States to track all your travel
Monday 16th March 2009, 2:30PM GMT.
TRAVEL plans and the personal details of every holidaymaker, business traveller and islander entering or leaving Guernsey will be tracked under new ‘big brother’ security proposals.
The package, which has alarmed civil liberties groups in the UK, is part of Treasury and Resources’ capital prioritisation report – which plays down the scope of the supervision.
And a member of the Home Department has accepted that the Billet d’Etat details are skimpy.
News of the extent of the clampdown was broken by The Telegraph over the weekend.
Anyone departing the UK and the Bailiwick by land, sea or air will have their trip recorded and stored on a database for a decade.
No reference is made to that in the Billet, which simply claims it is not an option to do nothing – but says nothing to justify that.
Home Department member Sam Maindonald (pictured) insisted, however, that the island had no other option,
She admitted that its brief proposal in Treasury’s capital prioritisation report in which it asks for the money to spend on an IT system to handle the scheme, was short on detail.
‘This is not something we are choosing. We are being forced into it, but for a good reason. If we don’t take it on, you won’t be able to travel from Guernsey,’ she said.
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Hey ho…what else can the States find to spend money on? ‘Short on detail’ eh..no, just another example of the woolly headed ideas prevalent in our present government. How about using the money for this IT system to improve the education of our children, or adding to facilities for further education in the island?
And first on the curriculum should be common sense.
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We may have no option but to implement this system but that does not exempt our government from disclosing fully what the system is. They should have the courage of their convictions and provide full details. It does nothing for trust and open government to try and play something down.
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When will people in Guernsey realise that independence, even automny is nothing but fantasy in our current global society, we dont want this but we have “no choice” does this sound like an independent decision!?
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I may well have missed a major story here (as I don’t get online every day), but can someone point me toward the article that might give the heads up on what this is all about? The column above goes around in a circle without actually explaing what this is all about!
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No option why- because USUK say so?
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Deputy Maindonald is watching you.
Scary.
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The world will not be made any more secure by tracking every person’s movements.
The world’s governments will however have gained yet another small element of control over our lives at the expense of our civil liberties. Knowledge is power.
I fear that Big Brother is becoming a reality and I hate the thought that every moment of my children’s lives will be monitored, recorded, captured on CCTV and stored in some government database.
I think Sam Maindonald is wrong. Guernsey still has autonomous government and we can, if we choose, say NO to this.
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The “terrorists” win again. We are becoming such a totalitarian state or federation of states, that our people live not in fear of being blown up, but in fear of the legislation enacted in the name of anti-terrorism.
So, no more stand-by fares at airports?
Additional levies by Flybe and the like (£30 a flight perhaps) for the additional paperwork?
So now if I go out fishing or sailing and I have some difficulties, I must turn down any assistance from French sources, lest they tow me into a French harbour without the 24 hr notice? Would that apply to Jersey and UK too?
Great stuff, eh?
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Don’t be fooled by this, they already do it but now they have to tell you they are doing it..
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My goodness what shock. Yes indeed a real shock.,
Why might you ask, or not; however the shock I got when I heard that Hitler wasn’t dead, but in actual fact resides in Guernsey with some of his henchmen. All under different names of course.
What a cheek to say they will monitor travellers-
The truth is they cannot do the job that they were elected to do, so they come now with all these Ideas.
Oh I know the idea comes from the uk, well lads and lasses now we should tell them -politely of course B….r off, we’ve had enough of your Whitehall rubbish, you can’t manage your own country, so don’t come the hab dabs here and ruin our Island. GO NOW
Then of course this stupid idea of having electric tags on boats, for that is what it is, nothing less; and I always thought it was criminals that were tagged. States of Guernsey., do the decent thing and resign en-bloc if not; I can see an uprising by people who have had enough of these jumped up politicians, useless lot that they are.
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I don’t believe that we “won’t be able to travel from Guernsey” without this. As I understood, it is the carriers (the airlines etc) who have to supply info the the UK border agency or some such organisation. Why do the States of Guernsey want to collate and keep all this data as well?
Please could someone say where the law is, if it exists, that says that this is necessary?
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Whatever next !!! So what ever little money we have left after taxes, mortgages. rate increases.. parking fees.. if we have any left that is an nice break away will no need to be monitered ?? Why… ? Lets have cameras in our Deputies homes.. lets see what they get up to ?? Stop spending money on lunches out..trips to China & India (what the h*ll for ? ) they are all getting fat at our expense !!!
Deputies years ago never got paid.. they did it voluntarily… not get paid £30k plus !
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>>Deputy Maindonald is watching you.<<
Only part time though ;)
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A curious aspect of this delightful new aspect of monitoring is that it appears to emanate from the UK, yet all travel, including that to the mainland of Europe, appears to be included.
Is France interested in our movements? We haven’t heard. So why is there an implied monitoring of movements in that direction?
It is extremely worrying that our Home Dept. appear to think that they have a right to plan to control our lives without our involvement. The preparation of a proposal in a Billet is not sufficient to satisfy the needs of a democracy.
