Mother made to move red rose tribute to dead son
Friday 17th April 2009, 2:30PM BST.
Dorcas Woodland on the seat she had erected in memory of her son, Daniel Pleisch. (Picture by Adrian Miller)
A GRIEVING mother has been told by the Environment Department to remove a single red rose placed under her son’s memorial bench.
Dorcas Woodland was devastated when she received a warning letter on what would have been son Daniel Pleisch’s 28th birthday.
It said that a number of complaints had been made and asked that the items – flowers and a candle – be removed from the bench at Bordeaux as soon as possible.
There was also a small collection of shells left by Daniel’s two children, India, 7, and four-year-old Kaion.
‘I couldn’t believe what a fuss was made about a couple of little shells and a flower that his children left.
‘I had a red rose to take there that day, but after I read that letter, I was afraid to leave anything,’ said Mrs Woodland.
A rose she left on Valentine’s Day was still under the bench, barely visible through the grass.
Mr Pleisch, a self-employed gardener, was 24 when he died following a motorcycle accident on 12 October 2005.
- The Environment Department said it regretted it was unable to respond fully to the points raised by Mrs Woodland in the time available before this story went to print. The department said it would comment shortly and give information on the standard conditions attached to the installation of memorial benches on the coastal lands that Environment manages on behalf of the Crown and the States.
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As Long as the Bench is still accesable ie not covered in flowers, shells etc. And Flowers cleared up before they start rotting, then whats the problem? Surely this is the same principle as laying flowers on Graves.
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‘same principle as laying flowers on Graves.’
Isn’t that the point GG. I’m trying to be as diplomatic as possible here Guernsey’s coast line (including Jack Honeybills benches) is fast becoming an extention to the Foulon.
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Sad ‘eh – if it had been the residue from a takeaway it would’nt have even got a mention!
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Er do they want to have a look at the wrecked cars at Cobo???
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The Environment Department are happy to dump thousands of tons of rubbish in a hole, and pump millions of gallons of **** into the sea, and after 15 years still can’t find a solution. But if you leave one red rose on a bench you get a letter and a warning. Can you supply the name of the letter sender, I have some plans and can’t wait the normal 16weeks for an answer!!
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She was an easy target for them to put on their stats..
Wouldn’t happen to Tom Scott
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Have these sad people got nothing better to do than complain about a single red rose and a candle get a life. My sympathy’s to Dorcus and family
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Jackie: While i do agree with you on your point. Not everyone has a grave. I do not know any of the circumstances around this family. But if my son had no grave and their was a memorial Bench, Id lay my tributes there.
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I feel so sorry for the persons who made the complaint …how small minded eh !
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The whole idea of these memorials seems mawkish to me but if they are to be permitted they should at least remain unadorned.
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Im thinking that Environment is a bit bored at the moment, a bit light on the work…
Maybe i can understand removing the candle, afterall that could be seen as a bit of a fire hazard, but a rose? come on -its small, its biodegradable and is zero risk to others, whats the problem?
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Pity they don’t send the same letters and threats to the yobs that leave glass and litter on the beachs and headland
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I think there will be uproar about this…… and rightly so.
Anyone who complained about a rose and some shells needs to seriously get a life.
And to anyone who thinks its wrong for a greiving mother to place a small number of items at a site where she was permitted to have a bench, you need a serious attitude adjustment.
I thought the Nazi’s left over 50 years ago.
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@Ted – Why?
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I thought the idea was to supply a bench for people to use and enjoy in memory of a loved one.
If it looks too much like a grave,with candles,flowers and shells,then people will not feel it proper to sit on it.
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Enviro let themselves down with that decision.
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This is a bit outrageous to be honest.
If people get killed on a road, chances are people lay a memorial wreath at the point of impact for years to come.
If someone from the Environment Department was so bothered by it (they obviously went to view the ‘breach’) then why didn’t they just collect the items and put them in the bin?
Grief is a very personal thing and I think a letter was the most insensitive way this could have been handled – what is wrong with popping round to see the ‘offender’ or giving them a phone call.
It goes to show that the majority of people who run the island have about as much common sense as a baked potato.
My heart goes out to you Ms Woodland.
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Utterly bewildering. Petty bureaucracy gone mad. Really Environment, find some serious issues and leave this poor family alone. Ridiculous.
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“Grief is a very personal thing”, writes Darren, but projecting of one’s grief into the public domain in a very overt and obtrusive way is a very public thing.
