States pay body quits as ministers take over
Thursday 28th May 2009, 2:30PM BST.
PSRC chairman Al Brouard announces the resignation of the pay body. (Picture by Adrian Miller, 0780595)
GUERNSEY’S States descended into chaos yesterday as deputies learned that a group of ministers had brokered a deal with airport firefighters behind the back of the Public Sector Remuneration Committee.
All members of the pay negotiating body said they would resign.
Emotions ran high as Chief Minister Lyndon Trott told the Assembly that the Emergency Powers Authority had backed a move that saw the Public Services Department come to an agreement with the fire service that would ensure cover at the airport for the next 12 months.
It is understood that each firefighter will receive £4,000.
Deputies yelled ‘disgrace’ as Deputy Trott confirmed the PSRC had been removed as negotiator for future discussions with the airport fire service.
States members also reacted with anger when they learnt that the media was told of the new agreement before they were.
The atmosphere in the Chamber turned ugly when Deputy Trott attempted to respond to criticism from Deputy Mary Lowe – who after the meeting led calls for a vote of no confidence in him – but was silenced by Bailiff Geoffrey Rowland.
As Deputy Trott continued to try to speak, the Bailiff again interrupted him, stating that he was the one presiding over the meeting.
A clearly agitated Deputy Trott slumped back in his chair muttering: ‘Yes – presiding badly.’
Mr Rowland responded sharply: ‘Chief Minister, I am not presiding badly. I am struggling to deal with a difficult situation. Now will you please be quiet.’
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Disgrace indeed. Especially his antics in front of the Bailiff!
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It’s all rather childish really however quite honestly I doubt whether many people outside the States could care less whether the CM or the PSRC got the firemen back to work, I’m just glad somebody did.
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So the CM has finally been told. Good. Its about time somebody put him in his place.
It seems as though a select few are wanting as much power as they can get away with. My biggest concern is whether the travel insurance companies will be willing to pay up for what can only be described as extremely lousy management.
If not the tax payers will have to pay up once again. I think Mary Lowe has hit the nail on the head with her request for a vote of no confidence. The majority of people that I know feel exactly the same way.
Are more members going to have the backbone to stand and be counted. It would make a nice change.
There are a good few states members that are completely clueless but wish to have things all their own way. If this was to be allowed then the Island would be sold out to whoever offered the cash. The Islanders will be paying a very high price for things that might be desirable but all could easily live without.
I bet the Airlines are now wanting to be compensated as well!
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Secretly buying fuel tankers, negotiating pay deals with firefighters, without PSRC involvement, whatever next?
Leadership isn’t about undermining or diminishing those around you…it’s about working with them to achieve the objective.
Our civil servants and politicians are already “responsibility averse” now our CM is giving them the perfect excuse not to make difficult decisions…just mess it up long enough and he’ll step in and take the heat for you, a dangerous precedent. There’s a really thin line between a “can do” attitude and a “rush to judgement” mentality and whilst the CM is to be commended for wanting to break the deadlock it should have been as a collective. If PSRC negotiators were not up to the job they should have been exposed as such and dismissed, not allowed to dodge the bullet and occupy the moral high ground by resigning.
The CM’s gift to the ff’s of £4k is very generous but I thought this was about hours and working conditions…how does capitulating to blackmail resolve this and guarantee against future “illness”?
If the States has so much money floating around why not hire a couple more part time ff’s to provide adequate shift cover and resolve the problem forever?
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Jackie,
At last someone recognised the seriousness of the situation and actually did something about it (I’m ignoring the fact that it cost the taxpayer £120k if the reports are to be believed). Though presumably the resignations of the PSRC and the salary saved should compensate this?
Anyhow PSRC should have resigned long ago as it was clear that their incompetence was adding to the situation.
The States within the next 6-7 months should:
1) Overhall the FF’s contracts, insert a No Strike Clause, ensure reasonable pay provisions, link future rises to RPI, (if negative then 0% pay rise).
2) Via the improvement of 1 recruit (off island if needs be) and train new FF’s to ensure capacity is met.
3) Revamp the role to introduce new roles and responsibilities within the airport to reduce down time (the fact that they spend the day “doing nothing” as many have quoted should not distract from the fact that we hope that their skills are never required!)
4) Prohibit FF’s from having second jobs (assuming 1 is revamped sufficiently) – I belive that the police force are prohibited from taking secondary employment.
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I think trott has a serious problem with controlling his mouth when he doesn`t get his own way.
Flouquet and trott are trouble, they got too much attitude,
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Disgrace is the word I think its time he went
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Agreed – a disgrace.
Surely this, if correctly reported, is in contravention of the Code of Conduct for Deputies.
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Carts – I agree about leadership – working with people not undermining them. This leadership should have been brought into play weeks ago when it was becoming clear nothing was progressing.
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There you are lads,I told you if we blackmail ‘em we’ll win in the end.Now how about another session say in November so we can get a 4,000 quid Xmas present.And lets get our thinking caps on for Easter too!
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Why are Deputies Trott & Flouquet allowed to continue in their positions? They represent the views of nobody I know, continue to speak down to everyone( now the Baliff) and insult the World’s most powerful man. In these vey difficult times we need people who we and others can respect I for one back Deputy Lowe’s no confidence motion, the sooner the better!
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Daniel – your plan sounds pretty good to me.
On to CM Trotts intervention: there’s little doubt the £4,000 payout is tantamount to a bribe – a practice I and most people rightly abhor. However on this occasion I do have sympathy with the CM as he was faced with a crisis that never should have happened.
Had the PSRC got their act together and thrashed out a resolution months ago when they should have (although the FFs deserve their fair share of blame, as does the union that no doubt stirred them up) Lyndon Trott would have had no cause to intervene and take this radical action.
Guernsey demands action from its politicians yet when the Chief Minister does just that people bleat. I’m not his greatest fan and I find his personal manner particularly unstatesmanlike however I do like politicians who get the job done rather than sit round a table, drink coffee and talk. The PSRC had a ridiculous length of time to get this sorted and the alarm bells had already rung. It sounds to me like he simply got fed up with the procrastination (like most islanders) and intervened.
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Is there no one from the actual Firefighters prepared to comment on all that has happened and the outcome.
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So some would seem to suggest Trott,Flouquet,and whoever else deserves credit for sorting this out,i think it was more a case of the ff sorting them out.
Even Eugene could have negotiated that settlement.
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Exactly bcb, hardly the tense negotiation of an armed nutters holed up in a building with hostages.
Trott on hailer: Come Out with your hands up!
FF: You’ll never take us alive
Trott: What do you want?
