Firefighters get another ‘sweetener’ just to work
Friday 13th February 2009, 2:30PM GMT.
FIREFIGHTERS have received extra money to guarantee cover at Guernsey Airport for three more months, it emerged yesterday.
None of the parties will say how much, or discuss an agreement announced on Tuesday between the Public Services Department and firefighters’ union Unite.
The sum, however, is thought to be £1,000 per man.
Flybe general manager, market development Ian Taylor (pictured) said his airline’s request for details had not been met and it was now pursuing the matter through legal channels.
‘We have asked for a guarantee that category-six fire cover will be available now and in the future and there has been no such undertaking,’ he said. ‘If this is a temporary agreement, in three months we could be back to where we were.’
He said the situation was seriously damaging Guernsey’s reputation on and off the island and if people lacked confidence in coming here, it was detrimental to the airline’s business.
Representatives of the firefighters, Public Services, the Public Sector Remuneration Committee and an industrial relations team were locked in talks until late on Monday aimed at resolving the dispute, which seriously disrupted Guernsey Airport on two consecutive weekends.
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What a job, go sick for a few days and you get sick pay of £ 1000 per man. I think I will get my holidays in before the 3 months are up.
Cor blimey I’ve just realised, they have now got a £ 4000 a year pay rise, that’s the way to do it eh !
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What happened to open, honest and transparent government?
Another day another fudge hidden, yet again, behind another confidentiality clause…don’t tax payers have a right to know when our money is building a social infrastructure or when it is merely lining a few pockets due to weak and inefficient “management”?
I’m seriously beginning to doubt that Guernsey can afford this government…what’s the betting that we end up with a GST over here so that our elected few can continue to spend their way out of having to make some unpopular or difficult decision?
Shame on them.
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The two sides obviously don’t see eye to eye over the way forward.
Throwing money at the issue, whilst nice for the workers, isn’t a long term solution. I’m sure the firefighters, like the travelling public, want to know where they stand.
Time for both sides to use independent, binding arbitration and finish this issue.
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Has Public Services got more money than sense, £1000.00 x 35 = £35000.00 extra on the wage bill this is public money, i thought there was a credit crunch on. I wonder what education would have done with this money not given it to staff iam sure but invested it on maintenance on schools iam sure. My children are having lessons in poorly heated porta cabins unlike some firemen in nice warm surroundings being paid to wash and polish there expensive cars.
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I reckon the airplane spott.. sorry firemen know exactly where they stand. Call in “sick” and get a grand extra to drag their poor ailing bodies into work. Bet they are all taking their lemslips now just to make sure they don’t get a cold until May 14th. Seems a great position to be standing in to me.
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All of the above that are complaining, wouldn’t be if they were on the rubbish wage fireman get! They deserve it I say especially the way they are being treated!
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An incredible state of affairs,this is blackmail in its ugliest form.Sack the lot and take ‘em on again on States terms!No backbone anywhere these days!Next demand – 1000 Quid a day or no flights!
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I am very angered by the headline of this article. The Guernsey Press is a local newspaper and I think islanders expect some neutrality, not lines that right wing tabloids would be proud of.
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The island has a working airport and guarantee of flight (barring weather and ‘technical’ problems). That is worth every penny – and no one knows how much money is involved except the firemen and the people doing the negotiating. We cannot believe all we read in the paper can we?
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In response to anon:
Yet again you continue to make purile comments about things you know nothing about. I see you have leapt onto the band wagon with great energy in your stride, reciting the same old rubbish that has been spouted for years by anyone who has a grievance with the Airport Firefighters “..they get paid to wash their cars..” “..they get paid to watch the planes…” “…I bet they are all really good pool players….” “..they watch DVDs and telly all day..”. Please change the record and find an original put down if that is the level you wish to sink to.
Would it make you slightly happier if the heating was turned off at the Airport Fire Station until this situation has been resolved, or maybe turn it off indefinitely and use the money saved on heating oil to give them a pay rise.
I am assuming you are an adult as you state you have children (albeit cold ones) so please try and grow up a bit and submit comments that are constructive, useful and based on fact and not the assumptions of bitter and jealous individuals who have nothing better to do than make malicious comments about people.
