‘Mooring fee rise could make me quit’
Saturday 14th February 2009, 9:30AM GMT.
BOAT owners are furious after Public Services dramatically increased mooring charges for this year.
Industry associations claimed the rise had been imposed without any consultation, but that was denied by harbour master Captain Peter Gill.
PSD defended the increase, saying the move would bring Guernsey more in line with other ports, help improve facilities and force owners of larger boats to pay more as their vessels caused more wear and tear to the marinas.
The way in which fees are calculated has been changed, meaning boat owners are faced with fees that are significantly higher than inflation – ranging from 10% to 150%, depending on the size of vessel.
Only those with vessels under seven metres long will pay an RPI increase.
John Le Noury (pictured), president of the Guernsey Boat Owners’ Association, said the rises were ludicrous.
‘The sorts of increases they have brought in are complete nonsense,’ he said.
Mr Le Noury, who has been a boat owner for 40 years, said he was thinking about quitting because of the charges.
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This is exactly what privatisation would have done. I’d rather fees went to central government than to a private enterprise.
I can’t imagine too many people will have too much sympathy with people who can afford 30ft boats.
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It is not just mooring fees that have gone up at the harbour. The Port parking permit was £287 last year and that has now gone up to £500. That is a massive 74% increase. How can this be justified against the prevailing RPI.
Again there was no consultation or warning of this increase just a letter informing people that this was the new rate.
How is it that the harbours can get away charging what they like. The issue of paid parking is surely related here as the north beach carpark is on the same piece of land. The states are feel it is fair to charge on motorist £500 for a non-guaranteed space while someone else can park 10 feet away for £26 a year. This surely isn’t fair.
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This is nothing more that another “stealth tax”. Having dug us into a hole with Zero-10, the States are now desperate to raise money any way they can, and the easiest way to do this is to exploit their monopolies, such as the harbours.
It is ridiculous for the Harbour Master to seek to justify these increases on the basis that they will “…bring Guernsey more in line with other ports”. In other places, such as the UK and France, if you are not happy with what a port or marina charges, you can move your boat elsewhere. In Guernsey we do not have that option.
These huge increases will not just affect the “gin palaces” and mega yachts. They will hit the owner of any boat more than 7m (22 ft) in length. That includes a lot of people with modest and often old boats, many of whom already make sacrifices so that they can carry on boating.
If these big increases were to affect only boats more than say 11 metres (36 ft), I think there might be some justification, but to be hitting the traditional boaters with their modest craft as well is most unfair.
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The states and their hobnob friends appear to have a big problem.
They want to bring all their rich friends into the Island, give them huge tax breaks, at the expense of the local people, and help them evade paying tax in their own districts and these people will want to somewhere to moor their Gin-Palaces. As the marina’s are full and there is a waiting list. What can they do for all these ‘Guernsey come latelys’ so they can have somewhere to play with the boats.
They appear to have found an easy solution, put the mooring fees up massively and then the ‘real Guerns?’ will not be able to afford to moor a boat any longer and will have to give up the mooring so some-one more important can have it.
Isn’t it the infux of all these outsiders, speculating on our housing market, that has caused the same problem with the cost of houses.
Should we just give up and recognize our new position in life as serfs to the ‘Guernsey come latelys’.
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Didn’t boat owners escape having their fuel prices go up when motorists had to pay more? Boating is a luxury for most, and owners should not expect moorings to be subsidised if the fees which they are paying do not cover the costs of providing the facilities. Times are hard, and we all have to pay our way for what we use. That’s a new concept for some, but regrettably one which I think we will all have to get more used to in the near future.
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Frank
Only boat owners with diesel engines “escaped” the increase in fuel. The majority of boat owners with average (i.e. family) sized boats have petrol engines and were hit with the increase.
What a coincidence that the cut-off for an RPI increase is 6.99 metres, just short of the average (i.e. family) sized boat. So the average Guernsey boater will pay a 70% increase.
Perhaps the Harbour Master can detail what a 70% increase in facilities will look like. Please don’t say replacement of pontoons (should have been covered by previous mooring fees) or replacement of electricity supply (should have been covered by the additional charge to provide electricity).
