Half-term flight chaos
Saturday 23rd May 2009, 2:30PM BST.
FLIGHT disruption at the airport is ‘highly probable’ at the start of the half-term holiday week due to a lack of fire cover.
Manning shortages mean watches are expected to be short on both Monday and Tuesday afternoons.
Disruption is expected on the two days from about 1pm, but morning flights are expected to run as normal.
The expected loss of category six cover would ground Flybe’s Dash 8-Q400 aircraft, but Aurigny’s ATR, as a category five plane, could still operate.
Niall Duffy, Flybe’s head of PR and market affairs, said passengers were being asked to check in as usual and every effort would be made to operate flights as per normal.
‘The States of Guernsey and the trade unions have had more than a year to sort out this mess and Flybe is frankly lost for words that it remains unresolved,’ he said.
‘The image of the island is taking yet another hit and it’s Flybe bank holiday passengers who will again be inconvenienced. Rest assured, we will do everything we can to keep flying and will again seek legal redress from the States of Guernsey for this ongoing disarray.’
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The Deputy Industrial Disputes Officer says it is managerial problems that is the cause of the problem at the airport so how can the Trade Unions sort them out.
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Why doesn’t the fire-service for the airport recruit more staff and train them. There are more than enough unemployed to undertake the role. It doesn’t require a university degree, just a good sensible level of ‘nouce’. I should know, I was a fireman.
It may not solve the problem short term,(they could renew the payment agreement shorterm) but it will solve the problem long term.
It will help employment and those families of the unemployed and the funding is ultimately from the same source – The States.
Also, rule allowing second jobs for firemen should be monitored more closely. The time off is for rest between shifts. If they are working, they are not resting therefore putting our lives at risk.
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Nice one andrew, obviously got an issue with fireman. So by working excessive overtime at the station is acceptable then. Well going by your comment we should not do any overtime at all and compound the issue even more and enjoy our days off to have a well deserved rest. By doing this we would not have covered the 450 shifts required last year thus leaving the airport short of cat 6 throughout the year. Intelligent imput, try commenting when you know the facts and not out of bitterness as you know that you could not cut it hence not in the job now!
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Geoff, what an immature and childish response, and that sort of attitude and comment only adds to the dwindling support for the firefighters.
I am referring to the “hence not in the job” comment, up until that remark your points were quite valid, but if you are taking that sort of attitude into “pay negotiation meetings” then its no wonder its not getting anywhere when the tone is lowered to what can only be described as “school playground name calling”.
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The strike (yes a strike, guys) by the airport firemen is a selfish and thoughtless act by a group of highly miltant “workers” compounded by weak management not grasping the nettle years ago to weed out restrictive practices and troublemakers in this group. The disruption caused to probably thousands of people over May 09 bank holiday weekend shows that the firemen have no thought for anyone except their own rather comfortable positions. I bet there will be no strike if a fireman is going off the island on holiday! Why can’t the airlines ban them all from flying on their planes for life? Might make them come to their senses..
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Can somebody please coherently clarify what exactly are the gripes of the airport firemen ? We the public are told that its not just about money. We hear that recruiting a few more airport firemen on similar pay to the current level isn’t acceptable even though the existing crew say that resources are overstretched.
I’m not sure that the public truly understand what the issues are and why they seem incapable of being resolved. There appears to be far more to this ridiculous situation than meets the eye and its time that the matter was resolved.
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Couldn’t agree more with Nigel and hearing Ron Le Cras on the radio this morning there is no doubt in my mind where the blame lies. This guy is the North Korea in the world of industrial relations in Guernsey and, unfortunately for the rest of us, he and his men have a nuclear weapon at their disposal.
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The situation is intolerable. It makes Guernsey look ridiculous to the outside world. With 2m unemployed in the UK alone, these so called firemen should be grateful to have a job at all. They have deliberately chosen a very busy time for their strike and I have absolutely no sympathy for them whatsoever.