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In response to An Outsider:
Very clever comment. I see what you did there, you pretended the Airport Firefighters were plane spotters but quickly corrected yourself in a very humorous way. Comedy gold I’m sure everyone will agree.
Allow me to correct yet another misinformed individual. Not all the reductions in Airport category were due to illness. For example you would have found (if you had done your homework)that the very first day that cover fell to Cat 5, from 12.45pm until approx. 11.35pm there was nobody off sick. It was purely due to staff shortages. You will also find that a couple of hours after the six month agreement ended, Airport Firefighters were back in at work at about 1.30am to cover for a medical flight. So they were in fact dragging their ailing bodies back into work. Obviously those “lemslips” (as you incorrectly put it) work a treat.
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Merlin has summed it up nicely. DON’T believe everything you read in the papers.
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I am of the opinion that we should look at alternative management options for our airport. This opinion is not based on giving our airport away as we did with Telecoms or backing down to the high finance crooks in suits but ensuring that our airport is managed and funded so we do not have this type of action or bad press again. Equally, I am also of the opinion that blame for the current situation is down to both parties and not just the firefighters. Once again, however the press is demonising one party more then the other……….
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Ok SM – I mistyped lemsips, and I am to far away to be aware or even interested in the details you mention. The fact is, as others have noted elswhere, the whole situation is a farce and there are obviously faults on both sides. The employers should have sorted out correct cover for all planes long ago and the firefighters should not be taking advantage of the situation while claiming to be the innocent party. And the GP should be a little more impartial in its headlines.
However, when did you last hear of an airport firefighter loose, or even risk his life saving someone from a fire. Regular firefighters do it all the time. And when there is a plane crash its the regular firefighters who get stuck in saving people more than the airport guys. I have spoken to airport firefighters at a large BAA site and they said their biggest challenge is sometimes boredom. I didn’t pretend they are plane spotters, by their own admission thats what they spend most of the day doing, watching planes land and take off just in case…
Most comments posted on this site show the firefighters have little support among you folks who have the privilege of living on such a beautiful island and they would do well to take note of that.
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The airport fireservice is undermanned because the States wont pay the rate for the job. You get what you pay for in life in this case an undermanned airport fireservice.
So stop moaning and think of all the money the States have saved you.
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I love “lemslips”! however which way they are spelt -Especially when someone pays me a thousand pounds to take one.
Isnt it strange that money can prevent illness?
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Wil: I too would love to take Lemslips/Lemsips if someone were to pay me a thousand pounds, sadly nobody is. You will probably find that money isn’t actually preventing any illness but it is providing the guarantee of temporary cover for those who are ill.
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An Outsider: Typical attitude of somebody who only wants to slate people. You get presented with some facts to highlight inaccuracies in your statement, and opinion formed as a result of these inaccuracies, yet you say you are too far away to be aware or even interested, no doubt because to take note of these facts would render your comments total rubbish. Yet again I have to point out as you probably weren’t interested in the facts, that at any major aircraft incident both Airport and regular firefighters would be working just as hard at firefighting and rescuing as long as they are at the scene.
Don’t assume that every Airport Firefighter is the same as the few you have spoken to. Certainly there can be an element of boredom when you constantly train for something that is unlikely to happen but that doesn’t detract from the reality that it could happen and as recent events have shown it does.
Finally, if as you say you are too far away to be aware or even interested in the details then you probably shouldn’t be making comments about the issue at hand.
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An Outsider: From reading the drivel that you are typing there is very strong evidence that you would not even pass the entrance exam! We are not bovine or equine’s and the term “when did you ever hear of an Airport Firefighter Loose” would suggest that one had escaped their tether! Now what also comes to light is that you are probably one of these people who avoids taking out insurance policies whether it be household, vehicle or travel etc. Now that is your choice, however the Fire fighters are an insurance policy and just when you do need them as in the case of a house fire you will be most grateful that you were insured as not only does that cover your losses but it offers you invaluble assistance in saving loved ones etc. Lets not forget Firefighters are the ones running in to deal with the problem not running away and unless you have experienced emergency situations you will never appreciate the vast reality of all this! To Sum this up the guys at the town and airport are both highly trained outfits but the differences are similar to the differences in football and rugby. They both fight fires and they both use balls but thats as far as it goes. They are all paid for what they know and what they could have to do. This skill set of being trained in so many specialist areas also limits the individuals that can apply thus restricting the process of employing!!! Try it you might surprise yourself if you get in!
