Chaos fear as firefighter deal enters final weeks
Saturday 4th April 2009, 2:30PM BST.
AIRLINES are demanding assurances that they will not have to cancel flights again because of a lack of fire cover.
A temporary agreement between airport firefighters and the Public Sector Remuneration Committee that guarantees cover has just a month to run and there is no sign of a resolution.
‘There’s continuing frustration that no settlement appears to have been reached two months on from major disruption at Guernsey Airport as we approach our busiest time of the year,’ said Flybe general manager market development Ian Taylor (pictured).
Flybe and Aurigny want guarantees that there will be no repeat of February when flights had to be cancelled on successive weekends because firefighter numbers fell short of the minimum requirement for the larger aircraft.
Aurigny commercial director Malcolm Coupar said: ‘We are seeking assurance from the airport authority that they will not allow this dispute to extend to further disruptions of airport operations.’
Firefighters maintain that February’s disruption was not industrial action but the result of a long-running disagreement over off-duty men having to provide cover for other watches when numbers fell below the minimum required.
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Get men who will do the job–plenty of Polish would love the job and will WORK all the hours possibal !!!!!
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But surely thats their job………if they don’t like it can I suggest that they look for alternative employment!!
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Gsy Donkey= you still don’t get the message do you. firefighters have been leaving and getting alternative employment because the pay is not good enough for staff retention, not enough staff equals staffing levels not meeting transport authorities requirements, Ron Russel =, I have no problem with a polish person saving me from a plane crash but anyone who has worked exessive Hours is a danger to himself and everybody he works with.In an emergency I want somebody there who is fully trained and allert
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Ron and gsydonkee
You are both so right, lets recruit more firefighters so that those who are presently overworked have more time off.
Then they will be able to increase their spare time work and save the tax payer from paying all the overtime, and the extra £ 1000 every 3 months.
Then everyone will be happy eh !. Don’t think so.
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Alan- that is just it- thay do not work hard when thay are on duty thay would have to work very- very hard if needed-thank God not very oftern so most of the time firefighters have a relaxed work duty unlike the old days!– We need firefighters and in a fire situation thay are worth there weight in GOLD but must not be allowed to cause problaims were by flights are cancaled– and by the way Polish are fully trained and will WORK thay also know the CUSTORMER comes FIRST
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Ron Russell-find out the facts before you comment and by the way, judging by your grammar you would not even meet entry requirements
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The PSRC have had enough time to negotiate a fair pay deal – have they been having talks?
No one but the people involved know what has been going on behind the scenes so let’s hope that a solution has been found and will soon be agreed. It seems absolutely crazy that the PSRC are paying firefighters about £1000 bonus every few months to keep them working while a deal is negotiated when they could have given them a lot less with a formal on-call deal and saved the tax payer a fortune.
Re: bringing in Polish or for that matter any other licence holder to do the job. I believe it will cost much more. There will be relocation allowances, housing allowances etc and the whole thing will be repeated every 4-5 years – licence holders do not save money they cost more. If local residents were paid the same there would not be a shortage at all. Short term thinking is not working – we need States members with long term plans. Why doesn’t someone do a comparison with the costs of other airport firemen around UK, Jersey, Isle of Man etc and see if ours are being paid on a par?
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As one member of the Airport Fire Service who was trained up to Crew Commander level (costing quite a few thousand pounds over the years) couldn’t get a local licence (even a short term one), resulting in him leaving the Island due to the cost of living open market, I wouldn’t imagine Polish workers or anybody else who hasn’t even had States money spent on their training would be granted a licence to come and take the jobs. Then again logic and rational thinking aren’t really factors in any decisions made by the States.
GSYDONKEE: Compulsory overtime is not our job. When retention and recruitment problems are not dealt with and ignored, after years of bailing the States out of the s**t you tend to get a bit frustrated and fed up of doing it. Unfortunately, selfish as it may be, I work to live not live to work.
RON RUSSELL: I think you will find the opposite is true. Gone are the old days of Airport Firefighters sitting around playing cards and pool. I think you will find that with current Civil Aviation Procedures focusing on competency based training, Airport Firefighters work harder than in ‘the good old days’. This I know for a fact as some guys who were around in the old days didn’t like the new system and left.
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The airport firefighters should look around, we are now in a different world where jobs are hard to find! Get used to your pay, we all know the terms of employment when we start our jobs if you want to better yourself, you retrain and move on, don’t bully everyone else into paying what YOU think your worth. The island is in trouble and everyone needs to knuckle down and work for the greater good or we may just find that nobody has a job!
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Al Brouard and his team need to start doing some hard negotiating and quickly if this island is not to be brought to a standstill again.
If the arguments are all indeed about on-call pay then it is petty and should be sorted quickly. There are many models of on-call pay used in the States – compare them with other jurisdictions and come to a comprimise. Sounds simple but no doubt will be made more difficult by incompetent negotiators.
