Nose biter is given community service
Thursday 7th May 2009, 2:30PM BST.
Paul Fletcher, the tip of whose nose was bitten off by James Warren in a scuffle.
JAMES WARREN, who bit the end off Paul Fletcher’s nose in a scuffle at the Vale Earth Fair, has been sentenced by the Royal Court to carry out 240 hours of a community service order.
Judge Russell Finch said he must do that within 12 months.
Mr Finch said that if community service had not been available, Warren would undoubtedly have gone to prison.
But if the 21-year-old, of Vidcocq Cottage, La Bailloterie Lane, Vale, fails to complete the community service, he will be jailed for 15 months.
In March, the court found Warren, 21, guilty by a 9-1 majority of malicious wounding. Mr Fletcher, 50, had told the court how the incident occurred when the two men had fallen to the ground after he had tried to restrain Warren, who he thought was attacking a woman.
In mitigation, Advocate Mark Dunster said that his client had not been to prison before.
‘This wasn’t an incident where James was looking for trouble. He was grappled by Mr Fletcher and all of the consequences resulted from that.’
Mr Finch, said Warren had denied the offence so could not get credit for a guilty plea.
‘It was a severe over-reaction on your part,’ he said. ‘The injury you caused was a most distressing one and the court rejects your plea that you acted in self defence.’
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Sorry – just for a split second there I thought that I had read that maiming someone by biting off part of their face led to community service?!?!
Oh yeah – I forgot… we live in Guernsey where we have one of the most pathetic justice systems in Britain…..
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The strangest thing is the comment that if community service was not available he would have got 15 months.
Justice being seen to be done?
I don’t think so.
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Pathetic. It’s sending out the wrong messages and saying serious assault is completely fine in Guernsey. I gurantee Guernsey is one of the worst places in the world for binge drinking and drink related violence. Yet this issue seems ignored compared to the severity of cannabis importation which holds heftier sentence.
Guernsey justice system is a Joke.
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And the idiot who assaulted the girl gets 6 years this guy should get at least 2.
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I agree with all of the above. The only way things will change, though, is for all – and I do mean all ( no hiding in the background letting others do it) – Guernsey residents to come together with public demonstrations and a 50,000 plus petition demanding change, namely an improved justice system, otherwise it will just go on, and on, and on…….
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So then, bite somebody’s nose off = community service, keep your job/house/wife or girlfriend etc.
Import a bit of dope for personal use = prison sentence, loss of job/house/wife or girlfriend etc.
The punishments over here simply do not fit the crime, it’s as simple as that. The judges are so out of touch with public opinion it’s untrue. Possession of illegal firearms, carrying knives in public, domestic assaults, rapes, child porn offences, GBH etc should all be punished far more strongly, but they prefer to fill the prison up with people who like to smoke dope or go dancing after taking a tablet or two, neither of which does any harm to anybody who hasn’t chosen to partake of their own free will. It’s a disgrace.
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I know the victim and I can say, very confidently, that you would be hard pressed to find a more gentle, passive man. I would be interested to know if the word ‘scuffle’ was actually mentioned in court. Scuffle implies some sort of fight and gives totally the wrong impression. This was a vicious, unprovoked assault against a very peaceable and unthreatening person.
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Vince I think the city I live (Hull) is probably more violent than anywhere else on earth.We seem to have a murder every week ,violence seems to be the norn these days.Only the other day a guy was kicked and punched to death only yards from where a guy was shot in the head,only a few hundred yards from where another guy was beaten to death only a few yards from where a youth killed another guy last week and the list goes on. I say bring back the rope !
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Although I agree with alot of the above comments in principle, there is one aspect that may have been overlooked by many that have commented. Reading the above article it would appear that Mr Fletcher ‘thought’ that Mr Warren was attacking the woman. In defence of the legal system (in this case) it may well be that the sentance would have been more severe if Mr Fletcher had intervened in an actual physical attack on a female.
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He deserves a custodial sentence. What’s wrong with the sentencing policy in Guernsey? Surely questions should be asked about this? It seems to continue on and on and everyone is stunned by the dreadful sentences these morons get dished out.
Agree with you Phil. It’s nuts. Mitigation: hadn’t been to prison before – the advocate needs a slap.
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expat80, I understand your view but I disagree with the method. We have politicians to handle this and everyone should be calling their representatives and demanding action. It’s the only way, voices should be heard on this one. It’s very unsettling that these idiots virtually walk away from crime in Guernsey. Politicians wake up and deal with the real issues of law and order in our wonderful island before it all disappears and we catch up with the sordid aspects of the UK’s moral breakdown.
