Airport firemen demand apology for ‘planned sick leave outburst’
Wednesday 3rd June 2009, 2:29PM BST.
AIRPORT firefighters have demanded a public apology from Deputy Sam Maindonald over her comment that they ‘went on planned sick leave’.
‘This is a malicious and slanderous comment with no backing or proof,’ said a spokesman.
‘This and her comment inciting other departments to strike are wholly unacceptable for a person in her position and we would like a public apology through the Guernsey Press.’
Deputy Maindonald (pictured) had acted inappropriately for someone in her position, he added.
‘Due to her position she has a duty to base any statements like this on fact and shouldn’t be making angry outbursts through the media. Making comments born out of rage is not a trait that a States deputy should possess.’
The firefighters also resented comments Deputy Maindonald – a paralegal at Carey Olsen, according to her declaration of interests – made about their lives outside their firefighting roles.
The airport firefighters were criticised by Deputy Maindonald for having two jobs.
‘What we do in our own time does not really have anything to do with anybody else,’ he said. ‘Deputy Maindonald has two jobs, yet it appears that is OK for her – one rule for one and one for another.’
- To read Guernsey Press stories in full click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
Island Life
All about Guernsey
Ambassador of the Year 2011
History & Heritage
Visitor Information
Guernsey's government
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
Useful Links
Poor firemen…
Well the truth always hurts..
Would another 4k each stop it hurting
Report abuse
Being emotional doesn’t help the feminist cause!
As for the name calling the ‘firefighters’ playing all hurt is a bit rich!
Report abuse
Deputy Maindonald acted completely irresponsibly when she suggested that other public services should follow the actions of the airport firefighters. Although I’m sure the comment was slightly tongue in cheek those in public office should be aware of their responsibilities and also how their words can be misunderstood.
As for the comment about “planned sick leave” – I’m sure many of us have harboured suspicions and it would be hypocritical to suggest we haven’t made similar comments. Nevertheless, it is unbecoming of a States Deputy to make such accusations without proof. Such comments are worthy of Friday night gossip in the pub over a few pints, they are not worthy of a Deputy.
Perhaps with her Legal experience Deputy Maindonald should consider her words a bit more carefully.
Report abuse
The last time Guernsey’s government capitulated so quickly it was the Luftwaffe who were up at the airport, this time it was the firemen and yet here they are, all sensitive and upset at suggestions that this might have been a deliberate ploy to extort extra cash….well if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, chances are that it is indeed a duck!
I can’t imagine anyone has any doubt that this was all about avoiding “grown up” negotiation and arbitration in favour of good old fashioned ultimatum politics.
If the real issues were about working conditions and staffing levels etc then surely the FF’s had a good chance of arriving at a result without causing the chaos or “coincidence” of bank holiday+school holiday+staff illness and, ultimately a full blown staff walkout when they weren’t creating enough disruption as airlines shuffled passengers on to flights away from the troubled shifts. How does a £4k bung suddenly make all these grievances go away?
You don’t have to be cynical to see what happened here and regardless of the FF’s grievances, real or imagined, this was all about money, not principle.
The ineffective and dithering PRSC appears to have been a useful smokescreen for the FF’s (no pun intended) and it is disappointing that Government intervention didn’t happen earlier, when it was obvious PRSC, for whatever reason, were incapable of resolving this.
The FF’s do themselves and their cause no favours by playing the injured party, after they got exactly what they wanted.
Lets see what happens next.
Report abuse
CARTS: A ’4K bung’ makes it go away as there is now a signed legal doument to ensure cover of Cat 6 for a year and also stating the problems have been acknowledged and understood and through a new negotiating body every endeavour will be made to sort it out.
As for Government intervention sorting it out earlier, we did contact the Chief Minister about a month or so ago to intervene but nothing was done.
Anyway must go, some people are throwing bread at me…quack quack!
Report abuse
Airport firemen demand apology for ‘planned sick leave outburst’. Oh yes? And what will they do if they don’t get it? Go on strike?
Report abuse
What are the firefighters going to do if they don’t get their apology?
Take more planned sick leave until they get a result?