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I tend to agree with Paul on this one.
>>don’t bully everyone else into paying what YOU think your worth<<
The island simply can’t be held to ransom by some 70′s hangover unionism that knows it can shut the factory and will shut down the factory.
The Airport Fireman have lost the support of the public and are in danger of overplaying their hand.
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I cannot believe this is still going on! How much money has been wasted with all these £1000 bonuses. This should be sorted out, NOW! Then matter closed. Just get a load of Kids that are leaving school, train them up and Voila, new firemen to ease the staff shortage.
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Can someone answer a few questions? (Maybe SM as he (?) appears to know the situation on the ground):
Are any steps being taken to train the standard fire service for the specific requirements of the airport, so that they can provide cover when required (maybe on a permanent rotating basis so that practice is maintained)?
Is the airport fire service resisting any move to co-ordinate their service with that of the general fire service?
If so, what are the arguments for keeping the two services separate?
It seems to me that co-ordination is the most likely way to relieve recruitment problems and allow flexibility to cover staffing shortages.
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Its obvious!! Why pay people these so called sweetners to work if they are contracted to do it?
I rest my case!
p.s. If your boss wanted you to work all wknd every wknd how many of you would do it for the love? Just because the firefighters days off/wknds may be on a tuesday and wednesday for arguements sake, does that make them less valuble!
The powers that be know what airport management and airport firefighters want, however dare they opt for the usual route because they can’t make a decision i.e. 3rd party?
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PAUL: Correct. We knew the terms of employment when we started. Those terms said nothing about compulsory overtime or making up the shortfall of staff when staff recruitment and retention issues continue to go unresolved.
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How many lives have been saved by Airport Firemen (not just locally but worldwide)? I doubt that it is very many especially when you take in to account the number of flights each day worldwide. If an incident is survivable people are usually out of the aircraft before the fire brigade arrive and if not survivable it isn’t going to make any difference. I would be happy to take my chances and fly without any fire cover at the airport at all.
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What will it take for these so called “Polititians” of our Island to step up to their plate and settle this argument once and for all? Our Airport is our vital link to the outside world and the biggest States income financially. The Deputies are holding out for this temporary agreement AKA “sweetner” to run out so they can get some third party to make the decision for them. Why are we wasting our money on these incompetant big heads when they are unable to make the decisions we pay them for?
At the end of the last temporary agreement the Airport Fire Service played what can only be described as an “impressive” move which is why a ruling was in their favour of no dispute.
However, what happens after this temporary agreement runs out? what happens if the firemen decide to go head on into a dispute if there has been no compromise between the parties? How quickly would a third party be assembled to resolve this situation that the States have let go long on enough? A week? Two? Im thinking more of six weeks.
As always though the States will inform its poodle in the Guernsey Press to say its not their fault and to blame the firemen and as always the public will believe what they read and the States will have brushed another problem under the rug.
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Humbug- why dont we also close the hospitals because im never ill! In fact lets just leave the neurological dept open as its quite obvious that you need brain surgery!!!! Oh and what about stop all the medical flights in and out of the Island as these are not used frequently enough! Air search as well! Life boat!
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Condor must be loving this….one point I might add is what use is all this effort that Lyndon et al have gone to ensuring Guernsey remains on the white list when we can’t actually keep our airport open long enough to get the business people in and out.
Guernsey airport is disadvantaged already as a result of its location and fog delays. Lets please sort this out so as not to make matters worse.
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The Airport Fire Service is undermanned because staff have left for better paid jobs elsewhere, is that the fault of those who remain?. If they decided to follow their former workmates where would the Airport Fire Service be now?. Try thanking them for their dediction to their job instead of castigateing them!.
And Jackie!, the Airport Firemen cannot overplay their hand simply because they are acting within their contract of employment.
They cannot be forced to work the days off they are entitled to because they are within their rights to refuse.
And if they produce the required cetification of illness from their doctor they are entitled like the rest of us to be ill.
What a way to run an Airport having to hand out lump sums of money to bribe the Airport Firemen to work their days off when the answer is staring you in the face.
But it is the PSRC who are responsible for this saga now going into it’s 3rd(4th)year but they don’t have to live with the consequences do they. That’s the cross they’ve handed the Airport Management to bear.
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>>And if they produce the required cetification of illness from their doctor they are entitled like the rest of us to be ill.<<
Everyone knows the public and civil servants have the highest days off per year – because thye know how to play the system. As for the doctors notes, don’t make me laugh. I’ll pop down now to the local doctor, whine about depression, stress or a bad back and will guarantee I’ll get 2 weeks off.