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I agree with the above, violence is not punished properly and the heavy sentences for possession of various substances that in the most part have very little effect on others is ridiculous.
Vince – Guernsey is a long way from being the worst place for binge drinking and violence, any major UK town or city is worse.
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I’ve no problem with the basic principle of community service orders but they should never, ever be an option for violent criminals. The rules must be changed so that the courts don’t even have the choice of a CSO for someone who commits a violent crime as nasty as this one. As other posters have intimated, the ones doing community service should be the non violent prisoners currently serving pointlessly long prison sentences for comparatively minor drugs offences.
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dolly – the advocate was absolutely right to point out that he had not been to prison before. That does not mean that the advocate was saying that he should be treated excessively lightly because of that, but previous record is relevant for sentencing and so failing to point out the lack of a previous cutodial sentence would be failure of the advocate’s duty to the court and to his client.
I recall from the original press reports that this was not entirely clear cut situation. Mr Fletcher intervened in an existing argument and Mr Warren said that he was suddenly attacked by Mr Fletcher while having that argument. Although the court clearly did not accept that Mr Warrren was justified in biting the nose in self defence, it must have taken account of those circumstances in the sentencing. If the argument had originated between Mr Warren and Mr Fletcher I am sure that a harsher punishment would have been imposed.
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“And he spoke through his cloak, most deep and distinguished,
And handed out strongly, for penalty and repentance,
James Warren with a 240 hour sentence
Oh, but you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Bury the rag deep in your face
For now’s the time for your tears.”
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Guernsey is not and will never be one of the worst places in the world for binge drinking and violence. I’ve lived in places that are hundreds of times worse and could list hundreds more.
If you think Guernsey is that bad then you’ve obviously lived a very sheltered life.
I wish people woudl stop making Guernsey sounds so much worse than it is. It scares locals and scares off the few tourists that woudl think about coming here
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Neil & J – you are completely missing the point – I dont know where you live & to be quite honest – I dont really care!!
No – Guernsey isnt the worst place in the world for crime or binge drinking but that is besides the point…
The fact is that someone bit off part of someones face.
There is no excuse for this behaviour & this is the umteenth time we have all been outraged with sentences given in Guernsey courts, the Guernsey justice system stinks…
This has happenned for long enough – if no-one else has the guts to say it then let me be the first:
Anyone who agrees – show your grapefruits & let people know!!!
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W H Bonney I agree with you 100% violent offences have been going on far to long and something needs to be done now.My comment was to portray a picture of my home city in comparison to Guernsey after Vinces comment.My home city was once a great place to live,not much violence,murders rare. But over the years thing have changed and nothing has been done to stem the tide of booze related beating,stabbings murder, so we can now expect things to get only worse as the courts give light sentences for heavy crimes. So if nothing is done about it in your part of the world …only expect it to get worse.
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I too am shocked by this sentence. Though I agree that community service is preferable to a prison sentence, and I campaign passionately against the persecution of people who have been found guilty of crimes and for their right to live a life free from abuse and discrimination (inc employment police checks) and would hate to consider myself amongst those on a tabloid-style bandwagon of outrage, I feel I have to make some comment. Such an inhumane and shocking act as biting off a facial body part is and should be considered a very serious crime. It is more psychologically damaging to the victim than other forms of assault and the damage is not always possible to put right and I do hope that Paul’s reconstructive surgery was a complete success. But it is not the justice system that we can blame for such horrific incidents. It is the much more broad system that raised a youth who is so emotional and angry and desensitised that he is able to carry out such upsetting acts. That could contemplate harming someone to that degree. Who could either imagine that he was being attacked at our annual music festival or as is more likely the case, retaliate disproportionately in a state of rage against someone purely for interfering in his argument. These thoughts and options do not need to be a part of our culture. This is the ultimate miscarriage of justice. That people think they have to behave like this. This boy needs to ask himself whether he wants to live in that kind of culture or the culture that Paul Fletcher (a valuable and respected member of our community for many years) and many others live in, where the only time you would dream of stepping up is in defense of the vulnerable. I would also like to know that this boy has apologised to Paul and I would also like to criticise the Guernsey Press for understating this story.
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Can I just add that under the current social system a prison sentence may only serve to lead youths further down this criminal path and they cannot be handed out lightly. Martyn, I totally agree with you that crimes related to drug use should not be treated with a prison sentence. (I consider it an infringement of human rights to punish drug use at all.) But even in cases of violence we must be very careful about handing out such sentences because of the high level of reoffending *caused* by the experience and stigma of prison. Criminal activity should never result in loss of citizenship and a future and neither should it result in the community’s loss of an individual who would otherwise be a valuable citizen. Of course violence, and especially this kind of violence must be considered a greater crime than drug use, they’re not on the same scale! but the punishment doesn’t prove that. Punishment can only serve to deter and to rehabilitate, not to revenge or validify feelings. I don’t know if the judge knows what the hell he’s doing but obviously time will tell if this boy develops from the sentence he was given.