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Jackie, I do not want your sympathy. However, I dont think I can afford to run my 30 foot boat (22yrsold) when I will be paying over £2000 in mooring fees.
Some sort of meeting is needed here. This cannot happen.
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I don’t mind paying for good facilities,but Guernsey has none (and I mean for locals use)
No long term parking,no toilets or showers,no security(gates on pontoon entrance)no sewage emptying.Anything else?
Typical dumb comment from Jackie
I know some people who have spent their life savings to go boating and are not wealthy.
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I agree with Jackie.
I cant really relate to these big boat owners at all as there is no way that i can afford the money for a boat nor the leisure time to enjoy one!
I do sympathise with the retired person who has a small boat for recreation and fishing purposes – but i suppose those boats are too small to be affected by this.
However PSD states that it is similar to other ports. I wonder what the cost is in Jersey? If it is similar then i cant see a problem with the cost and 30ft boat owners (like Mick) should be grateful that they have had to pay so little for so long. What exactly are the ports that are PSD referring to? have they just hand picked a few of the more expensive ones around the world to justify the cost? More information is needed.
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Saying that the increased charges are bringing us into line with UK marina charges indicates that, once again, Bernard Flouquet’s thinking is short of the requisite level of sanity.
Consider (i) that UK marina charges are notoriously excessively high, and have decimated the UK marine industry; (ii) we don’t want the same to happen here; (iii) if Flouquet feels lonely and wants to bring the charges into line with something, perhaps he should look east and south and reduce our marina charges to bring them into line with those in France.
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Mick
You aren’g going to like this but a 30ft boat, according to the GEP, would incur much heavier charges in private comparable ports around the UK and France.
If the argument being put by harbours is that the Marinas need maintaining and there are consequential capital costs are you suggesting that us land lubbers should pay for the upkeep of your facilities.
We built the things, isn’t that enough for you?
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Pete – marine petrol was also not included in the fuel duty. Frank, this is because it was argued that boats don’t use the roads or parking spaces. I also wasn’t aware that there was any subsidy of the marinas? Can you confirm this?
People need to realise that all boatowners aren’t mega-rich playboys. Some of us are impoverished student playboys and such a huge rise will undoubtedly drive people away from this most quintessentially Guernsey tradition.
Mick, you’ve got my sympathy! Luckily my modest boat scrapes in under 7m so hopefully I won’t get hit too hard, but then, I guess they’d figured that me, and all the other small boat owners would simply take their boats out of the water and launch them off trailers if mooring fees were too excessive!
I look forward to seeing a 70pc improvement in facilities though! Hopefully they’ll start with some security for the town marinas to stop drunken chavs stealing GPS’s, radios and flares….
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PSD defended the increase, saying the move would bring Guernsey more in line with other ports.
If we need a way to cover any costs for infrastructure, i.e. waste disposal, sewerage treatment, airport, schools etc. not to mention the shortage in the tax receipts due to the adoption of zero ten why not bring income tax in line with the UK.
So I would expect the minister for the PSD to be making recommendations to the income tax authority in the very near future. Lets bring everything in line with the UK, don’t cherry pick.
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What we are to expect?
“Port Solent is the south coast’s premier destination marina with easy access to the Solent.
Set against the vibrant backdrop of the Boardwalk restaurants, bars and shops, sailors are drawn to its unique atmosphere. Top-class facilities, which earned the Yacht Harbour Association’s highest award of Five Gold Anchors, make Port Solent an ideal place to keep your boat.
There is a fully serviced boat yard with storage ashore for 500 boats, 24-hour fuel, top quality showers and toilets, plus free car parking.
Patrols, CCTV and the lock, which allows 24-access to the marina, provide excellent security for Port Solent, which celebrates its 21st anniversary this year. Helpful and professional staff are around 24 hours a day to help you refuel, negotiate the lock, advise on good cruising destinations or assist with any problems.”
I think not!
Yet another States shambles. I expect this is cover the deficit on the New Jetty fiasco.
