‘If not executive government, then what?’ asks Harwood
Tuesday 9th June 2009, 11:30AM BST.
ADVOCATE Peter Harwood has challenged the 27 deputies who signed a letter rejecting executive government to come up with a better idea.
Mr Harwood (pictured) headed the panel that reviewed Guernsey’s machinery of government before the 2004 changes and believes executive government should be adopted then.
He said he had read the letter in Saturday’s Guernsey Press with interest.
The letter stated that the signatories wished to assure islanders that they remained unequivocally opposed to executive government and supportive of consensus government, although it admitted the latter was imperfect.
‘It is interesting to note they agree with my view that the present system isn’t working properly,’ said Mr Harwood.
‘However, before rejecting the concept of executive government, I would be interested to see what alternative proposals they can come up with.’
He said the original proposals had been ‘fudged’ by the States and what Guernsey had ended up with was not working.
‘I still believe we have to have some form of executive government – it’s the only appropriate way of having leadership and effective accountability.’
- To read Guernsey Press stories in full click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
Concensus, for all its ills, is a better check against power hungry egocentrics than an executive in the hands of power hungry egocentrics?
You might be interested in ‘the alternative proposals’ but if you understood the letter it would appear the majority of the Assembly are happy with what we have.
Not sure if the concept of democracy has passed you, Mr Harwood, by but that letter was it in a nutshell.
Can we now govern on issues of import rather and bury the Harwood report once and for all?
Report abuse
Even if I believed executive government was right there is no chance of it working at the present with some of the individuals who would inevitably get on the cabinet.
In my view it will only even be able to be contemplated, not necessarily implemented, when we can be assured of leaders who have sound political, economic and sociological skills, who have foresight, wisdom and the ability to think beyond the bubble that constrains many, and who are people who can be trusted to take Guernsey forward as a community of people. A community of people that encompasses a society where value and trust are paramount, where there is social responsibility, and which is supported, not governed, by a strong economy.
Apologies to those politicians who already possess the skills above but I don’t believe there are enough of you at the moment.
Report abuse
the system may not be perfect and it should be altered,carefully over time after debate and thoughtful decision making. i think the problem people have with exec. government is the idea of business lobby groups having too much influence over the needs of the whole population, also too few holding power. personnaly i think the politicians with the supposed top jobs are not popular and the whole voting system would need to change before we had this form of government. i would want a say in who is cm and dcm if they are to hold more clout.mr trott is good at shmoozing people off the island and playing himself as being a big fish over here but when he has to debate with people who share the states with him he is terrible at it.(comments to the bailiff, barry brehaut for example) surely he cannot have more power,first among equals indeed.b flouquet also can’t talk to people properly to be given more power, another round of ‘gags’ to get the party started!new ideas are floated at chamber of commerce meetings or iod lunches by the treasury.mr and mrs bloggs are not invited or asked their opinions.gsy is run for everyone on gsy, consensus means everyone is equal,one vote each. without top to bottom change exec. gov won’t work.it may not be the best but whilst their are so many egos running things it is a good way to keep checks on them. these are just my thoughts, you would need to ask mr digard from the press for the islands opinion as he seems to be sure he knows wht the island thinks, or ask submarine who have asked some business people on their mailing list for an opinion.i just think to give out more power means having the right people in charge, these aren’t they and the ones who would be right would not want the job.
Report abuse
It is not for Advocate Harwood to ask the deputies to come up with an alternative to the current model, it is for him and the proponents of change to come up with a model that suits Guernsey better than either the current system or the style of executive government proposed previously.
Just because the deputies are honest enough to acknowledge that the current system is not perfect, this does not mean that Adv. Harwood’s previously rejected proposals are correct.
Given the small size of the electorate, I cannot think of anything less suited to this island than to have party politics, with deputies being elected on the basis of which of two camps they sit in, with the winning camp getting absolute control for 4 years.
Decisive leadership is all very well, but not when it amounts to a dictatorship of the select few.
Report abuse
Even if we were to agree that Advocate Harwood does not have the right to ask the question, it is all the same, a good question and one worthy of discussion.
Report abuse
In reality I don’t see a huge difference between the current system and the “executive government” system proposed by the Harwood report. Ultimately both work on the principle that the power to make decisions affecting all is given to a few. All this debate is about is the number of the few.
In fact it’s worth reminding ourselves that we already live with a form of executive government. Decisions that have an effect on the entire population are made by only 47 people. True government by consensus would require an island-wide referendum on each decision currently made in the States.
Personally I support a more executive style of government, although as Valdubon pointed out the calibre of people to fill that government would become of far greater importance. That’s up to the electorate to decide though.
Report abuse
The States have proved that a “consensus” type of government results in confusion and non-achievement.
For an executive system to work however requires intelligence and foresight, something in short supply so who does peter Harwood have in mind?
