£1,100-a-head tax hit for all
Friday 6th March 2009, 2:30PM GMT.
TAXPAYERS could each pay an extra £1,155 a year under options being considered to plug a shock £52m. annual gap in States finances.
Treasury announced the bombshell today as it looks at ways to fill a new black hole brought on by the faltering economy.
Several options will be investigated between now and the end of the year with minister Charles Parkinson (pictured) insisting that savings will also be made.
Possibilities include putting an extra 1% on income tax to bring in another £10m. a year, introducing a goods and services tax, which could raise £40m. a year if it was set at 3% – the same as in Jersey – or doubling property tax to raise £12m. a year.
Businesses could also be targeted.
The news comes on the day Treasury set out a £300m. wish-list of major projects departments want to pursue and the need to borrow £175m. to make them happen.
Deputy Parkinson stressed the latest deficit had nothing to do with the department’s decision to back borrowing.
The shortfall caused by the introduction of zero-10 is still anticipated to be between £35m. and £40m. a year, but the department’s consultants predict a further cyclical deficit of £25m. to £30m. a year as a result of global economic conditions.
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Income Tax is the only fair way along with an abolition of these ridiculous government pension schemes.
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Personally I would prefer an increase in income tax to a GST which would cost a fortune to implement and could damage small businesses (who might struggle to shoulder these costs) and even put some out of business. The income tax system is already in place and I doubt it would take much tinkering to increase taxation levels.
Although I am a mid range earner, if the States do decide to increase income tax I would like to see income tax brackets that protects low earners investigated as part of any proposal.
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leave tax as it is, do not bring in VAT, reduce government spending
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Put it all on fuel and parking (with exemptions for public transport).
We can all take the bus as a tax avoidance scheme.
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Put it on cigarettes and alcohol as well. This would have the added benefit of reducing states spending on crime and health as well – wins all around.
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- Reduce government spending and pensions.
- Reduce over-riding bureaucracy.
- Re-employ civil servants where they can improve GDP/capita.
- Revoke ridiculous housing laws.
- Stop crazy capital expenditure projects.
This island’s fragile economy will be taxed to destruction if we are not careful.
If we are going to have VAT, then let it be substantial, otherwise the cost of implementation will lower the return too much. Let’s face it, with the price of travel to Guernsey, there aren’t that many visitors here, anyway, VAT or not, so that can’t be an issue.
And finally, let’s really see how our money is being spent. Remember the promise of ‘transparency & openness’ to us, the taxpayers, when ‘executive government’ was being promoted? Well, the only ‘transparency & openness’ that’s happened has been to the UK/EU over offshore funds. Will they look after us when we have no other industry left? Ultimately our only saving grace is the finance industry – let’s not erode it any further.
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In a time of deep recession all non-critical projects should be put on hold for at least two years.
It is also not the time to increase taxes or introduce new ones.
The States got us in this mess let them get us out of it by reducing cost of government. It would seem to ordinary people that the States have only one objective, to find ways of spending tax payers money.
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“but the department’s consultants predict a further cyclical deficit of £25m. to £30m. a year as a result of global economic conditions”
Anyone could have predicted the shortfall from things such as the rainy day fund, soon to be renamed cyclonic day fund.
It won’t be long before the States use consultants to tell them how get out of bed in the morning.
Still,I suppose you can always blame the consultant if things go wrong.
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**In my last post I meant Government pensions**
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GST is unavoidable but let’s make it worth doing.
I would go for the following package:
1. 10% GST to raise £140m per annum.
2. Raise the income tax exemption limit to £30k to cancel the regressive aspect of GST on the lower paid.
3. Introduce additional credits to cover the objectives of 2 above for those who currently don’t pay income tax as they earn too little bit who would be affected by GST.
4. Introduce an extra 5% income tax as an “Earned Income Surcharge” on earned income above £100k to finance for 3 above. This could at this stage be a temporary measure set for an initial 3 year period until the economy recovers.
I don’t have the figures to hand to make the full calculations but assuming that 3 and 4 cancel each other out, the net effect would be probably in the region of £100m extra revenue,with the burden fairly distributed. Visitors to the island would also contribute through GST, which is a trick we are missing at the moment. Don’t tell me they wouldn’t come if we had 10% GST. They will be paying a lot higher VAT rate than that wherever they are living (except from Jersey at present).
GST is prima facia a regressive tax but it neednt have the effects of a regressive tax if its part of a wider package which incorporates measures for the low income earners. That aspect is vital.
Its collected at source which makes it cost-effective, but if we do it let’s make it worthwhile and bite the bullet with 10% rather than copy Jersey’s pointless 3%. A rate of 10% also allows some headroom for exempting certain essential items, something which Jersey was unable to do because the rate was so low.
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20% flat income tax rate – we are living in a dream world.
I would prefer a 5% income tax rise rather than a half-@rsed 1%. Don’t bother tinkering with all the other taxes and duties – that gets us nowhere and just costs more in administration. But if my arm was twisted then I’d chuck a few more pence on fuel given that we are so attached to our vehicles.
See what the effect is over 3-5 years then consider revising again (hopefully downwards). It is the simplest form of taxation collection and the admin system is already in place.
The thought of paying ££££ extra in income tax isn’t appealing but is realistically necessary. I’d go for a short term taxation boost to see exactly where we stand.
My 2 cents.
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The States in their wisdom decided to abolish a so-called “harmful” tax regime due to pressure from the OECD. At whose expense? The hard working taxpayer.
What we are seeing is the introduction of stealth taxes (the Trotts tax amongst others), the possible abolition of mortgage relief, and hikes in income tax. So what I ask, have we replaced it with? Another harmful tax regime, which penalises those who are trying to make an honest living.
How will the Island’s key-workers cope with these proposals? Many I know are working all the overtime they can just to make ends meet.
Many are forced to take out loans, to cope, only to see the tax benefit on loans taken away. This forces them deeper into debt and poverty. Talking of which, what is happening about the Corporate Anti Poverty Strategy? What has it achieved?
Meanwhile, an income tax cap for the rich is set at £100k. The morality of that decision aside, I’d certainly like to see how many entrepreneurs that brings into the Island and how many jobs that recent decision creates. The States should have set conditions to such an arrangement so that we actually saw a return on that investment as taxpayers.
This is only the tip of the ice-berg. Many financial commentators are now saying we are entering into a global depression worse than the 1930′s. Guernsey is starting to feel the effects.
Guernsey has been addicted to Finance like a drug, and now we are paying the price, and all having to go cold turkey. Whether we wanted the Finance industry or not the hardworking guern has to accept the situation for what it is. Our leaders have prostituted this Island on the high altar of Mammon and now we are reaping what we have sown.