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Guernsey marinas…. find your boat covered in blood where some drunk has looked for a comfy lay down, or like already said to steal flares, radios, or about ten years ago gauges! And no chance of a marine trader unless you have a nice simple brand new engine that they dont get dirty charging their £40 p.h. The Tidal gauge… how many years has that been out? Boatworks and their petrol monopoly?
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Sure the Victoria marina must bring in a fair sum too?
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thank you i work all week to be able to afford and enjoy my very short boating season this has just broke the camels back
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lots of owners work hard,don,t go to pub everynight etc to enjoy their boating,maybe the fees need to go up by cost of living, but certainly not 100% and more for some.
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Well well its all quite ridiculous !! Guernsey is well and truly closed, not only to visitors but to those who work long and hard to keep the Island alive. As stated a very convienient size rating of 6.99m has been chosen. This will hit any serious boater in the Island with the 70pc hike.
This justification of ” ah well its about time ehh Len” has got to STOP. We are all decent working folk that enjoy our Island and hobbies. STOP this nail in the coffin approach to life on the rock. And as for authorities saying we will get some service and value for our money back… So does that mean we will get some real service out the H.O when we submit mooring requests ??? One does wonder .
Right whos starting the ball rolling on the petition. ??
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Why is it that when a States department wants to justify an increase, they often reference it against the UK!! Perhaps before the States continues to add more and more stealth taxes, how about bringing in a second tax band of 40% for all those earning above £35k, to bring us in line with the UK.
Stealth taxes like this always end up penalising the less wealthy, especial those locals who by nature of living on a small island have sailing boats etc.. but who by no means could be considered wealthy.
Perhaps the States wish to free up more spaces to make room for more larger (bigger income) boats.
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I will admit that this is all very typical of the States
We introduce zero/10 just before a credit crunch and tax receipts collapse
We raise mooring fees when most of the larger boats will be going on the market
We have 400million of capex demands in the year the we take 95 million out of our earnings
We start charging proper rates for services when the island is in trouble
Instead of building infrastructure when we have the cash, we built vanity projects -’underperforming arts centre’, case in point
We are either very unlucky, amateurish, a joke or just thick.
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I think that the point a lot of people are making is very valid – this doesn’t just hit the wealthy.
Just done a bit of homework and a “comparable” marina complex would be Dartmouth. Their fees are just a little higher than we already pay here. Its also a flat rate per metre (length not square metres).
Its not private but a trust port and roughly similar to our own Harbour Authority.
And again to reiterate my earlier point you can’t compare Guernsey’s marinas to the likes of Port Solent etc.
Someone in PSD needs to have a serious reality check.
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I may be a bit of landlubber but to me a 30ft boat is a pure and unadulterated luxury, unless it’s a fishing craft or a commercial boat of any other description, or unless its also your home and you actually live on it. Why on earth shouldn’t we charge these pleasure seekers a realistic rate for using a finite resource (our harbours and marinas) that the rest of us never use or benefit from?
By all means exempt visiting yachties and fishermen and people who live of their boats. The rest of you whining local seadogs can start paying a decent rate for a service you’ve been well undercharged for until now!
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Martyn, I think you’ll find that boat owners already pay (as Gilthead states) a fair and unsubsidised cost towards the harbour and marinas that they use. What evidence do you have that we’re undercharged???
Boating for me and others is a hobby, it’s no different to any other hobby, take, I dunno, golf,except we pay our green fees to the Harbour Office. If you pitched up to L’Ancresse and they told you that fees had gone up by up to 150pc would you tolerate that?
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When I were a lad, Student Bob, the average student could find hardly enough pennies to put together for a can of beans or a half pint at the ‘uni’, let alone an expensive boating habit!
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Ahoy! Martyn – we (other harbour users) already subsidise commercial fishermen. Rightly or wrongly.
Jackie and Student Bob have touched on a very important point – if the fees do rise and people give up boating and berths become empty then revenue will fall – which is counter productive. Is it not?
This then impacts the marine trade and so on and so on. You will then end up in a total mess.
This is typical States short termism – to stimulate the economy you don’t tax (charge) excessively for public services – which is what the Harbour Authority is.