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Before you blame the fireman, who in my opinion are made to look bad by the press, who dislike most state departments, A heck of a lot of trouble is caused by the PSRC. If the fireman are treated in the same way as the PSE, then I am fully supportive of them. This bunch (PSRC) really need a good shake up..
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Finally, someone prepared to look outside the box and the bad press. Thanks mick and lets not forget it’s us guys who have to try and fight for cost of living every year despite everything else going up ten fold! There are a lot of average people who want to live an average life but on less than average wages and the average house price in the region of the high end of 300k it stands to reason that people are getting forced into poverty and jumping ship! PSRC and the states in general are the people accountable here and should be the ones to justify the excessive amounts of tax payers money that is being wasted on their wages to mis-represent us and in turn waste our (the taxpayers) hard earned money! Lets face it, do they know how to work to a budget or even more so make a descision? I think this is backed up fairly well by all their political *.#! ups! oh, and what about the childish un-proffessional run to the press tactics to try and drum up some support without giving out the real facts (liars)! Signs of desperation when forced to try and justify their incompetence! Would it not be interesting to see what these political jokes are paid and the ones who actually earn there money along the way by at least making the effort to attend their various meetings. What about the members who have their own businesses or careers and then get some extra pocket money to mis-represent us! Fair play to deputy Barry Brehaut in that he actually sees his role as his full time job and commits to representing us the general public! As for the Firefighters, fair play to them for being prepared to off set their low wages and utilise their spare time to try and stay afloat. How about some of you guys taking on roles as deputies in your spare time as not only will you get to earn far more than you could ever dream of earning for potentially dealing with life and death, but you would all do by far a better job just by using some common sense!
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Geoff, I like your thinking. Moo.
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I know very little of the facts of this case but I do know that generally Firemen are good blokes who can stick up for themselves in a variety of fashions.
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In Response to SM.
Bitter No! Facts yes, for any one visiting the Aero club its plain to see the line up of 4 cab pick ups and Audi’s all being washed and polished.
It would be nice for you and your collegues to come back to earth and take a look around at the economic climate. You are in a secure job with good pay and conditions, beleive me its not me who’s whinging! and as for childish well “we won’t work any overtime untill we get a payrise” sound familiar? My 8 year old throws tantrums like that!
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Steady anon – you’ll get Geoff talking to you about horses and insurance. Oh and make sure you do live in Guernsey or SM will tell you that you have no right to comment.
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In Response to Anon:
Firstly I think it is unfair to judge someone or their financial status purely by the car they drive. Yes some of my colleagues have cars I am envious of but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are wealthy or don’t need money.
I agree with you that, yes, the job is secure. Good pay and conditions, I would have to disagree.
Being expected to be on call for nothing and spend more time away from my wife and children, particularly more weekends of which I have few off, is not a good condition to me. Yes we know how many weekends off we will get in a year before we take the job and that is accepted. From a personal point of view, having no mention of overtime when taking the job or no contract tying me to overtime, I personally don’t think I am doing anything wrong by deciding to have my day off. In addition to this as I have a wife who also works full time I look after my children when I am not at work (as do many others) and nobody is going to force me to pay a childminder to look after them or force me to pay a childminder to be on call just in case I have to rush off to work. I value my time with my children and whether I am paid double time, time and a half or whatever I would rather be at home with them. I will never look back and wish I had worked more hours but I will look back and wish I had spent more time watching my children grow up.
As the States constantly take things away from Islanders (School Dentist being one that springs to mind that certainly does affect me) there is no goodwill or incentive to constantly bend over backwards to help them out of a problem that has been there for years. If the pay and conditions are so good then why do so many people leave and so very few apply for the job, and the majority of those who do leave say it is actually not worth the money they are paid for the sacrifices they have to make. Don’t get us wrong we are not saying we have it worse than anyone else, we know there are plenty of people far worse off than ourselves but does that mean we just have to sit back and take it?