Don’t dare say sorry to them Deputy Sam. 90 per cent plus of the island will think less of you if you do!
Report abuse
Perhaps the firefighters would like to issue individual public apologies for ruining family holidays so that they could get more money ….
Report abuse
Carts – You say you find it hard to imagine anyone has any doubt that this was about avoiding arbitration. This is typical of many of the posters on all the different threads we’ve seen on this debate. I find it hard to imagine that you are in possesion of all the facts and are basing your arguement on the coverage in the GP. Perhaps you had travel plans upset and are just grinding your axe, either way you are wrong and an inquiry will prove it. Getting back to the reason for this thread if you read the full article in the GP it says at the end that Deputy Maindonald was misquoted by the GP. Perhaps Mr Digard and Deputy Maindonald could decide who is responsible so that an apology can be made by the guilty party.
Report abuse
Surely the people of Guernsey need an apology from the Fire Fighters
Report abuse
So Deputy Maindonald says that the airport fire plan their sickness, I expect if they get swine flu she’ll claim she’s seen them hanging around pig styes!.
Report abuse
“through a new negotiating body”
Interesting SM. So even before Al Brouard resigned and he had informed the States LT told you that PSRC would be disbanded?
Wow. He has some power that man
Report abuse
This really does take the biscuit. What will the strikers do if they don’t get their apology? Strike again until they get a result?
Stick by your guns Deputy Sam and don’t even think of saying sorry to that lot. As others have pointed out, it is they who owe us an apology.
Report abuse
No Martyn
WE should be apologising to the firefighters for electing Deputies that OBVIOUSLY place NO VALUE on their employees. So little value that they are forced to alienate the public.
Maindonald was crass and unprofessional. She even has the temerity to blame someone else.
Here she is previously complaining that £80k is a middle income and that we couldn’t possible burden any more social security on these close-to-poverty earners when the firefighters get pittance in comparison.
Yet they are vital, are they not?
Report abuse
SM and Cliff, I’ll be the first to apologise to the FF’s if the “inquiry” proves this to be anything other than it appears to be and it appears to be about a small group of employees who are incapable of negotiating with a small group of employers who are also incapable of negotiating. This quickly turns into “handbags at dawn” with neither side prepared to be realistic or reasonable and the end result is that one side gets a huge bonus for holding the island to ransom and the other side slink back into the shadows, apparently blameless for their actions.
Employee/Employer relations can be strained at times in the private sector and this is why we have employment contracts, employment protection and third party intervention from arbitration specialists and legal professionals.
What I don’t understand is why use a last resort action, like the total withdrawal of labour, before properly trying the other options? If you have a genuine case then you will win it….if you don’t have a genuine case then you obviously won’t.
Everyone involved in this sorry episode, from employees, PSRC, the battery of adviser’s (on both sides) the employer and even the CM, should hang their heads in shame at the way this has played out.
Report abuse
“Interesting SM. So even before Al Brouard resigned and he had informed the States LT told you that PSRC would be disbanded?”
Jackie: I can’t see anywhere in my post where I stated or implied that. I think you are trying to twist every post into saying what you would like it to say. The temporary contracts for us to sign were drawn up after CM announced the authorisation of the big 4K bung and thus after Al Brouard put his resignation up for debate in the hope that everyone would beg and grovel for him to stay.
Report abuse
The cheek of it! One would think after all they’ve done causing almost the entire population of Guernsey to despise them, they wouldnt be bringing more attention to themselves! No where else in the world would this happen.
Report abuse
Nobody forced them to alienate the public Arnald. They did that of their own free will and it was very bad will at that.
I do agree that Deputy Maindonald’s comment inviting other departments to follow their example was crass and unprofessional, even if it was tongue in cheek.
Her comment about planned sick leave was bang on though!
Report abuse
SM. You said
>>there is now a signed legal doument to ensure cover of Cat 6 for a year and also stating the problems have been acknowledged and understood and through a new negotiating body every endeavour will be made to sort it out.<<
You imply that in the discussion you had with LT he promised that a new negotiation body would exist. This says to me LT promised to get rid of PSRC because when he was talking to you PSRC existed. When he was talking to you PSRC was responsible for negotiating pay. Nothing twisted in what I said. And I didn’t imply anything. You said the CM promised to find you a ‘new negotiating body’. You said that, not me.