And yes Martyn, boats are a luxury but so is your car, your house, your clothes, your shoes.
I do however agree that us boaters should pay fairly for our moorings – but these rises, however you look at it, are toally unreasonable.
Fact.
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“If you pitched up to L’Ancresse and they told you that fees had gone up by up to 150pc would you tolerate that?” That might need reviewing also. Difficult times people. Government can’t save, tax receipts are down, you want more services – so where’s the money coming from?
I know what I would do, but that is in the ‘too difficult box’
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Ah yes Jackie – but increasing taxes in a downturn only supresses the economy further.
Its short term gain for long term pain.
In the present climate surely its better not to start taxing more?
Is it me or do the States appear not to have a plan?
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To all the posters that think boaters have had a bargain with mooring fees up until now. The ports account is over 40 million in credit so it most certainly has not been running at a loss!
By all means hit the luxurious new boats above a certain length, 10 meters or more. However I feel it is harsh to punish hobby boaters below this length.
We will start to see many more boats on our roads being towed to and from slipways as a consequence of these charges.
More traffic calming measures and hacked off motorists. I know many boaters that nobody would ever consider as being wealthy. They have simply gone without many things that others enjoy so that they can afford to partake in their chosen pastime.
A 32 foot yacht does very little damage or wear and tare to any marina. A 46 foot Fairline is a different story.
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Our family goes to work. We choose not to socialise, go boozing, fine dining, package holidays, movies etc. Instead we save our hard earnt pennies to spend on our hobby. Suddenly wam bam -we have a hugh mooring fee rise. We can’t say oh well this year we will keep the boat ashore for longer as there is no long term onshore storage available so we either pay up or sell. Not much of a choice! As for comparing to facilities in France and the UK … they have toilets, parking and showers available. They have security (Ohh yes St Sampsons – but when was the code last changed and how many islanders know these codes?) Other juristications Harbour staff monitor the commings and goings of the boats – eg speeds within the marina gates. Uhh not so in Guernsey, and did the harbour master really indicate to the GYC, GBA etc that he wanted to make these kind of increases – I think not – he may have tocuhed on the topic of fee rises but I doubt he spelt out his exact plans. I don’t see committee members having happily signed up to Extortionate increase like these.
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That’s the point Martyn, up until now boating WASN’T an expensive hobby!!!
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Gilthead
I broadly agree with your points, only because of my lack of confidence in our government to make either a) a decision and b) the right decision. A rather sad admission.
But I must pull you up on the following:
“And yes Martyn, boats are a luxury but so is your car, your house, your clothes, your shoes.”
Shelter and food and clothing forms the triangle of basic necessity. A boat does not; unless of course you live on one :)
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Avast there me hearties. I’ll bow a little to the seafarin’ knowledge of you boaties out there and agree that you might have a case with regard to the level of these increases.
What I can’t accept is that anyone with enough dubloons to buy a 30ft boat can’t also afford to spend a few more pieces of eight on moorin’ her up in a safe harbour, showers or no showers.
Our treasure chest is low and we need to keep it topped up in all sorts of creative ways including this one. And I’m afraid Jackie is right. Boating is a luxury or a hobby or both and not one of life’s essentials, especially for landlubbers like me who don’t have very good sea legs.
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Shelter and food and clothing forms the triangle of basic necessity. A boat does not; unless of course you live on one
Do we have to ask what your luxurys are so we can start comparing?
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Mick
It’s handbags; lot’s of them
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I have just watched the local news on the B.B.C. and once again I question if I am paranoid or if others have the distinctly uncomfortable feeling that the people of Guernsey and most of the States Members are being manipulated and whether plans for “done deals” are being put in place so that certain private parties in business (with the aid of a few well placed people of influence) can achieve their individual aims.
I refer to a proposed new marina in the Careening Hard. A couple of years ago, a competition was organised for architects and whoever had the inclination to put forward plans for a new yacht club. The proposer of the development stated in the local press at the time that “this will be built”.
Now, after the furore has died down somewhat we suddenly have a huge hike in mooring fees and someone suggesting that maybe these could be avoided by the adoption of the careening hard marina project.
