It’s all about the family, says Steere
Thursday 2nd April 2009, 1:00PM BST.
UPBRINGING is to blame for the worrying number of youngsters who are abusing drugs and alcohol, according to Education minister Carol Steere (pictured).
She reacted without surprise to a survey by her department that revealed 300 of the island’s 16- to 25-year-olds were not in education, employment or training – the so-called Neets group.
‘The results are not surprising when you look at their habits, family background and everything else,’ she said.
‘The younger we can engage those children and their families, the more society can reap the benefits for the future.
‘We need to find out why this is happening so we can eradicate the problem altogether.’
The survey has shown that this group of youngsters are a cause for concern, with drug use rife, low self-esteem and psychological problems. Seventy per cent have had contact with the police.
It also found that members of this group, which makes up one in 25 of all 16- to 25-year-olds in Guernsey, were highly unlikely to have parents with A-levels or university degrees.
‘It is about breaking these cycles for the future so we avoid these things happening again,’ said Deputy Steere.
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She has a point but Government policies have created half wit idle parents who in turn will produce more of the same.
The only chance is to invest more in Education and Sport. Getting rid of all government type gold plated pensions for past and present holders would pay for that.
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I am surprised that the number 300 is as low as it is. I would guess that the real number is a hell of a lot more than this. I agree with Carol Steere that the children’s upbringing has everything to do with how they turn out later in life.
The biggest challenge to overcome is the fact that currently fathers can and are alienated from children’s lives through nothing other than mum and dad not being able to reach an amicable agreement with regards to access.
The children are the innocent parties involved here but are the ones left with the life long damage. I know many fathers that were and still are good role models towards their children but don’t see their children simply because the mother won’t allow it.
Mothers are given automatic custody when a relationship breaks down. This gives them the ammunition to use the child or children as a weapon for future negotiations.
It is a sad state of affairs when a perfectly good and caring father can be alienated and the mother can hook up with the likes of the baby P murderer. Maybe it will take a scenario like this to force some change within the current system.
Children need both parents. A mother and a step parent selected by the mother is not a winning formula and mainly never will be.
A step parent likes the mother. The children are just a by-product of the overall package and often are made to feel that this is the case.
What is needed is a place whereby parents that can’t see eye to eye can set down the children which will allow both parties to have access without having to meet face to face which inevitable leads to negotiations and further arguments. A place where mum can drop off. Dad can pick up and bypass mum and dad having to come into contact with each other.
Some women see something as little as a new car as reason to demand and expect more maintenance for the child or children. If their demands are not met then access is denied once again which leads a decent father with two choices. Engage with a lawyer and all the expense that this entails or walk away and suffer the emotional pain in silence.
It is so sad that the same pain is suffered by the children and nobody gives them a second thought. Least of all the mother or our government.
These scenarios are now being replicated with children having children. Most turn to drink and drugs as a way out of the mistakes that they have been born into.
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Paul – I agree with much in your piece. I fear however if the roles were reversed and the father got automatic custody, the same problems you mention would happen albeit in the reverse.
You did however hit the nail firmly on the head with the simple statement “children need both parents.”
How do we encourage this? Clearly the simple answer is to encourage families to stay together as much as possible.
How is this achieved? Among other ways I suggest a greater promotion of marriage and steps to make divorce less of an easy option. I appreciate this isn’t possible in every case (especially when abuse is involved) however divource is currently so easily attained that people will often rush into marriage (and subsequently children) far too quickly in the knowledge that, at least legally, there is an easy escape route.
Sadly, the legal process might be quick, the emotional damage to both parties, not to mention the children, can take far longer to repair and the backlash on society is huge – as Deputy Steere rightly asserts.
Apart from cases of abuse, divorce should only be permitted after a lengthy period of mediation where reconciliation is emphasised and encouraged. Perhaps if divorce wasn’t so easy to obtain couples would work harder on their relationship and find a solution to their difficulties, thus saving themselves and their children untold heartache.
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Paul Le P
A simple solution would be for the states to employ a mediator to take out the heartache of the situation from the children.
Love and hate are so closely linked. A couple can be on the same road going somewhere. A few problems down that road can make one or even both want to take opposite routes.