FF: Family time, to go to the beach with our kids, to spend time with our wives!
(whine whine)
Trott: How about £4k and the head of Al the Baptist?
FF: Ta! Strike off!!
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i would like to put my thopughts to the cm and dcm myself but they are too cowardly to come out from behind their pr representatives and face the people they work for.why don’t they go on the phone in now and again on sunday morning.i guess trott would be asked something he didn’t like and lose his rag, ‘mass burn’ flouquet just wouldn’t be able to keep up i’m sure.these two are awful, trott behaves like this to the bailiff and barry brehaut and still has the job!he represents us overseaas for goodness sake and casn’t cope with direct critiscism, terrible.whether the psrc were dragging heels or the ff were digging in there is a process which needs to be followed, he wrecked that aall round.he is just a deputy like the rest, not the prime minister/president, if we are to have a cm with ‘power’ then more thought must bew given to how they are elected so we,the people, can be involved in the decision.why dosen’t someone explain to him that there is no first among equals!berk,leave, go try and find a normal job.take mass burn aswell.i’d rather a decent person in charge without the ego than a ‘good’ politician, torode was the same, all mouth and swagger. he can offer me out if he likes,we’ll see whose teeth fall out.
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Nikkers
go try and find a normal job.take mass burn aswell.i’d rather a decent person in charge without the ego than a ‘good’ politician, torode was the same, all mouth and swagger. he can offer me out if he likes,we’ll see whose teeth fall out.
LMAO thats brill esp the mass burn bit.
I`ll hold your coat if you like and put HIS teeth under my pillow,,, how many has he got? £££££ :)
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Its amazing.
So many people stepping up to debate a subject that have little or no information about. Moaning like hell that the airport is closed. Moaning like hell when its open (for less than the cost of a days compensation to Flybe!)
What was the better option? Sack them and face months of closure at the airport. Let the PSRC continue poorly managed brinkmanship with the island on a matter of principle? They had months to sort this, they failed, they should go.
Something had to be done and this is the cheapest solution, also giving plenty of time to sort proper contracts out with the ff or recruit new ones who will sign up.
Historically Guernsey has lost out financially and politically due to almost every decision being subjected to endless rounds of consultants reports, reviews and debates, far beyond what was sensible. Whether you like the CM or not, his actions re: fuel tankers stopped a real problem for the island, and he is going to take it on the chin again for stepping in and getting the airport open again.
As for it setting a standard for other pay negotiations, not true. The airport ff have very specific problems with staff recruitment and retention, further complicated by the training and fitness regime required. No other department I can think of has these issues and in the event of strike action couldn’t be covered by other staff.
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Not before time that action been taken to get past the dead hand of the PSRC. The Clark Robinson and Burchill reports have all called for reform of how the States conducts bargaining with its employees. We should all be grtateful that we have a Chief Minister who will take decisive action for the peolple of Guernsey.
Good riddence to the PSRC it’s done nothing for us other than create problems when it should have been preventing them.
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This extension of a temporary solution for twelve months was a direct result of the breakdown of talks between both sides; it works out at just over £76 per week over 12 months about £2 per hour for compulsory cover by the Fire fighters over that period. There are not many groups of workers I suspect who would agree to £2 pounds an hour extra for giving up legitimate rest days on demand.
I wonder what those who accuse the states of caving in would have said if the airport was closed for a week or more, which was highly likely given the fire fighters frame of mind, would those who said make them sweat it out, still be of that view after a week, I think not. The public are the people, who suffer when that kind of thinking is allowed to prevail, and when the airport is shut and it starts to impact on the strategic well being of the island that simply cannot be ignored. There is a lot of talk about money, well the claims against the States from the airlines could have run into a couple of million pounds and what about the tens of thousands of extra costs to the travelling public who have had to cancel and alter their travel arrangements because of this strike. There is also a good governance issue; we only enjoy what autonomy we have, providing we can show good governance by not causing unnecessary suffering to our population. None of these issues have to be taken into account by PSRC. This was not just a matter of a wage dispute; this was about the meltdown of our only airborne link with the outside world, with people who need urgent treatment and tests in UK hospitals being denied essential travel, I know emergency cover was provided but that did not cover people visiting Southampton for out patient treatment or diagnoses. People who had saved hard for holidays, the business community who are keeping our economy alive, visitors our hotels desperately need not to mention the islands of Herm and Sark who also benefit from travellers coming to Guernsey. The costs of this strike to Guernsey far exceeded £2 per hour.
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Hangbags and gladrags, girls!
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As much as I think that there is a sour taste to a deal done in this way (and it makes the GP headline about being held to ransom rather prescient), I am relieved that someone has grasped the nettle.
But this deal has a limited shelf life just like the deals that have gone before it.
Now that the PSRC are out of the way, I hope that we can have sensible discussions about the way forward rather than recriminations about what has gone before. But I just hope that the problem really has been the PSRC and not the union or the FF themselves. If a lasting arrangement cannot be formulated in the next 12 months then I know where the finger will point next time.
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So the latest is King Trott & Co were not able to give the firefighters their ransom money after all and that the remaining Deputies will force them to acknowledge the fact. The ff’s have to abide by the correct procedure and go to binding arbitration, if they are so sure of their case what is the problem? With several hundred on these blogs alone still asking what are your requests, money, time off, second jobs, pensions….colour of the kitchen walls? Why are you so afraid to openly explain the full facts. You must know that they are unreasonable. Your argument about PRSC doesn’t wash either as this is the 2nd or 3rd set of elected representatives all saying the same thing. As you clearly have lots of time during your paid working day to access the internet replying to these blogs could you once and for all state your case FULLY.
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This is quite interesting if in fact true, sadly however I doubt we are aware of all the facts.
I think however that both the purchasing of the 2 fuel tankers, and arranging guaranteed fire cover for the next 12 months are actually 2 very sensible decisions.
People would be the first to complain if we had missed out on the fuel tankers due to bureaucracy and if the airport fiasco had continued. It would seem that in these 2 instances going into “emergency powers” has saved the island money in the long term on both the fuel tankers and the airport.
Now it needs to be settled and put to bed as soon as possible in order that this doesn’t happen again.
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I think it’s great that that Lyndon showed some leadership skills.
How much would it have cost the states taxpayers in airline compensation, loss of business, loss of credibility ect.. if the airport had been shut all week or all month? Millions and millions! The PSRC should have sorted this mess out long before this and should have resigned months ago with their heads in shame. This situation in my opinion was an emergency and warranted the intervention
of Lyndon et al.