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“we are only looking at gst as an exersize but cant see it being used in guernsey” oh dear , make the banks pay tax ?? or better still charge politicians a fiver every time they say or do something stupid ,that should clear it .
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Well said Jamie, I cant’t believe that hordes of visitors come to Guernsey for VAT savings- You’d have to be buying something portable for over £1k to justify it. Similarly with the housing laws, I seriously doubt that queues are forming in the UK finance world to work in a country subject to so much adverse comment- justified or otherwise.Sounds like career suicide.
I understand it costs the states a fortune to ping pong nurses and teachers to and from the UK.
Harmonisation with our neighbours is looking more and more attractive
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Ask Gordon for a bail out ….
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income tax will not go up as 20& is considered sacrosant. increasing it even by 1% will show it is not which is not the message i suspect guernsey want to send. i suspect it will be vat albeit i agree with some of the posts that if it is to be introduced let us not muck around with 3%, make it worthwhile and then minimise the effects on those it will hurt by raising the tax threshold and offering exemptions for food and the like.
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Its about time that Mr Parkinson changed his spectacles. Stop this ridiculous overspending now, and cut out all the dead wood in the Civil Service. Put the money saved into education and health, and give wholehearted support to the tourist industry. Bring the money into the island, don’t try to wring it out of those of us willing to work and trying to cope with all this facist bureaucracy. Try going to SpecSavers Mr P.
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This just highlights the folly of the Zero-Ten agenda. It was always adopted on the premise that decent economic growth would be a given in the next few years. Then, guess what happens? The worst economic recession for 60 years. Great timing guys!
It is easier said than done to slash government spending or to put off specific projects. Although some efficiency savings could be made, these would probably be a “drop in an ocean” in reality.
Taxes will have to go up but whatever policies T & R pursue, they have to be fair to those on lower and middle incomes. These groups have been hit hard of late so they must not be hit any further. I would go for a 25% rate of income tax on all people who earn over £100,000 and a 5% GST (with perhaps clear exemptions for those earning less than £20,000).
We also need to face up to the reality that we should borrow to fund capital projects. The perception that Goverment in Guernsey shouldn’t borrow at all is unrealistic. Very few people can afford to buy a property without taking out a mortgage. Why should the States be any different when re-developing the runway or a school?
To my mind, the 3 key projects that are on the agenda now (the Airport runway, the development of the mental health services, and the re-building of Les Beucamps school) are all essential and should not be cut back or delayed any further.
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“tiered income tax is the only fair way to distribute the burden, this would have no effect on the low earners would not be inflationary and need NO extra expense for collection and no increase in supplimentary payment by any of the States departments to the less less privileged in this Island
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the islands in a mess..education are not allowed to cut their budget by making efficiency gains by closing schools, they then want to abolish paying for college students which is saving them money each year aka outsourcing
And now Treasury are using consultants (at what cost?) to predict the size of the hole that needs to be filled
Did the consultants put in their figures how many people/businesses may decide to leave the island as the cocktail of costs make it unattractive?
Did the consultants put in their figures how many people will and are purchasing goods now out of the island (I buy all PC, video, white goods online and ship it in)
Tax the rich…should not make any difference as we will all be out of job anyway.
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Raise ETI, simplest and fairest.
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GST….Guernsey Stealth Tax?
Nice to see that the States are considering tax increases before any realistic or vigorous attempt to introduce prudent cost management…we truly have politicians that are addicted to acycle of “spend it all, tax more, spend more”.
I agree with many of the above posts…there’s no need to keep inventing new taxes (that just means more civil servants and consultants to pay/blame) just use the income tax system more wisely and be prepared to stop pretending we are a 20% jurisdiction. Have a thorough audit of what kind of States/Services we can afford and how best to deliver it and then set the tax take accordingly.
Maybe it’s time for a low pay, mid pay and high pay tax banding system alongside some decent efficient management of the States and it’s various services?
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Surely a sliding scale on income tax is better than capping it at £100k and abolishing interest relief.
The effect of removing things like Mortgage relief will (as usual) hit the lower earners who have managed to buy their own property.
Yes the saving is made but by God your making people’s lives more miserable.
The people who are less able to absorb these income deductions are proppping up people who are comfortably well off.
I highly doubt that the real business generating entrepreneurs earn less than £3-500k pa before considering a move to Guernsey. Those earning between £1-250kpa are your regular senior accountants, managers, doctors and lawyers not Derek Coates, Ian Walker, Tom Scott and the like!!
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The world under which the Zero Ten Strategy was decided has changed!
Times have changed and I wonder whether we need to completely re-think the direction we have taken.
Is it right that we should not be taxing certain companies.
It very clear that the financial world has got us into this mess and I for one don’t believe they should be allowed to benefit any further at the cost of the people.
Don’t even consider GST. It’s a total waste of money. Look at the UK, was the reduction of 2.5% worth the cost of the businesses needing to implement it and the government to control it.
We all need to understand that the next few years will be difficult and if we want Guernsey to survive for the benefit of all we may need to pay more.
BUT lets have some joined up thinking here.
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These are not easy times, but it is comforting to know that Charles Parkinson’s input will be more valued this time round.
Of course, when the zero ten argument was in full swing, it was oft said that GST would be the get out of banfrupcy card kept up the polititians sleeves – just in case.
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Gordon Brown is printing off £150,000,000,000 which will in turn create inflation of sterling. Our currency is directly related to sterling. Why should we accept devaluation of our currency without benefit.
If the States of Guernsey essentially require more money, print it. The only complaint could only possibly come from England but to be fair we should be able to increase our money supply pro rata to pound sterling.
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*******It’s very very simple********..
STOP SPENDING MONEY WE HAVEN’T GOT.
We’ve made our bed with zero 10 and we have to lie in it.. YOU GAVE AWAY THE OUR INCOME FROM FINANCE.. LIVE IT
Stop crazy capital expenditure projects for two years until we can get finances back in order… for pitty don’t run the Islands any futher in to the red
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The world is entering possibly the biggest depression ever and Guernsey decides to go on a massive spending spree!I feel like i,ve been burgled and can,t cancel my credit cards.
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I agree with many of the posts in regard to GST, we do not need to give birth (and a very painful one at that, ask our Jersey cousins) to a new tax, with staff and administrators required to manage it eating into the taxes collected.
Raising income tax is the most cost effective way of raising the revenue needed. Every Island based business and dweller is familiar with it, it will need no more resourses to manage it, a simple matter of adjusting exsisting rates and formula.