With marinas, usually there are facilities – does anyone see my drift? I am waiting next for someone to come forward and generously offer funds to enable the project if they can have something in return (just to make it viable, you understand) and of course the main aim will be to help the People of Guernsey out in the present credit crunch as it will create local employment etc. blah, blah, blah.
Am I paranoid or are there others out there with the hair on their necks rising a little. I do know the Guernsey people are not as gullible as some would have them be.
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Jackie and good many others have missed the point
about these outrageous mooring fee charges.This time its the boat owners,both local and visitors whos turn is next to pay for our states poor money management.Guernsey has a rich maritme history,are to allow it to be killed off by ludicrous over charging.
Most boaters carry out their hobby on a budget,their boat is a hobby and for agood many their annual holiday too!Would you deny a Man whom has worked hard all year his anual break!What about Fishermen their boat is their lively hood,that nice piece of fish you enjoy at the chippy or resturant is going to go up to cover costs is’nt it.
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Like I’ve said before – we boaters should pay fair dues for our moorings.
My 22 footer costs me just over £600 a year. For that I get a space, thats it. I don’t consider that unfair and am happy to pay for it.
With the proposed rise (I’m a lucky one!) it will be close to £700 – again I’m not too unhappy.
But if it hits a grand – mmm – I’d start to think twice.
The question is what is fair? And again I don’t think the proposed increases for larger craft are.
I’ll try to think of a way to tax Jackie’s handbags too…
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Martyn
you say “What I can’t accept is that anyone with enough dubloons to buy a 30ft boat can’t also afford to spend a few more pieces of eight on moorin’ her up in a safe harbour”
Who says how these people have not worked all their working life and saved hard and retired spending a little on a hobby to keep them sane, had an accident (may be not of their cause) and used an insurance payment, lost all living realitives and used inheritance.
Buying a boat is a one off cost, year on costs are something you budget for, stink posts (aka motor boats) being more epensive than rag and sticks (aka Yachts). Some are experiencing increases of 1,500 GBP (and more). This not something that can easily be swallowed, especially with no prior warning to allow you to change your budgeting or make other alternative arrangements.
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To stop the stereo typing, I have a friend with a £100k boat. He is the first to admit he has nothing else!! It is his entire savings. Some may say daft, but that is what boating does to you. My point is that this ordinary working person simply cannot afford these over the top increases. Like said before, Tax the golf course! They can afford not to work!!
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Gilthead
Totally in agreement with your last post.
I am also (relatively) happy to pay £600/700 a year for the space.
Not very happy to pay £1,000+
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http://www.my-gsy.com/archive/harbour.JPG-for-web-large.jpg
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This is just the beginning Income Tax is hated by the wealthy as its fair.
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Gilthead et al, couldn’t agree more. Piracy as we ply the Little Russell is always a risk, but you don’t expect it from the PSD!!
The monthly mooring charges for the 21ft HMS Student Bob are the same as a round of golf at L’Ancresse at about £50. I don’t want a shower or changing rooms or lockers – I’ve got all those at home. All I want is somewhere to tie my boat up.
These amenities are great for visitors and we already have them at the visitors marina. Building anything else is a folly.
It is obvious then that the ideal way to raise revenue is to tax Jackie’s handbag habit as well as the poor boatowner. How about this…. We classify handbags and boats and whatnot as ‘luxury’ goods then put a tax on them. It could be calculated as a percentage of their value!! Genius. Student Bob for Chief Minister?!?
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Oh, now it all makes sense….. This from the Cable & Tiresome news section…. “Guernsey could soon be attracting super-wealthy yachters with a new marina project. Officials want to construct the new development for larger vessels in the careening hard area of existing marina facilities. It could cost over £20million”
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I am a boat owner – it is one of my few luxuries. I am lucky that I will be able to afford a 20% or so increase for my berth. But like many, I will be reconsidering if this cost goes up any more.
I wonder if the States have considered the potential revenues lost through fuel duty when they force people to give up their boats?