I don’t agree with what the fire fighters did but when you break down £4000 over 12 months into weeks it’s only £77 which isn’t alot of money for 24/7 guarenteed airport fire cover when they are understaffed compared to the amount that would have been paid by the tax payer for airline compensation ect…
DH
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Let’s just hope they don’t just replace the members of PSRC without changing their mandate. This set up has NEVER worked and it never will.
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Lets see how the real Emergency Service workers react to this blatant slap in the face. Nurses and medical support staff who save lives EVERY day , and Police who are in danger EVERY day will not see a £4000 sweetener, or anything like it and both are on a NO STRIKE contract.
Firefighters and their Union reps must take a long hard look at themselves and see what is their real value to the island and its economy.
Privatise the Airport and its support services and then we shall see a cost effective and reliable service to the Island. Its time the Island politicians stopped bowing to the Unions’ whims.
Yes he should have resolved this some time ago but I’m sure Mr Brouard was carrying out the wishes and direction of the States headed by Mr Trott……no wonder his Committee resigned, the States rendered them gutless.
Abyssmal, and shameful popular politics by Mr Trott once again.
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Well done Lyndon. Great to see action taken where and when needed.
PSRC Resignations – well its probably about time, they couldn’t sort this one out in how long ???. They should be humble and grateful that strong leadership has contravened, with a solution.
Strong leadership requires strong decisions, something our ‘old’ States still has not grasped…
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Please can some of our deputies arrange a vote of no confidence in the CM and DCM, before any more damage is done to Guernsey?
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Best Laugh all day! Which is what a lot of people outside of the island do when I try and explain our “unique” way, time for us all to grow up me thinks!
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C,M? L,T, should stand down over all these personal decissions he has made , he is trying to run the states by him self, he takes NO notice of anybody, he thinks he is LORD of the MANOR, I think he will be buying himself a “crown” in the next month or so, also Ron Le Cras started this off by saying that it was NOT a money problem, but a working problem,, “what lies” it has turned out to be just the oppesite MONEY I /the public would like to know just what the f/f wages ar, I will end by saying all you people who work for the states, do the same, and see where you get? ;:
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About time someone made a decision. Well done mr Trott and co… As for the psrc, the best and only decision they have ever made was to resign. Take a look at all the evidence weighing in against them and all the other pay groups that have had years of pay decreases.
As for spare time jobs, maybe ask deputy maindonald how she prioritises her day job with her spare time job as a deputy. Also what comes first as her record at states meetings is poor as well?
Anyway as a firefighter and taxpayer i have no need to explain anything to anyone, not least as my wages are not paid from the public purse. Anyway feel free to call the station if you so feel that you need an explanation and i will be happy to enlighten you.
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I really think the town fire brigade should move up to or by the airport so they could stand in and even take over when these renagades go “sick” or threaten us again,,and if they do “sack em” I thought BLACKMAIL was against the law, so how come it was allowed here,
Just a thought £4000 a year is £80 a week raise, not bad for someone who does’nt do much all day, I really hope a lot of people who lost out over this, puts in a claim, “against Ron Le Cras & the F/F”
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I can’t believe people are having a go at Deputy Trott for doing his job. If Trott had not have stepped in he would have got slated. It seems that ‘you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t’.
What (if any) were the alternatives?
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It might be alright to say. as long as they go back to work”
HOWEVER WHERE IS THE INTEGRITY OF THOSE WHO BEHIND THE BACKS OF AN ELECTED BODY, ARE ALLOWED TO DO SUCH THINGS”
It shows the utter ruthlessness of the CM; his horizon is even bigger than his mouth; I sincerely hope he is rejected at the next election or before would be better.
I will write to ¨”Sky News” and ask for a thorough look into the antics of some of our so called politicians.
The Guernsey people deserve honesty in all ways concerning the wellfare of Guernsey; back stabbing is not a Guernsey way of life.
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Instead of everyone calling for Lyndon’s and the other members of the policy councils heads, can anybody on this forum tell me what alternatives they had?
Other than holding out, the airport staying closed and costing us 10′s of millions of pounds and ruining our reputation.
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“tell me what alternatives they had?”
LT is reaping what he has sewn. He’s undermined PSRC for a fe years. Al the Baptist reminded people of his intereference in the manual workers dispute 18 mths ago. Guess who he had in the car? Ron Le C.
Now RLC ain’t stupid, I’ll give him that, he’s seen the division and weakness in the States and has kept scratching the scab. As soon as it starts bleeding old Lyndon piles in with the bandage. Everyone forgetting he was the self harmer in the first place.
Hopefully any enquiry will expose LT’s role in this. He is the architect of this house of cards – no doubt!
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EL – no one is having a go at Trott for doing his job, they are having a go at him for doing an elected representative body’s job behind their backs.
I think our Chief Minister’s ego really is getting out of control (as witnessed by his petulance in front of the Bailiff). Taking positive action to get things done is all very well, but even Mr Trott does not have a mandate to over-ride our due political processes.
I also think he has demonstrated – not for the first time – incredibly poor leadership skills.
A true leader inspires those around him to follow – he does not constantly try to get his own way by bulldozing through his own ideas regardless of what others think.
This is not an example of strong leadership, this is an example of poor leadership.
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According to yesterday’s Press, the “emergency powers” weren’t actually invoked. As with the tankers job, this wasn’t really an emergency, just an inconvenience. Both could and should have been arranged by full policy council, rather than this junta.
A great fire of St Peter Port; a plague; an invasion; catatrophic pollution caused by oil tanker hitting the Cup and Saucer; a “Lockerbie” – those would be real emergencies.
Presumably, every time Lyndon, GIBA, CGI or Chamber don’t get what they want, the gang of ministers which form the emergency powers committee will get together (but apparently not as the emergency powers committee) and do whatever they feel is necessary.
For me an emergency would be something way beyond a few firemen on strike. If LT wasn’t happy with PSRC’s progress in the matter, he should have authorised PSRC to make the offer, rather than authorising the employing department to negotiate directly. PSRC were in all probability following their mandate, and atttempting to keep public spending within the limits LT himself set down when he was Treasury Minister. This disagreement goes back over two years. Presumably PSRC was comprised of different people last week, to those that started the process two years ago.
This dispute has manifested in No-Fly periods before, but with no input from LT (indeed, they timed one no-fly period top coincide with his travel arrangements) – so why now? Is there a particular junket coming up? Or has GIBA instructed him to pull his finger out?
If PSRC were sooo bad, LT would know this, and should have been working to get PSRC sorted, rather than “firefighting” (excuse the pun) their apparent shortcomings. If PSRC was at fault, then presumably the advising civil servants haven’t resigned, and the political resignations will amount to nothing.