Surley to all right thinking people the best way to go in times like these.
So we can look forward to GST in a shop near you by end of 2010!!
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Our leaders fail us people in favour of attracting the mega rich to raise income?
Things have not worked to plan. They rarely do but never will when fools are looking for intelligent options. Because these fools have got things exceptionally wrong. It is us that is being expected to bail out their ineptness.
They are the fools but we are the mugs!
How can this be?
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I’d just like to say “Hi!!” to all those who took the time to tell me that finance has paid for our roads, healthcare and my education and that Guernsey is a far better place for it.
On a less serious note, can’t we just have a second tax bracket? Say 40% for those earning above, say, £40k pa??
Finally, Russ, thanks for your two cents. Unfortunately, at todays fx rates, that’s only about a penny, which still leaves us with £51,999,999.99 to find.
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Has nobody in the States of Guernsey heard the phrase “live within your means” ?
It’s a concept that most people are familiar with.
If the island can’t afford everything on their wish list, they’ll just have to prioritise the projects and do them as they can be afforded.
Or am I missing something ?
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I am in favour of higher direct (income) taxes in Guernsey and have been for about 30 years ever since Guernsey began attracting ‘high net worths’ that lacked a social conscience. I’m even more in favour of them now that indirect taxes are rising to subsidise the finance industry. Surely the finance industry can see that if Guernsey cannot afford the infrastructure needed to support the finance industry that the finance industry will not be supported. Simple logic in symbiotics.
We are constantly told that we need the finance industry because it provides us with what we need. But it’s evidently not doing so.
So Lyndon next time you’re having cosy lunch with the high fliers in the finance sector have a whip round, after all it’s in their interests.
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Well if when our hard working Politicians go on these fact finding missions they didnt stay or travel in luxury this would save a fortune
Increase Social Security payment thresholds so the rich start paying their fair share
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No need to worry about a thing! We have enough States members (some in senior positions) whose own businesses have failed spectacularly so their experiences will, I am certain, see Guernsey Plc through these troubled times!!
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I personally think this is ridiculous!!!
The government got us into this problem – they can sort it out! They should’ve sorted it when it first became a problem – and now they’re trying to get us to pay for it! That’s so unfair!!
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Do not borrow money, it is not your money that you are expecting to pay for your borrowing.
I agree on the above posts, hold back on spending. Take stock and review again once you know where the money is and what has been saved.
I was brought up, if you can’t pay for it save for it! Then and only then buy it.
However the general population has to accept that they can’t have what they bleat on about until the cofers have pennies in them again. This means stop asking for rediculous requests like free perscriptions and Doctors etc. that was on the news today. Well I can tell you they are not free in the UK, I pay £150 a month! for council tax, some of that money actually pays for local health provisions, i.e. Doctors, oh that is on top of my National Insurance contributions too. So please stop looking outside for examples of what you think you want, it is not all that it appears to be. Realise that you are in fact in a good place right now.
You have a choice, make it a wise one. I could see the news tonight a forth coming angle that there is going to be people who will use this situation to ‘push’ needing to increase the population to pay for everything.
Do you really want that and all that will entail?
Just have to convince the States not to spend money they do not have, and the population to tighten their belts on what they think they want!
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It is all Lyndon and his cronies fault that the states are in this mess. I have not met anyone yet that was for the 0-10 strategy. It is about time they scrapped the 0-10 and put the so called, “much needed” expensive projects on hold for several years.
If they bring in all these ridiculous money raising ideas no visitors will come here at all and certainly no new workers will come to work here, in fact I would think many workers will start leaving the island to live in cheaper places like the UK. I have certainly thought of it in the past.
They think everyone earns £50,000 or more a year, they are all off their rockers. They all think they have won the lottery, having all these millions of other peoples money to spend on any extravigant luxury items they like.
States members caused this black hole they should be made to pay for it out of their own pockets. Forfiet all their salarys until Guernsey is back on it’s feet and may I suggest they pay £1000 out their own pockets for each time that each states member wants to stand and speak in a states meeting. There won’t be so many hair brained ideas then.
I think this would raise £52 million each year and without the public having to contribute a penny more, problem solved.
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Do:
1) Remove the £1 subsidy from Airlines.
2) Up the target for reducing states spending from 2% to 10%. Start with: How can T&R have a budget 3 times the size of the PSD, do they deliver 3 times the service to the public?
3) Publish departmental budgets so the public can really see where the money goes. (if it is published, make it easy to find)
4) Up fuel tax (2 birds with one stone and you could even argue a case for joined up government !! – that would be a first)
5) Have an independent review of final salary pensions in the states. (Did I really suggest an independent review)
6) Issue the bonds and kick start the capital spending with a concentrated effort to employ local tax paying labor.
7) Kick the GREC to deliver a return rather than say that RE is a few years off yet still spend money.
Don’t :
a) Increase any cost to home owners / buyers – at least during this recession.
b) Increase consumer costs during the recession (GST)
c) Tamper with corporate taxation during the recession, giving business another excuse to leave whilst many are reviewing cost saving initiatives.
I could go on ….
The ‘real’ Jamie
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Ahhh Guernsey voters a 52 million black hole just has just been found, the question you should be asking yourselves is how come this vast amount has have just found and what can you the voter do about it at the next round of elections… that is if you still have elections? or have they gone because they get in the way of the Finance Industry.
You all better prepare for further bad news coming your way!
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I have just been looking at coming over for a few days to visit. With the prices been asked I really don’t see the point when I can get twice as long for half the price in sunnier climes. The island has for a long time been working itself into a corner. The Labour government has looked to close doors on offshore operations whenever it can. You can be sure that they will continue as they are desperate for any cash they can get their hands on. I have witnessed some terrible overspends by the States which continue from one capital project to capital project. Heads needed to roll for that but it will continue until they stop covering up for each other. These major projects that they are now considering are the products of neglect. Putting up income tax and applying a GST will just be more nails in your coffin. I love the island but I hate what is been done to it in the name of money/progress whatever you call it.
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Putting up income tax for the middleclass in a recession shows a absolute lack of understanding in economics.
Extending the income tax threshold over 100,000 is the best and easiest method with least negative impact on the economy.
It is acceptable to put up taxes for some luxury items that the lower and middleclass can take reasonable steps to avoid. Petrol is an easy target and the administrative procedures are already in place. Next on the list should be tobacco products and alcohol – both luxury items which are avoidable. A GST at this time should be thrown out the window.
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Why is everybody so quick to accept that these new taxes are unavoidable? Huge savings are to be made in the public sector of this island and these should be made BEFORE any new taxes are imposed. Recently we have had guaranteed savings/revenue generators declined by deputies who are already looking to preserve their salaried positions.