By all means increase the berthing fees, but it must be a reasonable increment. Bringing Guernsey ‘into line with other ports’ doesn’t make it right.
The bigger issue is that the States need to grow some balls and take on a capital deficit in order to finance the increasing number of infrastructure projects that need taking care of. Surely there is no better time than now given the current interest rate situation?
The days of sitting on a rainy day fund have to end.
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What are we meant to do if we can’t afford the increase – set fire to our boat, cos selling it won’t be easy and certainly not possible before the new fes are due for payment. Then we can be happy knowing we are paying the marine mortgage on a pile of ashes.
Captain Gill will you buy my boat or can I store it in your back yard until I can find a buyer?
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And bear in mind this is a public service run by civil servants.
As Student Bob intimates if the fee increase is to fund a “super yacht” marina then that is an absolute scandal.
Well lets hope that will pour some water on the “you need to cough up more” brigade (to quell their flames).
Yet another cracking idea where the Island robs the poor to subsidise the rich!
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This is all part of taxation by the back door. I am a boater and a guernseyman. The states they got if wrong them. The zero ten it’s not working.
The money for custered castle has to come from some where. The list of new taxes is going to get biger a.
1) Roof tax TRP
2) Waste water charge.
3) Increse in Electric.
4) Increse in morring fees.
5) Planning application fees.
6) Paid parking.
7) Probable increse in sosial security.
8) Lets bring back a window tax.
The list will go on and it is down to miss management.
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This message is for Jackie, who obviously needs to live a little and find a hobby herself and all those who think that Boatowners are wealthy, stinking rich people. My husband and I (who are average working class) own our boat jointly and this is our chosen HOBBY. Please note HOBBY!
We do not go out regularly, we do not drink, go to the gym, do beauty salons, go rifle shooting, play any sport (which joining clubs is expensive, done that worn the T. shirt), buy designer clothes, live a life of luxury etc. etc. We have chosen to do a HOBBY together, therefore, we put all our hard earned cash into our HOBBY.
For example a smoker of 20 per day spends (average £4.00 per packet) £1,460.00 per year.
One average night out down the pub, drinks and taxi £60.00 (modest spending), £3,120 per year.
Joining a Gym £36.00 per month = £432.00 per year. (My work colleagues actually spend a lot more going to the Gym).
It is up to my husband and I how we decide to spend our money. As does everyone else have a right to spend their money whichever way they choose fit.
As far as I was aware, Guernsey has freedom of speech and we are supposed to be run by a democratic States chosen by the public, not a DICTATORSHIP. Guernsey is not a Communist Island and, therefore, we will not be dictated to. These charges were composed and agreed in SECRET behind closed doors. Typical States. Not I, nor any of the boatowners that I have spoken to heard anything about this, no letter was received, no news in the Guernsey Press, no voice on Island FM, no word of mouth, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
This behaviour is absolutlely disgusting and is not acceptable. The majority of the boatowners will not sit down and take this.
WHY SHOULD WE.
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Right you swabs, it appears you have been pulling my non sealegs. I was out tonight with two seafaring couples who’ve been living in the real world by paying proper fees for moorings at Beaucette.
They inform me that even with the latest increases, the prices you lot will be charged in future are ‘more than reasonable’ and also that you have been enjoying ‘impossibly low’ fees for decades.
Furthermore, they inform me there’s a huge waiting list for spaces at the marinas run by the States and one of the couples I spoke to said they ended up selling their boat because they were told they’d have to wait at six to eight years for one.
These boatie acquaintances of mine also tell me they’d have been more than happy to pay the new fees and they can’t see what you’re all moaning about, apart from the fact that you’ve been rumbled at last!
Having got to the truth of the matter I’d much rather see a super marina than you bunch of freeloaders being allowed to get away with ridiculously cheap rates for a facility that is so much in demand.
If you don’t like it get out and let people who are happy to pay the proper market rate take your places.
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BOATOWNER’S unite! lets not Grumble and do nothing! Lets find some of that old French heritage of ours, and protest as the French do! A blockade for instance?
There are enough angry boaters out there to bring Harbour Master Gill’s Precious St.Peter Port Harbour to a stand still. He needs to be reminded along with Deputy Flouquet, This is our Harbour not theirs.