The alternative, as stated above, was to authorise the PSRC to make the arrangements, rather than the employer. A hearing had already been set up to hear the case. All that is now back in limbo, and there is still a dispute to be settled. The FF were probably going back to work anyway, as they were getting an awful lot of “stick”. Alternative financial and working arrangements could have been made, too. This was a quick-fix job to get them back to work. What’s to stop them doing it again tomorrow? Nothing.
A few years ago, I had a pal who was desperate to get into the airport brigade. He was already in the regular, town brigade. He had to wait about two years for someone to leave or retire. What has happened in the interim to make things so bad?
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who are the people for this abuse of ‘power’? submarine email 500 people whos addressess are on their books so they are from the business community i guess, giba/iod and the chamber of commerce are for it and the legion of other weird business acronyms that are littering the paper ,(the guernsey group of pr people against racism and cruelty to suit wearers and other rubbish), these people have valid opinions sure but just because they are in the business community their opinions are not more valued than everyone elses. i just spit when their thoughts are given more gravitas as they have made a few quid, they are not voted for and will be focusing on gsy being good for business above all else, thsy support trott et al so they will be supported in the future. it is a poor state of affairs.regardless of what the consequences where this has been dealt with in the wrong way, but htis is only the opinion of NCMR (Nikkers thinks the Chief Minister is Rubbish– one member)
on the other hand i could care less how long the airport stayed closed, and this has been fun to watch!fog has closed it for longer, do we try and call god/buddah /allah whatever your preference.cheers bcb for earlier.
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I thought the problem with the FF was that they did not spend enough time with family etc due to people being on holiday sick etc. How is giving them a “payrise” going to resolve this you are still going to have people on holiday and off sick or can we assume those that have been taking sickies are now well again now they are being paid more! those are the people who need to be looked at. In feb the ff said they would only not work if someone went off sick, lo and behold someone went of sick….makes you wonder – this is what needs to be sorted. LT has not sorted out the underlying problem at all only made it worse as other departments now have set prescent as to how to strike and hold the island to ransom. In respect to PSCR (or what every the initials) they were given their remit by LT as CM that there was no room for negotiation in these circumstances (this is what was discussed on at the states meeting yesterday and was advised) so DO NOT blame the PSCR in this instance as they had their hands tied as to what they were allowed to do. If LT had of intervened in Feb when they lasted laid down tools and had this meeting then this would have been resolved and this weeks fiasco resolved. Blame should always be laid at the top to the person in charge not at the bottom to the poor employee who is being told by his boss as to what to do. In this case i beleive the PSCR were being advised by LT therefore it is him who should be resigning.
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To All
King Trott has spoken.
And saved the Island again.
You should bow down and give him thanks
Personelly.. I think he’s shot himself in the foot. As the next states department is working out how much thier demand is going to be. and the flood gate is now open, So I’m wondering who’s striking nexted ?.
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An excellent post from Bob.
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Bob – the elected body [PSRC] aren’t, and never have done their job though. That’s the problem, someone has to do the job, good job LT did something.
bring on reform of public sector pay negotiations.
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It seems to me that Bob has pretty well hit the nail on the head with his analysis of the Airport FF debacle.
The dreadful consequence is that other pirates will now be considering where, when and how to get the best ransom.
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JUST GO
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Bob,
Per your comment “Blame should always be laid at the top to the person in charge not at the bottom”
As the CM has no additional powers above that of any other States member should the blame not lie with the States of Guernsey as a whole!
L.T. was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t.
I for one am thankful that there are some States members who are willing to take decisive action when necessary rather than debating whether to have a debate on an issue for someone to add a racquette at the last minute or call for a report to be commissioned!
It may have cost the taxpayer a lump sum of £120k but as someone else has quoted this would have been a fraction of the cost Fly(may)be, Aurigny (although owned by the States it is a seperate entity) and Blue Islands would have claimed in lost revenues.
As I said earlier a radical re-think is required over the contractual arrangements of the FF’s and indeed how all other States Departments renumeration is dealt with. It is clear though that the PSRC as body should not be replaced in its current form.
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I see from today’s press Sam Maindonald is ‘urging’ the Police & Town Firemen to go on strike. What an iresponsible thing to say at a time like this! Time to step down I think along with all the other gutless wonders too docile to make a decision or even offer any kind of solution.
The squealing of the PSRC is laughable considering this has dragged on for 2 and a half years with no end in sight.
I was stupid enough to vote, for the very 1st time, for some of these goons and it does not give me any appetite to do it again.
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Bob has hit the the nail on the head. LT, GIBA, et al will probably in future get together and do whatever is necessary.
Well it’s about time. They have shown that they can get things sorted out before the others can even find the keys to the whelk stall.
Let’s tell Lyndon about the Mont Cuet saga.
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Deputy Jones must be commended for having the guts to come on forums such as this.
I see that the old salesman point of selling costs is used in “it works out at just over £76 per week over 12 months about £2 per hour for compulsory cover by the Fire fighters over that period”
Ignoring the cost of overtime that needs to be added to this figure I just wonder what size hole is being dug by those who seek to justify the “payment” . What will the glorious seven say when the nurses, as an example, ask for £4000 claiming it is only £77 per week or better still just over £2 an hour extra.
Easily affordable and within 24 hours of government intervention.
I’m sure others will be able to point to other deserving groups of employees who can justify claims by saying “it’s only £2 an hour after all”
As for the scary claim that airlines will be able to claim millions of compensation I hardly think there is a realistic case when passengers whose flights have been cancelled cannot claim because the cancellations were due to “extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken”. The law states that these extraordinary circumstances include things like strikes, bad weather and political instability.
Mind you the group of seven might well have boosted the airlines chances of recovering compensation from the taxpayer by their assassination of the PSRC. Such action might well have taken away the all reasonable measures get out clause.
The more I read of this the dafter the intervention appears and like most will end with the taxpayer bearing the financial burden.
As I said yesterday short term gain and long term pain.
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Dave Jones talking rubbish as usual. Lots of people get called in to work on their day off (no pay there). Lots of people are on call 24hrs per day (no pay there) when Dave Jones says it is “only” £76 per week for each firefighter he forgets they haven’t had their annual pay rise yet. Would he be able to find another gruop of workers who have had a rise of this magnitude. I challenge him to do it.Why are two firefighters from each watch always on holiday together? Why was there no binding agreement for each party to go to arbitration? what is being done to manage firefighter absence? Who is managing this workforce? What did this dispute have to do with the editor of the press? Lots of questions answers required I think.
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I’ve noticed that all the negative people on here havn’t been able to answer my previous question about what alternatives the policy council had.