Simply… close the 2 primary schools and sell the sites for needed housing, close schools music service with no real loss in every childs education. If you need to build a new school build a school and not a theme park ( do our children really need another climbing wall or swimming pool?)Relook at student loans but use impartial reviewers not those who currently have multiple children benefitting directly from the current system. Seriously look at the level of administration staff, why does education need a ‘communication manager’? This is just education what about all the other ‘managers’ and the buldings they under use.
Paid parking…just get on with it at a sum that achieves its goals.
Who comes up with these figures for major works? Surely these huge sums can be negotiated more aggresively.
Save first spend later !!
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Its all very well saying tax high earners more but because we are in that situation, we have to fund our two children, at the same time, through uni at a cost of £30,000 pa. Not one bean from education and no tax relief either. So I think we contribute already – yes it is our choice to pay for them, we do not want them to have debts of £45,000 each. Oh and we have another child at one of the colleges through a scholarship which some members of the states and public would also like to deny us. Just wait until the finance industry goes down the pan and there will be no high earners anyway so even less tax.
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Need £50m for a “shock shortfall” in the budget.
How about the States go on a shock spending diet?
The best resolution to the States spending problem is recognising the States spending orgy is the problem.
Cut your empire building not our living standards
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A ‘shock’ £52m gap in States finances eh?
It sounds as if Treasury has been using the same spreadsheet used by the banking industry that caused the current global financial crisis in the first place.
The key phrase to note here is the £300m ‘wish’ list.
Well wishes don’t always come true do they?
As for zero-10, I think someone needs to be held to account.
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It’s all very well coming up with half baked ideas now – the States set this up in 1999 when they started depleting the capital reserves.
They were warned at the time, but no one would listen.
As for an immediate fix, sack the finance minister and chief minister and get someone in who says ‘no’ to things that Guernsey can ill afford.
I stated last year that there should be a prioritisation model set up, and one allegedly was, however we are yet to see any criteria.
I could run this island with my eyes closed and still make the economy turn over at a decent return.
Perhaps some of those who live beyond their means and own planning and builders companies are looking for some more back-handers…..ring any bells?
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Agree to comments by Guern abroad. I am one too. I think the council tax we pay is brill. I get free doctors and hospital stuff. I was recently in Guernsey and they wanted £55 odd quid to see a doctor! The states do need to stop spending and they do need to make their budgets public, we all saw what the UK politicians spent their budget on (flash london flats to use for conveniance).
The tax bracket. I do think the sliding scale is a good idea but it is punishing those that have worked hard to earn more. 40 000 a year in Guernsey is not a lot, maybe a small increase but not 40%. Go to higher increases at 60 000, then again at 80 000, then at 100 000 and so on. THis way the average earner will not suffer as much. Really were else can the states get money from?
Petrol…..why?
Paid parking…that wont make a lot!
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The States have three choices
Raise millions in extra taxes to pay for all the pet projects they have in mind…
Borrow millions to pay for all the pet projects they have in mind…
OR reduce the number of projects to fit in with the money available each year
I wonder which solution they will go for ?
May I suggest
Limiting pet projects to one per year using local firms employing mainly local labour
( including R G Falla )so that we get back 20% of the labour cost in income tax
Stop using expensive consultant’s reports as a prop to get pet projects through States debates and use the savings to employ a top class negotiator to stop us being ripped off on both small and larger projects…
350K to knock down 30 yards of Cobo sea wall !!
8 weeks to repair 50 yards of roadway at College Street !!
85 million to resurface the runway !!
Somebody’s having a laugh !!
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Paul – If you’re going to squander the children’s future, why stop there? Let’s create some sweatshops and send the young of the island to work sewing pretty beads onto dresses for a few quid from Primark. Seriously, you’re on an island that paid £52m pa to hop into bed with finance with zero-10 and now you want the children to pay for it to save yourself a grand? Doesn’t that make you feel kinda dirty?
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The idea that Guernsey has enjoyed unparalleled success as a low tax jurisdiction, offering excellent public services and a high standard of living for all, is really quite mythical. Now, at the first signs of real pressure on the system, we can truly understand the task facing the Treasury. We are accustomed to things we cannot afford, yet the things we actually desperately need are now bracketed with the luxury we can no longer afford. This is an abject failure of previous governments. This talk about “borrowing will cost our children” has already happened. We have clung to this ideal that allows ‘head in the sand’ politics because ‘we’ve been doing alright’. No thought to the future, no thought about eventuality. What is the contingency fund now? A way of delaying the inevetible and plugging up debt for a few years. Is that what the ‘good times’ were for?
So all the talk about not taxing the strongest in society a bit more to ensure the survival of the whole, because it ‘would cause calamity’ has proven an utter nonsense. The systems in place to aid the rich; education, health, legal provision, business rules, will haunt the next few generations. The likes of R. Perrot mocking the naysayers of ‘the left’ publically only highlights the entrenched privileges just a very few have enjoyed.
Taxes will increase, the poor will suffer the most, and for what exactly? To continue the very same thing as we are witnessing now.
The poor will buy time for the wealthy to benefit from the eventual upturn in the general markets, something that has always been out of reach for them, leaving them ever more desperate to borrow to remain on the island and enjoy what they have paid for, year on year.
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Our ETI has been kept artificially low by the contribution from, in the main, tax receipts from the finance industry. Now they have gone, apart from reviewing zero/10, the only sensible option is increasing ETI to at least 25%.
After we have dealt with the 66mill structural deficit, we can then move on to discuss CApex projects.
Personally I would put an embargo on al lcapex projects for 2-4 years. Lets fill the first hole before digging another.
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>>Somebody’s having a laugh !!<<
Big business at the taxpayers expense.
The Scot from HSSD is still trotting out a familiar misconception. ’3000 people employed in the building indiustry’. This may be true. What is not true is that the Capex projects keep those 300 employed. Anything but. It usually employs, Rihoys, Fallas, Norman Piette, Ronez and all the big boys; many of which employ or contract out to cheap foreign labour.
See any patterns forming?
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Just seen David’s 4 point plan (March 6, 2009 at 12:05 pm)
I seems a well thought out measure to deal with the immediate problem.
T and R should, at the very least, have a look at the proposals. They might prove more attractive as the figures materialise.
The one concern I have about GST, is that prices in Guernsey are already too high. Visiting last year was a shock after UK prices, where the VAT is already in the price. I suspect that the GST in Guernsey would simply be another 3% or whatever added to existing prices.
