Rival waste plans ‘gaining support’
Tuesday 7th July 2009, 11:30AM BST.
A campaign against Public Services’ proposed solid waste plant is gathering momentum.
It looks increasingly likely that an alternative plan will be taken to the States after Rupert Dorey, who has led a group of businessmen and environmentalists opposing PSD, announced he would present their idea to deputies and islanders at three meetings next week.
And Stan Brouard managing director Rodney Brouard has reported strong support for his campaign to ship waste to Jersey’s incinerator.
Mr Dorey (pictured) said he would ask supportive deputies to take his ‘Rational Alternative’ into debate.
‘PSD’s costs are so outrageously high, they are completely and utterly irresponsible,’ he said.
Company director Mr Dorey said they had a far cheaper and greener alternative that would make the States money, rather than lose it.
The initial cost would be around £19m. rather than the £93m.-plus quoted by Public Services and preferred tenderers Suez, he said.
‘And it will contribute £3m. per year to Guernsey, rather than a £1.5m. loss per year at least that Suez’s option will create.’
He said Public Services’ proposal would cost each household about £5,000 in tax over 25 years.
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Bit of a ‘No Brainer’ really…….
The maths says it all.
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Fabulous, at last drive and vision to sort the waste out alternatively. Thank you for having people prepared to invest their time to find other solutions.
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The plans that the PSD have put forward, is not for a 40,000 ton incinerator, but a 69,000 ton mass waste incinerator, and the only items they will recycle would be metal. Read their proposals and pamphlets, you will see that I am right. If you believe in recycling, and trying to save the planet, then what Mr Dorey and Mr Brouard are trying to do I think is the way forward. Sooner or later we will have to start sharing our resources with Jersey. Why not start with their incinerator?
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In my book, there is another plan on the table apart from the PSD & Dorey propositions. I attended a superb presentation this evening at St Martins Community Centre hosted by Deputy David De Lisle. The speaker was Dr Dick van Steenis MBBS who is proposing a Plasma Gasification unit, which operates on electricity and costs a mere 30 mill with equally impressive running costs and a massive reduction on health implications compared with the proposed PSD ‘S PROPOSAL.
The presentation also dealt with the possible health impact on the island from the Public Services proposed solid waste plant, along with the cost implications to the island. There is of course the impact of having the EU breathing down our necks because the solid waste plant will be breaking every environmental/health ruling in the book in 4 yrs or so and we will only have a two yr warranty from Suez, what happens after that. There is of course all associated costs implications on top of the purchase price which I think may come in around 165 mill but I stand corrected on this.If the Dorey plan is taken to the States then this third plan should also be considered.
David De Lisle paid for Dr Steenis to come over whilst our Deputies are having jollies over to France……Tax payers may be funding these jollies. Also PSD were aware of this evenings presentation at STMCM and allegedly purposely booked a presentation at Capelles School on waste management…’pathetic’…
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I’m sorry… what a waist of money…
Pick a valley on the Islands and fill it in..
Or dig another big where the golf course is and use the the ground and rock to build up the sea defences or reclaim land for housing..
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or you could us all the rock and ground to fill in fontain bay and create a nature reserve like they did with the St Saviours tip.. and I bet most of the Islands don’t even know where the St Saviours tip was.
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Mel B Smith, little Gsy can not save the planet on its own, get real. This is about land fill and how we stop burying our waste. Also, shipping our waste to Jsy is not a viable solution is it. I am concerned about whose backing Dorey and why…big money here for them if they win and have they Gsys best interests at heart or their bank accounts, whats the catch??
Melc, like the point about digging a big hole where the golf course is and fill that in. But this would cause ww3.
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PSD should have come back to the States with a choice of options but instead decided unilaterally that mass burn incineration was the answer. It is clear that MBI is not the preferred choice of the people of this Island which frankly is not a surprise so why have PSD failed again so dismally. They have failed to listen to the people, they have failed to present alternatives to the States and they have failed to come up with an affordable solution. Presumedly they will also fail to take responsibility for their failure.
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Peter… And this hasn’t
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russm
In answer to your questions.
B Flouquet is there and he listens to nobody.
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Melc, no it has not……..
russm, fully agree with you. We the people should be given all of the correct info with all interested parties proposals laid out on the table and debated in a fair and balanced manner. We are not only talking about an amazing amount of money with alleged potential health risks to all the population but is this the sort of legacy our children’s children and their children should be left with. Perhaps what is required is a public referendum and let the public choose…….
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Unfortunately, the ‘EU’ have banned us from burying our rubbish and so we have to look for an alternative. Sorry Melc, looks like you’ll have to keep smiling at the golfers. As russm says that the MBI is not the preferred option of the people, but Deputy Flouquet states that PSD is committed to Mass Burn incineration. That’s why they have done nothing or the very basic recycling, just to keep the people happy for the past 4 years. Why MBI? because they believe it is the cheapest option. But is it? Mr Brouard and Mr Dorey believe that recycling and using Jersey’s incinerator would be a lot cheaper. So, yes, somebody is going to make a lot of money out of our rubbish, but its all down to your preference of how we dispose of it.
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Anyone interested in marching against the Suez proposal then please e-mail me at littlepete@cwgsy.net
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How can we say that exporting our waste to Jersey is the right environmental thing to do? First I will except that I have not fully researched this, thus there may be some room for error, however. The argument is that rather construct an incinerator to burn our waste as it pollutes the environment, we export the waste to Jersey who are building an incinerator! excluding all/any energy from waste etc, our waste still goes up in smoke, the same amount of waste, the same amount of pollution, only in Jersey. The issue is though the scales aren’t balanced, exporting teh waste to Jersey will in its self generate pollution, unless it is proposed that we sail it there using the wind. So environmentally exporting our waste to another place increases pollution.