Finally nobody has ‘whinged’ that they will not do overtime unless they get a payrise. Guaranteed cover is a separate issue for which the payment for this ceased on 1/2/09. As you are no doubt aware it has commenced again, albeit temporarily.
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An Outsider:
Perhaps if you take the time to actually read the comments thoroughly you will have noted that I told you that you probably shouldn’t be commenting on the issue if you are not actually prepared to take note of or actually be interested in the facts/details. Your place of residence has no relevance to your right to comment (fair enough I did include that part of your own statement in my opinion). Things are in the process of hopefully being sorted out once and for all and having spiteful little comments trying to belittle and demean a job that a lot of guys are proud of is not helping an already delicate situation. If you have something worthwhile to say that is based on fact then feel free to let us know.
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The airport firefighters do a job just like everyone else. It is a skilled job and one for which they should be fairly remunerated. I do not think that their requested payrise is undue and if the states had sorted this out sooner – I couldn’t beleive how low their basic salary actually is – (ie not waited two and a half years) we would not be in this mess now. I would like to say thank you to the Firefighters for agreeing to a further 3 months cover to make the travelling public’s life easier. You did not have to do this. Let’s just hope that the States get their act together this time and get this sorted within the relevent timescale. The majority of the public are with you AFS – I hope I, nor anyone else reading this, ever have cause to use you but to know that you are there in case is a great comfort. We only have to look at the news over the past few weeks to see that you are most defineately a necessity!
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According to their shop steward the average hosue price is £400k; therefore they should have a pay rise. LOL!
Classic phone in two weeks ago. The Vale deputy had the shop steward nailed. Tony Spruce for leader!!!
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“Sire the peasants are revolting”
Very interesting stuff; St Andrews School, boat fuel, car parking, St Sampsons School and now mooring fees. It’s seems every way the States turn to ‘charge’ their way out of the zero/10 farce, a few well organised individuals manage to very easily turn the government or the relevent department.
So what’s to do people? The island is in a mess; and I mean a mess. Departments still wanting to spend like drunken lottery winners, and in total denial of the realities of their situation. And a population that wants the same way of life and living as it has had in the heady days of free money piling into the island.
The next 6 months are going to be fascinating.
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Jackie what is so funny about the average hosue or should that be house price being £400k ? The airport firefighters are right in what they are saying about wages being so low and therefore wanting a pay rise. Like yourself probably, your so called leader undoubtly has a nice house with no mortgage to worry about, a nice car sitting in the driveway and at least one if not two holidays already booked for this year. I am with the airport firefighters on this one good luck to them. By the way, i also listened to the phone in and i would not say the firefighters shop steward was nailed, quite the opposite in fact. One more thing Jackie, Tony Spruce for leader, from what i heard on the phone in he is already a very busy man what with being a member of the P.S.D. as well as being a member of the P.S.R.C. (typical Guernsey states) and now you want him to do more ??