David’s suggestion of raising the income tax exemption limit to £30k seems worthwhile considering.
So far as essential works are concerned a well thought approach should benefit the economy by providing work, taxes etc.
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The majority of Islanders (including people like me who work in finance) were, I beleive, against Zero 10. Our representatives in the States were railroaded into voting for this ludicrous scheme. Those of us who were against it at the time take no pleasure ion saying “I told you so”.
Zero 10 was introduced to keep us competitive with Jersey and the Isle of Man and to comply with EU directives which we had didn’t have to comply with.
I assume those other islands are now in similar financial difficuilties – why don’t we sit down with them now and all agree to a fair level of tax on indiviuals and businesses who operate in those jurisdictions. Reverse Zero 10 now.
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Yet another case of the Guernsey states wanting to screw over the locals – It makes me sick that proud Guernseymen are being driven out of our own island by the idiots that run our government… Many of whom are not even Guernseymen / women.
The States are more concerned about looking after rich Johnny Foreigner rather then trying to help the struggling local… As much as it pains me to say it as a proud & staunch Guernseyman – but I am already looking at other areas in the world to raise my young family – as a average earning local I feel as though we are being pushed out of our own island by a group of complete & utter buffoons that we trust to run our island – it really is a joke….
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Old wiseman say
“If you haven’t got it. DON’T spend it”.
We’re (Guernsey)running out of money cuz of zero ten.. This years it’s 65 mill they need. What’s it going to be next year and the year after.
We need to stop spending and take stock.. until we are more sure of our finances.. We as an Island need to tighten our belts as painfull as thats going to be it needs to be done.
This island can’t live on credit
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Heres an idea – raise tax revenue by increasing the working population by 2%
????? Is the idea really that unpopular when faced with the alternatives ????
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Stephen
You are right re. the potential effects of a GST, but of course it will also have the effect of identifying those greedy retailers who are already effectively charging it and retaining it as an extra profit margin. They simply won’t be able to get away with it any longer, and nor should they.
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This whole sorry saga makes the decision to throw out paid parking look even more ridiculous. The States are not really in a position to turn their noses up at what would have been additional funding that they badly need.
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Why should this financial eliterate mob,who are mainly the same as the previous ones of the last 12 years, be allowed to take another £1,100 in taxes.
Are these not the ones who wasted loads of money, on all the capital overspends, that are not fit for purpose.
All of these, we still do not know exactly,the final cost, we still have to pay,or where the overspend money has gone.
In real life no bank, would loan money to a business that has, behaved in this way.
They should have the decency to have a referendum, before committing us and our children to perennial bankruptcy.
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Rosie,
Paid parking was required to fill the £3m black hole of subsidising the bankrupt, unpopular, antiquated Bus service. The States very wisely decided against charging islanders (motorists) for a car park we’ve already paid for.
That leaves the States to make a similar wise decision and cut the £3m gravy train to the bus company for belching round the island with white (green) elephants empty of passangers and blocking up the road network with Latvian labour. Its loooong overdue the Bus Co stood on its own two feet (or just go to the wall where it deserves to be).
We cannot afford propping up public transport which has been bankrupt since WWII and has been living off the back of motorsists. Deputy Falla, billed as ‘the golden boy’ and a businessman did sweet f.a. to address this gravy train. When will Carla McNulty Bower do something???
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Trouble is this has been coming for a long time. I’d suggest even before zero ten.
“Normally” in times such as these the proverbial belt could be tightened and we’d ride the storm – however because of incompetence and short sightedness we are in a position where much of the Islands infrastructure is falling to bits.
May I suggest either:
- scrap zero ten or
- make the business of government more efficient and cost effective (i.e. rationalise the civil service, end bus subsidy, etc etc)
- increase income tax by bands and spread the burden to higher earners (as suggested by earlier posts).
I’d also end the situation where the supposed super rich have a tax cap – let everyone pay their way fairly.
I don’t have too much hope – as the current “Executive” appear totally incompetent!
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JohnnyB
Are you trying to give Rosie a heart attack ?
Didn’t the States decide to put up the petrol tax to fund the bus fleet instead of a parking tax ?
They could do a lot worse than putting up the tax on alcohol by between ten and twenty times.That would reduce the Police work by about the same amount and we could save on Police pay and pensions.
Here’s another.. States debates must cost more than £1,000 per hour,so how about fining deputies who lose useless time consuming amendments by more than say 30 votes at least £500 a time.That would give time for more sensible discussions on the important matters.
Oh, I think I’ve just defeated that argument
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I know a retired civil servant with a pension of £48k per annum. Nice.
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JohnnyB
Let them eat cake, eh!
I think you’ll find that the worship of the car is the outmoded belief. The bus service is not ideal, but then the greedy motorists don’t want to lose their monopoly on something for very little and since they are the majority, heaven forfend taxes are raised to pay for something better!
Already paid for parking? What? Through 20% income tax? Are you sure? Next you’ll be saying that you’ve paid for it through your license or other such rubbish. Free parking is a throwback. That land needs to earn revenue. People are quick to jump on the ‘let’s axe pensions for the public sector’ but never think about their own contributions in more than a ‘hands off it’s all mine’ perspective.
Petrol may not dwindle out in your lifetime, but it will in the next two generations, if serious thought has not been made into investing into more socially aware transport very soon, we’ll be back walking with wheelbarrows.
Incidentally, a years commute to town from the west coast and back cost me about £150. The bus was always full and I saved a packet on not owning a car. That’s hardly regressive is it?
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I agree with Melec – STOP spending our money willy nilly and STOP all capital funding now. Any business going through hard times would abandon major projects and conserve in times of trouble. It is about time our government learnt how to run a business properly. What are all the financiers doing? Why are we paying them to create more taxes for us?? We have a right to say how our taxes are to be spent – so please stop all capital funding now – conserve – and maybe we will all follow suit.
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David – er that’s Illiterate – not eliterate….. kind of takes the sting out of your comment somewhat.
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Seriously though, why do we have a government? i cant think of one good thing they’ve done in the last 5 years. Lets abolish ours and join the UK proper. They at least will fill us all with false hope and then let us down rather than just letting us down from the start.
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Ben – posting 11.00 “Join the UK”
If we do have to throw the self governing towel in, I’d rather we went back from whence we came, France. We would have to say that we are very sorry for the last 800 years having sided with those English fellows, but it won’t happen again. Please be nice to us.
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Fast Robert – I think you will find your Soviet panacea is the outmoded belief.
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Concerned Guern – Shall we start a petition, or even better, get me a ticket now!
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Gilthead
Yeah, yeah with the Soviet thing. Yawn. Tell me how I’ve managed to inspire you to bother to type that and stay fashionable.