Marriage is not the be all and end all to any situation. If you love then all well and good. If you hate each other then there really is no benefit in staying together. Least of all for the children’s sake.
Both parents need to be recognised as having equal responsibility. It takes two to create a life. It should be the same two that have equal input into how the children are brought up.
This is where the mediator could work wonders and take the good from the bad. A pair of parents often only concentrate on each others mistakes and go around in circles with she’s this and he’s that scenarios.
People make mistakes in life. Children should not be in a position to be used as features in teaching another a lesson for whatever reason.
Guernsey is behind the times when it comes to recognition for fathers. Mothers can and often do choose their children’s destiny. Women often act today with little thought for tomorrow. Children will be around tomorrow and the next day and always will be.
I know many men that are a waste of space and would rather prop up the bar than spend a day out with their kids. I also know many others that would love to spend that time with their children but due to the mothers lesson teaching tactics they find themselves in the same bar drowning their sorrows at the loss.
The moment a couple with children enter into going their own ways a mediator should be the first thing to sort out the emotional needs of the children.
In every break up at least one side will be left feeling bitter and angry. Generally this anger and bitterness is passed down to the children and sides are formed. Women, generally, are good actresses and know that by turning on a few tears the sympathy vote will win the day with regards to family courts and the like.
Marriage does not stop a couple that were once in love hating each other due to a few mistakes. The saying that nothing is forever is so true nowadays. Children are though and it is this that needs to be recognised for the good of all concerned.
A step parent will rarely be a good role model for another persons child. Some are and hats off to the few. Things need to be sorted and quickly before a sinister situation like in the UK occurs locally.
Family values are, sadly, pretty much a thing of the past now. Even sitting down around a table at meal times is becoming antique. Education into the importance of family values can only be a good thing.
We have a culture with some thinking having a baby will set them up for life. When they experience the reality they feel bitter about what would have been. They have made their beds but are not happy when it comes to sleeping in them.
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Also agree with you Paul.
C,mon this is a small island, its not like parents are moving miles away from each other and wont be able to take the kids to the same school or same activities that they used to? There is no excuse for one party to have primary custody and the other part-time. Unless there are prevailing abusive circumstances then it should be automatic equal access – save a lot of court fees, parental disputes, and emotional distress of the children at the same time.
I also believe that a lot of the problems stems from the grouping together of states houses into estates. Groups of kids (and adults) who have not had the best start in life (from no fault of their own) congregate together and because of this may start to believe that being permanently unemployed, taking drugs, being abusive and continuously whinging about life is “normal”. The states could prevent this problem by selling off all “estates” and replace them with randomly distributed properties throughout the island.
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mmmm…..i didn’t think the article was about single parents i thought it was about under achieving youngsters who have uneducated parents. This parental role model being blamed for the youngsters doing JACK all.
IT is not all about the family……thats just an out! I come from a working class family. My parents both smoked and had working class jobs, I was never really encouraged to stay on at school more than that. I left just before my 15th birthday with NO qualifications and started working in a dead end job ( although I did achieve a lot in it, it was still dead end). No one in my family had gone to university.
I chose to break that chain by going back to night school, then to college in the UK, then university. When I gained a 1st class degree and then my parents wanted me to continue onto a Phd (they didn’t really know what one was). My whole life followed its path because as I kid I wanted the things others had (new bike, holidays abroad…).
How to help: The States have to help break that chain, the kids have to want to break it them selves. How are they funding their street habits. My whole life followed its path because as I kid I wanted the things others had (new bike, holidays abroad…). Get some unis and armed forces in to do shows……get them interested. It takes a carrot for a donkey to chase.
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Excellent comment ANDY, but I’m surprised that as yet no one has taken up the Education Ministers very questionable survey comment that most of the offending youths parents do not have A-levels or University degrees.
In fact, I think many will find the survey comment offensive. The way I see it, Carol Steere should be advised that it does not take A-levels and/or University degrees to make good parents, in fact far from it. From what I have seen in life most of the best parents come from hard working down to earth average folk who happen to have their heads screwed on the right way.
