‘I’m a prisoner in my home’
Wednesday 22nd April 2009, 2:29PM BST.
PENSIONERS are too scared to go outside their Grand Bouet homes.
A 66-year-old woman, who asked not to be named, said she found living on the estate terrifying.
‘Our lives are being made a misery. You lie in bed at night waiting for the next thing to happen. It’s very frightening,’ she said.
Residents who are waiting to move out ahead of the estate’s redevelopment have compared living there with life in a war zone.
On Easter Sunday, the Fire and Rescue Service was called after another car was set alight.
The woman, who has lived on the estate for 12 years, said that a gang – with some members as young as 10 – were terrorising the neighbourhood.
‘There are so many of them running about the estate – they are completely out of hand. They shout, swear, drink and smash their bottles and bang on our doors and windows at night.
‘The more run-down the Bouet gets, the more trouble there is,’ she said.
Housing minister Dave Jones said in Monday’s Guernsey Press that tenants had a responsibility for their quality of life and that there must have been witnesses to crimes on the estate.
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“Our lives are being made a misery. You lie in bed at night waiting for the next thing to happen. It’s very frightening,’ she said.”
I find this wholly unacceptable. Frail old ladies living in fear because Housing and Home won’t get together to sort this out.
Hiding behind ‘it’s a law and order issue’ or my staff are ‘only civil servants’ or ‘we need evidence’ is cynical, disgusting and just plain wrong.
Deputy Jones you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself. In fact it is a resigning matter and you should do the honourable thing.
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A lady aged 66 terrified to go out of here own home or even Identify herself out of fear!,this is a thing we may all have to suffer if nothing is done.
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Can’t the decent residents that live in hot spots work with Housing and install covert cameras to gain the evidence that is needed for action?
It would only take one or two feral families to be evicted to make the others sit up and take notice.
Shazza and Tray would actually start to discipline their 10.4 kids, from different dads, and the step dads may even skip the pub in favour of the obligatory nightly 18 pints but in cans.
Still though we are left with the problem of what do you do with the evicted family. I don’t think many letting agencies or private landlords would fall over themselves to help them out.
Maybe the social services could start implementing courses to help turn these feral chavvy idiots into decent folk that want to make a bit of a difference to each others lives.
I wont hold my breath though!
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Jackie – I hate to say it, I REALLY do, but ‘here here’.
Deputy Jones you should resign as you clearly have not the faintest idea.
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I find it laughable that they expect a frightened 66 year old woman to grass on people who are already making her life hell.
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I shall say it again CCTV, some diligent Police work (not involving just handing out panic alarms)and short custodial sentences in solitary confinement with 1 star food.
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I would like to ask: Whatever happened to the birch, to reformatories, to discipline in the home and in schools? But I’m afraid I already know the answer – crime has become a multi billion dollar industry and the big earners in this industry are the very same people who should be stamping out crime.
Take a holiday in Singapore and see how happy and fear free all the decent people are. Crims always always get their come-uppance. The do-gooders (liars) say it is an authoritarian state and that all the people there are cowed but you will find that only would-be crims are cowed and you’d have to vist their undercrowded prisons to learn that. I have friends who have worked there and I have been there myself so I know what I am talking about. So, do away with mollycoddling crims of all ages and make Guernsey like it once was – much like Singapore is now!
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These problems have been going on in the estates for years and successive Ministers have done nothing to resolve this. Instead of Hosuing Minister being pictured on a diggers knocking down Houses I would rather see him deal with real issues in a positive way.
Old ladies living on their own in darkened flats are not going to risk, rightly or wrongly, calling the Police. It jsut isn’t going to happen and Housing Minister Jones knows that.
For fear of repeating myself it’s disgusitng that neither Home nor Housing have got to grips in any meaning ful way with this. Police hide behind ‘manning’ and Housing hiding behind some made up proof requirement.
Housing have not got to grips with those weak residents who in their twilight years deserve more respect and protection than this.
These are real people, living in real fear and are being ignored by the agencies.