The airport had to be opened and it was an emergency!
The silence is deafening!!
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SJ
I would like to know what you would have done, the airport is shut down, PSRC have dug their heels in with no plan B and the island transport system has been almost paralysed. The Policy council kept out of this dispute for many months 18 in fact and the PSRC entered into 2 terms of temporarily agreement gaining more time on both occasions to resolve the issue with the airport firemen. In the end they didn’t resolve it, nor as I say did they have a plan B to counter strike action other than saying that we want to take the whole thing to a tribunal which the firemen said they would refuse to attend and any findings taken at that tribunal in their absence would not result in any permanent settlement.
So here we are with the Airport closed down the firemen happy to keep it that way and the public in utter despair waiting for the PSRC to resolve the issue and you are suggesting that nobody else should interfere. The Emergency powers group had not declared an emergency but I can tell you I believe it was only hours away from doing so. You simply can’t have a situation in an island community where the only airport is shut down, without anyone believing that this was not a real emergency. It is brilliant after months of letting the proper body get on with it we had nothing, other than the threat of a tribunal and days of public misery, I ask you again John what would you have done?
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Danny
The alternative was an Industrial Tribunal that could have reported today or before.
If it was an emergency why didn’t the emergemcy panel declare it to be an emergency, or even have got the States, last Tuesday to bring in a law making strike action by the firefighters illegal whilst the matter was being considered by a tribunal.
Apparently, there is some talk that the firefighters would not have turned up at a tribunal. Well, they might or might not. What is clear is they would have had to accept a binding agreement.
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Good comments made by Bob and CD.
Lyndon Trott did not exhibit ‘strong leadership’ he simply caved in to a blackmailer’s demands and shafted the PSRC at the same time.
And the GP? What a volte face! I am astonished at their claims that the large majority are in favour of LT’s actions.
That certainly is not my experience; not from what I’ve read on this forum or from a single person I know who I’ve talked to/discussed this with over the past few days.
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Dave Jones
Just skimmed your resposne.
So the PSRC made two temporary agreememts.
It seems very much like this weeks is a third temporary agreement. It just buys more time – just like the PRSC.
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Danny – not Policy Council. Alternative was to authorise PSRC to make the offer, but I suspect they were left out for political purposes as much as anything.
Daniel – that wasn’t MY comment.
Eric – wholly agree…except I don’t want to be governed by LT or GIBA without their being held to account. It seems LT is now putting himself above the Bailiff (backchat and sidelining his arbitration hearing). Fact is they have not been granted executive powers and have little mandate for this kind of thing.
One, short-term result has been gained. A second longer-term result may be welcomed (demise of PSRC). The ultimate cost may be greater than either gain was worth.
Remember that the reason that the others don’t know where the keys to the stall are, is because fundamentally, none of these people are fit to run a bath, LT included. Hence, over the years, a system of hampering and blocking has been devised to work in conjunction with fudge, delay and consultants’ reports to prevent any of these idiots ever actually getting any meaningful power. Add to that the determination of Morgan, LT and GIBA not to lose the zero-ten business while the rest of the states were trying not to suffer any budget cuts, and you end up with the stonewalling of PSRC, as they manfully held to their brief of not settling above RPI.
That the situation required sorting, and quickly cannot be denied – but as I read it, the FF invited the Press to hear their grievances, and Digard invited the CM along. So there wasn’t any great urgency or decisiveness on LT’s part – it seems that at first he was playing tag-a-long to Digard. That he saw an opportunity to pay out £120k to forestall things for a year is no surprise – it’s a normal states tactic – but usually they pay consultants to fudge-up a report or two.
As the Press are so cock-a-hoop, along with chamber of commerce and GGI, maybe they’ll jointly bankroll the £120k?
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Nikkers, Madeleine: Press could run one of their little votelines…
bet they won’t though.
Stephen John – beat me to it. If PSRC had made similar arrangements before, in order to keep the lads at work, what is the running total? £6000 a man, now?
No wonder the men wouldn’t settle, with a nice quarterlty bonus to be had for not doing so. Presumably PSRC had the authority to make such offers, so why not simply INSTRUCT PSRC to make the one year offer?
DJ – the dispute isn’t resolved, and is now further from resolution than before. There was a tribunal scheduled. Now there isn’t.
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SJ
You are right in saying that the matter should have been delt with by means of an industrial tribunal but this this should have happened months ago. The island would have been brought to it’s knees if the airport had remained shut all week which was highly likely.
Do you really think that keeping the airport closed until this weekend for a tribunal would have been the correct thing to do?
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Stephen the difference is we WILL have a plan B
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It’s a good job Kevin has come up with a solution to solve this dispute. This agreement is an extension of what was already agreed by PSRC, it wasn’t our solution it was an extension of one that had expired, I merely gave a breakdown of the monitory value of the deal that got the men back to work and the airport open.
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Well there’s 56 postings above, 32(57%) in favour of the PSRC, 18(32%) for LT’s ‘Emergency Committee’and 6 fence-sitters! Slight difference to GP’s 75% online poll of the business community!
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Deputy Jones,
Are you seriously having us believe that the PSRC went into negotiations without a clear mandate or direction from the States?
YOU Mr Jones are part of the States and I would guess that you would not leave the negotiators without clear direction. Of course Mr Brouard could have (and probably wished to ), grant the FF any demands they wished but they could not I guess because their direction from the States would not permit it. Lo and behold when things get tough the CM rides in on his charger and gives in to their demands within hours. The fact that the situation was allowed to happen in the first place under your watch Mr Jones et al, was shameful and for that you have shown yourselves up and embarrassed the people of Guernsey.
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Deputy Dave Jones
Your comments and questions ofme deserve a more detailed response.
1 This agreement (retention and recruitment?) is de facto another temporary agreement.The substantive agreement stll needs negotiating.
2 You say “So now we have it – the firemen were happy to keep the airport shut”.
Now the problem I have with this is that they could have caused carnage by sticking to their contract. Yet, they were willing to throw away all their income by declaring a strike. Happy to throw away their wages for an indefinite period of time. Why?
Normally you would play such a hand only if you knew you were on to a winner and the powers that be would cave in rather sharpish.
Were the firefighters aware of the utter despair in the Policy Council, and aware that their window dressing that they would not attend a tribunal had worked with the Policy Council?
To an outside observer it is a puzzle as to why the firefighters were suddenly so willing to lose all their income through declaring a full strike, when they could have caused havoc by working to rule and keeping their wages.