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Agree with your comments Martyn, having heard Ron Le Cras a couple of times on the radio the man is a Dinosaur with no sense of reasoning. As far as I am concerned the Firemen should all be treated as Lepers.
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Why are these people allowed to have second jobs? I too would appreciate knowing what the real issues are. It appears that being allowed to be available to work regular hours elsewhere is the real reason. All the secrecy just highlights the general fear of selfishness being the root cause.
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“Nice one andrew, obviously got an issue with fireman”
It’s alright Andrew, last time I took issue with the ‘fire men’, I was told I had been jilted by one.
80% of the ‘firemen’ have second jobs. Their claims to wanting ‘family time’ is a euphemism for ‘fitting kitchens’ or ‘plumbing’.
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Red Ron is on the way out. Retiring within 18 months and leading the island and the firemen into an abyss. Segragate the trouble makers and sack them, build on those that want the work.
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When the aircraft you are on has an incident (God Forbid) and it’s only the quick, professional and fearless response of firefighters that saves you, tell me then that they aren’t worth what they are asking.
There is always two sides to every story and if indeed the firefighter’s demands are fair then the inconveniencing of the public may be justified.
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Why does the Fire Service need to be provided by the States? Perhaps the job of providing services at the airport could be contracted out to a suitably experienced private company? A parallel of the security service proviced by Securicor
Obviously the private contractor would need to employ sufficient staff to do the job, and they will not be subject to the states employment level caps. As they are required to have certain qualifications it would make sense for this company to be one of the existing ones that service several airports in the England region, thus ensuring lower shared cost and higher number of available staff ready to be flown in to work.
In the case of any difficulty with its employees, the private contractor would then deal with them in the same way as any other company deals with any staff not prepared to work to the terms of their contract.
Needless to say the record of the existing staff of firemen resident in Guernsey would be reflected in their ability to get a job with the private contract company.
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It’s very difficult to work out what the real facts to this dispute are. It’s about time we the public were told:-
a) How many hours the firefighters are contracted to work?
b) How many hours they actually work a week?
c) How much is their basic pay?
d) What offers have been made to the firemen?
e) What offers have been rejected?
From my own perpective (and from reading posts such as Geoff’s), I can well believe the firemen are behaving rather badly. However, I can also see that this is yet another example of terrible governance by our useless politicans.
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were past caring, if you are not willing to understand the facts i.e. WE ARE NOT IN DISPUTE, then its obvious we will never be able to educate you. That is your perogative.
However all personal issues aside the PSRC have had enough reports condeming them, they are the sole cause of this, our management have had their offer to us blocked which has resulted in this after over 2 wasted years. The public do not deserve this and we dont. Enough is enough the PSRC need to be disbanded with immediate effect as all pay groups are suffering especially the emergency services who are vital.
A challenge to any doubters. How about call the station where we will be only to happy to explain the situation in full. Everyone who has done this thus far including Lyndon TROTT (who is powerless) is now fully converted.
If you think differently afterwards we will agree to dis-agree.
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Which planet – or island – are you living on Allan? You talk about ‘inconveniencing of the public’ as if it’s something like a 10 minute delay on their flights.
This is not by any stretch of the imagination a mere inconvenience, it is making a misery of hundreds of lives out there and at the same time it is jeopardizing the economy of the whole island.
Describing the wilful actions of these men as ‘justified’ simply beggars belief.
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Geoff
If you are not in dispute why strike?
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Geoff, nice to see you are past caring……I hope your colleagues are nicer than you.
And if you are NOT IN DISPUTE, why are you on strike?
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Well Martyn, my world is a world where I rely on the airport for my job. I use the airport a minimum of 4 times a week. I am not doing my job now because the airport is closed.
I don’t believe we can say it is all the fault of the firefighters. The States knew this was coming and didn’t seem to want to avoid “jeopardizing the economy”. They had just as much power to avoid this as the firefighters.
I did not say it was a “mere” inconvenience but if you prefer; if indeed the firefighter’s demands are fair then the slight suffering of the public may be justified.
I still do not know who is at fault. Perhaps both parties are. However, I’m not ready to blame either of them.