Come on Deputy Jones. Step up to the plate. You are a tough nut, yo uare the first to jump up and down and wave the ‘guernsey flag for the locals’ When real people really need proper protection where are you?
Do the right thing by this lady. Policy Council member, senior member – what would you be doing if this was your gran?
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Jackie I think the answer is.. NOTHING! It dont matter if old Ladies are terrified to leave their own home ,you cannot go around upsetting those lowest forms of lives…they have more rights than the decent folks …and if you upset them they will target you more ,so its not worth tangling with them.
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Brian
The PC Brigade got rid of the Birch, as they have also got rid of many other forms of disciplining youngsters.
This is where its got us!
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@Paul – what to do with them? I say we reuse the various bunkers and towers that are around the Island. Lock ‘em down there for a couple of months and see if they still want to cause a nuisance.
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The States should have a system I saw on the Secret Millionaire progamme. The housing project checks the condition (damage and cleaness) of each house to monitor and record. If things get out of hand they are evicted. Other ideas:
The states could increase the rent for any house that holds an offender of anti-social behaviour.
What about on the spot fines.
Lock em up. If things like this are eft to slide, slide they will……..
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Jackie
Part of the process of tearing down these old estates is to provide a better environment for people to live in and we will not redevelop all the Bouet simply because we do not want to repeat the mistakes of the past by constructing vast sprawling soulless housing estates with all the social problems that go with these huge developments. You make the point that successive Ministers have done nothing to resolve this issue. I will repeat what I have said before and that is the vast majority of the problems on this particular estate are a matter for the police, not housing officers. We are social landlords, we rely heavily on our tenants to provide evidence of nuisance to other tenants, they also have to report any incidents of a criminal nature to the police. We at Housing work with the police on a daily basis, the police send units to these estates to investigate complaints from us and tenants and it is for their officers to gather evidence and convict those who are causing these problems, when we have those convictions then we have a solid case to base any possible eviction for those offences, however some of the younger perpetrators will be below the age of prosecution and will be the responsibility of their parents to discipline. On the issue of older tenants we are currently building many new homes in order to accommodate older tenants in smaller homes where they have been under occupying family properties for years. We have moved older tenants where we can from problem estates but we have at present the biggest movement of tenants in Housings history from those we are moving to other properties to empty estates ready for demolition, to those who are being temporally accommodated while their homes are being completely refurbished, while at the same time finding homes for those on our waiting list. That is not including those waiting for transfers, so it is not as simple as it might seem, The mix of tenants on our estates has not been perfect but I can’t be expected to sort out the problems that have accrued over thirty years or more in five minuets and Jackie, I stepped up to the plate on day one and have taken together with my board all the problems we face. I have further meetings with the police in the coming weeks, there has been a bigger police presence down there just recently and I am told that things have improved. I have asked for a report on the current problems which we will discuss with beat officers and senior officers about what else we can do to improve things. As to whether I should resign, well that would be a matter for the States to decide if they have lost confidence in my leadership of housing I am positive they will let me know. I can only say this, that when people who live on private housing estates experience anti social behaviour and criminal activity, or intimidation they call the police, not their mortgage broker to sort it out. They also have to be prepared to give the police the evidence they need to prosecute those responsible.
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I think the long running problems will take years to sort out but at least Housing is trying, and to be fair to Deputy Jones he and his department are changing things.
The real problems are the ‘low lifes’ living on these estates who fear no one and nothing and have no respect for anyone or anything – when they are finally caught and arrested and imprisoned there is always someone else ready to step up and take their place.
This island (following UK legislation no doubt on dealing with underprivileged families) is throwing money at some families. These families have the canny knowledge that if they actually remain unemployed they can have a great time courtesy of the tax payer. As an example they get their medical bills paid for (and perhaps someone is able to tot up the money which the taxpayer is forking out for them attending the doctors or asking for home visits at any time of the day or night every time they get an ache or sniffle). Another example is rent being paid for – while other families struggle to make a living. They get money for clothes and furniture and goodness knows what. Fair enough if they are actually unable to work but most of these people would be able to work – they choose to make themselves unemployable by habitually turning up late or generally causing problems for employers who were willing to give them a chance.
