Killer dogs drive Forest couple to quit keeping chickens
Tuesday 17th February 2009, 2:29PM GMT.
Francis Russell surveys the pile of feathers after a dog attack killed three and injured one of the 20 silkie chickens that survived a New Year’s Day attack. Four were safe in their hen house when dogs struck again but the rest of the birds have vanished. (Picture by Adrian Miller, 0721643)
JUST six weeks after 17 were killed by dogs, Francis Russell’s silkie chickens have been attacked again.
Mr Russell and his wife, Sue, live at the Gouffre next to an area regularly used by dog walkers.
On Sunday morning, Mr Russell fed his remaining 20 birds and had a shower. Then he noticed one of the birds in a different area and immediately knew what had happened.
‘I went straight out and they had gone,’ he said.
On New Year’s Day, he woke to find 17 of his birds dead. This time, three had been killed and one injured.
But there are now only four left of the 20 survivors of the original attack. These were nesting in the hen house on Sunday.
The rest of his pedigree birds are unaccounted for. He blamed the same animals that carried out the first strike and, by the size of the bite marks, he believed they were terriers.
‘My wife was devastated,’ he said. ‘We aren’t going to get any more.’
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This is terrible! Can people not control their dogs or atleast keep them on a lead! I truly feel sorry for Mr & Mrs Russell as these were their pets, just like the dog that killed them.
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Loved the Animal Shelter quote in the GP. Blaming the owner for not penning his free range chickens. A genious piece of ‘back at you’ from Mrs Le Cras; the law is clear, dogs need to be kept on leads in public places. Increasingly I am of the opinion that dog owners should have psychometric tests to ascertain their stupidity level.
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I really feel for the Russells. This problem is going to become increasingly common as more people take to keeping chickens, until dog owners actally take responsibility for controlling their animals!
We keep chickens and are near a main road where people frequently walk their dogs so have erected dog proof fences and now the Environment Department are on our backs because the fences are not ‘in keeping’ with the rural Guernsey environment.
Perhaps if dog walkers spent a bit less time admiring the views and a bit more time on watching what their pets were up to then such fencing would be unnecessary?
As Jackie observed above, the irony is probably lost on most of them…
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He shouldnt let them roam in an unfenced area and dogs should also be kept under control.
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Once bitten. Twice shy. I would have thought that the Russell’s would have learn’t from the first attack and erected a suitable fence around the chickens in order to keep blood thirsty dogs out.
I am well aware that there will be many that feel that they should not have to. In a perfect world these measures would not be needed. We don’t live in a perfect world.
If the birds were that prized as they have been described then a few hundred quid to keep dogs out is not much of an outlay. Dogs do and always will go awol from time to time. It doesn’t make the owner irresponsible.
Lots of parents take their eye of their child for a split second and before they know it the child has wondered off and is considered lost. Does this make them irresponsible parents that should have never been allowed to have children?
No it doesn’t. It happens and people need to accept it.
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Cats will kill chickens. Cats running wild are a bigger menace than dogs and should be licenced as well
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I don’t believe that there is a law in Guernsey stating that dogs have to be kept on leads in public places.
I have 2 dogs, and they are always kept on lead when they are outside our property. Our garden is also completely secure.
Personally I think that a law requiring dogs to be kept on lead in public places needs to be put in place. This would ensure that things like this do not happen. It would also ensure that aggresive dogs do not attack other dogs, and should reduce the amount of dog mess left in public places.
Dog mess is a real problem in Guernsey, and I believe that part of the cause is that dogs are let off-leash, so their owners don’t see when they go to the toilet. This allows them to use the excuse that the mess may not be from their dog, so they won’t pick it up.
Saying that, I have never seen a dog being walked off-lead in the lanes around our house, yet there is fresh dog mess there on a daily basis. There should be stronger penalties for those who do not clear up after their dogs, ultimately resulting in them being banned from owning them.
And Jackie, your last sentance about dog owners has reduced the already low opinion that I have built up of you from some of your blithe comments on this site, perhaps it is you that needs to consider the intelligence displayed in some of your comments before posting such drivel?
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nobby
I completely agree with you. Cats do kill chickens. Cats probably kill more chickens than dogs do. Are you suggesting that they are kept on leads though?
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Agree with Jackie.
The law requires that dogs need to be kept on leads and your property needs to be fenced securely.
99.9% of dog owners fully respect the law but there will always that 0.1% of people out there who just dont give a damn.
If you choose to own a dog capable of a lot of damage then you need to be extra vigilant. Unfortunately the most stupid of dog owners (that 0.1%) tend to want to own the most dangerous of dogs (and by that i mean capable of causing a lot of damage) and then make it worse by putting little or no effort into training them or exercising them.