Now don’t go on another strike because someone said something you didn’t like.
Report abuse
Martyn
Let’s assume that the ‘planned sickness’ did happen (although doesn’t a doctor need to sign off?).
Surely all it highlights is that there was no cover?
How can we run an airport with not enough firefighters? Why weren’t there enough firefighters? Weren’t the employers aware of this? What have they done to improve the situation?
Instead of ignorant politicians slagging off essential workers, maybe they should be tapping up their colleagues first.
Report abuse
Janckie: What are you on, sweetheart! I never implied anything about discussions with LT. The temporary agreement/document was discussed and signed during a meeting the next day. A meeting that LT was not even present at.
As you can’t even get your own name right it is unlikely you are going to get any of the facts right:)
Report abuse
Janckie/Jackie: You say “You said the CM promised to find you a ‘new negotiating body’. You said that, not me.”
In my post that you are referring to I never actually even mention the CM when talking about the new agreement. For your information the new agreement is between the Firefighters and the Airport Management, not that I need to explain myself to you. I think it is pointless me even correcting you in any future postings as you obviously will continue to make up whatever ‘facts’ you want so as to enable you to continue your hate campaign. I don’t mind people being critical but at least be critical based on true facts not those from Jackieland.
Report abuse
SM
Whoever said what and to whom, the fact remains that the CM in his question and answer document says “pending a full review of their jobs under a different negotiating team”.
So, he certainly believes you will face a new negotiating team.
Report abuse
SM, well if i’m the only one shouting PSRC’s corner while your mob and rabid Le Cras grabbed every media spot possible, then so be it. :)
It’s been fun gentlemen. No hate campaign, just not lettin blaggers get away with blackmailing the people of the islan.
Off on holiday tomorrow with hussy and the boys. see you all in two weeks :)
Report abuse
The FF want a public apology?
FFS.
Teehee…..
I’ll pen it.
“Dear overly sensitive Firemen, We the people of Guernsey are very sorry that you shut down the island because you are greedy and we are going to ignore the children awaiting cancer treatment, the dying relatives that spent their last days alone and all the tourists stranded on one side of the channel or the other that will never be back.
Instead have a pat on the back, £4,000 and rest assured once your money has been spent feel free to have a day off again to raise some more ca$h.
Yours,
Guernsey.
P.S.
What goes around comes around.
Report abuse
To quote a firefighters’ spokesman ( unless the Press got it completely wrong ( as if … ))
” ‘What we do in our own time does not really have anything to do with anybody else,’ he said. ‘Deputy Maindonald has two jobs, yet it appears that is OK for her – one rule for one and one for another.’ ”
Obviously I must be missing something, but isn’t the firefighters’ main greivance not money, but having to constantly work their days off, and doing double shifts ? So where do they find all this ‘free time’ to do their second jobs ?
And do the other employees at their second jobs have to work days off and do double shifts to cover …. ?
And so on and so on ….
It’s a miracle anyone on this island ever gets any time off ………..
Report abuse
HMHB
The Trumpton Riots?
Report abuse
They demand an apology?? How about the residents of Guernsey demand an apology from them for purposely disrupting our airport, for acting like spoilt toddlers when they don’t get their own way and throwing their dummies out the pram by striking and purposely trouble making to cause maximum disruption.
How often do we have big problems that require firemen at our airport? thankfully hardly ever. The airport firemen do NOT deserve a pay rise, why should they get more money? It’s the Guernsey fire brigade that serve our island and should be rewarded as such, can’t the airport firemen be scrapped and replaced by the Guernsey firemen on a rota?
Report abuse
LAURA: Nice solution Einstein.