Report abuse
@a good question and one worthy of discussion.@
No its not. He had his chance and blew it. He’s been told again and still won’t listen. What does it take to shut this man up?
Report abuse
Moo
When I said it was a question worthy of consideration, I was referring to the wider community, including You Shout, discussing the issue.
Report abuse
Harwood is right that executive government is best.
And the 27 Deputies are equally right that consensus government is best.
How can both be right? Simple. It depends what you want.
Running Guernsey like it was a private company, which is I think what executive government is, cuts short the discussion and lets the executive get on with making their decisions and implementing them. Very efficient, so long as the decisions are well-informed, well-thought out, and in the best interests of the community.
Consensus government is slow, prone to changes of mind as the issues become clearer, and will nevertheless sometimes get it wrong.
Take your choice.
Report abuse
An alternative
Hmmmmm.
How about direct democracy.
Ohh right, that would mean too many poor people with a say on how the rich mans island should be run.
Report abuse
The public aren’t very bright and they vote in equally lacking reps. A few smiles at an old lady, some incinerator protest and a charity bash and you are in.
Report abuse
Why is the press always putting big businesses view all the time.The editor is not the voice of the islanders, he is the voice of big business.
The press should try to put both sides of the story rather than a bias one.
On executive government, was buying two tankers and giving firemen £4,000, the kind of decisions that would happen more often.
Report abuse
“On executive government, was buying two tankers and giving firemen £4,000, the kind of decisions that would happen more often”
Oh it would be worse than that. Planning decisions on green field sites, incinerators etc. The idea of ‘builders’ being in charge of the island should send shivers down every Guernseyman’s spine.
There are a whole rake of things that would have to be in place to protect the people including anti-corruption legislation with the same teeth as the anti-drug legislation. Along with FOI and mechanisms that can get rid of the executive on regular basis.
We are a society of people not share certificates with a Board of Directors. More a cooperative. Admittedly uncooperative sometimes but better that than a totalitarian board.
Just look at Jersey
Report abuse
Peter Harwood is entirely right to raise this subject again.
The system we currently have is a fudge – people have titles but not any meaningful power. Any system which allows such dithering in decision making that the current one enables is just not fit for purpose in the 21st century. Witness the endless debates and about turns on policy for a waste plant.
There needs to be an executive with ministers who have the power to propose policy and enact and not a committee system. Of course there needs to be a counterweight and parliamnetary scrutiny but at the end of the day minsiters should stand or fall by their decisions. Government needs to be able to respond more quickly to the demands of today not plod along slowly whilst 47 people all take the decision.
The real question is does the island actually want to be led ?
Report abuse
Mark – I for one certainly don’t want to be led, I want to be represented. There’s a big difference and it’s much more democratic.
Report abuse
Mark
Where would the checks and balance come from if the States were slimmed down and we had executive goverment? in any event we must have island wide voting first.
Report abuse
“The real question is does the island actually want to be led ? ”
I sometimes think that the majority of people just WANT to go round in circles and not make any decisions. Or is it just no-one wants to take responsibility for their decisions!
Report abuse
Mark said “The system we currently have is a fudge – people have titles but not any meaningful power….
There needs to be an executive with ministers who….should stand or fall by their decisions.”
Surely Mark has it the wrong way round? The titles of ‘Minister’ were arrived at from considerations of how our politicians were viewed from outside the island. Moving from slightly obscure titles to completely erroneous and misleading ones was always going to be a mistake.
Arguing, as Mark does, that the solution is to rearrange our political system to cover up the error is putting the cart before the horse, or the title before the role.
The possibility of having Ministers who might fall by their decisions is a pretty remote and forlorn wish in this island. Remember the Conseiller system, and how hard it was to get rid of it, whereby the Consieillers were elected by the States and not by the electorate so that they might take decisions without fear of losing their seats?
Report abuse
When I first came to Guernsey I thought that the consensual system was odd. I was not used to seeing members of the same department having a verbal spat in the pages of the Press, I was not used to seeing Deputies voting against proposals put forward by their own department. I was used to cabinet responsibility and decisive (if often misguided) decisions.
But the more I came to understand the island and its political system, the more I became convinced that it is the only system that will really work here (albeit imperfectly).
Executive government is only democratic if the electorate gets a say as to which group of people will those with executive powers be chosen from. To hark back to the UK as the comparison that most will be familiar with, 99% of the electorate vote for the party rather than the local politician. They chose which group of individuals will form the government, and which party political leader will control them. They know what that group of people stands for.
How on earth can an executive be created in Guernsey unless we get a say in who makes up that executive? We vote for individuals, not parties and we will have no idea what the collective view of a States appointed executive would be. There will be no party manifesto – nothing that we can we point to and say “We did not elect you to do this”. They will be unaccountable because their collective view was not in our minds when we voted.
The current system has many faults, but creating an unelected power base is fundamentally undemocratic.
Report abuse