What we need are neighbours willing to stand up and report these issues (surely they can report them to housing confidentially and if enough complaints come through for a particular person or family then housing have ‘evidence’ that these people are breaking their tenancy agreements)? I do remember reading about one family who had been issued with an eviction order and it was plastered all over the Press – with sensationalist reporting taking their side and saying how housing were throwing a family out on the street! Housing cannot win – they have to put these families somewhere.
It is such a shame that the minority are making life unbearable for the majority – and we, as a society, need to stamp on this now before we do have the problems of an inner city sink estate. Drugs are much more common place, alcohol abuse is an everyday occurance and lack of self esteem and poor education are the things underpinning this behaviour. I am confident that there is probably a lot going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about with social workers, police, housing etc so let us hope that these problems are getting better. The Bouet has such a bad name but the majority of residents are not bad people and would dearly love to get out of there – they take pride in their houses and flats and are hard working. Why doesn’t the Press do an article on ‘A day in the life of ……..” a working resident at the Bouet and compare it with ‘A day in the life of ‘an umemployed resident at the Bouet’ – now that would be worth reading!
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I also feel Dave Jones needs to be commended for his open manner and taking the time to answer peoples questions.
He is one of less than a handful of deputies that actually bothers. Some posters are quick to point the finger and rest the blame somewhere. It is a shame that this blame is not placed at the scumbags that are creating the misery for the decent tenants.
I have been told that there is a handful of broken families on the estate that are making the lives of others intolerable. They were described as making Wayne and Wayne-etta Slob look classy.
Maybe housing could target these few before Frogmella Slob reaches her teens and recreates with rat boy from number 17.
Values have been lost along the way. Kids know their rights all too often nowadays. I feared my parents when I was a kid. Now though parents are a thing of the past with a mother and revolving step dads becoming the norm.
Kids should be educated at school about family values and the importance of having children as well as being a decent family and bringing them up to be decent citizens.
In a lot of cases the feral families around nowadays like babies. When they reach a certain age they are pretty much left to fend for themselves.
This chain must be broken!
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A thorough response Mr Jones. But walk with me a while.
Our family own several properties. We have had probelsm with one or two tenants in the past. Nothing criminal, just anti social. Parties, noise parking that kind of thing. Under the terms of their leases they were sent letters reminding them of their responsibilities. Ands threatened with eviction. Generally it quietened things down, sometimes it didn’t and one was put on notice.
Are you saying that your tenancy agreements are different? Becasue I have read one and it seems clear to me that tenants can be warned and threatened with eviction.
I’m, cynically, suspect that you are using ‘proof’, ‘evidence’ and ‘conviction’ as an excuse to not use the powers set out in the TA.
Short response is fine. Are you telling me that a 3 strike process based upon the reporting of behaviour eithe by police or neighbours would not be acceptable for you to send strongly worded letters to tenannts. are you saying you can only evict people when a conviction is obtained?
If the answer is ‘yes’. Look back 12 years or so when you were a lowly citizen writing to the GP and saying your bit on the radio. As a taxpayer would you find that acceptable?
Is it fair that old ladies live in fear because the system is borke? And if it is borke, why can’t you step upo, harden up and help the frail living in fear of feral kids.
I’m sorry Mr Jones, but only immediate action to assist the vulnerable is acceptable and a cohesive plan of action between Home and Housing is necessary.
As successful as th GHA may or may not prove to be it isn’t helping terrified women exposed to this kind of abuse, fear and terror?
Thanks for your reponses.
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>>I have further meetings with the police in the coming weeks, there has been a bigger police presence down there just recently and I am told that things have improved.<<
Good. Please keep up the pressure and not I hope something that will happen for a few weeks until the story blows over. Have a plan, announce the extra patrols or whatever and come back and report something positive to the people of Guernsey and how it has improved the lot of the older tenants.