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Well em, thanks for that and this highlights the fact that although the safest form of travel these things do have a tendancy to drop out of the skies. This can be vouched for the evening that i spent with 2 pilots 6 inches shorter having dropped quite close to forest road garage!!! Now Jackie. ever spent the night with anyone invloved in an air crash and lets not forget this was at the lower end of the scale(could of been a loaded passenger plane dropping on specsavers with 500 + people inside). Just by looking at these forums you seem to have an awful lot to say which is all heading towards the negative and i would sincerly hope that you are never involved in an air accident as i would hate to have to see you eat your words. Now in the beloved press not so long back, it was front page news that the average house price was 400k, and one would assume that this was fairly accurate. Although as we all know assumption is the mother of all #@*! ups, which is what is happening with all the remaining members of the public who are either mis-informed or generally un-educated! Tony Spruce makes comparisons with all airport trimmings against all town wages minus the trimmings.The reason for this is we have no on call responsibilities and as SM puts it quite nicely, why should these guys go above and beyond to provide a service that gives nothing in return! We are not a charity and Jackie, you seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands to sit and respond to all issue’s surrounding these forums (all negative). How would you like to be at the beck and call of the states day in and day out( and before you say it, this is not in anyones contracts, nor does it mention the use of personnel mobile phones for the benefit of being called out at whatever hour of the day/night to assist medi flights or air-search flights which provides in my opinion an invaluble service to ensure the public of Guernsey can obtain the relevant medical needs that are necessary)! How would you like your partner to be responding at all hours and working 24/7? And how would you like to not see your kids grow up, that is if you have any! You seem like one of these women that is either single or has a child minder to offset any inconveniences! As for an Outsider, well lets leave it at that. How about you stay outside and thanks for your interest however there are far too many outside influences trying to have some form of imput into our Island, Accept where your born or where you are coming too or remain impartial as your opinions have no impact! Like i mentioned earlier, why are their not droves of people applying, let alone able to pass the entrance requiremnets. Outsider please feel free to attempt to meet the requirements, although like i said i think the entrance test may be a little too taxing for you, or the medical, or the physical, or the driving or the breathing apparatus, not to metion the first aid or special constable requirements! Oh and i nearly forgot, your not local!!! Anyway that aside is it not ironic that out of all of this , Airport management, the airline reps, the head of the policy council are all in full support of the Firemen! That is for the lads that are still there, as up to 5 men a day have been in to work covering shortfalls of staff who are not even in employment, and unlike any other workplace, sickness does not just stop with a snivel or flu, the requirements are for firefighters to be 100% fit which means many other injuries may prevent attendance and therefore overtime requirements! X
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Geoff
With reference to your 11.06 posting. I know some airport fire fighters that could not be described as being fit. Portly, and I am being generous here, yes. Athletic no way.
As for six inches and coming close to colliding with FRG? Whats this all about then. 600 yards and quite possibly more I might be able to swallow.
As for aircraft with 500+ passengers on board and falling onto Specsavers? Come again. Do you work for GAPFB or the FB at Gatwick airport?
You seem to allude to knowing more than most but when the facts are looked into you appear to be pretty much clueless on the grand scheme of things.
I am not knocking the APFB at all. If anybody has the need to require their services then I am very sure and comforted by the fact that they would do everything possible to ensure health and safety to all involved in the incident.
It is far better to never need them at all than to keep them on their toes with incident after incident.
Pilots are only allowed to work a certain amount of hours. Peoples lives rest in their hands. It should also be the same for the APFB cos if the unfortunate scenario rears its ugly head the same souls rest with the brigade.
I also would feel bitter if I was at work before my children awoke and arrived back home when they were asleep. Any parent would. Nobody can put a price on something of this value!
A lot of posters are hell bent on concentrating on the financial element to this. It is actually more of a case of these people are merely wanting more guaranteed time with their loved ones and recognition for the long hours that have been served with no arguments in the public domain.
The APFB are now fed up. After the best part of 3 years banging their heads against a brick wall most people would also be.
However, there is some commentators that have indicated that they need to hold down 2 jobs to make ends meet. The truth is very wishy washy!
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Geoff. seems like a raw nerve has been touched! i would like to correct you on a couple of your points if i may.
A service that gives nothing in return? £28,600 basic pay including allowances, overtime if you want it? Gross pay £35,000 to £40,000! including overtime, this is quite nothing!
Special constable requirement? didnt the toys come out of the pram recently and you all gave your badges back!
5 men not employed? Is it not just Black watch that is 1 person short at the moment with the full compliment of 10 firefighters and a station officer on the other 2 watches plus a further 2 station officers and cheif officer as well!
I do wish that you and your collegues would stop bending the facts, this being said you are an insurance policy that we hope will never be claimed on. A fair days pay for a fair days work take a look at what a lot of other states workers are earning, some have had pay freezes! you lot are not poorly paid!
Feel free to correct me iam sure that you Redders or SM will.
