‘Students’ views had no impact’
Wednesday 18th March 2009, 2:30PM GMT.
GRAMMAR School students who campaigned for their teachers to be given new housing licences did not influence the decision, minister Dave Jones has said.
He was speaking after it was announced that three out of six teachers would have their licenses renewed.
But he responded to the campaigning of proactive students, who organised a Facebook group called Save Teachers, Change Housing Law, by saying the actions of pupils would never be taken into consideration when the department made such decisions.
‘The idea that the students are going to influence Housing’s decisions is wishful thinking to be honest,’ he said.
‘All housing licence renewals are decided on their merits. On occasions, licenses will be refused for all kinds of reasons – for example it might not be warranted or there is not a shortage of teachers in that subject nationally.’
Deputy Jones said teachers were allowed to stay for longer if the Education Department could show there was a shortage of a particular type that was already in the island.
Grammar head teacher Jeff Smith said he would have to recruit teachers from the UK to replace the three who had to leave the island.
Deputy Jones said the States had decided that, where possible, Housing should allow UK teachers to remain in the island for only five years.
‘Where it is proved that there is a real shortage, nationally and internationally, of teachers we already have in the island we would consider at that time whether to renew their licence,’ he said.
‘But we may have Guernsey teachers who want to move up from the primary sector or we may have university students who want to come back after training to get a teaching job in the island.
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What a shame Dep Jones said that. It kind of defeats the object of him being in PUBLIC office dosen’t it? He and the rest of the States bodies are answerable to Jo Public and therefore they need to get rid of their cloth ears and listen up. Good on the students. Keep campaigning for whatever cause you think valid. Without speaking out loud nothing will ever change.
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaah, isn’t that nice of him to say. Well done Deputy Jones, what a lovely man of the people he is. He’s a bit like Tony Benn. In a way.
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I agree Sarnia Expat.
Here i was thinking this was a democracy? he himself states that it would be “wishful thinking” that he would be influenced by the voice of the people? the concerns of the public would “never be taken into consideration when the department made such decisions”.
Who does this man think he is? he is forgeting who he is employed by. The states need to take a good hard look at this man as this clearly demonstrates that he is not fit to hold public office. About time he had a wake up call.
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Why should a politician react to every petition or front page headline? Facebook has even got a petition entitled ‘Is Facebook Stupid?’
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I agree! It is a shame that Deputy Jones seems to misunderstand that the future of Guernsey will now have yet another reason to leave our shores and never come back……good one Jonesy!
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LOL of course he wasnt!
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I cannot believe the arrogance of the man. for a so called man of the people Deputy Jones has put back the faith of young people in the States twenty years. He has made it quite clear it does not matter what people think or say it will have no effect on the outcome. I for one would like to say well done to the students for trying to do something about their fears and future, and hope they will not be put off voting in the next election.
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What an arrogant twit! Pompous little man – have some respect for the future electorate of the island, and more than that, have some respect for the common man who makes a stand. It’s called democracy. Mr Jones, it does matter what people think, who on earth do you think you are?
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Ha, I find this completely the same as he was during the Deptuy’s Forum at the Grammar School. When in there Dave Jones was completely arrogant, and always went on about how youth were a problem, then contradicts himself saying youth are no longer a problem. He dodged questions, and talked about how he was a ‘naughty boy’ when he was younger.
The ‘funniest’ thing i found out about the entire thing was that later on in the day within the staff room, a teacher who is a friend of my family and some of her friends were in there, along with Andrew LeLievre and Dave Jones, and they were talking about how they were the only good states members and the rest were rubbish. The teachers concurred that the man was pompous, and even a lot of the parents and people around where i live thought the exact same, and wish they had never voted him into the states.
And as for ‘Why should a politician react to every petition or front page headline? Facebook has even got a petition entitled ‘Is Facebook Stupid?’’ Why the hell shouldn’t they respond?! They’re meant to respond to public views, that’s their job, to take the publics interest to hand, not just their own views!
The man seems to only be interested in his own needs, and the funny thing is that the teachers were all refused extensions the first time they tried, but then suddenly after the campaign a bunch of them were able to get an extension. Funny that eh?
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Deputy Jones in ‘out of touch complete arrogance’ shocker. In yesterday’s hard copy of the press he states “i think Mr Smith, who is newly arrived in Guernsey, needs to look back historically”.
When Jones recently supported a colleague over racist remarks and his suitability to remain in office, was he himself looking back ‘historically’ at the pain and suffering that racism has caused?
Comparing Jones to Benn is an insult. Whatever you think of his politics, Benn was a thinker, not a reactionary, populist, aggressive blusterer.
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Seems to be “Kick Deputy Jones day”!!
Just thinking aloud, isn’t it better for decisions, even when changed on appeal, are made on merit, and not in response to demand of an affected group?
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Stephen John
When isn’t it “Kick Deputy Jones day”?
He loves to slag people off but when there’s any intention of comeback he comes over all hurt and accuses them of being a ‘nazi’ or something.
Bryn has it spot on. To compare a rabid right wing protectionist, small statist populist to Tony Benn is nonsense.
As an aside, I found Matt Waterman’s letter comparing the EU startegy with Hitler’s overview utterly distasteful. So the EU want to exterminate anyone with ‘impure’ genes? Too many chemtrails in the system perhaps?. I can excuse Jones for dallying with the likes of Nigel Farage, as charismatic as he is, as there is an ‘white van man’-ism about it. But to have a go at our future generations for wanting a say…?