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FR – Inspired, no. Fashionable, certainly not.
However suggesting that I worship my car…well nearly…
But by using my generally omnipresent deity it avoids having to share a bus with the self righteous, the tree hugging, the opinionated and the blinkered.
No personal slight intended or implied.
Sorry must fly – I need to reach my inner karma in my metal god – but at least I’m supporting the unbelievers in their atheist omnibuses and contributing towards the orifice noir. And not making it any bigger.
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>STOP spending our money willy nilly and STOP all capital funding now.<
Agreed janet. There should be an embargo on all building projects until we have found a way to reduce the size of our annual deficit.
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Roger Perrot writes a truly jaw dropping article in today’s paper – he claims that what makes Guernsey so super is the low taxes, the fact that people have to look out for themselves, and that the States spend no money on the local people.
Should we actually be proud of the fact that we have such a pathetic excuse for social welfare, and that our schools are falling down, our runway full of holes, and our sewage pumped out raw to sea? If the answer is that all this makes Guernsey great, I vote we ask to become part of the UK pronto.
Still shaking my head in disbelief.
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Yes Belinda
He reckons that tax rates have been set to just afford what we need. Hmmm. So that’ll be a deficit and a few hundred million of capital projects we can’t afford then.
It was truly a piece written to stir the four pint pundits but from a perspective of obscene luxury.
No matter that the kids come out of school barely literate and the cost of living is prohibitive to an increasing proportion of the population.
He reminds me of one of those characters from the Muppet Show that pass judgement from the balcony during the stage scenes.
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Sorry Sarnia Pat, you missed my little joke.
If you read all of it , like l am sure you have, you would get my gist.
Would anybody be called financially elliterate, after 12 years of this, capital spending fiasco.
Also Zero-10, which the Jersey CM is saying was a mistake and Peter Roffey on BBC, said that our CM, was to enthusiastic in his promoting of it.
It appears to me that big as he is,that Peter Roffey almost admitted he made the wrong decision.
He and the other 23 should have listened to Charles Parkinson, and we would be 100 million better off.
Time for them to get on their hands and knees and apologize.
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Belinda
What Roger Perrot is confirming is the view that low tax centres screw the locals by taxing them to the hilt, and giving as much of the money as they possibly can, to those who live outside of Guernsey.
I wonder where most of his clients live?
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It’s all very well for Perrot to go on about this, that, and the other, but when does he have anything to say about normal, working families? Too busy flying his plane, helicopter,whatever. He’s so far detached from reality to care, safe in his little hidey-hole in St Saviours, chuck me £20m or so and I’d be similarly smug……
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As an immigrant choosing to live in Guernsey rather than being born to the privilege can I just say that it isn’t the taxation, the social infrastructure or the politicians that make Guernsey such a great place to live…it’s is the people who, despite the taxation, infrastructure and politicians seem to be a very sociable, pleasant and enjoyable bunch of people to be around. It really gets my goat when some clueless politician claims that they’ve “got it right” because so many people want to stay here…utter tosh!
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to JonnyB (March 10th 1:53)
Having massaged my heart back into life….. (thanks for the concern Ray!)
As the financial meltdown continues, and more people struggle to pay the bills, one way to reduce costs is to leave the car at home and travel by low cost public transport. Families might even decide to reduce the amount of capital sunk into a fleet of cars and and manage with just one. However, for many people, the frequency of the bus service means that it is not a viable alternative.
If the States do not find the funding to considerably improve the frequency of bus service, then they will force everyone to continue using there cars and absorb the rising costs of motoring….. that might be alright for you, but it’s going to make the cost of living very hard for some. 1.2p on a litre of fuel is not going to be nearly enough to do the job properly so is the worst of all outcomes…. it raises the cost of living without providing the solution for anyone.
Paid parking would have been another tool in the box…. another way to raise much needed funds… and they certainly need every little bit.
The bus company should not have to ‘stand on its own two feet’. It provides a public service that is a benefit to the whole community, whether you use it or not. It enables affordable travel around the island for everyone, irrespective of health, wealth, age or social circumstance. 50 people on a bus can mean 50 less cars on the road and 50 less cars looking for a car parking space…. that’s just a couple of the benefits…. there are plenty more.
You use the adjective ‘belching’ presumedly to infer that the buses could be less polluting. I would agree. Even more reason why the States needed the additional funding so that they could start to plan a service incorporating lots of small electric buses that would be more suited to our small roads.
We are already 7 years behind on the funding that should have been raised through paid parking. Delaying it further is nonsensical considering the state of our finances.
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Rosie – in all honesty, in the current climate the bus company hasn’t got a snowballs chance of getting any further funding. Good job too.
On the contrary our beloved leaders should be encouraging us to drink, smoke and drive everywhere in Hummer H3′s – all that lovely tax!
Obviously not drink and drive at the same time because, when caught, that would reduce revenue. The drink driver would then have to use the buses and be a further drain on the coffers.
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shelve all capital spending unless it is made possible by way of a states loan. Reduce the costs of running the Civil Service and consider the possibility of merging all or part of their functions with the Jersey Civil Service . Both islands have exceptionally high costs per capita of the population so it would be a huge saving not only now but in the future. I am convinced that the Chnnel Islands will have to be much more closely linked to survive the erosion of our finance sectors by jealous and zealous U.S.,U.K.,and European Politicians. Raising taxation at this time will make the situation worse. There will be a sharp increase in unemployment this year and it will not be confined to the finance sector. The States will THEREFORE HAVE TO PAY OUT MORE MONEY. We must look at ways of creating jobs for Guernsey residents . I have banged on about the fact that our biggest asset is the water that surrounds us. We should be building a new marina and a large drydock for yachts of up to 120 or more feet in length. The States should not be involved other than to allow private enterprise to get on with the job. What has happened to the Longport plan? Why not set up an honarary sub committee of businessmen to review the Marine possibilities
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Dear Rosie
I think the following needs to be said and I believe what I have to say applies to a very large part of the community.
I love my car. I will use it even if the fuel is doubled in price. I will sacrifice almost anything to keep running it.
I work at St Peter Port harbour and now pay £500 for my port parking permit.
Paid parking will raise a bit of money I agree but cut back in car useage? nah,not unless the charge is swinging.
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Don’t think the states are going to be have until they have bankrupted the Island… we have to stop spending money like water
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@mick – why? What does your car possess that makes it so fantastic? I truly feel sorry for you. I own a little van – I use it once a week tops, and chose it purely for its utilitarian value – I shop only once every one to two months month so there is plenty of room in it for my bulk buy, I only recycle once a month, so again, it gets well loaded up for that.