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I grew up in London and whilst I was a school, a very dear friend of mine was knocked down and killed by a car just outside of our school. The driver was just under the legal drink/drive limit and was going at the legal speed limit. The judge then ruled that, even though she fell asleep at the wheel due to the alcohol, this was her first driving pffense and was given community service.
Now I live in Guernsey and work as a teacher. I appreciate the hefty sentences that drug offences and DUI crimes bring because it may one day save someones life. Drugs may be for personal use but you can never guaruntee that the effects won’t affect others (a message I try to convey to my pupils). Those that have never had to put a friend into the recovery position because they’ve taken something without you knowing will not appreciate this and I hope you will never have to.
The mutilation of someones face should carry a sentence of imprisonment but it sounds like the Judge’s hand were tied by the system. Hopefully people will rally round and call for a modernisation of the sentences for serious crimes such as this.
Guernsey is one of the safest and most beautiful places to live and I know that, now matter what others may say on these forums and moral decay or binge drinking, it will never be as bad as London or anywhere else in Europe.
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I wasn’t in court for either case but I would have guessed that the nurse who was stupid enough to lose all her savings would be more likely to receive community service than a man who maims another man.
On the face of it, this all seems the wrong way round.
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Smallfry
Whilst I understand your point in a sense..
Are you trying to say that offences which COULD lead to another person being harmed should be punished more severley than a offence that has ACTUALLY harmed someone??
Class B Drug (possesion) sentences in Guernsey ARE a joke, a lot of the problem is bile like the Jeremy Kyle show and those awful womens magazines that paint all drug users out to be animals, and all drugs as subversive controlling addictive substances that kill, or turn the users into killers. Its uninformed and it created unwarrented hysteria which has bled over into the legal system.
I dont take drugs, never have, never will, but I know people in the U.K that do (Class B), some medicinal, and some recreational, none of these people have ever harmed anyone, by accident or otherwise, yet if they got caught in Guernsey, they would get the book thrown at them, contrast to the guy that bit the end of someones nose off and tell me that its fair.
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Cases are considered, as everyone knows, on the evidence at the time, and against statute, case or common law.
In this instance I fail to see how this person cannot escape a custodial sentence for Grievous Bodily Harm – he has not just assaulted the victim but has also inflicted a serious injury.
Come on Crown Prosecution – this is not on.
At least the Crown might state that the reason he did not go to prison was because there was no room in the prison in the first place….
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I like to put anti social people in solitary confinement with 1 star food for a few weeks.
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I completely agree with J. I have visitied Guernsey for 38 years and used to spend most of my school holidays there when my Nan was alive. Guernsey is a beutiful island and there are far worse places to live. You all need to realise how luck you are to live in Guernsey – I’d give my right arm to live there.
Back to the point – this guy should have been jailed ! The States need to nip things in the bud before Guernsey does become another one of those no go areas in the UK.
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I wonder if it has been considered that the sentence handed out to James Warren is similar to a suspended prison sentence? I wonder whether the idea of the sentence is to make this chap work some pretty hefty hours to pay back for his crime – if he doesn’t play ball or steps out of line he’s straight inside, in similar fashion to activating a suspended sentence.
I’m not giving an opinion either way on the leniency / severity of the sentence, just trying to understand the mindset of the Judge.
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W.H. I think you missed my point. I wasn’t commenting on sentencing of this case, which i agree was terrible and he should have been jailed (from what i’ve heard which as it comes from the press could be completely wrong)
My point was that there are a number of people who post on this website who think that guernsey is the most violent place in the world and that its not safe to leave your house after 4pm. This is wrong and will lead to guernsey being given a bad image by the tourist who i think we are still trying to attract.
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John, I have been told by someone currently on community service, that it is a DODDLE…. so in other words, a let off.
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‘This wasn’t an incident where James was looking for trouble. He was grappled by Mr Fletcher and all of the consequences resulted from that.’
Paul Fletcher was clearly right when he thought he saw a violent man intimidating a woman.
What would Warren have done towards this woman if Mr Fletcher hadn’t intervened?
Mr Fletcher could well feel that he saved that woman from a far worse fate than a savage biting, if that was Warren’s reaction when he WASN’T looking for trouble.
This pitiful sentence not only gives off a message that random and vicious violence is treated lightly by the law, but that the initial threatening behaviour towards a woman is worth barely a mention.
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