I feel for the Russells, however, after the last attack they should have realised that they needed to protect the chickens against that 0.1%. Unfortunately we dont live in a perfect world where all dog owners act responsibly. I just wish they could have caught the animals in the act so that they could prosecute the owners.
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<>
Thank you George. I would be concerned if you had a high opinion of me; you appear to be a dog nutter
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Jackie, thank you for that insightful and intelligent response!
So what you are saying is that anyone who owns dogs has a worthless opinion?
Perhaps you could explain what aspect of having dogs qualifies somebody as having a high ‘stupidity level’ or being a ‘nutter’ as you so eloquently put it?
What experience in life has caused you to have such a discriminatory attitude against dog owners?
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The law stipulates that dogs have to be kept on a lead in certain public places, although not all. Those places are detailed here:
http://www.gov.gg/ccm/environment/coastal-management/coastal-management/legislation/the-control-of-dogs-ordinance-1992.en
That said I know dog owners who will not let their animals off a lead anywhere, as they are aware of their dog’s behaviour towards other dogs / children – this is responsible ownership.
Paul – excellent points all round. In response to your question (which I assume was slightly tongue-in-cheek) why not put cats on leads? It’s no more “unnatural” for a cat to be on a lead than a dog…after all, before domestication, how many wild dogs (or cats) had leads on?! :-)
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>>What experience in life has caused you to have such a discriminatory attitude against dog owners?<<
In the main dog owners are relatively responsible. Having had children who walk public beaches and have been approached by lumox dogs that have scared the bejeepers out of them I am, indeed, bias towards stupid dog owners.
The usual response from the goon owners is a fixed grin and some idiot response liek ‘he won’t bite’ or ‘he’s never done that before’
What I find amazing is that dog owners beleive that the normal population have the same affection for their fluffy fiends. Some two year olds, surprisingly as it may seem are scared witless by these uncontrolled hounds.
What is sadder is and demonstrates the irresponsibility is that we even have to have an ordinance to control dogs. In my world anyone with an IQ marginally above room temperature would know that there is a cafe, park, child or whatever near their walk space and bring them to heel. Often the case is that they do not.
The fact that Le Cras comes to the defense of these nut cases, to the common person, only adds weight to how dog owners have convinced the public that their muts have the same rights as a children.
Dog owners should be vetted (paron the pun). Some should be lobotomised.
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Jackie, I regularly donate to the Animal Shelter. If they indeed do condone this act of irresponsible dog ownership resulting in the savage killing of chickens then i am really rethinking my donations.
It is strange that they would take that attitude given the fact that they wouldnt exist if it werent for the irresponsibility of dog/pet owners in the majority of cases. Maybe the comment was misconstrued or misinterpreted in some way. I really hope that this is the case.
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Jackie, the thing is I agree with most of what you have said above. There are irresponsible dog owners who need to control their dogs properly.
Unfortunately the law only covers a small number of areas, and even in those the law is largely ignored.
As I said in my original post, my dogs are always kept on a lead when in public, I always pick up after them, and they are kept in a secure area at all times. There are many other dog owners who do the same, so please judge people by their individual actions rather than tarring them all with the same brush.
I actually had a fear of dogs for the large majority of my life due to things that happened when I was a child. Unless you really understand dogs it is easy to misinterpret their actions as being aggressive. It is up to the dog owners to control their dogs properly to ensure that they do not scare people rather than expecting people to understand a dog’s body language and beaviour.
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Jackie – I don’t agree with some of your points however (although I am against wanton cruelty to animals) I 100% agree that there is a growing attitude among some that dogs – you can replace dog with animals in many cases – have the same rights as children, or any human for that matter. That same belief, in a more extreme guise, is what drives animal rights extremists to attack (and sometimes kill) those who carry out research on animals – some of which, like medical research is warranted, others such as cosmetic testing is more debateable.
Of course some might say that, if one truly subscribes to the Darwinist view that human beings are nothing more than evolved apes this is a logical conclusion. It won’t surprise you to learn that I don’t subscribe to that view however that is another discussion altogether! (I am a dog owner by the way!)
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reading some of the above comments about dog owners being responsible, i’am a dog owner and i have 2 small dog that (i regard as harmless) but yes i always keep them on a lead so i can keep an i eye on them and clean up. I hate when out with mates and someone stands in dog mess that has not been cleaned up as above it is a problem in the island.
on one occasion i took one of our dogs out and i her on a lead then two boxer’s appeard and started to “play” my dog was terrified and wet herself etc.. i had to pick her up as no owner was insite and one had tryed to playfully bite my dog. once the dog was in my arms i then still had two dog by my feet still No owner there was barking as they were trying to get up to mine (i’am over 6ft and my dog was trying to climb up on my head) one dog jumped up and knocked me down to the foor. at this point as still no owner (after 20+mins has appeared i did lose my rag just a little. (did NOT hit any animal) then from behind a hedge a woman appeared and called her two “little darlings” to her. her responce to me when she got close was that they only wanted to
“play” and i was teasing them!!! (read into that how you will) My point is that one animals way of playing can been seen as aggressive or threatening for a person/dog and its the owners responsibility to be the one in control.