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Bryn,
Please don’t tell me you thought I was being serious when comparing Benn to Jones.
I know it’s the lowest form of wit and that.
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Toby you are being slightly melodramatic.
A few signees on a website do not equal ‘public opinion’.
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I agree with Dolly, Bryn and others. I came on here to type in the quote “But Deputy Jones said: ‘I think Mr Smith, who is newly arrived in Guernsey, needs to look back historically” but have seen that Bryn has already done so.
Mr Smith may be “newly arrived” (a few years?) but that is Dave Jones speak for “he’s not local; not one of us”. So bl**dy what! He is the headmaster of the Grammar School and knows far better than Mr. Jones what is in the best interests of his students and his school.
I despair at the calibre of most of the States members/ministers.
I applaud the actions of the Grammar School students for starting this petition on Facebook.
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‘Toby you are being slightly melodramatic.
A few signees on a website do not equal ‘public opinion’.’
Those ‘few’ signees are still members of the public, and therefore it equals a public opinion. You weren’t the one having to sit in the Dputy’s Forum having to listen to Jones talking about how he was a ‘naughty boy’ when he was younger, and listening to him and Lyndon Trott dodge all the questions aimed, and completely go off on one about how youth aren’t a problem, then suddenly contradict themselves saying that we are.
You were not sitting there having to listen to the man, so how the hell can you suddenly say that a few kids’ opinions in a facebook group do not matter.
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Sam,
Why would I have any reason to think you were not being serious?
I am obviously glad that you were not.
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Toby I haven’t said the opinions don’t matter. What I said was that a facebook Group is not ‘Public Opinion’. Public Opinion needs to be a majority view.
Wind your neck in son. ;)
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Jackie, it obviously is a public opinion as the people in the facebook group are members of the public. And anyway, if you haven’t noticed a lot of the public agree with this facebook group.
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Public opinion is a sentiment shared by most people. Emphasis on the word ‘most*’; just incase you missed it.
*most = majority
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Hi Jackie, if you want to bring majority vs minority into this then look at the opinions on this article. This is about Dave Jones needing to “wind his neck in” and listen to the people and everyone knows it except for him.
Dave Jones is the one who is acting like a paranoid “control freak” when it comes to these teachers and students concerns. Why else would he make such open arrogant comments? I think that his statement is worse than the whole golliwog incident. I am hoping that he reads these responses but as demonstrated and stated by himself he runs his office like a dictatorship so its wishful thinking that he would take aboard anyone elses concerns – let alone Jo public.
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Jackie, I hope you realise those few signatures you refer to are in fact near to 800? That is just the people on Facebook, not taking into account anyone else who agrees with it.
Students are the voting public, deputies are supposed to listen to what the public say – democracy, so dept. Jones making a statement saying he doesn’t is incomprehensible.
Surprisingly, the voting public does matter.
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I think the point Dep Jones was making was that Policy is policy and no amount of kicking and screaming will make a difference to a policy based decision. Dont like the guy from a public image perception – dont know him personally so cant comment – but i do see what he was trying to say. Surely you would all vilify him if he turned around and said that if enough people make enough noise about a decision then his department will back down and make “special” exceptions?
Maybe its just easy to bash the deputies as they are an easy prey? hey ho!
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SDG,
Do you actually have any knowledge of how politics in Guernsey works?
May I politely refer you to mooring fees and paid parking? You can work out the rest.
Deputies per se are not easy prey, blustering, inadequate, public servants who openly admit they ignore their public are not the ‘hunted’, just imbeciles.
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Bryn
What you are saying then is that there is no point in having policies, it should be put to public vote on a case to case basis?
We elect the deputies to set policies and ensure that they are adhered to.
Yes they do not always help themselves and often show complete incompetence – but who voted this incompetence in to power in the first place?
I can only assume that the pitch fork carriers will be standing for election next time round as they clearly know how to do a better job!
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SDG What is needed is a flexible open-minded approach to policy – especially policy which impacts to immensely on peoples lives. Indeed, any well written policy should take into account the changing needs of the people. Dave Jones has no excuse not to listen to the electorate. His dogmatic fundamentalist approach does not belong in a democratic society.
We “voted him in” as you say, however, democracy is not just limited to the vote. Politicians must also continue to listen to and represent the people day to day. If they cannot fulfill their first and paramount role -to listen to the people- then their entire role must be put to question.
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Not aimed at anyone in particular, but what I really enjoy is the inconsistency of people – there is a constant moan on the forum pages about influx of workers and foreigners spoiling our island – then all of a suddern the hymn sheet gets changed and we love the foriegners (because they are teachers presumable as opposed to bank workers or manual labour) and are fighting for their right to stay-priceless! certainly makes me chuckle!
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>>policy – especially policy which impacts to immensely on peoples lives.<<
The policy only impacts on people’s lives when they don’t like the policy.
Which part of 5 year licence did these teachers not understand when they took up the post? I hope none were maths teachers
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SDG, I certainly didn’t vote for Dave Jones to become a minister, or even a deputy. A major flaw in our ‘democratic’ procedure.
I don’t own a pitch fork either, do you have a spare?
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Jackie,
“Which part of 5 year licence did these teachers not understand when they took up the post? I hope none were maths teachers”
Perfectly put!
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Bryn, of course i have a spare – pop round for a glass of wine and we can discuss the pros and cons of democratic society and who we can vote for next time round – in fact even better then that – we can discuss our policies for when we stand for government!!!!
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