Your ‘entitlement’ is tantamount to benefit abuse
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A quick Google will show how the sick note culture is burying the UK administration.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/4529047.stm
I have no doubt this will be ‘defended’. Love to know the stats for Guernsey but have no doubt it will never be released or even collated.
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For some unknown reason you seem to despise the Airport Fire Service. The reasons for this appear to stem deeper than because the overtime wasn’t covered and the Category fell. Perhaps you got knocked back by an Airport Fireman one night and this is the reason for your ongoing resentment. However, your unfounded accusations of benefit fraud I find disgusting and offensive and unless you have some hard evidence to prove this I suggest that you engage your brain and think before you let your fingers start hammering away on the keyboard and coming up with more rubbish like this.
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Got some news for you SM; there are far more islanders disgusted by the AF’s antics. You don’t seriosuly think you have the people behind you do you?
What’s up, you don’t like people showing their disdain for having a gun held to their head. Do you think you are the only hard working people in the island. Thousands of decent local families who are working hard to get a few days off the island are having their plans ruined. But what do you care? Your actions are cynical and disgusting.
Now go put your feet up.
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Yes that is news, but very old news. Most islanders have had a lack of respect for the Airport Fire Service for many many years whether things are running smoothly or not. Seems most people want to believe any little rumours that the occasional bitter individual wants to spread. The proverbial gun that you talk about was not being held by the AFS. Two Industrial disputes officers stated that there were no grounds to register a dispute as the AFS were not breeching any contracts, says it all really. It is just a shame that a lot of people are too narrow minded to want to understand what is going on. How many years do we have to bail out the States after making it perfectly clear to them that there are problems that need sorting. About three years of having our goodwill abused and still nothing done about it or even any attempts to do anything. It is so easy for the narrow minded to jump on the band wagon and slate the AFS and lay the blame on us for any problems as we are there in the firing line not hiding away in a cosy little office.
Anyway, rant over. I am off to put my feet up.
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In support of the airport fire service (no i am not one or married to one) they are only doing their job. They are refusing to work their days off and holidays. The service is understaffed and they cannot recruit apparently according to recent media statements. The States know that and should be doing something about it, not leaving it to the last minute and risking ruined family holidays and business travel.
As for other comments about the police, nurses, doctors etc have you not been reading the paper? There is a shortage and a lot of UK staff are brought over to cover. There have been stories in the media of nurse shortages and some hints about closing beds – but i have a relative who is a nurse and the hospital has a large amount of agency nurses – being paid 3 times what others are. Not sure about the police. Someone accused the doctors of handing out sick notes willy nilly – what does that say about them? I have never been offered a sick note, even when i felt really ill. I was told i could have 3 days off without one and if i still felt unwell then to go back (yes more money).
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Well, just the ignorant few with personal issues towards the fireman left. Jackie as per usual spouting her unwanted verbals accross every one of these forums. It would be nice to know what you contribute to society? You seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands anyway. Jackie, i do sincerely hope that you are one of the unlucky few to be affected by any forthcoming action. Its a shame that the decent people of the Island do have to get dragged into this. There is only one group of people responsible for this disgraceful situation and that is the under fire PSRC headed by the totally incompetent Al Brouard. This group has had its day and proof is in every independant report that the states wastes money on to tell them this, yet still ignore it. 4 reports now!
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By the way, in response to TL. The 2 services are similar to football and rugby. They both use a ball but thats as far as it goes. Different shapes and different rules. However both highly trained and skilled in their own rights. Anyway I wonder why it is the airlines, Airport management and PSD all agree and fully support the AFS. Says it all really.
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Yes sick notes are abused and just as much in the private sector as in the States, I know that from a lifetime of experience.
But as that seems the only thing you base you position on ignoring the other points in my post your position seems to be based on Guernsey gossip, preducice and pub talk as Roger Berry used to call it.
You do not question how the situation has arisen when the sickness on one airport fireman leads the the cancellantion of flights. You do not ask why the AFS is so undermanned and has been allowed to be so for 3 years!. Oh it’s because of greedy airport firemen according to you.
Do the civil sevants of the PSRC whose job it is to find a solution to this problem not have any resposibilty here. Do not the politicians who they answer to have a duty to make sure the Airport is run as smoothly and safely as possible as a vital asset for the island.
This situation has arisen because because disillusioned firefighters have left for better paid jobs elsewhere, not because those who have remained have done anything wrong.
This situation is due to the abject failure of the PSRC accept the reality of the situation and it will conitue until they face reality!.
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What does the PSRC consist of ? I know it is a mixture of politicians and civil servants but how many and what grade – and who takes overall responsibility. We have a black hole to fill and i would like to take a bet that the problems at the airport could have been solved years ago and saved a substantial amount of money into the bargain.
No doubt they will be faced with negotiating for lots of other public sector workers again soon – look how long last years farcical talks lasted. Wonder if Tribal Helm are looking at them?
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