‘Fuel duty rise would be fairer than paid parking’
Thursday 12th February 2009, 2:29PM GMT.
ANOTHER bid will be made to increase fuel duty to fund the transport strategy instead of paid parking.
The issue is up for debate at the end of the month when Environment will look to overturn a series of previous States decisions that culminated in an hourly rate being set to park in long-term spaces in Town.
Its new proposal, a flat rate annual £26 to park in any disc park in Guernsey, has provoked a hostile reaction from deputies who have lined up to suggest their own funding mechanisms.
Al Brouard will propose the fuel duty increase – something he attempted in the last Assembly at 1.2p per litre only to see it beaten by two votes. He said Environment’s proposals had all the hallmarks of bureaucracy gone mad.
‘Although to me it’s more acceptable than paid parking, there are a lot of issues with it, especially with the collection. What happens to visitors?’ said Deputy Brouard.
‘It just makes sense if we’re trying to make some link between users of the island’s roads and congestion that putting a small amount on fuel will make that link.’
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Deputy Brouard seems to be demonstrating some common sense in proposing a revenue stream without any additional costs for funding the public transport improvements.
Most posters on this subject have already suggested that the fuel duty is the best way of generating this money and possibly the fairest … We certainly don’t need more civil servants, pouring over complicated procedures and collection methods when the answer is so obvious it’s almost laughable that paid parking was raised in the first place.
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Mr Brouard you defeat me.
I do not use the Town parking so why in heavens name do you think I want to pay a subsidy for those who do?
If more duty is to be put on fuel, then so be it, but it is unjust to equate this with the paid parking issue.
Do try not to be so silly especially if you hope to be re-elected next time around.
IF YOU PARK FOR AN HOUR, YOU PAY FOR AN HOUR.
SIMPLE ISN’T IT.
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I must be missing something… if the whole point of paid parking was to deter people from taking their car into town, how does either (a) a £26 one-off annual charge, which works out at approximately 1p per hour (£26/year = 50p per week, average commuter parks around 40-50 hours per week) or (b) a further increase in fuel duty actually make people think twice about doing so?
Surely it must be cost-effective to use barriers or “pay and display” machines? If not then the hourly rate should be set at a level which would be cost-effective.
Or maybe certain deputies just don’t want to make themselves unpopular…?
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I think that it is fair to say that most Guernseymen know the colour of a shilling (even the Scot’s think we are tight) and if you use pay and display then you will have plenty of “parkers” trying to avoid the charge which means you will need plenty of wardens to police the system. The revenue you earn is eaten up by the costs you incur. Pay and display will also encourage the creative “parker” to find new and exotic locations for abandoning their vehicle in any free slot they can find…creating traffic chaos, resulting in more traffic wardens etc etc.
If public transport is a benefit to all, then all should contribute…that includes those with private car parking spaces or “out of town” workers.
Mick and Jon are right…this isn’t about paid parking it’s about subsidising public transport…call it what it is and you might get more support and the idea of a flat fee is ridiculous..if you charge me £26 a year to park then I’m entitled to use my car as often as I like…hardly an incentive to use the bus is it?
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Carts
A perfect summary of the situation … ‘ this isn’t about paid parking it’s about subsidising public transport’.
If it has to be subsidised then do it in the cheapest and easiest way possible with fuel tax.How many people remember that they are already paying 14p extra per litre when they fill up?
If more traffic wardens are required perhaps some of the civil servants who lost their jobs when motor tax was abandoned could apply.
They did lose their jobs didn’t they ????????
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Ray & Carts, i wholly agree, this goes deeper than paid parking, it is about subsidising the public transport stradegy. What the States need to decide on is the stradegy working and does it need more cash injection, if so why, is it poorly managed and a money pit or does it warrant more cash to offer a better service in order to deter private car users, if so the the logical way is to implement a fuel duty increase. BUT beware as tradesmen, importers, retailers etc will also pass on this increase to cover their increased costs.
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What we need is a comprehensive survey done of the town car park usage. Stop EVERYONE at the entrance at commuting times and ask where they are from and where they work. This will also test how a barrier would impact traffic. Do it for three months and map the results. The info could be used to target any bus route increases, to determine the impact on the non finance industry sector that people are up in arms to defend (without any facts).
It was interesting during the recent disruptive weather, when the buses weren’t operating properly, how people’s attitude to their cars changed. Suddenly people were walking from distance and car sharing, even though the weather was inclement.
It made no real sense. Surely it’s nicer to be sociable and have excercise when it’s sunny?
It proves how inessential a lot of journeys really are.
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Fast Robert
No need to test how a barrier would impact on traffic flow.Remember the tailbacks on the Albert Pier,back past Woolworths,or on the Bridge, halfway along South Side,when a little old lady is waiting for a mum to load her pushchair etc in order to take her space rather than the empty one further up, and multiply that tailback by one hundred.