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Further to my previous comments, if dogs were treated like animals and not people or fashion accessories by some owners, perhaps we wouldn’t have so many incidents like those experienced by Chris and others.
Just watch the Dog Whisperer programme and see how some people treat their animals (and the consequences that ensue) and you’ll see what I mean. To treat a dog as a person, fashion accessory – anything other than a dog in fact is cruelty. In fact watching that programme at times does make one think that Jackies idea of having psychometric tests maybe isn’t as daft as it sounds!
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The reality is George and Paul is that there are simply too many people demanding too much access to too little space.
20 years ago we simply would not be having this discussion.
A bit like one hoodie shouting in the middle of town doesn’t make all teenagers vandals equally a few dim dog lovers doesn’t make all dog owners irresponsible.
However that reality is that the few make the many more wary of teenagers and dog owners.
Rats in a barrel :)
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If dogs are worrying your livestock / animals on your land I think you will find you are well within your rights to shoot them.
Know someone with a shotgun?
If people think you will shoot their dog if they don’t control it and allow it to worry your animals they may take more care.
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Neil
I feel that you may want to rethink what you have written?
If a chicken flies over my hedge does this give me the right to blast it away and roast it for lunch then!
How about cats/also dogs? Some Chinese inhabitants on this Island may wish to use the same argument.
It simply does not work and unless the animal in question is displaying a real danger to human life it is not legal as far as I am aware. I may be wrong but I would be shocked if I was?
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Jackie
I totally agree. You may wish to have a chat with my good old mate Lyndon trott and see where his go for growth strategy will lead us. Guernsey the new Hong Kong in the Channel Islands!
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Neil
I think you will find a very small minority of the population on this Island own a gun. We don’t live in New York.
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Neil- Good comment
It would be interesting to what the perception would be if Mr Russel had shot the dogs, methinks the anonymous owner of these dogs wouldnt be so anonymous when the shoe was on the other foot.
And to the guys who reckon cats kill chickens, yes technically its possible that a very large cat could kill a juvenile chiken but once a chicken is past a certain size a cat wouldnt really have a chance to kill it, because a cat is trying to catch rather than kill.
Whereas the dogs have just indiscriminately killed.
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Neil – do you want to rethink your post – ie. is it racist to suggest that all Chinese eat dogs and cats. Will you be subjected to the same sort of witch hunt as happens on this forum regularly perhaps…. can’t wait to see.
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Alas, as the years have gone by and the residential laws have been so dramatically relaxed all to the benefit of the wealthy (Guernsey born people included here)the ‘gem of the sea’ is now so grossly over-populated by humans and animals alike! Sad days but very happy memories of years ago.
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I’ve never felt to urge to post here before but seeing as everyone here seems to be opposed to dogs being off leads, i felt i’d add my views.
Hunting dogs – IE the dogs who help to keep the wild rabbit population down in shooting season (your beautiful commons would be in a right mess if not for them) – are trained to kill, also, even when they are not officially hunting, they hunt.
My parents keep Jack Russell Terriers for hunting, they are lovely dogs, well behaved, and never vicious towards people, but they are trained to kill. Therefore when they are taken out they are out on the commons they are always loose. But they never bother people, and are only interested in one thing.
My question is, hunting dog or not, how is a dog supposed to differentiate between it’s prey, and some pretty pet chickens?
Answer me that.
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Sarnia Expat
It was actually me that posted the comment on the Chinese not Neil. It was a typo. I was in a rush and had a busy day ahead of me. I don’t consider it at all one bit racist. How can food tastes and choices be related to racism exactly!
If yo have had the pleasure to travel to most Asian countries you will see that many, not all there are some vegetarians like there are over here, do in fact eat cats and dogs.
You choose which animal, pet as we refer to them, whilst they are alive and with in half an hour it is in front of you on a plate.
Not my idea of a fine meal but each to their own. You will find that ideals change throughout the world. I enjoy shellfish and most fish. I also eat meat but not cats or dogs. Would you consider me a racist then. Possible towards crabs, lobsters as well as many others kinds of fish and meats possibly.
What one eats can never be equated towards racism. It is dietary preferences.
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maybe the french members of this island can use the same argument with horses!!!! the island is too small for all these animals…who had the bright idea to import rescue dogs when we have enough of our own strays to deal with..just another money making scheme i reckon.
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Rachel,
How is a dog supposed to differentiate bw its prey and someones chickens? They arent – the owners are. The owners are also supposed to know the difference between a private field and a common and also have the guts to come forward and take responsibility if any damage has been done.
