to be unofficially on call for mercy flights during the night. They are still covering the mercy flights (this is when a seriously ill patient needs to be sent to UK during the night or when the air sea rescue aircraft are needed).
What they do need is someone to try and explain to the public exactly what their claim is and how they think it could be sorted. They are not getting the public sympathy vote at the moment as we are all upset when our flights are delayed or cancelled (and i have had a weekend away cancelled due to this weekends problems). Half term is coming up next week and if family holidays are disrupted they will be alienated even further. I also think that the people going to london and southampton for medical treatment are the biggest losers at a time when they could do without added stress.
I think they should be entitled to on-call pay – if that is all they are asking for then the States need to negotiate an adequate deal and compromise somewhere.
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Jackie the airport firefighters are doing nothing wrong, they are fullfilling their contracts of employment.
You can throw as much hysterical abuse as you like at them but it does not alter the fact that the cancelled flights are due to the fact that the Airport does not have enough Firefighters.
It is so far below it’s complement that it cannot provide the legaly required number of firefighters when one of them goes sick.
This situation has not happened overnight it has been the norm for a number years. Who is resposible for the efficent and safe running of the airport, not the firefighters, the States.
To allow a stiuation to develope were the firefighters are so undermanned that sickness amongst them can cause such disruption is grossly irresponsible, to allow it to persist for so long is a gross dereliction of responsibility.
That is why Fybe are suing them and about time to. It’s time the States were made to face up to their responsibility’s.
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