Those who do not recycle ‘should pay’
Saturday 11th July 2009, 2:29PM BST.
A NEW proposal for a kerbside recycling scheme would provide a financial incentive for recycling, according to Treasury and Resources minister Charles Parkinson.
Deputy Parkinson is leading a requete, signed by 10 deputies, calling for Public Services to produce a report on a dry recycling scheme.
Although he said the scheme would not be funded by taxpayers, a tax on special bin bags would provide the money.
‘It [how much people pay] would depend on how much recycling they do.
‘Those who recycle and do composting will end up paying much less.
‘My view is that you would buy the bags for a number of pounds and the dustman would only collect official bags.
‘The number of bring banks could substantially be reduced because you would be clearing recyclables from peoples’ doorsteps,’ he said.
Deputy Parkinson disputed Public Services’ view that an island-wide kerbside recycling scheme would cost too much and achieve too little.
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There is really no alternative but to recycle,and compost as much as possible.This is not cheap,and for many,especially Town dwellers,difficult.But where there is a will,then theres a way.The big problem in Guernsey,as I see it,are bags that are seagull and cat proof!One day,when materials get short,they will dig up the old rubbish dumps for the “gold” that is in them!
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We can twist and turn as much as we like,but there is no alternative to re-cycling and composting.Where there is a will,then there is a away,it won’t be easy,or cheap,but its going to come!And if you are going to burn then you will need a mighty high chimney to safeguard the population,and can you imagine the visiters reaction when they see this monster on Guernseys skyline?- not that Islanders would welcome it either.
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Love the idea, but if we have to pay for refuse tax as well as the bags, then this is pointless.
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Of course we should pay for the amount of rubbish we generate. It would create an incentive to recycle as much as possible.
The more we recycle… the less waste to be disposed of.
The less waste to be disposed of…. the smaller the plant needed to deal with the waste.
The smaller the plant…. the cheaper it is for all of us and environmentally cleaner.
But there lies the problem. PSD do not want kerbside recycling because it would result in our not generating enough waste to fill this bespoke, over-sized, over priced waste plant that they are determined that we shall have.
More money spent at the front end of the waste stream, (collection) means considerably less money needed for the back-end of the waste stream. Sadly, it is too obvious for PSD to see.
I wish Dep Parkinson well in his attempts. It certainly gets my backing.
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Excellent proposal from Deputy Parkinson. This is exactly the scheme used here in New Zealand and works really well. We buy bags at the local supermarket but recycling is collected for free. This gives us incentive to recycle and now has become part of everyday life so separating waste isn’t even a chore. I’m sure many other countries already use this scheme and Guernsey is just behind the times, should catch up as quickly as possible.
I suspect the real reason public services does not want to increase recycling is because they need all the newspaper and plastic left in the bins to power the vast incinerator they want to ‘waste’ tax payers money on…
Nice work Deputy Parkinson, it is rare to get such financially sound, logical proposals out of members of the states. Keep up the good work, you have more support than you probably realise.
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Pay as you throw is the only way to go. These proposals tie in perfectly with the Rational Alternative to the PSD/Suez mass burn madness.
We now need someone with the stature and intelligence of Deputy Parkinson to lead a rational amendment to the totally irrational and unaffordable PSD/Suez model. C’mon Parky, what are you waiting for?
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Yes in Dorset people are fined if they do not separate their rubbish for recycling. I am not sure who rummages through the bins to find out if you are not recycling, but perhaps we could find out more from the Dorset council.
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Where once we paid a nominal amount for rubbish disposal, now the States are hell bent on charging us through the nose.
Not content with putting our rubbish out, Mr Parkinson now wants the public to toil away seperating our waste, charging us for the bags and no doubt charging us even higher amounts for the States now doing ever less work.
This scam is being practiced in Sweden. The Swedish Govt, far from being ‘a success for the enviroment’, is increasing costs to taxpayers whilst simultaneously asking them to increase their workload seperating their waste and even asking them to take it down the tip for them.
This passing on of costs by the Govt, whilst increasing costs (cheeky eh?) is accompanied with the joy of threat of fines and criminal prosecutions for not seperating correctly, not bagging correctly, not dropping off in the right bins. Add spy cameras at recycling depos to add to the Big Brother State and the joy of the Swedish Govt scam.
Can Mr parkinson fiund a way of balancing his leaking books by some other method than screwing Guernsey citizens?
Can i suggest he halves his useless staff, reduces their wages, and votes against every wish list every other States Depot comes up with while he’s still in public service. If Mr parkinson can remember what he’s actually there for anymore!
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Martyn
Just for your information the ‘game’ of taking our rubbish and putting it in the ground hasn’t changed in decades.
So do you ever wonder why we are being asked to pay ever more for it, and even seperate it??
If you don’t think this is another States scam can I ask you, were you born yesterday?