My grief, like my other personal feelings, are private to me and I do not consider it appropriate to make a conspicuous display of my emotion in a public place. The making of public exhibitions is not necessarily evidence of deep feelings.
The place for a personal memorial monument is in the home or in the graveyard not on the public right of way.
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Without a lot of these memorial benches there would not be anywhere to sit and admire coastal views.
This seems petty in the extreme: especially the limit on the number of letters allowed on the bench. I can understand that environment would not allow other things like candles etc but one red rose and a few shells underneath is hardly noticeable.
Haven’t environment got anything more important to do?
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Ted – re-read what you have just written; you contradict yourself totally old bean.
Grief is personal – you choose to do it privately, some people choose to do it publicly.
Just because you do it privately does not mean to say a public display of outpouring of grief by another person is inappropriate – it is just different to you and that is what makes us all so unique.
What about Princess Diana? Or other public figures – I suppose those funerals are wholly inappropriate in your view – which is fine.
I suppose you are the one that called in the grief Police?
If the Environment Department deem it illegal to place a wreath, rose or whatever in a place then so be it, but a letter in the first instance smacks of people with poor decision making skills, interpersonal skills and a severe lack of empathy to me.
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Once again a penpusher pushing their weight around. Further evidence that there are too many civil servants with too little to do. We have less freedom now than when the Germans were here.
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Ted, I hope you never have to face that situation.
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As much as I sympathise with Mrs Woodland losing her son, she knew what the rules were regarding items being left on/around the bench before it was put up. A standard set of conditions that everyone requesting a memorial bench receives. Mrs Woodland should not be encouraging her grandchildren to leave sentimental items. Ray is right, if you treat it like a grave then nobody will use it and that completely negates the whole point of a bench. Does it not?
I also very much doubt that the Environmental Department knew the exact date of the deceased’s birthday – the bench only states year of birth and year of death and I doubt it’s something they’d be likely to have on record. A simple unfortunate coincidence if Mrs Woodland did in fact receive the letter on this date.
Those individuals slating the Environment Department need to realise that they have to carry out their roles using the guidelines that apply to all of us – grieving or not.
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‘projecting of one’s grief into the public domain in a very overt and’ Agreed.
Benches (wooden) used to have a small brass plaques. These granite things have rapidly become tombstones.
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Can only hope that to make a comment like that, that ‘Blogger’ did actually live on Guernsey during the Occupation. If not then I would say think before you post as that could be seen as very offensive.
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Well said Blogger. From what my Nan told me about the occupation, I think you are right.
We can can do without people like this managing Guernsey.
Like many others have said, why don’t Environment concentrate on clearing up smashed bottles, litter and THE YOBS !!!
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One would think the Environment Committee would have more important things to think about. I wonder if they held a meeting and took a vote on this petty objection?
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For whom are these monumental memorials intended? Are they a substitute for a gravestone or intended as a headstone supplement?
While they existed merely in the form of a note such as “in the memory of J Le Page” or “J Le Page 1950 to 2008″ I found them tolerable but some now have most elaborate inscriptions. To further convert the memorial into some kind of shrine by leaving flowers and votive offerings goes completely over the top.
If people want such things – and, surely, no one could deny them the right – let them be erected in private places or places such as churchyards where they are wholly appropriate. Please don’t thrust them in the faces of those who are simply wish to walk on a public path without having the equivalent of a gravestone thrust in their faces.
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The laying of a flower or flowers and other meaningful items (such as shells or a candle)at a memorial sight or other sight of significance (spiritual or otherwise) to the person who has died or their family is a sacred and traditional right which transends the unimportant and banal desires of a governmental department (or more particularly an individual of that department). It would be fundamentally wrong for the flower/shells to be removed by the family themselves because quite simply it would equate to their removing and taking away a gift given in mourning for their loved one and would break the meaningfulness created by them on the day they left the items. Accordingly, the flower and shells should remain intact for a suitable period before careful removal.
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I agree with Anna-Lu, Dorcas Woodland was permitted to erect a bench in her sons honour and was provided with clear guidelines and has no grounds for complaint. I feel a grave is more suitable for placing flowers and other meaningful things. The Environment Dept. must act if there is a complaint about someone breaking the ‘rules’.
That said, the issue of flowers etc. being left on these coastal benches should be at the very bottom of the Environment Department’s, and the complainants priority list. They need to sort out the dog mess, smashed bottles, litter and raw sewage first and then perhaps deal with the odd flower or shells on a seat.