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I agree with some of the past comments, in principle, but running alongside all this, is the fact that the authorities no longer allow a parent to chastise any of their children, Don’t get me wrong here, in no way do I condone the severe beating of a child, but if my child is ever abusive to me or his mother, I will smack him, hard, on the back of the hand, it has taught him to show respect to his parents, and that is what’s lacking these days, youngsters do not respect any one who is older than they are, they have been brought up in a world where they think they can do what they like, and say what they like to any one, and because of the do-gooders stopping parents bringing their children up properly, they are now in the mind frame that they are almost invincible. And that’s the problem.
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How can you blame parents you know nothing about? There are children of perfectly “good” families that use drugs,alcohol and cigarettes and bad behavior.
There are many reasons besides parenting that cause children to have problems,mental, physical,genetics.
For somebody in such a position to outright blame parents is ridiculous. Carol Steere needs to spend some time reading and researching before saying such things to the public. I feel sorry for the parents that do their very best and get blamed for the chidren’s problems.
Also, no matter how a child is raised at some point it has to be accountable for itself and can’t spend it’s whole life blaming others.
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Pat – how would you define “good” families?
Many judge families and parenting simply by material provision (e.g. nice toys, new clothes, high level education, private music lessons etc) however that misses the point. Some children of wealthy families grow up emotionally dysfunctional because their parents think that they can bring them up by simply throwing money at them, rather than investing their time in their children. In comparison, others from poor families grow up well rounded because their parents have understood that time and love are immesurably more valuable to a child than material goods.
Expat80 makes an excellent point that it doesn’t take a university degree or A Levels to make good parents. Upbringing is far more than providing the latest toys or the most expensive education, it is providing an environment of security, significance and acceptance for a child, where love is provided unconditionally and not dependent on achievement.
I also agree that when a child reaches a certain age (I think those in the 16-20 age bracket meet that criteria) they have to take responsibility for themselves. There are definitely cases where a good kick up the backside is what is necessary, not molly cuddling. However, there are other cases where young people have been emotionally and psychologically broken to such a degree that a greater degree of help is required.
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Dave Help – correct me if I’m wrong but I do not believe corporal discipline is illegal in Guernsey. If it was, you would be publically admitting a criminal offence by your post!
Yes. it may be frowned upon by the more liberal elements of society and you may even be called names but I’m sure you handle a bit of stick to defend your right and responsibility to raise your children….
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i was on drugs when i was a teen and it was nothing to do with my mum or dad i was hanging round with the wrong crowed my up bringing was the best an i now have two children who will be brought up the right way the same as i did.
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I agree that it has nothing to do with the parents, I was bought up in a states house, my mum just worked in a shop and my step dad worked in a warehouse, my brother is a stray and does drugs and has no job but I however stayed on at school, went on to college and now I am working in Funds.
I think I had a brilliant upbringing, as not spoilt or anything I just new the love was there from my mum, step dad and dad, althought my parents did not get on it didn’t affect me or my brother and sister. We new they did not get on but they didn’t show it in front of us.
If it is down to having a step dad, parents not gettin on etc how come I didn’t turn out to be like my brother?
I agree with Kelly I think it’s down to the crowd you get into and not your parents. Whether you live on a states estate or privately owned house and are spoilt you can turn out either way.
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Kelly, I agree that upbringing doesn’t prevent someone from getting in with the wrong crowd or making foolish decisions.
What a good upbringing from loving parents such as yours does provide however is a good foundation of core values, as well as loving support during those times when we make foolish decisions and mess our lives up.
They also provide help and support to escape from the downward spiral that inevitably comes with bad influences.
Many of these young people sadly do not have such support, so whilst I agree that the responsibility lies with them, there is no doubt that a good upbringing can make a huge difference to the future direction of a person’s life.
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I think the main problem with kids these days is down to a complete lack of respect for anything!!
This has all come down to a lack of punishment in the house and the school. The PC brigade has a lot to answer for….
You will always get lazy kids who do not want to work for a living. Making the dole too easy to claim will just turn them into lazy adults….i think it is called the circle of life!