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There you go again Allan. It’s just a ‘slight suffering of the public’ this time.
You might be experiencing only a ‘slight suffering’ but try telling that to the hundreds of people whose lives are being disrupted in a major, major way. People who are missing vital business meetings; people who are missing vital connections for holidays they’ve been saving up hard for; people who are trying to get to a very special event like a wedding. Try telling them that it’s a ‘slight suffering’ or an ‘inconvenience’ that ‘may be justified’….
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No Martyn, I refuse to call any of your examples more than slight suffering. Let’s put this in context. Suffering is starvation, chemotherapy, becoming a displaced refugee due to war and even water boarding but missing your flight is not more than slight suffering.
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Geoff
So come on, what are the real issues then ?
I heard at the weekend that it all focused around the restrictions on the right to hold second jobs, and that even if the pay demand was met in full it would be unacceptable because of the related restrictions on holding second jobs. In other words, even if you are paid what you are asking for the terms would be unacceptable because you would not be permitted to hold second jobs.
Any truth in that ? Please tell me that its not true because that really would be taking the p**s.
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In defending these greedy, selfish, ‘firefighters’ Allan mentioned that his definition of suffering generously includes chemotherapy. Whilst hanging around the airport since early morning yesterday we saw many desperate people trying to get to the UK including at least one cancer sufferer being delayed from just such treatment. If you were in his position would you need additional hassle, stress and worry? Do the ‘firefighters’ give a damn – of course not. In my view nobody involved in providing what is literally a lifeline for the island should be allowed to strike, anybody doing so should be subject to instant dismissal and prosecution. Guys, if the airport is getting in the way of your second jobs just resign. You won’t will you? You know you’ve got it too damn easy. Shame on you and shame on our government for allowing you to play God with peoples lives.
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The working conditions are not acceptable and additional staff must be recruited. However, the payscale is more than adequate for the skill set required and the risks involved, especially when you remember a civil service pension is included. Furthermore, strike action should be taken legally with a proper ballot; I am utterly unconvinced that this was the case due to the rapid speed that the service were able to go on strike.
The fire service do give the cost of living as a reason for wanting a raise. I think they do this without considering the bigger picture. The cost of living is very high for most people, including those in finance, compared to the UK and Jersey and therefore despite the higher salaries and lower tax in real terms we are worse off than people in the UK. We have no NHS, education is less per capita and the choice of housing stock is very poor (this is why Guernsey came bottom of a list of tax havens to reside in a recent report). The firemen just need to accept, where cost of living is involved, they are in the same boat as everybody else. Like everyone who doesn’t work in finance, they also need to stop with this delusion that finance workers are wealthier; those in finance with a similar level of training and skill set probably, if anything, earn less than the firemen.
As for the solution, I do not think it will be found by recruiting from unemployed people on the island. Several are in a period of structural unemployment and would leave the service as soon as a job closer to their skill set becomes available. Others are utterly unemployable or undependable.
The choice the States have are to either bring in foreign workers from abroad who can be trained up and given long term licenses, although this is unlikely to work because the weak pound means this type of employee is becoming increasingly short term (and UK staff would not want to adjust to the cost of living) or to train a reserve force for cover. That has the pitfall that people would do it as a second job and may therefore not be mentally or physically fit for task. I think advanced training for airline groundstaff, at the airport’s expense, may also bring dividends.
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I have just got back after spending 48 hours trying to get back to the island at a huge expense and have just found out that I’ve got to take the time I was forced to take off work as unpaid. Airport firefighters, you are an absolute disgrace and an embarrassment to Guernsey. The States should train new people and sack the lot of you.
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Robert: I do sympathise with you having to take unpaid leave (I had to do the same a while back).
However, your last paragraph has to be challenged. If the ff were able to recruit new members of staff and the States had agreed to increase the numbers of ff then this ‘dispute’ would never have happened! It is because they cannot retain and recruit staff and their numbers are not allowed to be increased to cover ff holidays and courses and training etc that the island is in this mess.
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