All we want is fair fee’s for Local boaters and not to subsidise THE RICH! with their gin palace’s in their new careening hard marina.
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I have not even got a marina mooring for my 7m boat yet after 2 1/2 years, if anyone is going to give up their mooring let me know, I’M DESPERATE.
In the summer I have to keep it in a bay and move it each time the wind gets above F5 which is very scary sometimes. I work hard but only earn less then £9000 and I scrimp and save to keep it so I can go to the other islands and not have to pay for accomodation.
I don’t mind a small increase when I get a mooring, but I would not want to see big increases for any boat owner. The harbour is now proposing this new marina project in the careening hard (which will ruin it) for 100 large boats up to 120ft. If it got built, how many people will afford the new mooring fees for large craft like that?
It may well be empty, another states white elephant.
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Martyn – you really don’t get it do you? Your comments are utterly ridiculous.
Your mates at Beaucette get a full suite of facilities – and pay for it – fair do’s.
The rest of us don’t and therefore shouldn’t.
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Martyn,
The reason our marina is cheaper than many others is that It is not owned by a private company and its share holders like most other marina’s. It is ours, real GUERNS, who paid for it to be built in the first place.
Now we, the REAL GUERNS, are being forced out by the megarich, ‘Guernsey come latelys’ who contributed ZERO towards its construction.
Now how about this idea;
1)If you are a REAL Guern, ie you have the right to live in a local market house without a housing license, then your rates go up by RPI only (remember you paid to build the marina and all the parking at north beach in the first place.
2)If you are a ‘Guernsey come lately’, ie. you cannot live in a local market house without a license, then you probably did not pay towards the construction of the marina and car parks so your rates should go up 300% as you should not get shareholder rates.
Priority on moorings should also go to REAL GUERNS before ‘Guernsey come latelys’ as they paid for the marina to be built in the first place.
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Martyn, I am one of the many at the St. Sampsons marina. Please tell me what facilities there are available to us other than a half-a***d ‘security’ gate which any would-be thief could find their way around if they wanted to?
Colin’s suggestion of a blockade sounds quite entertaining.
The comments about a new careening hard marina is also news to me. Surely spending big money on our runway, schools, sewage, waste solution, etc is of much higher priority than catering for a minority of well-off boat owners?
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Surely all of this must put our Harbourmaster in a rather difficiut position. He has blatently told some rather large porkies when he says that the relevant boating associations agreed with the rises during past meetings. This is simply not true! It was agreed that fees would have to rise at some point to improve facilities in the marinas etc. This is all that was agreed not the size of the increases. Looking at the relevant Billet it quite clearly states that future fees rises must not exceed RPI so what has happened?
I am sure none of this would have happened if we still had our previous harbourmasters who were very boater friendly. Our latest incumbent seems to have little interest in looking after us boating folk, and only wants to try and create a superyacht marina which he claims is all his idea. He is obviously completely out of touch with what the real issues are
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It’s another stealth tax, plain & simple. States policies have landed us in this mess & the only way forward they can see is tax on tax on tax. Can our leaders not see that following the UK way is sheer folly?
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i have been private boating for over 15 years and have many friends that also own boats. we are all in the proposed 70% bracket. We all boat on budgets and are not mega rich locals. We buy local fuel, use local marine engineers, local chandlers and local crane/haulage services. we are all considering our future boating because of these increases. If we and other locals sold our boats and moved out of boating it will have a knock on effect to all associated businesses.I don’t mind paying for what i use but don’t like being ripped off because you pay more in England! The last time i looked out the window i thought i lived in Guernsey, not England.
P.s i know of boats of 45ft plus that are returned to their resepective English factories for their annual service etc which again takes money away from local businesses, so what do you think will happen when the careening hard is filled up with superyachts.
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Martyn – impossibly low fees in St Sampsons and St PP marinas for decades?? Decades!? Kinda suggests that everything’s been running quite nicely eh? Especially with the harbour bank account looking rather healthy by all accounts.