It is tragic when people say “I love my car”. It is sadly though an exprsesion of all that is wrong with our society. I love my children, I love my partner, I love my parents. I don’t “love” a car. Nor do I “love” expensive gadgets, foreign holidays or designer clothes. Too many people have their priorities terribly wrong.
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Belinda – in your opinion!
Have you ever considered a Quaker lifestyle in the American Mid-West?
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If people ‘loved’ their cars so much, they wouldn’t feel the need to replace them quite so often, hmmm?
What has considering a car to be a tool and not part of the family got to do with religion?
People are funny!
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Gilthead – last time I checked this was all about people expressing their opinions. Just because I place more value on the people I love than cars and tvs I should go and become a Quaker???? You just prove the point that i was making.
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Nothing really FR – just an analogy of the puritanical views being expressed.
Glad you found it “funny” though.
Now I must put a staple in my thumb just to remind me that all pleasure is evil…OW!
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Belinda – no offence meant! Your point is of course valid but so is Micks.
I’m sure he doesn’t love his car in the sense that he wants to have babies with it…
I “love” my boat for the freedom it gives me – and I “love” taking my loved ones out in it to share the pleasure.
Curses pleasure again – where’s that staple….
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Gilthead
Ten out of ten for the staple joke.Now that WAS really funny.Still smiling five minutes on.
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Gilthead
Because the quality of driving in Guernsey is top notch? Oh the pleasure of mounting pavements! Ah the excitement of worrying about if the car will fit in the driveway! Hedge lined lane – take evasive action – drive in the middle! Increase revs – whoah – was going 40 there – phew!
It’s a rollercoaster, I tell you.
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I can understand the boat – it’s a totally different kettle of fish.
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Rosie… sorry mate I think you’re in cookoo land the poeple of Guernsey don’t want paid parking.
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Melc – Most people probably don’t actually want to pay duty on their fuel, or their alcohol, or pay rates, or tax for that matter!! At the end of the day, we all have to contribute what seems like a huge amount more to fill this ever-growing black hole. A “user-pays” answer seems eminently sensible to me.
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People who are anti cars tend to be rich, dinner partying, wine quaffing fans of Dido!
My idea of pergatory
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Jackie
Or educated beyond narcissism. Nothing wrong with expensive, shiny toys, it’s just that cars in Guernsey seems a mismatch of aspiration versus use.
Is that the same as purgatory?
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My problem Gilthead, is that I have yet to hear a cogent argument that would refute the points I make in my earlier email. Glad to see though that you agree driving should be taxed.
Turning down the funding of paid parking was pandering to populist opinion and an example of short term politics. Guernsey has to reduce its car use… we either plan for that, or we have it forced on us by changing circumstances. It seems to me that it would be more intelligent to plan for it. We are not in a position to turn down much needed funds.
Mick… I know that there are people who take huge pleasure in their cars. I don’t know why people always presume that I don’t enjoy driving…. I’ve certainly never said that. But when we use our cars, the benefit we enjoy comes at a price that the rest of Guernsey has to pay. The pleasure we get brings with it some really negative points for Guernsey….. therefore it should not be a form of transport that is encouraged. Obviously we need to use our cars for some journeys, but it is selfish of us to think we should be able to use our cars for every journey, despite the negative effects….. just because we like driving.
Jackie… I am not ‘anti-car’ per se…. I am anti the effect that cars have. They are devilishly useful bits of kit when used appropriately…. sad thing is that in Guernsey they are used to the exclusion of all other forms of transport and in the process have ruined, and are still ruining, the island. The negative consequences of too much car use is steadfastly ignored. I presume from your comment, that those who insist on using their cars are not ‘rich’… i.e. the ones least able to afford to continue the habit.
Melc …. turkeys wouldn’t vote for Christmas either.
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Rosie
Are you saying that Guernsey has a traffic problem beyond the morning and evening ‘rush hour’?
I believe many St Peter Port office workers think that is true because that’s all they ever see from Monday to Friday.
Can I ask them to take special note when they are driving anywhere next Saturday. What traffic they see on that day is very much how the traffic runs on a weekday other than during the two ‘rush hours’.
If that is to be classed as an Island traffic problem then we might as well go back to the 1950′s
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Ray,
Yes… I do believe that Guernsey has too many cars on the roads. Too often journeys are made by car that could easily be made by bus, bike or walking…. but as there is no incentive to leave the car at home, it rarely is. I’ve lost count how many people have said to me that they would not dream of going out on the roads on a bike, or allow their children to, because the roads are too busy with cars. Having friends to stay, we had to return their bikes to the shop on day 2 because they found our roads too busy for cycling….(the cycle shop said that it was the norm to have bikes returned early for that reason.) I have friends and family who come here to visit us, but say they would not come here otherwise because Guernsey has urbanised itself too much.
Our pavements are very narrow, so walking is not the pleasure it could be because cars drive by too fast and too close. I have a theory that there are many drivers out there that have never experienced the roads from the perspective of a pedestrian or cyclist, so they have no concept of how threatening it feels to be overtaken by something travelling at speed and too close.
I was at the first of the Guernsey Tomorrow workshops last summer. There were approx 9 tables of 8 people. We each had to say one thing that we found ‘ugly’ about Guernsey and then each table had to say what their table had come up with. The one phrase that was common to each table, was ‘too many cars’. I helped at another of the workshops… and the same thing happened there. I was interested to see on the news recently a report of some school children doing the same workshop, and the camera rested on their word for ‘ugly’…… again it was ‘cars’.
So…. it is not just my perception.
But even if you totally forget my own personal preference for an island less dominated by cars…. there is another imperative that is making it hard to ignore. Oil is going to become very expensive. No-one knows for sure when Peak Oil will happen (or wether it has already happened) but there seems to be a growing consensus that it is imminent. Rising oil prices will not only effect the cost of our driving but every aspect of our lives. Developing our community so that it is dependent on cars is foolhardy….. suburbia is no longer an ideal worth chasing (if it ever was). Living is going to become expensive and needing to run a car is going to make it worse than it need be. We will still need to travel around the island….. we will still need to use our cars…. sometimes. But we need to find more appropriate ways of travel for the majority of our journeys. That will mean greater use of mass transit, cycling and walking.
On top of all that, we have the small matter of needing to reduce our CO2 emissions by 80% by 2050 and in the mid term, 30% in the next 11 years (by 2020)…… a huge undertaking….(probaly only achievable if we start today) Vehicles account for 20% of our current CO2 emissions…. the largest single contributor and one area where we could make a big difference. The latest reports indicate that these reductions are the minimum we have to achieve if we are not to run the risk of catastrophic climate change in the lifetime of our children.