Therefore why is this being proposed? is it on Environmental grounds or cost? it may cost less initially as we will not require to build, given the limited money the island has for capital projects that could be seen as a benefit. however, the waste plant is to be a revenue stream to cover its own costs, yes this means increased waste charges but shipping to Jersey would not prevent that, as there would be waste fees to pay to Jersey as well as shipping costs. So I don’t see any really savings there, only benefits to Jersey for there capital projects with Guernsey waste paying for them rather than paying for Guernsey Capital projects. If we generate the waste we require to be responsible for its appropriate disposal.
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Could anyone tell me what we’re going to do with the piles of toxic ash this thing will generate..
Of are we back to digging a new hole in the golf coarse idea..
Mal B Smith…. If the EU have banned burying waist how come the UK are still doing it and opening new tips… ?.
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Support the public presentation of the rational alternative to PSD/Suez. Make sure you are there at 7.30pm sharp at St Sampson’s High School on Tuesday 14 July.
This day also happens to be Bastille Day/Le Quartorze Juillet so let’s make it the start of a people’s revolution against this mass burn madness that hardly anyone on the island really wants.
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To Pete Burtenshaw….
No-body is “backing’ (in financial terms) the Rational Alternative that Dorey is proposing. It is being put forward by a disparate group of people…. economists, businessmen, environmentalists, concerned individuals etc. for no other reason than there suggestion is a ‘Rational Alternative’. It is an alternative suggestion that is ‘rational’ because it would cost a fraction of PSD’s proposal (19m versus PSD’s 93m upfront capital costs) That extra money could buy alot of sewage treatment plants and schools which would be of benefit to Guernsey.
As well as financial, there are lots of other reasons why the Rational Alternative plan is ‘rational’…. environmental, health, future proofing etc
Putting on a campaign such as this, does cost money, and it is being borne by those involved. There will be absolutely no financial gain for any member of the group from their proposal, now or in the future. We have been approached by people in the waste business eager to get on board, and all have been politely declined in order to keep the group independent.
So…. there is no ‘catch’. We just want to live in a Guernsey we can feel proud of.
Please.. do come to St Sampsons High School next Tuesday 7:30pm to hear the debate.
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Rosie, many many thanks for addressing the points I raised. One final question I have and that is, is G-CAN involved in the Rational Alternative proposal at all?
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All Deputies on the Enviroment Dept should resign with immediate effect. Period.
This constant pushing of this bent agenda is beyond the pale. Incineration is the most expensive, most ugly and most short sighted of all waste disposal systems.
Landfill, preferably reclaiming land from the sea at the same time, is the most enviromentally sound and economically the cheapest option without question.
The fact landfill has been deliberately debased in the States usual bent consultation processes is why Enviroment Deptuies should resign forwith.
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Pete. I am a member of G-CAN and I am involved. I am not on the Panel however, as we are not primarily fighting this on environmental grounds. Environmental concerns are part of our argument but the main and central point that we are fighting this on, is the huge disparity in costs. Guernsey cannot afford the Suez proposal.
The huge costs that Guernsey could save (tens of millions) by having a more modest final waste solution, would be money that we could spend in making the island a more environmentally responsible place (sewage treatment) as well as upgrading the schools if necessary. A smaller ( & cheaper) waste plant would also force us to be more environmentally astute in the dealing with the waste we generate.
The panel is comprised mainly of very successful business men who are all agog that Guernsey could be seriously on the verge of blowing £93 million pounds on a waste plant that we do not need when the job could be done for £19 million!
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The Swiss who (in my opinion) always seem know the way, produce 90% of their energy from waste incineration – try Google ‘waste incineration switzerland’. I wish we would adopt the method in Sussex.
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Brian Cuzner,
The actual figure is that Switzerland produce 90% of their ‘renewable’ energy from waste incineration, excluding hydropower. 45% of their energy is generated from non-renewables, and 96.5% of the rest is hydro. By my reckoning therefore about 1.5% of their energy comes from waste incineration.
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Peter Burtenshaw is absolutely spot on with his conclusion about plasma gasification. John Surcombe and Brian Cuzner regretfully are still yomping the Alps to promote incineration; yesteryears obsolete inefficient technology. I concur the Peter Jones OBE’s (London Majors waste guru) views (spoke on the technology issue at Easter)which agree with the view incinerators days are numbered in the waste industry. Compare CHP gasplasma net efficiency (60%) with CHP incineration (27%), combustion technology doesn’t stack up for disposing/converting municipal residual waste. Engineering or Waste Management degree not required.
Ideally Guernsey needs
1)Raised recycling to the 60-70% region; done elsewhere.
2)a Digester about 10,000Tpa for food waste/farm waste, for CHP from methane; compost back to farmland
3)a Gasplasma unit ,about 20,000-25,000Tpa for the residual material that cannot be recycled or digested, for 2xRoCs Combined Heat and Power.
See
http://www.advancedplasmapower.com/index.php?action=PublicTVFootageDisplay&albumid=1
http://www.advancedplasmapower.com/index.php?action=PublicTheProcessDisplay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrYJof510NU
Basically, no incineration/combustion process is needed
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I agree with Rob Whittle and Peter Burtenshaw
1) Plasma Gassifier plants… very impressive.
2) Recycling as much as is possible just makes sense.
3) Digesting the ‘soft stuff’ to gas is also a no-brainer.
£90 million for a bonfire? NO THANKS!
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