Remember that Beaucette has a full range of facilities to support including a bar and restaurant!!
Whilst the concept of our mooring fees funding a superyacht marina is abhorrent, I really cannot believe that this will happen. It is truly, epically out of touch to begin to imagine that there is a market for this. Sure, superyachts pass by on the way to the Med from builders in the UK, Germany and Holland, but who really believes that Abramovich and his ilk are really on board?! It’s a delivery crew and most already stop by only to refuel on cheap diesel enroute. There is no reason for them to overnight in Guernsey. Guernsey isn’t in the Med and it isn’t Monaco. Sheikhs simply don’t take their superyachts for cruises of the glamourous industrial ports of the English channel!! Ridiculous. But, you know, hopefully they’ll build it, then after a few years of staring at an empty marina they’ll let me tie up HMS Student Bob, even I can’t mess up mooring a 21ft boat in a space designed for 120ft….
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It seems to me that this harbour master seems to have forgotten that he is a civil servant and not a businessman.
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I am glad to see the fees have been postponed. if they were increased not only would it affect our tourism but also that of Herm and Jersey. I am a regular visitor to Herm in the summer on my boat. I am not bound by the times of the travel trident or the drunken fools who use is to get back to Guernsey. I can go water skiing and relax from the busy week at work. I dont own an expensive boat and my current mooring cots me over 1/6th of my boats total value. How about we implement the paid parking at the same level as the UK and see how many drivers like it? of course this would also include my boating costs because I would have to pay to park while I was out on my boat.
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There are a couple of illogical areas with this that I see.
Firstly, Having looked at the breakdown of fees for whichever size boat you have, you end up paying more per square metre the larger your boat is, not less which would normally be the case!
Secondly, I would love to know a little bit about PDS’s claim that “larger boats create more wear and tear” How is this quantifiable to the tune of 130% rise on a mooring fee?
There are too many holes to pick in all sides of PDS’s statement which means this has been a very another very lacklustre performance from another underperforming civil service!
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Angel – your position sounds so like ours.
Martyn – why do your friends moor in Beaucette – are they live aboards ?
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Whoops. Stirred up a right old nest of stinging jellyfish here. Basically, what it boils down to is that you’ve all had it pretty good with pretty low fees for a pretty long time and, in the current situation Guernsey finds itself in, shouldn’t you be prepared to pay a bit more than just an RPI increase the next time round?
Awg to answer your question. One of the couples I know is live aboard the other isn’t. I checked with them again and they all think you’re getting a very, very good deal indeed as things stand. Hope that clarifies things for you all.
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Martyn
One couple has to pay the price if they are live aboard – they have no choice as living on your boat is not an option in the local states marina moorings. The other couple – do they have money to waste (must be one of those mega rich people (are they even local?) – why pay more than needs be – or are they (like we were at one time) waiting for the cheaper option to become available to them. (Oh and we are local) I don’t mind an increase, and but in the current climate the increases that have been proposed and with no prior notification to those it will impact is “bang out of order”. Do you have a back garden where those who simply cannot afford the increase can put their boats whilst trying to make other mooring arrangements and/or sell our their pride and joy. Many have marine mortgages/ personal loans tied into owning a family sized boat and these loans have not necessarily benefited from the base rates cuts.
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Great news about “the climb down”
Harbour Master hasn’t come out of it particularly well.
RPI sensible – but it’s going to the States so we need to be vigilant
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Inevitably views are determined largely by those who have boats and those who have not. So the divide rages predictably on. The matter that concerns me is the prior reason as reported in the GEP given by Public Services in that our rates would be more in line with charges in the elsewhere? What in the world has it to do with what one pays in the UK or Valetta for that matter? I thought it was what was needed to meet the service and maintenance requirements here. Is this another standup job by our man at the PS who has suddenly become camera shy.
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Working on the cost of a mooring for a 22 foot.
The cost these people pay by my maths is 7 and a half PENCE per day per foot to occupy premium space.
At the same rate an average car owner should pay about 90 pence per day to park all day. Far below what is seen as a reasonable charge.
How the boat owners have the nerve to complain about an increase is quite incredible!!
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