Were the firefighters aware a white knight was waiting around the corner? Had there been a leak of the state of panic (as you say “almost paralysed transport system”) that was sweeping over the Policy Council, and the intent to marginalise the PSRC? As you know it is difficult to keep secrets in Guernsey.
Interesting also that the States Head of HR happened to be at the airport meeting. Clearly the Policy Council intervention was not on the spur of the moment but planned. Please don’t say it wasn’t planned and was on the spur of the moment. Think of the political outfall from that!!!!
3 You say “you are suggesting that nobody else should interfere” Nonsense. The conciliation service is there to take matters further.
That is Guernsey law.
An Industrial Tribunal set up by the Bailiff, or even taking emergency action (after all, you were meeting as a States on Tuesday) to make illegal industrial action when the Bailiff had set up a tribunal.
All right the firefighters wouldn’t like it but they can’t have everything their own way. After all they did agree to arbitration in February, even though for legal reasons the PSRC could not enforce it. Not exactly holding the moral high ground are they, when they were given money in return for the promise?
At least the PSRC managed to get a commitment to arbitration even though it was not legally possible. What commitment did the seven get for the cash? A return to work? Yes, but even the marginalised PSRC also managed to get that.
If the media report that the £4000 a year is a retention and recruitment payment is correct it seems reasonable to expect that this would become part of their wages and difficult to stop paying unless sufficient firefighters are recruited to cover all watches during absence.
4 Would the firefighters have ignored a tribunal. Seems daft when their gripe has been that the PSRC has not taken on board their case. They could have had a tribunal waiting to hear from them and they say, according to the Press, that they would stay away. Posturing, I suggest and the posturing clearly worked.
6 You say “Island transport system almost paralysed? Today’s Weekly Press has stories about how disaster recovery programmes have been used to facilitate transport and commerce. Difficult times yes, paralysed no.
Conclusion
Did the Policy Council panic? Looks like
Did the Policy Council have a political agenda? Looks like
Is this another Fallagate ? Could be
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Deputy Jones
At 8.04 pm on May 29 you posted “the difference is we Will have a plan B”
Then 10 miniutes later you post “This agreement is an extension of what was already agreed by PSRC, it wasn’t our solution it was an extension of one that had expired”.
Most of us have twigged the dramatic intervention was an extention of the PSRC deals qnd another temporary agreement sans any proper settlement of the problem.
If a tribunal had met this week we would not be waiting Plan B to be developed. Note your words “we Will have Plan B” not we have plan B.
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Jeep
First of all I am not on the emergency powers group and this situation didn’t happen under my watch as I am not on the PSRC either, of course the PSRC had a clear mandate which was to settle the dispute and the clear direction was to achieve a settlement without any further disruption at the airport and the long suffering traveling public. As to why they went on strike is yet to be made clear and I would say that closing down the airport is one way of winning and that was only possible because there was no plan B by PSRC if the fireman just walked away, which they did. I have asked repeatedly around the PC table every week what happens when this agreement runs out if there is no solution? I was told by the Chairman that in that case the fireman would go to arbitration, that didn’t happen for whatever reason. We were also told that if arbitration failed then there would be a tribunal hearing and we know now that the firemen said they would refuse to attend any tribunal and were closing down the Airport until further notice, the rest as they say is history.
SJ
I don’t think there was a question of panic at the PC because we had been given some assurance by the PSRC that the matter would be resolved the PSRC did not expect the Firemen to retract on arbitration or refuse to have anything to do with a tribunal. Meantime the airport is shut with no date for its reopening,given that situation, it is then starting to develop into an emergency so the EPG talked to PSD who reluctantly agreed to have the temporary arrangement extended to get the airport open immediately. The states head of HR also happens to be the Chief Officer of PSRC which is why he was at the airport that day. The Emergency power group meets at very short notice when it looks like and emergency is developing as you would expect them to do, as for consiliation the airport fireman had already made it clear they were having nothing to do with any of it. I agree that is wrong but the airport is still shut while people whose job it is, argue over it. The temporary agreement is exactly that and we know they at present they are fully staffed with 3 shifts of 10 men, they only need 8 to ensure cat 6 cover, so to me it was never about manning levels it is about other deep rooted grievances that have yet to be resolved. The bottom line John is that we cannot have an airport that is closed for any other reason other than weather. We have a responsibility as a government to make sure our vital air links are not interfered with by anyone. Where next? well in the time we have we will make sure that this dispute is settled permanently and I can tell you, we will have a plan B the next time conflict arises so this situation never happens again.
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John you are not listening, there would have been no tribunal as the FF’s had already said they would not take part in one and instead were reducing the airport to zero cover for an indefinite period.
The PSRC had no plan B because they were relying on the FF to abide by arbitration or the findings of a tribunal both of which were subsequently rejected by the Airport firemen. So we can all wish that wasn’t the case but that was the situation however much you and I protest.
What I said was that in this next 12 month period of negotiations we will, that is the PC make sure that we have a plan B at the end of it, I can’t make it any clearer. .
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Dave Jones says “so the EPG talked to PSD who reluctantly agreed to have the temporary arrangement extended to get the airport open immediately”.
This seems at odds with today’s Press heading
“Firefighters proposed a £4k deal three weeks ago”
“PUBLIC SERVICES did a dramatic U-turn in agreeing to pay firefighters £4,000 to keep the airport open for a year, it emerged yesterday.
The department had already rejected the same deal, which was eventually signed on Wednesday, more than three weeks ago”
Perhaps Bernard Floquet didn’t tell the Policty Council!!!
Dave I think panic or and shafting are appropriate in the circumstances. That is, of course, a personal view.
How professional is it for the PSRC chief officer being present at talks when his political masters and the professional negotiators were kept in the dark.
What a shambles.
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Sunday 31st May should be an interesting phone in on Radio Guernsey, Jones and Spruce!!!! Lets hope we have a no nonsense referee.
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Surely it is government interfering with the safe running of the airport by not financing a full establishment of staff in what is an emergency service. The same happens in all other front line services, and if the goodwill of states employees were withdrawn, people like Dave Jones would be left choking on their rhetoric instead of perpetuating the illusion that Guernsey has leaders and not complete incompetents in charge.
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Imagine the weekly headlines.
Strike enters second week
Strike enters third week
Strike enters fourth week
strikers broken after five weeks
Flybe sues for 7 million
Aurigny sues for 3 million
Blue Island sues for 1 million but will donate it to charity.
Airport short of firefighters 3 off sick two on training seven handed in their notice as they have finally had enough.