I would prefer to take a walk with my family through a common full of rabbits than through one full of loose dogs trained to kill.
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>>My question is, hunting dog or not, how is a dog supposed to differentiate between it’s prey, and some pretty pet chickens?<<
Zoos have lions that can’t differentiate between wilderbeast and old ladies – stupid animal that they are. Knowing that it might pose a threat to the general population keepers tend not to gayly loose them around our lanes on their Sunday walks.
Your example of your terriers unleashed clearly illustrates that your dogs are not under control.
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Gosh, isn’t there a lot of mileage in the old chicken & dog debate! As a chook lover I feel for the ironically named Mr Russel (if I was the columnist would not have been able to resist calling him Jack).
Regarding the issue of shooting the offenders (dogs), raised by Neil, I would imagine you will find that this is perfectly legal only under certain circumstances; namely, that the animals being protected are indeed livestock – to be classed as livestock they must be penned, fenced or restrained in some way. Additionally, this must be on private land. Neil No2, in the unlikely event that a chicken does fly over you hedge, you may very well be within you rights to have that roast dinner. However, discharging a firearm in/near public or residential areas is often frowned upon these days. Perhaps you should get yourself a Jack Russel!
I also happen to be a dog owner, having trained and used working dogs much of my life (Spaniels and Terriers, personally), and strictly believe the onus of responsibility lies firmly with the owner. I know my dogs, I do not allow them to get into a situation where they can do wrong. After all, they do not have the intelligence to differentiate between ‘fair game’ or not. I hasten to add, as suggested in a recent post, working dogs are not ‘trained to kill’ – training is about controlling and harnessing a dog’s hunting instincts. It’s all about control.
Finally, if a little off topic, I have indulged in a doggy dish several times whilst in China, and it was surprisingly good. However, the conditions in which they are often kept prior to the ‘coup de grace’ is enough to put most people off. It is fair to say, however, Dog is firmly on the menu throughout that vast country; perhaps if that were the case in Guernsey, people would keep them on leads more readily!
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Jackie – I find your comments most interesting. I must have obviously done something to you at some time that you hold a grudge about? However, the point that the article should have made is that no matter what type of animal you may own, it is YOUR responsibility to protect it against any predators, be they animal or human. With the exception of the great white shark and polar bears, everything else has a predator. So, to simplify, if you have chickens, you have a responsibility to fence them in. In the UK and many other parts of the world, chickens have to be fenced in to protect them against foxes, amongst others. Makes sense, yes?
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Hi Mrs Le Cras. I’ve never met you in my life and know nothing about you – glad we cleared that up.
Does everyone who disgarees with you, in your eyes, hold a grudge?
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Yes Jayne, however, dont you think that the onus should be on the perpetrator of the crime rather than the victim? You obviously have a “the victim asked for it” mentality – please correct me if i am wrong.
The dogs were some irresponsible owners loose pets, they werent wild dogs, bears or great white sharks. The owners should come forward and pay for the damage caused.
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>>In the UK and many other parts of the world, chickens have to be fenced in to protect them against foxes, amongst others. Makes sense, yes?<<
Doesn’t make any sense at all. A fox is a wild animal and those that live in countries where there are know wild predators take precautions.
Still jsutifying dog owners who illeagally let their dogs run amok amongst people’s livestock?
And I quote the GSPCA Mission Statement from your website:
“To prevent cruelty to all animals; to rescue animals in distress; to provide shelter for strays; to foster and encourage kindness and consideration in the treatment of animals and birds, whether domestic or wild.”
You have the floor.
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Jayne – So if you have children, and they go to school where Student Bob threatens them and steals their lunch money, then your children should be locked under the stairs for protection?
Seems to me that you’re just letting the bullies win.
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Mrs Le Cras has gone quiet?
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1 [He blamed the same animals that carried out the first strike and]
Fact: He did not see the animal/s that attacked the chickens the first time let alone the second.
2 [by the size of the bite marks, he believed they were terriers]
Fact 2: A speculative assumption.
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Personally I prefer to keep my dogs on leads at all times, I also ensure they are not able to leave our property on their own. This is mainly for their own safety.
So I find it odd, that a pet lovers with names for their chickens, near an area that is frequented by dog walkers, do not think it prudent to secure the area for their pets safety. (consider it – fire insurance)
Alas, on New Years day, 17 chickens are killed.
Surely after this, one would want to do whatever possible to protect their pets as best as, from being open to attack again (especially, believing irresponsible dog owners pass near by).
I can only assume nothing was done, and whatever attacked their chickens this time gained easy access.
Now where is that ‘fire policy’! Or are we going to hear another story of more chickens killed.
No matter what animals one may keep as part of the food chain or pets, as an owner you have a responsibility to
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Devils Advocate
I’ll second that completely.
If one gets burgled, unless they are stupid, they don’t go out leaving the windows and doors wide open.
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