Report abuse
Well this whole mess will financially impact on the islanders for some while as many visitors won’t be returning. But whoever is to blame for the eventual outcome, although both parties come out badly it’s the small traders (and the tax revenue) who suffer. But lets face it, the firefighters at the airport don’t do half as much work as people in real jobs so they could easily recruit a couple of extra people and the employers should ensure that they are properly covered, how would they stand up with a flu epidemic? I understand there is a massive waiting list of people to step into the jobs but the way to cover this is simple. If it’s “Essential” then they should open the jobs to UK residents and offer them essential employee housing status. Then auction 3 jobs. Yes, there are approximately 4 million people sat in the UK on redundancy payments and after whittling down the applicants through normal application proceedings, just auction the job. A lot of people would pay a serious amount for a job paying £25,000 a year, with generous conditions a pension proviso and the fact that they actually won’t be fighting too many fires. Simple. But to be honest you could fill all of those jobs with volunteer “retained” firefighters. You’d be able to have a superb fire fighting force like they have in many rural UK areas and more seriously in many areas of Australia and they would have more staff than they have at present working for free, with pride. This isn’t fantasy, I’ve worked with the SES in Melbourne when the forest fires were raging and they are trained to perfection and nearly all were retained. Think on.
Report abuse
In reply to Manxvisitor. Hmm SES in Melbourne trained to perfection? Before you dare harp on about this Island believe me, I am thinking on. I have vast experience in retained firefighting in Australia and also wholetime Firefighters and I am talking aviation firefighters. You obviously do not. I think you really are living in fantasy land, have you not heard of response time which in the event of a plane crash on the airfield is two minutes not exeeding three minutes? How would the so-called ‘retained’ Mr Le Page digging his new potatoes in Torteval, or Mr Ogier picking his tomatoes in St Peters going to respond in this time? The retained bushfire brigade are no way trained as proffesionally as the Australian aviation firefighters. Essential housing status? Did I not read about a qualified airport firefighter who was not able to stay in Guernsey because he was not local! A massive waiting list of people, don’t make me laugh,they must be queing at the door surely? £25,000 a year,(is it) generous conditions, and pension proviso not forgetting that they do not put out many fires! Do the Guernsey Airport Firefighters not train as would the Australian Aviation Fire Service would? I know for a fact that they do.(please see airservices Australia website and also serco UK website to update your little knowledge). Oh I know lets give these positions to Mr Johnny or Miss Joanna Foreigner. Can the Island take any more foreigners ? Of course it can, go on take them on and get rid of the locals. By the way Manxvisitor? how much are the Isle of Man airport firefighters on (I believe to be a category six airfield same as Guernsey) Perhaps you could enlighten SM.
Report abuse
Ok, lets all gree that we’re never going to agree on this one and try, at least, to find a solution, that will have a chance of lasting.
I made a suggestion in another thread on the subject that the FF’s should look to obtaining a contrcat for their services from the States in the same manner as the Medical Specilaist Group has done. The FF’s would then be in total control of their working conditions, and would have a defined specification of what the States were expecting them to provide for the contract price (a service level agreement). I really believe this could work. Sure, it won’t be easy, and there will have to be a lot of negotiating going on, but the MSG manage to do this, the service is good and the Island gets value for money, so why not?
Report abuse
Privatising the Fire Service is dumb. There isn’t a commercialised service in Guernsey that hasn’t cost the taxpayer more. Great for the directors/partners crap for the taxpayer.
Next?
Report abuse
I beg to differ. The contract between the States and the MSG has worked extremely well, otherwise why would the cash strapped States keep on renewing it. No, they know that they are on to a good thing, when they see it. I was intially against the contract, but I see the benefits of it now, to the whole Island. By the same token, a contract between the FF’s and the “Island” would benefit all concerned, and provide a reliable, effective and dedicated emergency service.
Report abuse
Martini says “The contract between the States and the MSG has worked extremely well, otherwise why would the cash strapped States keep on renewing it”
It’s worked extremely well for the consultants!! Not so sure re the taxpayer!!!
Martini askd Why has the cash strapped States continued to renew the contract.
Simple answer they have to. No other option. Bit like the firefighters really but in a more cultured way.