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Quote Ted “My grief, like my other personal feelings, are private to me and I do not consider it appropriate to make a conspicuous display of my emotion in a public place. The making of public exhibitions is not necessarily evidence of deep feelings.”
That’s a traditionally British cultural response to emotion, stiff upper lip and all that. That doesn’t however make it the appropriate way to behave – just your particular taste.
I agree public exhibitions are not necessarily evidence of deep feelings (e.g. Diana’s funeral – I just don’t think you can grieve deeply for someone who you don’t personally know – unlike this lady with her son) however equally they may not demonstrate an absence of them. In many African cultures for example, overt expressions of grief are normal and the more British style of staying “respectfully silent” could be deeply offensive.
I think Darren got the point – we’re all unique and express ourselves differently.
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Actually I retract what I said about Diana’s funeral – it is possible to be moved with compassion and grieve for people you don’t know.
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Just wanting to check if i was to hop on one of these benches on my mountain bike is that wrong, or if I had a picnic on one with family then the greaving family came to pay their respects should I move…. if so surley it should be in a cemetary then along a cliff path where it can be used or abused!
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What kind of idiot would want to hop on one of these benches on a mountain bike ??
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I agree with Ted, Jackie and a few others. The bench is provided as a public amenity for others to enjoy, and for the family to know that something good has been done in memory of thier lost family member. It is not meant to be a shrine.
I feel similarly about flowers at the roadside after a fatal car accident. It is fine to place them there after the event as part of the natural and immediate grieving process, but I think that if people place flowers year after year it encroaches on everyone else’s right to use public places without being haunted by memories of death. Family memorials thereafter should be at the home, the graveyard or garden of remembrance.
To take another example, if someone’s ashes are scattered in the sea on their favourite beach, would it be acceptable for the family to lay flowers on the beach at various times throughout the year? I think not – the beach is not a shrine, it is there for all of us to enjoy.
Although this lady paid for the bench, her rights to use it for personal purposes are no greater than her right to use any other public amenity.
I sympathise with her, but feel that her remembrances should be at home.
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Neil – An idiot that can to your question.
I posted a stupid response due people making comments about Nazis, that comment should have never been posted not just that it’s racist but it’s insensitive and grossly inappropriate!
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Guern – whats wrong with posting something that uses the term Nazi’s?
If it is in the context of how aggrieved you are then fair enough, i.e. ‘Guern was a bit of a Nazi for suggesting he hop on the bench’, i.e. cruel, heartless, thoughtless, tacless, merciless etc (you get the picture).
If on the other hand you are suggesting to relate this to Nazi activity is dispraportionate then you have a good point.?
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The comment wasn’t aimed at me at all that I can see, it was aimed at the planning committe….
I feel that those types of comments should not be published, are we not an island of looking forward then dweling on the past?
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Why not? I dont understand and yes TL if someone did want to lay flowers on a beach at certain times I would be all for it.
Lets face it, if you can pump raw sewage in the sea around guernsey why cant you leave a few tokens around the island.
To all the people who took time to complain to the authoritys about this – shame on you, get a hobby. How many times do the complainers use the bench? if you want to sit on it Im sure you could move the shells etc. up a little. Honestly its beyond me that anyone would complain.Let the lady have her bench, if I – God forbid- lost my child I would probably want to do the same thing.
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caz, but that’s the point – it is not HER bench. It is not for her to appropriate it as a personal shrine.
Granted, a few shells are not causing anyone real inconvenience, but if you let one person do it you need to let everyone do it. A single flower on the beach is not a problem either, I agree, but how many people die each year in this small island? If we all laid tributes at our loved one’s favorite beauty spot, certain parts of the island would look like Kensington Gardens after Diana’s death and we would all be worse off for it.
I am not trying to take anything away from peoples’ loss or their ability to remember their loved ones, but the rest of the community has a right to use and enjoy public places unadorned with numerous personal memories.
This is hardly radical thinking. There is a regular clear up at the summit of Ben Nevis to remove all of the stuff that gets left up there by people who want to mark the fact that their loved ones enjoyed hill walking – without realising that by turning that place of beauty into a glorified rubbish dump, they are actually detracting from the characteristic that presumably attracted their love one in the first place.
It is all “thin end of the wedge” stuff. Needs to be handled sensitively, but doesn’t change the principle (in my view).
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Oh dear oh Dear:
Just fancy that a lady, a grieving mother lays a ROSE in memory of a loved none.
Those who opposed that action, leaves their memory every day of the week as it is pumped into our sea.
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TL, could not have put it better myself
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