You comment that we might as well go back to the 1950’s. I would rather go forwards, but taking with us, aspects from the past that we can see work well and that are appropriate for a sustainable future. I would like to embrace future developments and ideas that help us to achieve and sustain our high quality of life while reducing our impact on the environment. My fear though, is that through inertia and a refusal to educate ourselves about the implications of our actions, we run the risk of going back to the medieval ages… in which case, the 1950’s would be a walk in the park!
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Rosie
I don’t know if you have to work for a living or if you are one of those non tax paying kept women Fast Robert and Belinda are always on about.I would guess at the latter since you seem to have so much time to attend workshops and persue your ‘we’re-all-doomed ‘hobbyhorse.
Unfortunately for most of us (and the planet)we have to live right now in the present time.I’d love to be able to encourage more people to use the bus,cycle or their own legs but we just haven’t got the time.
If I need to go to Martel’s Nursery for a bag of peat how can I take the bus ?
Even if the driver let me on with a bag of peat my forty minute return trip by the car I have in my driveway would probably take half a day by bus.
The idea is good and honourable but the practicalities of life without the car is just not workable.
When oil really runs out I think most people believe that someone will have invented another better form of energy
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Ray – you do spout some rubbish! Rosie has never said we have to stop using cars altogether. Just that there are negative consequences to using cars. What is wrong in trying to reduce car use? I guarantee that every car driver makes some non-essential journeys as was proved when it snowed and everyone sensible who needed to get to work, walked.
I get away with using the car incredibly rarely, despite having two jobs, two young children and even attending Guernsey Tomorrow and other such workshops. It just takes a bit of careful planning and foresight.
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Belinda
Didn’t you suggest some time ago that we should get rid of all the entrepreneurs and make up for the tax loss by growing our own vegetables?
How can we do that without peat ?
I MUST have my peat !
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Heres my idea to fill the black hole,raise income tax to 25% min for all non locals,or charge them there country of origins rate,which ever is the greater.Not only would this raise the pennys in the purse,it would also show some countrys we are not a tax haven,but an island that there citizens would rather be, instead of their own country.
Local means born on the island,to at least one local parent.
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With motor fuel already much dearer per mile in Guernsey when compared to the mainland what do our brains suggest, why, let us put iy up by another 20 pence per litre.
Consider what would happen if this is the final straw and all car drivers leave their cars at home and travel by bus. Firstly not enough buses to cope. Cue more use of the taxpayers money to provide a private company with the vehicles. Will this come out of the duty on fuel that the States will no longer be receiving?
If the States are to be seen to be serious about trying to deal with the situation how about a 50% head count reduction in the number of civil servants. And in spite of the need to economise they are still adding to the head count. You will have noted that nearly all the advertised vacancies are States jobs.
Also cease paying the States members. In the days when the island was well run the members were not paid. I am fully conization of the the good intent that was the thinking behind the payments but it has badly back fired. We now have a pretty poor bunch supposedly guiding us. The are a few who have failed in a variety of fields and now sponge on the overburdened taxpayer and to compound the issue by following a tax and spend attitude.
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Ray…
It would help if you read all of the posts to which you are responding. As Belinda has pointed out… I have never said that we should never use our cars. My original post (March 12th 3:44) said that both driving and the cost of living are going to rise considerably and for many, leaving the car at home would be one way to reduce costs. However, unless the bus service was up to the challenge, then for many it would not be an option and thus they would not be able to escape the rising cost of motoring.
You behave as though mentioning the global problems, to which we will all be subjected to sooner or later, is some sort of conspiracy to just stop you using your car. The truth is though, that we are all in this together and it would be best to take our heads out of the sand and start to educate ourselves about what is going on. Then we can see how our community needs to develop in order for us to ride the coming storm and emerge out the other side as a robust community that is still able to function. Short-term populist policies will not do the trick since, as you have shown, there are still too many people who steadfastly refuse to find out what is happening…. particularly if there is a possibility that it might require a change in behaviour.
As I said in an earlier post, I have yet to hear a cogent argument that refutes the points I made in my earlier posts….. just a lot of squealing about cars being central to our present way of life….. I don’t deny that, but it does not invalidate my argument….. simply strengthens it.
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@ Ray, 11.14 am. Simple answer is “no I didn’t” – take Rosie’s advice and try actually reading posts before responding.
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Rosie and Belinda
Sorry you two but I tend to quickly get bored by long nagging posts
I genuinely tried to watch ‘An Inconvenient Truth ‘on two separate occasions but fell asleep both times… mind you I did the same with the subsequent TV programme rebutting most of the scaremongering unproven guesswork.
You both have strong opinions which is fine and I’m sure that if you and others continue to nag enough you’ll eventually get your way.. then of course you’ll ratchet it up to the next level as campaigners always seem to do.
Good luck but I’ll probably continue just to skim your posts in the knowledge that they will be ‘the same old same old’
In the meantime your very sparing use of the motor car probably counterbalances my more medium use so all is well after all.
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Ray…
Which seems to be a tacit acknowledgement that your argument is based on zero research.
I am sorry that your short attention span rules out any possibilty for an informed debate. Makes a great excuse for remaining ignorant though! I doubt the next generation will thank you for that…. but hey ho…. it seems that the head in the sand attitude still prevails with some.
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Rosie
Please Google ‘China and India pollution’and then come back and convince me in a few short sentences that by not fetching my bag of peat in my little car I will save the planet
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Ray …..
The world has a population of 6 billion (+) people and each person, as a unit, is responsible for emitting a certain amount of CO2 and other pollutants. Gases (i.e.CO2) and pollutants are no respecter of national borders…… it makes no difference where each of those 6 billion people live. The important figure is, what is the average CO2 emitted per person in each country. A chinaman’s contribution is less than half of ours, and an Indians is about an eighth of ours. http://www.china-profile.com/data/fig_co2-emissions_3.htm
Furthermore, it is worth remembering that the reason China’s pollution etc looks as bad as it does, is because we have sent all our dirty manufactoring work there. That has made the UK figures look better than they are and China’s look worse. It is our consumer lifestyles that is creating the demand that these factories in China are satisfying.
This blogg was not about this though. It was about how there is trouble on the horizon and we would do well to prepare for it….. firstly by educating ourselves about those problems and then by implementing strategies that will enable us to
make the changes necessary in the way we live.
Sorry…. can’t find where I suggested to not use a car to collect compost.
Tried to keep it as brief as I could!!
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