Better to let them park up on North Beach and Salerie and ask the questions at the pedestrian exits ( if they’re sociable enough to answer )
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Jon
>>I must be missing something… if the whole point of paid parking was to deter people from taking their car into town<<
That’s the elephant in the room. The flaw, amongst others in the strategy is this suggestion that commuters should, effectively, be punished for going to their place of work.
It’s ridiculous, plays to the enviro ‘mentalists’, bicycle groups and the like. As has stated in a number of other posts; people in Guernsey drive – it’s what we do.
And why on earth only commuters should be punished for going to their place of work when the real issue is the stupidity of putting schools, business, retail and offices in the same square mile really needs reviewing.
Paid parking, unless punitive to the degree of unreasonability will have zero effect on commuting public. Standing outside my house, next to a pole in and F5, raining cats and dogs in the middle of November? No thanks.
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Jackie.
If your house is so close to a bus stop pole couldn’t you just sit in your car in your driveway till the bus arrives ?
While you’re at it wouldn’t it be really public spirited to let other commuters wait in the car with you ?
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Or maybe Jackie, if parking were paid for maybe some shelters could become affordable and make waiting less unbearable and so encourage more bus usage?
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Once again the public are being made to pay for past blunders by the States. The decision that the States made was at the very best questionable. Why did Island Coachways start a bus service before the idea of a subsidised service had been made public or put to the States? A bus service had not been viable for many years before they started. Who told them what?
Why should car owners who do not park in disc areas be made to pay for that folly?
As for increasing the duty on fuel. Why, when fuel is already dearer per mile in Guernsey that in the UK?
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Fuel is the only fair way but beware the rich and powerful drive large vehicles and will not like it!
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Andy “Fuel is the only fair way”
It is a fair way but not the only fair way. A subsidised public transport system is beneficial to society on the whole. Therefore I would propose raising income tax to 21 or 22 per cent. In fact I don’t know why so many various ideas for stealth taxes are being bandied about costing thousands of pounds in time and effort in order to avoid raising income tax.
What on earth is so sacrosant about 20%. Raise tax to 30% or even 40% for even higher earners and all of Guernseys problems are solved, especialy the major problem of having been too attractive to high net worth individuals that WANT the best of services but DONT WANT to pay for them. That way the only high net worth individuals attracted here are the the ones that genuinely appreciate the island for what it is, with no qualms concerning the costs involved.
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Why don’t you all wake up and smell what you are shoveling.We are all ready paying over the odds on fuel duty, boaters pay to moor their boat so why should’nt you pay to park your car?
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I don’t disagree with “user pays” but who do you think park in long stay car parks all day and who have free parking spaces provided at work?
Once again it will be those that are less well off footing the bill….and how many spaces are we talking about a few hundred perhaps…so the entire burden for the islands public transport infrastructure becomes the responsibility of a few hunderd drivers that don’t have works parking spaces but work in town…it just doesn’t seem fair to me.
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Carts
Couldn’t we just bring in legislation that rules that private land cannot be used to lease out parking spaces and make States owned spaces a taxable perk?
I don’t get why people are so precious about this. If you can afford to run a car you can afford to run a car. If one of those costs is paying for the privilege of filling up public spaces with your private vehicle then it ought to be factored in. If it tips the running cost over a budget, then drive less.
The same as anything else in life. Parking is NOT a necessity that should be free of charge, you could argue that water is so why are we paying someone for it? After all we all pay our taxes don’t we?
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As i said before we are paying over the odds on fuel duty as it is. How is this a fair means of taxation when the islands drivers as a whole, would be paying extra tax for a minority whom want to park in town if you PARK IT PAY FOR IT AND THE BIGGER IT IS THE MORE YOU PAY!Why not the boaters are having to.Why should those whom are driving for a living burning and the fuel pay for you to park!
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Colin …
The reasoning behind suggesting the fuel tax increase is that the cost to implement a parking fee would be higher than the takings and essentially end up with the tax payer in general (including people who don’t own cars) subsidising the cost. Taking the simple approach, there is one fee for utilising the transport infrastructure which includes car parks / disc zones. It is your choice to utilise the full infrastructure or not.
Anyway assuming that the goal is to deter people from parking and/or using their vehicles, perhaps the following ideas achieve it better …. although in a more direct route :
1)Remove long term public parking. And only allow residential permit holders to continue long term parking.
2)Sell the land under the remit that it is used for long term parking. The owner pays to run it and maintain the land but obviously takes any profit. The states would retain short term parking places, receive a capital injection, no maintenance costs, reduced admin / policing, reduce congestion and more people would choose to use the bus.
The only other point that I don’t think has been considered at all is the effect that paid parking in town ‘could’ have on the businesses in town. If I had to pay £1.00 to go shopping in town, I might choose to shop out of town where the shop has it’s own private car park.
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