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>>i was on drugs when i was a teen and it was nothing to do with my mum or dad<<
Good for you, taking responisbility for own actions. Like you, I don’t blame my parents for any of my teenage actions.
Isn’t it a strange thing that it’s the adults that blame the parents, yet the children take responsibility.
Dip stick survey last night over dinner with friends tended to find the same. We ALL took responsibility for what we did. Seems only the social engineers are looking for the parental boogey man or woman.
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Having just read Carole Steere’s article regarding the use of drugs and alcohol amongst our young people, I take huge offense about her comment that this is somehow related to parents not having A levels or University degrees. I have two children and I myself am one of four. Neitheer my parents nor I have ever had A levels or University degrees, however I have never taken drugs or been dependent on alcholol. My two children both have University degrees and have professional caareers and they themselves have children of their own. Incidentally I was also brought up in a States House and my view is that these young people who have low self esteem and turn to drugs or alcohol for support could be to escape the stigma that is attached to States House people in Guernsey. We constantly hear about them being the needy and only the needy should live there. A starting point would be to re-educate the members of our society who continually frown on those who live in Social Housing, and for the media to play up rather than down, people who live there. Believe me I know what that stigmatisation feels like.
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Again Carole Steere has got people’s backs up. Why doesn’t she just back off and investigate before she opens that huge mouth of hers. I’m not surprised Children are lacking in education, one minutes she wants to close two schools, albeit they were infant and primary, doesn’t matter, they are the children of the future and if at a small age they are angered by such a crepid woman then she only has herself to blame when it comes to children completing an education. I don’t have any youngsters who are school age but I do have a grandchild growing up and if I can I would support him in any way possible to see he gets a good education.
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Carol is one of the left’s social engineers. Born of the Roffey’s and his ilk. Busy bodies who want to interfere in every aspect of the public’s life. Interferers.
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I normally cant stand Steere, but on this occasion I agree with her.
This is an absolutely massive problem in the UK. Where, I daresay that an underclass of society is forming precipitated by lazy parenting, broken homes, no discipline and no accountablility.
Best thing is, that these kids are now having kids themselves (at 16-17) which will bring another generation, and repeat!
Fortunately in Guernsey we have our small size as an advantage and if we can identify and work with these people on a case by case basis then this problem will be prevented from spreading into future generations.
However i dont beleive that will happen, and as in the UK about 20 years ago this is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Has it still not registered with people that the wholesale application of failed UK policies by successive governments is what we are reaping?
Time to distance ourselves from the UK
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QUOTE Jackie “Has it still not registered with people that the wholesale application of failed UK policies by successive governments is what we are reaping?
Time to distance ourselves from the UK”
Is this aimed at me Jackie??
If so I think you need to actually read what I said.
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Did you hear on the news this morning that the mother of those two boys being questioned about the assault on those two young lads which were left severely injured says its nothing to do with her – so where do you go from there?
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>>Is this aimed at me Jackie??<<
No, I don’t usually read your posts.
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Thats Good, I’m releived that I’m not usually the target for your views
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Jackie
You accuse Deputy Steere of being a lefty, interfering, busybody. You seem to have a post, if not several, on every thread here on Your Shout. Can I ask what type of politician would you be?
A stable home life will always be the best foundation for a happy life.
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I agree that there are some children who are lost ‘in the system’. This is sometimes to do with their upbringing but often it is their life choice. It is unfair to target people who live in States Housing as being the main problem families. I was brought up in a States House and neither I nor my siblings have ever been a burden on society. We all took on mortgages when we could though as we wanted a home we could call our own and also have something the children could inherit. There was, and still is, a definite stigma attached to living in social housing though and with the high cost of buying houses these days more and more families will need so-called social housing or affordable rentable property. My children love visiting their friends who live on ‘estates’ as they enjoy the fact that there is always someone to play with. It is snobbery that is the problem in this island.
