Car arson at Cobo ‘vindicates constable’
Tuesday 5th May 2009, 2:29PM BST.
AN ARSON attack on an abandoned vehicle in a car park at Cobo has vindicated the actions of parish constable, according to a douzenier.
The Petty Debts Court recently ordered constable Barry Paint to pay £200 to the owner of a van he damaged while moving it in the same car park.
Deputy Paint told the court that he had been asked to move the van by the douzaine as it posed a fire threat to flats just a few feet away.
Fellow douzenier Dave Chester said the latest incident only went to show that his colleague was right to do what he did.
‘If the van that Barry moved had been torched in similar fashion, the noxious fumes would have gone straight up into the flats above,’ said Mr Chester.
Deputy Paint had told the court about threats to set light to vehicles vehicles in the car park, which is subject to a long-running dispute over ownership.
The Fire & Rescue Service was called to deal with this incident at 10.20pm on Wednesday.
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Surely there must be something someone can do to get rid of those abandoned cars.
Never mind the idiots who think it is fun to set fire to them – who are the morons who think it is acceptable to dump their old vehicles on our lovely coastline? The police must be able to track the owners through the registration numbers and I cannot understand why they don’t charge them with fly tipping.
Or is the bloke who claims to own the land deliberately filling the parking spaces with abandoned cars to make a point?
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It’s not fly tipping dumping cars on your own land though is it?
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Wasn’t he filling up the area outside stampers for that exact reason? If so, then I wouldn’t put it past the owners to do the same.
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Actually it only highlights (excuse the pun) their failure to ensure law and order on our pretty Isle.
Dont park there someone might blow it up lol!
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Is someone able to explain what the problem is with this land? I heard that no-one knew who owned the land, but that doesn’t seem right and the above posts seem to indicate that the landowner is known.
If the identity of the owner is known, surely the planning laws can be used to do something about it. If you are not allowed to park a caravan on your drive in public view, then a Mark 2 Golf, with two wheels and no doors has got to be banned as well. If not, I am sure that the vast majority of the island would approve of a specific amendment to make it so.
The whole situation is a disgrace (not to mention the huge pothole as you drive in)
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Is there anybody in Guernsey who honestly believes that dumping cars in this way is acceptable (apart from the selfish idiots who do it obviously)?
If the answer is no – which it surely is – then our elected officials should act in the best interests of the vast majority of islanders and remove the cars and, if possible, prosecute those who dump them.
Or is our legal system so feeble that it can only protect the rights of the perpertrators and not those of decent law abiding islanders?
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I think a chap called Tom Ashol Royd claimed to own the carpark…
From reading articles in the press, I remember him claiming to own the carpar, but I don’t recall him ever providing proof… Nor the parish providing any proof that he didn’t own the carpark…
I don’t think the police can move the abandoned vehicles if they are on private land and they probably don’t want to get involved if there is a dispute running about the ownershop as they could get “in trouble” at a later date…
Surely though, if neither party can provide evidence of who owns the land, it should belong to the States/the people of Guernsey…
I think the carpark looks disgusting with all the wrecks sitting there. Cobo Bay is a beautiful area and one of the most popular beaches during the summer, this carpark dispute is ruining the area.
I may be completely wrong… Just my thoughts…
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Having spent some time discussing the issue with the “owner” down the pub (by accident and being nosey) it appears that this piece of land along with many other parcels around guernsey are owned by individuals from way back when. Over the years it has been the norm to allow the public to use these pieces of land for certain activities.
The owner believes he has good title and is waiting for someone (states parish etc) to prove otherwise.
I understand (from the horses mouth) the principal objective is to have Sandpiper being the owners of Checkers and Cobo Village Ltd pay a market rent for the use of this land as the parking benefits their business. The rest of the properties around the area (including the fisherman lay up) have been granted access rights without issue or cost. According to the owner these businesses orignally owned land around their sites but chose to sell them off for housing some years ago.
The owner has been paying public liability insurance on this patch of land for years so contests that it is strange that whilst he allegedly does not own the land he is responsible for insuring against problems that may arise.
As private land he has a right to park cars etc and the actions of Mr Paint (whilst admirable, common sense and in the best interest of us Guern’s) are technically trespass. The owner of the Van had the right to park there (unless ownership of the land is dissproved) so Mr Paint unfortunately whilst acting in everyones interests was acting illegally.
According to the owner the reason the situation can not be resolved is that this matter opens up an enormous can of worms as there are numerous sites around Guernsey that theoretically are in the same position. Allegedly the potential for this ownership dispute continues to the Wayside and to Maryland Garage. However to reiterate it is only the benefit to the businesses that is sought to be “taxed”.