I am not a fan of yours but Well done Mr Trott
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Stephen Al Brouard did attend on that day, and yes the PSD did do a U turn in order to get the airport open that is not disputed and yes the same offer was reject several weeks earlier by the PSRC and the PSD but that situation changed dramatically when the firemen CLOSED the airport for an indefinite period, How can the professional negotiators be in the dark when the chairman and his C.O are at the airport on the same day? Are you saying that the airport being open is a shambles?
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Bryn the Airport Fire department is currently fully staffed so I am at a loss to know what you are talking about.
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First of all I am not on the emergency powers group and this situation didn’t happen under my watch as I am not on the PSRC either,
Mr Jones you are either a States Deputy or you are not. You cannot pick and choose the ‘good bits’. To my mind there is NO States member blameless in this sorry debacle. If on every occassion you asked the PC for a Plan B and you were unsuccessful in attaining an appropriate answer then should we not employ someone who CAN get a proper answer?
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Stephen John summarises my key concerns well so I will not repeat them here. There is however a broader point which I should like to raise.
Our Chief Minister and his small band of supporters have taken it upon themselves to disregard our due political process because they clearly feel they have a mandate to do so. They do not.
I would suggest that they need to be reminded in no uncertain terms that they are public servants acting on behalf of the people of Guernsey – and that means acting within the rules and procedures which we, the people of Guernsey, have put in place over the years to ensure we have effective and accountable governance.
OK, so our political processes are sometimes cumbersome and overly-bureaucratic – but the answer to that is to change those processes, not to simply ignore them.
In this particular case their ill considered actions have opened a whole new can of worms. How can we now say to the nurses (who in my opinion are much more deserving than the airport firemen) that they cannot have a big pay hike? And what about all the other States employees who are now looking at the airport firemen with envy?
More broadly, if we let Lyndon Trott get away with this, what will he do next? If we do not challenge him and his cohorts now we are effectively giving them the tacit authority to act as they please in future regardless of what we the electorate thing about it.
Do you trust Lyndon Trott and his associates enough to give them that unfettered authority?
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First of all the members of the Emergency Powers authority are not the CM’s small band of supporters, in fact they disagree on several issues on occasions with the CM and with each other on several matters. This body is mandated to keep a watching brief on developing situations that may have a strategic impact on the island as a whole that is their job. They have not disregarded the political process, nor have they “haven’t taken it upon themselves” to do anything other than what they are required to do when a crisis unfolds, in this case the complete shutdown of our only airport. They are public servants doing what we expect them to do and that is to keep ahead of the situation, in this case making sure that those responsible for keeping the airport open the PSD were aware that this crisis was developing into a full blown emergency and the EPA acted well within the rules of procedures, so trying to personalise this as being deputy Trott’s unfettered authority is simply wishful thinking, there are seven members of the EPA, all of them sensible reasonable people. The offer to the firemen came from the PSD not from the EPA, the EPA supported that offer as it would clearly get the airport open and avoid the prospect of calling an official emergency. They didn’t act as they please as you say, in fact in the end they didn’t act at all because no emergency call was necessary when the fireman agreed to go back to work. So the ill considered actions as you call them of Deputy Trott and the other members of the EPA were to monitor the unfolding crisis and back the PSD’s decision to extend the original agreement for a further 12 months and get the airport open again immediately.
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Dave Jones
I am sorry but I have to take issue with you that this was something that required intervention by the Emergency Powers authority. An act of war, or a natural disaster or even a global flu pandemic may require emergency powers but surely a pay dispute does not.
Don’t get me wrong, I know only too well how important the airport lifeline is to this island – I regularly fly to the UK on business and my wife has recently had to rely on our airport to get her to Southampton for radiotherapy treatment for cancer, so I do know what I am talking about.
Nevertheless, surely it was the PSRC’s job to get this sorted. I agree that they were too slow and too bureaucratic and needed a kick up the pants but, on the other hand, the fire-fighters were not exactly being treated like Victorian miners. We the taxpayers do have a right to ensure that our politicians don’t run roughshod over our political system and it is reasonable for us to expect that public finances are used effectively and not just handed over as ransom money in an industrial pay dispute.
I return to the point I made earlier – now that Mr Trott and his associates have bypassed the due political process and ceded to airport fire-fighter demands, what are they going to say to the nurses who actually do some work when they are on duty and who do not carry out other part time jobs while on call?
It is unlikely the nurses will blackmail us in the same way as the airport fire crews so I guess there will be no need for our Chief Minister to enact Emergency Powers in that case? Or is that not how it works?
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I see Aurigny are likely to sue the airport over the disruption caused by the closure.
So the States owned airline is suing the states.
Wasn’t Aurigny bought in a cloak and dagger fashion as well? Was that an emergency?
Interesting to note on the TV news that one of the tankers “we” bought hasn’t carried a cargo since we bought it…lack of demand for such vessels…which probably means we could have got it for a lot less than we paid for it… or not at all, as clearly we don’t need it either as it’s just sat in a dry dock somewhere.
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Bob
Look at http://www.shipais.com/showship.php?mmsi=236399000 Iif that doesn’t work try http://www.shipais.com abd enter Sarnia liberty in search box)and you will see that Sarnia Liberty had been anchored at Liverpool since 19 January.
Interestingly, the Billet justifying the purchase implied that the ship had plenty of work.
CD
Good points on what is an emergency.
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CD
The Airport being shut for an undetermined period would have been considered as an emergency so the EPA was not considering the matter as a pay dispute that was a peripheral issue. This was about serious disruption to people’s lives and the suffering of many day patients who were prevented from getting to their UK hospital appointments you would know that because your family was caught up in it, the other major consideration was the huge financial costs to the island and individual travelers. The PSRC tried to get this sorted and when they were unable to do so the airport was shut down. The PSD awarded the firemen the extended payment not Dep Trott, he took no part in any pay negotiations whatsoever and that has been well documented, so there was NO emergency power enacted. Nor did the EPA bypass any due political process. As for the nurses and other public sector employees if our economy suffered the hemorrhaging of money due to the closure of the airport that it was doing for very long, there would be no money for anyone.
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Of course the States owned airline will sue the States. Nice bit of overtime for some top civil servants, and their mates at court row can effectively write their own paychecks.
But whose money??
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Steven top civil servants dont get paid overtime they are on fixed saleries regardless of the hours they do.
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Of course they’ve bypassed the due process DJ. Part of the offer was the removal of PSRC from future negotiations on the FF pay settlement. A department mandated to negotiate pay for ALL states employees. If that isn’t LT and co “taking part” as well as a departure from due process, what is?
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Bob and Dave Jones
You have only to read the letter from the Comptroller to see that, on the advice of the HR man the PSRC was sidelined because he beieved that the money offered to the frefighter was not remuneration.