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Bring it on. Sick to death of paying the same as my ‘can’t be @rsed’ neighbours who put 2 or 3 bins out every week plus loads of adjacent cardboard boxes etc, whilst our bin only goes out every 4 or 5 weeks because the majority of our stuff is recycled or composted. It’s not difficult to cut down on the waste. But the only way to make some people realise this is to hit them in the pocket.
The danger, of course, is that these selfish muppets will turn to fly tipping – we’ve already seen examples of idiots who think that the trip to the recycling point is too much effort so they drive a couple of miles further to chuck stuff over the cliffs.
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In Bournemouth we had 2 bins, one for recycling and one for general waste. If our waste was not separated then it was not collected! The system worked and reduced the amount of refuse by more than half – as a family of 6 we used to fill 2 wheely bins every week with household waste, when the recycling system came in we could not fill 1 wheely bin with general waste but the amount of recycling that was done showed just what a difference it makes if the recycling is collected rather than having to be taken to a recycling bank. The recycling being collected from the source is more effective because you are not asking people to do more than sort the rubbish, this means that even people who have no transport can recycle – minimum effort required really could produce maximum results if a kerbside system was introduced in Guernsey.
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Hey Johnny B
Can I ask you where you get your information from?
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Hi Johnny B, I agree with you that landfill is preferable to mass burn incineration, especially in terms of cost, but the States aren’t going to wear that. Our only hope now lies with the Rational Alternative (go to the presentation at St Sampson’s High 7.30 Tuesday 14 July to find out).
And to make the RA work we are going to have to introduce some sort of ‘pay as you throw’ system, as outlined by Jane and Mrs T in this thread. Like them I resent doing my best to recycle while my neighbours are wantonly chucking bottles, tin cans, alu cans, newspapers, cardboard packaging into their plastic bin bags.
Those irresponsible days of ‘out of sight, out of mind’ are over – or at least they should be over by now. We simply can’t afford to carry on behaving like this and nor can our planet afford it!
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Recycling appears to have plateaued. To ensure that we meet our targets the only recourse we have is recycling by statute.
Part of the argument against this will be the difficulty that St Peter Port residents face. Forcing a small flat with 3 different bins would be unreasonable and inequitable.
Extreme environmentalism can be a tad dogmatic its approach tending to polarise debate. Rather than using the St Peter Port flatlanders as an argument to do nothing, policy makers and lobby groups should recognise this and build exemptions into any compulsory scheme.
Personally I’m for the scheme or a variant on it.
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Although I insist my daughter recycles everything possible at home, as do most people it seems pointless as they do not do the same at school. Seems silly having visits from the Wildlife Trust and having outings to the recycling depot when they just have one bin for everything at school. To be fair, they have tried to get bins but it’s the States of Alderney that won’t supply them! They could still seperate plastic and paper at least.
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well before the green people have their way or the mass burn people get their’s
why do we recycle
is it cost effective
the glass gets crushed and just sits there
the composted stuff often get treated then put straight in the land fill as no one wants it
its ok being green but what is the cost and benifit to the enviroment especially on the scale of economic we have here i.e a very small town it all has to be measured very carefullty
I would like to see some honest figures one on the cost of recycling all the petrol burned picking it up the processing etc and secondly on the alternatives
we get told its so good but many of the recycling issues only make good economic and enviromental sense if there is an economy of scale
lets have a proper debate and some honesty not just peoples pet hobby horse or the view from business who are out to make some money
and the bottom line we the people of Guernsey are paying we should have our say on the millions proposed being spent remember these options will be a burden on tax payers for years to come
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bob
The answer to your cost question is that a concerted recycling scheme as part of a sustainable future waste policy is going to cost us one hell of a lot less than the £200million plus over the next 25 years for a mass burn incinerator. Go to the Rational Alternative presentation at St Sampson’s High tomorrow (Tuesday) evening if you don’t believe me.
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Cost effective recycling matters not a jot once all the land fill sites are full and mother earth is failing. Open your eyes to the bigger picture JohnnyB.
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As an alternative to a flat refuse tax this is a sensible idea: if you choose not to recycle you pay.
There is a cost to everything: the user should pay, wether for fuel or health or any other service.
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Whatever the rights and wrongs of recycling are this is just another reason to hit us with another tax.
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No, Blogger,the present refuse charge would disappear, so if you don’t buy a bag you don’t pay for refuse.
Under the present system many people abuse it by putting out a lot more than than their weekly two bags and the rest of us have to pay.
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JohnnyB have no fear, I have the solution.
Why don’t YOU tender for the parish refuse collection contracts? Since you seem convinced the whole thing is an expensive scam if you bid low you should easily be the cheapest contractor and will be accepted by all the parishes.
Obviously you won’t be using the States tip at this point so all you will have to worry about is where to put the 23,000 tonnes of rubbish you can expect each year.