It is not the cause of all the ‘neets’ though. Many of the children/teenagers who have problems with social interaction and drug/alcohol problems come from all sorts of families but usually the one common denominator is that they have parents who have parted. Some get thrown out of their homes when they are 16 as they are ‘in the way’ – some choose to leave as they do not get on with their step-parents or there is no room – and then they turn to social security to help them. This is a small island and surely the States could do something to help these youngsters before they become ingrained in the system of benefits, unemployment etc. It appears they are given money far too easily these days and not encouraged to work. We should be helping them to find a niche in life – everyone has something valuable to give and there will be a job somewhere that they will enjoy. It may not pay a fortune but giving them self respect is the first step. One thing I was shocked about is the number of youngsters being prescribed antidepressant medication – several of my children’s friends are taking them. They surely cannot all be clinically depressed – they are bored, fed up, dejected perhaps – but not depressed. That is a word that is bandied around far too easily these days. My view is that they are bored and need to be loved and cherished and to gain self respect.
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Cliff
>>A stable home life will always be the best foundation for a happy life.<>Can I ask what type of politician would you be?<< Ask anything you want
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oops, seems my ditty above went wrong. Anyway Clifford.
“A stable home life will always be the best foundation for a happy life” I agree with you whole heartedly.
What I object to is the left and their ilk who by 20 to 30 years relentless attack on the family, state and institutions forgetting that they are in-part to blame for the brekadown. It’s more that ironic that after society has been bombed to bits by the lefts continued assault on family life that they have the audacity to tell us “it is all about the family”.
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Niether of my parents have A-Levels or Degrees. My dad left school at 14, eventualy joining the services for a while, my mum in the UK left school at 17, and joined the UK Civil Service.
“However”, I and my two siblings have all degrees 1st , a 2.1 and a predicted 2.1. The two that have finished have well paid jobs and stability in our lives.
Its not about parental educational levels- its about cohesive family values (though not ness’y at a “traditional” two parent family) morals discipline and communication. We were taught to work hard- thank goodness
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Merlin
I totally agree!!!!
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There are quite a few good posts here but I think most of use are missing the issue of what these kids have come to expect. Parenting has an involvement in upbringing but does not guarantee anything.
Fundamentally children lack self esteem and the ability to do things for themselves, why because most of them have been brought up in a generation of computers, TV’s and game consoles, where social skills and basic individual skills are not required. Games allow anyone to act out personal fantasies, being a solder, fantasy character, pilot etc. There is little effort required other then time (Which kids have stacks of) and the results are massive, only virtual.
Now take that same child into the modern work place after 16-18 years of school, where you have to think for your self, working with all manner of people in a pressured environment, with longer working hours and only 4 weeks holiday. They freak, its hard work, etc and then they give up.
So take the 300 over the 9 years (16-25) that 33 a year joining this group, that’s quite a lot for bad habits and parenting don’t you think? Society will see an increase in this before it gets better.
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Perhaps the States needs to do some cohesive thinking. First stop ‘rewarding’ these people with large benefit payments. Make them do something even if it is hard graft like gardening in public places, cleaning the streets etc. Most of them refuse to work even though they are more than capable or they are not trustworthy employees. It is unfair to expect an employer to take on someone who is lazy, disrespectful etc. If they refuse don’t pay them anything. I know of people who have worked hard for many years and fall on hard times and they get very little help from social services – but the youngsters seem to know all the scams.
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Several comments on this thread have referred to ‘the stigma’ of living in ‘states houses’. The bailiff was brought up living in a states house and yet he seems to get along fine with no stigma attached.
The only people that try to stigmatise those that live in social housing are very narrow minded individuals that feel a need to inflate their own status due to inferiority complexes. Although I believe that they should be offered help for their mental condition they should also be reminded that their views are tantamount to aparthied and that they are unsupported.
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Nobody has mentioned the very real problem over here on a small island. I have witnessed this many times. If an easily-led teenager gets led astray by the wrong crowd it is extremely difficult for the teenager to escape that crowd. They will have daily contact with them at school or in the neighbourhood after school, and if that teenager’s schoolwork starts to suffer then it can be a very quick downward spiral into vandalism and petty crime. I’m sure that we all know of many kids from decent homes who, once they are 14 or 15, are effectively beyond the control of their despairing parents. Its not a problem to be under-estimated on the island and it cuts across all schools, not just the secondary schools with the higher number of children from housing estates.
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