Mr Elliott also pointed out that as the PSRC was concerned with remuneration and conditions it could be by passed.
Whilst the Comptroller initially accepted this advice and stands by his opinion that the PSD could negotiate with the firefighters.
Towards the end of his letter he isn’t nearly as certain about his initial opinion and has come to recognise that there is a sound argument that the money offered was indeed remuneration.
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Bob & Stephen, the statement from the CM and HM Comptrollers letter lays the whole thing out and I have nothing further to add to those statements, the airport is open no one broke the rules and negotiations will continue till a satisfactory conclusion is reached of that I am sure.
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Dave Jones
The letter from the Comptroller laays the story out from his perspective and seems a reasonable precis of what happened, including his concerns as to the term remuneration and the pivotal role played by the word.
There must be a Tribunal to consider the whole matter and to judge whether the advice of the Head of Human Resources that the money payment was remuneration or not.
Any tribunal will need to look very closely at the significant softening of the view of the Comptroller, and his taking on board the merits of the contra arguement – that the payment could be regarded as remuneration. This tempered opinion was different to his earlier support of the view of the Head of HR.
Whatever stance one takes on this the question of whether rules were broken is very much a real one.
As the CM says in his letter, it will be a matter for the Tribunal
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“no one broke the rules”
Now where have I heard that recently?
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Deputy Jones,
If the FF at the airport are up to establisment, then why is there a need to rely on goodwill to keep the service running?
That does not make sense.
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Bryn, your question would be better directed at the Airport Firemen I can only tell you what Deputy Spruce who is a member of PSD have told me and that is at present there is 3 full shifts
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SJ
I welcome a full blown public enquiry by an independent Chair, not just a Tribunal, an enquiry which will be held in public with the media and all other interested parties there to hear the evidence.
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BRYN: they need goodwill to keep the service running in case there is sickness or staff shortages for any reason. If there are shortages then they need someone to come in on overtime. As there was never any compulsory overtime and nobody was contracted to do it they had to rely on goodwill for it to be done. As the goodwill was abused so much and retention problems over the last few years got so bad everyone got fed up of doing it.
At the moment we have signed up to guarantee the minimum Category for one year on the understanding that all the problems are sorted by then.
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I would guess (and that is all it is) is that although they may now be up to full complement they still have to cover each others holidays, training and any sickness. They also have to have some sort of rota to work out who is going to be called in at night if there is an emergency flight or air/sea rescue needing to take off and land?
Until the ff get on-call pay then perhaps this will remain goodwill after the £4,000 ‘sweetener’ has run out in 12 months time!
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Deputy Jones,
Do you agree that if a service can only function on goodwill then it is obviously not appropriately staffed?
I assume that you will as it is common sense.
That is not an issue for the already employed firemen but an issue for their employers.
This Government has once again let the people of this island down through ineptitude, short termism and more than a little manipulation of the rules. Believe me, I have no time whatsoever for Mr Le Cras, but to blame the employees in this case is crass.
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SM,
I think I already knew but thanks for the clarification. It is no different in lots of other services that the public believe or are led to believe are fully staffed and that all is well. The abuse of goodwill and reliance on it is not unique and nothing short of disgraceful.
I can understand the general public not realising this but It is rather worrying that some senior politicians don’t appear to have this insight or knowledge.
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A very good and lively discussion especialy as at last the role of civil servants that have been responsible for advising the politicians on the PSRC during this crisis have been brought into the open and their role in this debacle questioned.
The only thing missing from it is of how this situation going to be resolved in a way which will result in a fully manned remotivated airport fire service!.
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BRYN: I think the senior politicians responsible must be very blinkered if not blind if they don’t realise the problem we have of not having a system in place to cover shortages of staff whether it be sickness, training or retention. This was first brought to their attention on Liberation Day 2006 when nobody wanted to work overtime at short notice and so a Station Officer (Civil Servant) had to cover the position of a Firefighter (Public Service Employee) to prevent a drop to Cat 5. I know this will probably come as a great shock to people but would you believe nothing was done to try and sort this out! (in case anyone didn’t realise that bit was sarcastic.
Hopefully now after desperate measures were unfortunately taken this will be sorted once and for all. We certainly don’t enjoy this dragging on and on, never knowing what is going to done, if anything.
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Dave Jones. Point taken that top civil servants don’t get overtime.
It was just me being cynical. So completely out of character for me I wondered what had caused it. The conclusion I came to was all this talk concerning States Workers remuneration and the PSRC.
It just appears to me that the civil service never seem to have to go to arbitration or need a tribunal set up to discuss a cost of living increase in their salaries. Whereas the States Manual Workers are always having a problem.
I have noticed, and this may be where the problem arises, that instead of using a whole years figures to work out the rise in the cost of living, just one month is used, and a different month is used for the civil service as is used for the manual workers.
Now this is the bit that really feeds my cynical nature.
It would appear to me, and I do stand to be corrected, that the months that have been used to base the civil servants pay increases have consistently shown a bigger rise in the cost of living than the months used for the manual workers calculations.
If the above is correct would it be too cynical of me to assume that the body responsible for the calculation of the rise in the cost of living on a monthly basis is the civil service?
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Steven and DJ – they don’t get paid overtime – but now they’ll want a retention and recruitment payment of some kind, to compensate for the abuse of goodwill – after all, it isn’t apparently included in their remuneration!
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Stephen John – the Comptroller’s letter doesn’t seem to address the issue of removal of PSRC from FUTURE negotiations on FF pay (part of the deal, according to the FF), which would clearly be remuneration, in hindsight or otherwise.
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pending a full review of their
jobs under a different negotiating team.
Bob
The CM makes reference to future negotiations when he says in an answer “pending a full review of their jobs under a different negotiating team”
As terms and conditions come under the mandate of the PSRC the implication of the CM’s comment is clear.
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As terms and conditions come under the mandate of the PSRC the implication of the CM’s comment is clear.
Not True SJ the PSRC staff are employed by the States HR department and it is they who decides who works where, not committee chairmen or their committee.
PS. Stephen I thank you for your comments on another thread and I am always happy to banter with you.
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Deputy Dave Jones
I am direcftly quoting what the CM said regarding future negotiations.
“pending a full review of their jobs under a different negotiating team”.
Does this mean that the PSRC will negotiate but with different negotiaters?
Or does it mean a new negotiating body replacing PSRC?
From the wording and the context I assume it is the later.
But I was wrong before in believing the firefighters would honour their agreement to go to arbitration when they went into dispute by stopping work. I don’t really care whether the agreement was “legal” or not – I would still expect them to keep their promise, moral or legal.
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