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Paul, thanks for your input, I may not of made it quite clear but when i was referring to 6 inches shorter it was the pilots themselves that were 6 inches shorter due to the impact and this was the reason for their deaths ( i shall spare the full detail). Also with regards to 500 people on board, i think you will find that it reads along the lines of “a loaded passenger plane(this could mean a tri with 16 people on board or a dash 8 with 80+ on board) landing on specsavers which i believe employes approx 500 people”. This is a potential disaster that no-one would ever wish to happen however it is certainly possible especially with all the recent air crashes that are occuring lately, which is why we are here and trained to the best of our abilities and will it really take for something like this to happen for us to earn a little respect and appreciation for the job we are trained to do. I do agree that their are a few firefighters that could use a better fitness plan and this is an ongoing progression which is in the process of being approved. As for anon, the basic wage is 21,876 and this rises nearer to the 28k with all enhancements. Believe me if figures like your quoting were attainable their would be no problem! Now as it stands we have currently 1 man short on each shift although we do have new recruits in training at the moment. I think that a complete station turnover in the last 10 years speaks for itself especially as this was a job for life once upon a time. The list goes on and the facts are all there for everyone to see. The only people bending the truth are the politicians who are desperately trying to drum up support to try and save face. Please feel free to pop up and look over the facts for yourself, as you quite rightly stated myself, redders and sm will be only to pleased to go through it with you .Thanks
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Firstly in response to Paul:
I think you have misread Geoff’s comments. I read it as stating Pilots being six inches shorter not the distance the aircraft was from FRG. Also I read it as a reference to 500+ Specsavers employees not Passengers on an aircraft.
Secondly in response to Anon:
Would be more than happy to correct you. £28,600 (approx) is enhanced pay not basic pay. Basic is £21,500 (approx). As for £35,000 – £40,000 gross pay with overtime etc. if only!
No not all watches are up to strength at the moment. All three watches are a man down. Yes two of the watches have now filled the last positions but those guys have not finished training and are not on the run.
It is not for us to worry about other departments having had pay freezes etc. If they feel strongly about it (and I think they should) then it is up to them to take whatever action they feel necessary and they would have my full support.
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Geoff you beat me to it! Hopefully if the facts are spelled out enough times some of them might sink in to the people who think they know.
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So the poor hard done by firemen want more money,and less overtime ,so they can spend time with their families? Is this the quality time with families that they give up because the majority have 2nd jobs?
The £1000 given to them is probably to make up for loss of earnings on their secondary incomes,
You firemen never see your families because when you are not at work, you are too busy ,tractor driving, lorry /digger driving, window cleaning , teaching people to drive, etc, etc.Seeing a fireman today with a tipper truck with his name on it only validates my point that the family excuse is a load of rubbish.
It is well known that firemen, both airport and town, usually are tradesmen, who have a career change ,as the shift work enables them to continue their trade on a part time basis, and earn sometimes double their wage.
No doubt i will get some smart answers to this, but IMO, that is only because i have told it how it is.
Yes, give them the rise they want, but stop them working part time,lets see how they react to that as well. No more cash work, for them , there would soon be another dummy spitting exercise from them.
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Flyer:
I don’t need to give a smart answer when there is only a comment of sub-intelligence being given. I was the one who mentioned about wanting to spend more time with my family and at no point did I mention that I was speaking on behalf of anybody else. I do not have a second job and you will never see me tractor driving, lorry/digger driving, window cleaning, teaching people to drive etc. I can assure you that the people who do have second jobs do not get pleasure from working every hour they are awake. You can guarantee that if the pay was good enough that quite a lot of people would happily quit their spare time jobs. Fair enough their would be some that would carry on with their second jobs and what is the problem with that? You should be slating some of the lazy slobs around who don’t even try to get one job not those who are prepared to work hard whether it be one two or even more jobs.
You come across as a very bitter individual and your comments seem to highlight a deep resentment towards Airport Firefighters. Did you get turned down for the ‘cushy overpaid’ job perhaps or no doubt you will tell us the job is beneath you, after all you sound really clever.
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In addition to my previous submissions, why am I not getting this £1,000 everyone keeps talking about? It must be true after all it was in the papers.
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All I want to ask is why pick on the firemen? Maybe it’s because they don’t lobby the Press like the Post Office does? Did you know the Postmen got paid overtime not to work the other week when there was no mail because of the snow?
And another thing we’re going to have a stamp increase agin next month . I bet thats an inflation buster
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