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well said mrs. P , as usual if i may say so, jonnyB is it really such a tremendous hassle to seperate your rubbish? we live on an island where we pay very little tax as it stands, i don’t mind coughing up more if it does some good. but as many have said, this way the people paying are those not prepared to deal with their waste in a sensib le way. good idea from mr parkinson. like voting, recycling should be compulsory.
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i,ts funny how everyone has suddenly become an expert ,our government has had more than 50 years to sort this (since they started thinking about bordeaux when the small quarries ran out) and here we are a few months away from slinging it over the cliff and whats done ?nuthin , the problem starts with the amount of people producing rubbish. solution ,send all the sandal recycling twits back where they came from ,take their rubbish with them ,the island empties out ,and presto pas de probleme me, i.m buying my own incinerator , £28.18 at b and q
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charge me what you like i WONT re-cycle , and if people are going to be charged for putting out rubbish, watch a lot of general rubbish being ditched here there and everywhere all over the island!
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Brodie, how very community spirited you aren’t!
Why won’t you re-cycle?
It’s precisely because of selfish people like yourself that we have a problem in the first place.
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Whilst this is a sensible idea there are many drawbacks because of people like Brodie and davee and all those others who do not care for their community. I don’t want to see lots of fly-tipping ruining the hedges, fields, cliffs etc in the island nor do I want lots of people making bonfires.
Therefore to be successful Charles Parkinson’s requete ( I have not seen the wording) should also include proposals ( and costings) to prevent fly-tipping and all the other potental problems.
Also I do wonder what will happen on the many estates where bin sacks are collected in a communal area. Will the rubbish collectors leave behind those that are not in the regulation sacks so that they end up staying there for weeks – possibly stinking?
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Isn’t it strange that these days there is so much more ‘Rubbish’
Then again think back to those days you asked for a pound of sugar, or some such item and it came in a nice blue bag.
The trouble today is the Manufacturers insist,(and at times by some silly law) to pack things to such an extent, that not only is there more rubbish but we get frustrated in trying to get at the goods we bought.
An example, ever since I can remember we bought biscuits in packets, round ones in a kind of roll of paper, square ones in paper wrapping.
Now these days the paper is still there, but all placed in thin cardboard boxes, All goods to day have an excess in packing; and we talk about saving the planet, When newspapers use more paper in adverts and such and MORE TREES paid the ultimate price- yes I say ultimate for trees are living items in our world.
They do more good that the waste paper. time to stop this wasteful packaging, then recycling can really mean something
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Ah, but Brodie HAS recycled. Himself………..back to the bottom of the evolutionary cycle. Hopefully to be deposited into the hole which Johnny B appears to believe exists for unusable rubbish to be put into.
Pathetic. I could practically hear you stamp your foot and spit your dummy as you typed “i WON’T recycle” you poor excuse for a member of society.
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Recycle – YES. More charges – NO. A brief response by a LOCAL family who’s so fed up with the extortionate cost of living here that international relocation seems the only answer … a view shared my many other LOCALS. Relatively soon, there’ll be nothing but non-locals residing here in which case they’d all be welcome to further financially screw each other and introduce yet more daft policies and rules, and I’ll be past caring about the amount of waste they produce … so to speak … or what they do with it.
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Great idea. We pay $2.00 for every bag of refuse that’s collected, but re-cycling is free. It certainly gives you an incentive to sort your refuse…
No $2.00 tag, no collection…. It works….
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An Expat
We dont use $s here just £s
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Great idea! The alternative is we ALL pay more tax for decades to pay for the PSD/Suez solution….interesting contrast between ITV & BBC this evening – ITV presented both sides of the story – BBC only PSD’s – I’m complaining to OFCOM
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ha ha ha, rofl, nothing like the subject of recycling to bring out ” the im better than you person” MRS T and MRS P.
your to be highly commended, you are considerably holy than thou!
oh and by the way MRS T you shouldnt assume brodie is male!!
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Lin – best research where you go then, rubbish disposal is a huge problem across the western world. Wouldn’t like a LOCAL to move somewhere more expensive as an over-reaction to a relatively simple problem. (why the big letters BTW? Would you like me to come round and replace your CAPS LOCK key?) I suggest you look into the taxes and laws in some of the idyllic places that often get mentioned in the same breath as leaving the rock. For instance, France, plenty of the Departments there have compulsory re-cycling where it is ILLEGAL (hey this is fun, I can see why you do it now it’s ADDICTIVE) not to separate your rubbish at source – tax there is high too, 19.5% is the sales tax alone.
Like some of the anti-states rhetoric being spouted on here about the retirement age not everything is The States fault, remember we are all cogs in the machinery of Guernsey, however small.
Be the bunny you wish to catch.