My personal view is that whilst the owner may be legally correct (until proven otherwise) it is just not cricket to act in such a manner and shows an unhealthy dissregard for the Guernsey general public.
On the positive side I have been informed that one of the origial agreed uses for this land is to dry out vraic so if the public wished to make use of the land for such a purpose it would not be frowned upon by the owner!! Bonkers!!
I have been general and used lots of ifs and buts however I can hand on heart confirm this was the “view” put accross to me by Mr Holroyd.
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Thank you for that Castel Concerned – very informative.
In which case, I have some suggestions. My understanding is that you cannot acquire a right over land in Guernsey by usage, and so if the owner wants to stop Checkers customers parking there, he can do so and force Checkers to pay a reasonable rent. The solution is in his hands, unless a right has positively been granted in which case he cannot ask for rent anyway.
If he is the owner of the land, then he should be responsible for what is left on it. I suggest that the States makes a new planning regulation that requires everyone in the island to have planning permission to have a non-roadworthy car on their land which is visible from a public place (there are already similar restrictions against caravans I believe). After a suitable compliance period, the presence of any non-roadworthy vehicles on the land would be a breach of planning laws, entitling the Environment Dept to clear the land and send him the bill.
In the circumstances, I don’t think we can force him to fill in the pothole near the entrance, although his insurers might want him to do something about that as there would be a public liability claim if someone was to trip over in it and hurt themselves.
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Very interesting Castel Concerned – thanks.
When I was a kid growing up in Cobo (and I was born above a general store that used to stand where Stampers now sits), it was gernerally agreed that this was “common land”.
I would have thought the onus was on Mr Holroyd to prove he actuall owns the land rather than have the rest of the world prove he doesn’t.
In any event I wish they would get it sorted so they could get rid of the abandoned cars – they are such an eyesore.
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“I would have thought the onus was on Mr Holroyd to prove he actuall owns the land rather than have the rest of the world prove he doesn’t” CD I agree with you 100%!!
If the Castel parish have not found any proof of who owns the land, then where did Mr Holroyd go for his information?!?
“The owner believes he has good title and is waiting for someone (states parish etc) to prove otherwise” Good for him, surely it would be much faster if he was to show everyone his paperwork which proves he “owns” the land.
People use the car park when going to the beach, during the summer holidays it can be impossible to park anywhere at Cobo! Should Checkers/Cobo Village really have to pay for the use of the carpark? Would a paid parking system work?!? Seems unfair to have Checkers donate money to a public carpark…
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Castel Concerned
How can the ‘horses mouth’ have paid years of public liability insurance on the land when he only purchased it at the end of 2007?
It would be interesting to know who paid to tarmac the car park ( several years ago by the look of it )This would give an indication of who thought they had rights over the land. Was it the States? Was it the shopowners ? Was it the previous “owner” ?
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Whoever “owns” the land has to prove title.
If Mr Holroyd “bought” the land in 2007 then there must be title! Or no conveyance in court.
Interestingly there a large number of parcels of land in Guernsey where there is no recorded owner these are not common land just land with no title.
The only “common” land as far as I am aware is L’ancresse common (with grazing rights etc). All other public amenity land is owned on our behalf by the States.
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if i was to fall down one of the many pot holes in the car park outside checkers would i be liable to compensation from the parish, The States or from the private owner??? If i was to cut myself on one of the rusting heaps of metal which have been ‘parked’ on the land who would be liable?
The car park is not a ‘Terre a’lamende’ – therefore it is not private in my book.
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“confirm this was the “view” put accross to me by Mr Holroyd.”
Who bought it a few months back and is chancing his arm.
As for Catel parishoners coughing up for a fine; i’ll try that with St Martin’s next time i get a parking ticket. ;)
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Am I wrong in saying that there is a parking disk limit of one hour parking in this car park? If this is law then all the car’s dumped should receive a ticket for each day they are left there (last know owner) this might get them shifted! If the parking disk area is not valid as its private land I wonder how many people have received a parking fine in the past? Are they now entitled to go back to court and get their money back?
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Tom.
Good point about the disc park if it’s correct.
That suggests the States laid claim to the area and that they must have conveyed it to Mr Holroyd.
Surely the lawyer who at great expense drew up the conveyance could easily clear this up.
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however well intentioned mr paint was in the wrong moving this van, this dosen’t vindicate him at all.you’re a deputy, voted in by the few, representing the few not god almighty deciding what’s to be done.should have moved it with the proper equipment and it wouldn’t have got damaged, pay your fine.i do agree the place is a mess and needs to be sorted out but that doesn’t make mr paint right.
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Merlin
Where you park your car at your house is not ‘Terre a’lamande’ either does that mean your driveway is not private?
On a serious note I agree with nikkers view
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