The police can’t be everywhere, but as a taxpayer, I’ll take a few noisy motorbikes, some over parking if it means an old lady feels safer in her home.
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Deputy Jones
Why do you keep laying the blame at the Police’s door when your department is at fault.
It is a simple equation – these people live in States housing, States housing is paid for by, THE TAXPAYER.
The people of Guernsey are the taxpayer and expect value for money, further, as the landlord, which you are, you require your tenants to maintain certain standards in respect of damage, cleanliness and noise pollution.
Basically you do not enforce your powers because you would rather the Police do your work.
As has been stated elsewhere here people will not call the Police for fear of reprisals. If a victim calls the police and it is taken to court the victim will be required to provide a statement and therefore their evidence will be disclosable – what do you think happens then Deputy Jones?
I tell you what – and if you do this I will forever back down from my tirades against you.
Go and live in one of the houses for a month, with your family, then decided who should be managing the problem – put your body where your mouth is, so to speak.
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Deputy Jones
I knew you at the Cafe before you were a Deputy. What ever happened to “When I get in there will be bloody changes” ? All I see here is your proffessional political career overtaking what is morally right.
This should be sorted and not passed on to the police as it is clearly your problem , as it is on States Housing Property. I whole heartidly bakc darrens views here, I think the blame lies with you to sort.
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Maybe the social services could start implementing courses to help turn these feral chavvy idiots into decent folk that want to make a bit of a difference to each others lives.
Paul
| April 22, 2009 at 4:15 pm
That seems to me to be a very positive view Paul and with the help from Deputy Jones’s department, this may work.
However HSSD in my opinion, do not have the resources to do this. If these children are commiting offences then it is fine time that the Guernsey Goverment as a whole address the larger issue and start enabling the UK system of Youth demeriting system and even harsher, take the parents to court and convict them, maybe these constraints will force the parents to take responsibilty with minimum Public taxpayer outlay.
There are arguments however that Guernsey does nothing to help the Youths of Guernsey ,which forces them to loiter and cause trouble. I agree with this issue aswell, surely it does not take rocket science to realise that you need to face this issue and get the Guernsey kids things to do and places to go. We are not England we do not have adventure parks, nor do we have any decent facilities for children. High time the island invested in the children and not on stupid projects which are a waste of time and money.
1 Law to Pass, 100 of Thousands saved in HSSD costs and Housing trying to solve this very bad issue.
Mr. Jones I think the best idea I have seen here in all these comments combined, would be to look to Government for a way to enable this demeriting/conviction system already in use in the UK. Your Views are most greatly welcome.
P.S. On a sidenote, what worries me about our lovely Government System, is that we vote, we get told our views are valuable and that Deputies will hold meetings to Discuss billet of Government to represent there constituancy/voters. This is never the case, they are voted in take control and do what they want. Makes you wonder if there are other forces at work here , after a person gets into a Deputy position? Or have I been badly misinformed.
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I can only say this, that when people who live on private housing estates experience anti social behaviour and criminal activity, or intimidation they call the police, not their mortgage broker to sort it out. They also have to be prepared to give the police the evidence they need to prosecute those responsible.
Sorry for picking this passage up late Mr. Jones. the answer is simple to your question here.
Mortgage lenders dont use tax payers money as far as I am aware. So why refer to a Mortgage lender as being the same as a Government States Department, they are clearly two seperate entites.
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People who are being intimidated on States Housing Estates (as are those on private estates) must be willing to stand up in court and give evidence of the thuggish behaviour being carried out that they have seen. Until this happens the thugs will continue getting away with unruly behaviour.
We need to stand up and be counted and stop expecting the States to be able to sort out all the ills of this island without the support of those they are trying to help.
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Deputy Jones is on the right path in the building of smaller more manageable estates. I do believe that a closer more collaborative relationship with the police is needed – perhaps a client centric shared database (with different security levels) between the departments would enable this; but it would cost money ;)
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Hey they might already have a system like this in place? i dont work at housing or with the police so i dont know, Im just trying to put a few ideas out there.
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