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Flying Scot
I thought the BBC report was more like an advert for Suez.
Not what we expect from the BBC.
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BBC = Bernard’s Broadcasting Corporation?
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Theres an elephant in the room!!!
- “Plastic bin bags”??
Why insist on the use of plastic rubbish bags? Isnt buying a plastic bag for recycling going against the principles of recycling?
Its such double standards! What is wrong with using bins? Why not sell bins?
Think of all the people who want to recycle but cant. I have a rotator cuff injury and i struggle! especially because the openings for the bring banks are so high. The elderly who arent as mobile as they used to be, the disabled, people who dont have cars to load up – lets face it theres only so much you can load onto the back of a bike.
All of these people would be able to recycle when the current system makes it impossible for them to do so.
And get rid of plastic bin bags! dont complain about grocery bags or nappies or landfill in general unless you are willing to dispose those ghastly things. They are a symbol equivalent of “the finger” which Guernsey is giving to recycling issues and the environment in general.
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Wil,
You can buy bio-degradeable bin bags.
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Right this is simple.
Do as many councils in the UK do.
You have one wheelie compost bin, one impossible to recycle bin – no plastic sacks in either. Two different colour plastic sacks one for metals the other for all plastics.
Alternate weeks one or the other is collected.
When I lived in South Hams DC area we produced the equivalent of one un-recyclable bag per fortnight – as opposed to the two per week now.
Curb-side pick up it must be!
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Gilthead, exactly what I was going to say!
The idyllic rural town I’m at uni in operates an identical scheme. We have three boxes. Cardboard and paper, plastics and glass. One week we leave our recycling boxes on our doorstep and the alternate week we leave out non-recyclable rubbish.
As a household we produce more recyclable rubbish than non-recyclable. One bin bag of non-recyclable every two weeks. There’s a two bag limit for non-recyclable so everyone has to recycle.
Furthermore….. all this recyclable rubbish gets collected and sorted by…. the unemployed, young offenders and benefit cheats!!! See http://www.recycling.co.uk for details. This scheme provides employment and housing, support and a social network for people who otherwise would be pumping out kids and breaking into cars.
Shame we don’t have a government with the bottle to implement such a scheme…
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And so……..When the Deputies decide on this, they will also need to take into account that:
1. Other countries have tried for many years to eliminte waste by recycling – it has not worked, and they now combine it with energy recovery
2. Reaching recycling levels much above 40-45% may well require the compulsory use of the unpopular and politically dreaded “alternate weekly collection” (AWC)system – imagine keeping your stinkign waste in your flat / house for 2 weeks- then think again!!
This is one of the very real reasons why those well meaning recyclers have to face the reality that most are not so well of that we have large houses with lots of places to store all that waste for so long!
Any Deputies that vote for such high levels of recycling are denying the reality of what can be achieved, and are in effect voting themselves out by supportign the so unpopular AWC!!
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Andrew – have you tried the “unpopular … “alternate weekly collection” system”?
I have. And in the north east of the UK, one of the poorest areas of the country. It works there, as it does all over the UK.
All we hear on this forum is Guerns bleating about wanting ‘green’ solutions. No to mass burn. Clean energy.
Time to put up or shut up.
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andrew
Politely, cobblers. If you consume properly you should throw hardly anything away that will ‘stink’.
If you buy too much food then you’re greedy. Simple, really. Eat it before it goes off.
Wrap it up well if you can’t.
Wash the tins and cartons.
TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILTY OVER YOUR DESTRUCTIVE CONSUMER HABITS.
Don’t go round saying “oh it’s ok we can burn stuff because somebody in a hard hat and a clipboard and a contract says it’s the best thing ever.”
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Student Bob
What survey did you carry out to assume it is just guerns bleating? another pathetic attempt to attack guerns with no facts to back it up.
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bcb – another insightful contribution to the debate on recycling there. Now, get back in the corner, the grown-ups are talking.
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Student Bob
And yours was about what? oh yeah “bleating guerns” that really helps.
i`ll leave the personal insults as i prefer them face to face.
Hows school going boy? :)
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bcb – “i prefer them to face to face. Hows school going boy?” Are you physically threatening a schoolboy? You’re the big man eh?!
If it saves me from a beating down the playing fields during twenty minute break, then Mr bcb sir, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to imply that Guerns are all complaining, whinging mouth and no trousers, happy to witter on about a ‘green Guernsey’, recycling and tidal power then baulking at the suggestion that they might have to separate their own plastics and glass.
Please don’t hit me.
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Student Bob
No no not a threat at all, just that i`d rather insult someone to their face than do it hideing behind a computor. Thats the trouble with a lot of the youth today isn`t it? “no respect”.
But still carry on with your sarcaism(behind your com).
p.s. my original comment was at your post and not at you personaly.
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All this hot air; just introduce the Parkinson system asap.
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