At the risk of being thought a political deviant, may I suggest that most people expect the States to move carefully towards minimal government at (particularly in these times) minimal cost. Few electors, when putting cross to paper, actually expect their elected representatives to try to control every aspect of their lives, with resultant costs expanding without limit..
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All part of creating jobs and work streams. Seen something on the TV? Quick create a work stream and look busy!!
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Will Royalty and lords and other dignitaries also be monitored and written in a little book.
Or will it be be the usual tripe- They do these Journeys to boost the UK,
Maybe? But the people pay for it; pay double in fact. firstly because they are kept persons, ( a stigma at one time) then again when they go ‘walk about’
What a disgraceful way to show in these times of recession.
Now we’ll hear “Oh it was planned long ago” so what? so was peoples money in the banks.
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The 24 hour notice requirement is totally ridiculous – no standby travel allowed; no emergency travel for illness, death in the family, etc.
What about people who don’t have internet access?
I HATE what this stupid, stupid society is turning into.
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It is obviously regulator compliance which means this is non-voluntary and the States has to oblige in line with International Regulations – the options would be the face sanctions from EU partners, or, as is alluded to, run the risk of people being unable to travel to and from the UK from Gsy – hey presto, no tourists, no business.
I don’t see the problem – people who do nothing wrong have nothing to hide; in any case, Guernsey is so small that the disaffected locals amongst usually know more about who comes and goes than any official – so what would be my question?
Perhaps the States should consider applying to Brussels for an EU trade agreement or EU payment for the implementation of this mandatory process given the islands relatively small budget for cross border security?
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And who has thought about these people knowing we are out of the island. It only takes 1 person to be dishonest and you could have your house broken into!!
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We are now seeing the consequences of the EU’S open borders policy which has caused so many imimigration probems for the UK.
Couple that with the terrorist threat to the UK it’s easy to see where the UK Govenment is coming from.
Of coarse these problems are no very apparent on the Island which makes the local reaction understandable.
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Darren’s suggestion of applying for an EU grant to help defray the expenses has some merit, except that we are not members of the EU and it is being done under UK legislation (eventually, one supposes).
The idea that innocent people have nothing to fear is remarkably optimistic. These schemes are in practice administered by low paid clerks who are only human and make mistakes.
The police who knock on your door in middle of the night are not going to pay attention to your assertion that no one in your family is a terrorist. And it goes on from there. The truth is that innocent people have more to fear than the guilty.
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The innocent of course have nothing to fear from these new requirements, but we have nothing to gain either. All it does is add more inconvenience to our travelling lives. Like most of the other “security” initiatives of the past 8 years it won’t stop the dedicated determined, dare I say “professional” terrorist but it will cause even more inconvenience to the travelling public. Such policies are not actually based on risk but on their ability to be implemented. The greatest loss of life to terrorism in the UK since 9/11 took place on a bus and a tube train. Because it is wildly impractical to collect the details of every bus and tube traveller, or search them and their baggage, there is absolutely nothing in place to stop the events of July 7th happening again. Because they can record the details of every air passenger, and search their baggage, we face ever increasing, pointless and futile restrictions, whilst the terrorists quietly carry on plotting something else that these restrictions can and never will prevent.
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Toby – great post. I travel back and forwards to the UK alot unfortunatley. I see the security checks are pure theatre. Just more jobs, more inconvenience and the determined terrorist can just use other avenues. They cannot possibly collect bus and tube details as you say – the fact that airline and ferry passengers can be monitored does not mean they should be. There is a useful thing that can ensure that the innocent traveller is not burdended – it’s call passport control.
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If Deputy Ronald McDonald insists on acting like a clown, talking like a clown and legislating like a clown, Guernsey residents can only treat her like a clown.
What is the point of these laws unless it is to watch and inevitably restrict peoples freedoms of movement?
Give some pen pushing monkey (imported under license from the UK) in the States Politburo laws and a role and they simply won’t be able to resist using their stupendously nannying powers to justify their very existence.
How will this work? If you’ve left the island for more than your alloted time what will they do, make you back-track through space and time? Or maybe ‘ground you’ and make you spend extra days in Guernsey next year?
It’s none of the States business or the international creeps the States is bending over backwards to please in contempt of its local citizens privacy and freedom of movement. Deputy McDonald and her ilk is turning this island into a clown show already with its immigration (I’ve never seen more immigrants in Guernsey as the past 2 years). All on ‘local’ licenses living in ‘local’ flats. It’s a shambolic farce.
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I’ve said it elsewhere,but I’ll say it again,I live on the Continent and I travel widely around the EU members.Mostly you never know you have passed from one country to another,and to be stopped and asked to identify yourself has never happened to me.So if you have adequate laws to safeguard your country from illegal entry,and these laws are actively enforced,whats the problem?
O’h yes,at times of terrorist threats,and maybe football matches(unbelievable,or?)there may be checks,but thats in our interests!I will be travelling to UK this year,and you can bet I will be asked to identify myself!
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