Report abuse
I agree completely Stephen, but you have to admit that the States don’t have the hassle (and believe me it is a hassle) of constant problems with housing licences, recruiting, salaries, benefits etc etc etc. All they have to do is specify what level of service they expect for the fee they pay (as with the MSG) and it would be up to Firefighters Ltd. to provide it. Part of the contract would obviously include a “no strike” agreement, but as the firefighters would all be “shareholders” in their own company, they would never get to this stage. Ok, the contract won’t be cheap, but has anybody worked out EXACTLY what airport fire cover costs? Buildings, equipment, training, salaries, insurance et etc – I’ll bet the overall price would stun many. Part of the States negotiating position would, of course, be to try to reduce this overall cost, or at least have any increases justified and agreed by them in advance. I still haven’t seen a solid reason why this shouldn’t be considered!
Report abuse
Martini
I think your suggestion for the firefighters is worthy of consideration as a possible Plan B.
That must be worth a few hundred thousand grand of consultancy fees for you (LOL)
Report abuse
Martini
Its a great idea in principle however…..
You are forgetting that these 2 groups cannot even negotiate basic salary and working conditions without it rumbling on for a lenghthy period which eventually resuled in a strike
We could never expect them to agree on the minutiae that setting up an MSG style agreement would require.
Sad but I really think it would never get past the first week.
Report abuse
I think it is worthy of consideration but comparing it to the MSG is a bit of a misnomer. The ff (I presume) are not wealthy – unlike Consultants who pre-MSG were already earning high salaries as all healthcare was private. No doubt they are still making large profits with so many finance companies paying for private health insurance etc for their staff. The doctors who set up MSG had to pay for the MSG building and buy shares in the company and also pay the salaries of their staff.
I do think that the MSG is one of the best things that the island ever did though – many many islanders have benefitted from healthcare that they would otherwise have either done without or been in debt for many years. I know as my parents were paying off their medical fees for years for surgery they needed.
Report abuse
So your brainwave is based on the premise that government cannot manage people so privatise it?
That’s exactly how we lost GTelecoms.
Talk about weak. You should stand Martini, you would be amongst friends.
Report abuse
Tredders go to this webpage http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/personnel/Whitley/ax09complete.pdf and look under the heading of airport workers you will see the following information under firemen.
Trainee Fireman
414.05
Qualified Fireman
578.14
598.45
618.80
639.15
Leading Fireman
756.62
Which for a qualified fireman means from just over 30,000 to 33235 a year.
Report abuse
Merlin, yes, you do have a point about costs, but don’t forget, the building at the airport is substantially smaller, and requires far fewer, if any administrative staff so the “back room” costs will be minimal. The doctors at the MSG have to make a large financial investment into the business when they are offered a “partnership”, but whilst the cost of the vehicles for the FF’s will be high, their building costs will be low, so I would see their investment as being substantially less. Yes, it will require courage, but it will also give the Island a group of motivated, highly trained professional men who, becuase of their on-going involvement in their own company, will be more inclined towards effective contractual negotiations. After all, no contract, no money!
Report abuse
Moo, Thank god we lost Telecoms. We’d still have a hugely over manned ineffective stone age phone system otherwise!
Report abuse
The Man: One thing’s for sure, when your entire salary (no union strike pay) depends on completing a contract by a certain date, you are REALLY motivated to compromise. By the same token, the FF’s could still legally refuse to work once their contract had expired, so the States are REALLY motivated to compromise too. Two compromises equals one agreement in my book. I believe that it is only when both sides believe the other is being intransigent that we get to the point we did recently.
Report abuse
Tredders I didn’t put for who’s firemen these pay rates are for the, it’s the Isle of Man , yes the Manx airport firemens pay. The document is dated May 2009.
Report abuse
Be interesting to know how the ff jobs are evaluated – are they the same as civil servants (I think they use Hay). I would guess that they are not using the same system which is why a civil servant admin bod with little training and responsibility can be on more than a ff. I do seem to remember some mention that the ff were told by the PSRC that they are not professionals but just manual workers! I have nothing against manual workers – they work very very hard but they do not have to have regular training which their job depends on. I think it was this unsubtle insult that finally led to the ff walking out (which is not excuse) but i can understand how undervalued they must have felt.
All public sector workers should be evaluated using the same system to make it fair and equitable.
Report abuse