‘Restraint’ means States pay bill goes up by 7%
Monday 20th July 2009, 2:30PM BST.
PUBLIC sector payroll costs rose by more than 7% last year despite attempts by the States to keep increases at or below the rise in the island’s cost of living.
Treasury and Resources has confirmed that the total staff bill rose by 7.4% to a new high of £187m. and that the number of employees increased by 63 to a yearly average of 5,413.
The increase in payroll costs is 2.6% more than the 4.8%
March RPI figure on which most States wage increases are negotiated.
Annual awards for most pay groups ranged between 4.5 and 5% and T and R calculates that increased employers’ social contribution rates and raising the upper earnings limit added more than one per cent to payroll costs.
Another factor contributing to the higher cost of salaries was the effect of regrading some posts and incremental staff progression.
Treasury minister Charles Parkinson (pictured) is, however, satisfied with the outcome.
Responding to Guernsey Press questions, he said: ‘The increase in total payroll costs for 2008 appears to indicate that growth in staff numbers has not been excessive.’
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Thank goodness they’ve been thrifty!?
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I give up! Which part of ‘we can’t afford it!’ don’t they understand….
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FlyingScot – if I’m not mistaken, it’s the ‘t !
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On the mainland, and I would imagine on Guernsey, a lot of firms are having pay freezes at the moment.
I just find it amazing that a 7% increase in payroll costs in the depths of a recession can be seen as acceptable.
Shouldn’t the States be cutting their wage bill to save the tax payers some money ?
As Flying Scot said earlier, we just can’t afford it.
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Just think how bad it might have been:
Had the Airport Fire Dept. been fully staffed;
Had HSSD been fully staffed;
If we’d had a disability officer;
If we’d had a competition law to oversee.
So another 7% likely this year, next year, ad nauseum.
Does this include the pensions costs?
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Our governmental model is broken.
What model?
The deputies vote through Resolutions in the States, then they go away to implement the Resolutions in the States committees.
Except they don’t implement the control on their staff costs. They cannot blame anyone else – non-States members of the committees don’t have a vote.
I suggest we taxpayers unite to sue deputies for the tax we paid to support the consequences of their committee activity (or lack of it).
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The majority of the increase in numbers is at Health, tell the public they can’t afford it when wards or services close down due to lack of nurses, or they cant have an X ray at 2 in the morning, or that their children can’t get mental health care or a social worker when they need one. What has to happen, is that we need to spend money on vital Nurses and other essential staff and farm out lots of other less essential services to the private sector, along with getting rid of there management structures. The private sector could provide many of these basic services much cheaper and with the added bonus of the States not having to pay salaries or gold plated pensions.
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Well said Bob, looks like the States are intent on blowing our ca$h again.
Did they here about what is going on in the real world outside of civilserviceland?
Apparently there is a recession going on!
The president of the local Chamber Of Commerce had this to say earlier in the year.
‘Pay freezes are something that an employer will have to consider. If it’s a case of freezing pay or losing jobs, then I think freezing pay is the better option.
‘The entire island is in this together.
‘It’s in all of our interests that we come through this, so both employers and employees will have to be understanding of the situation.’
http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2009/02/25/do-not-expect-a-pay-rise/
Maybe Parky didn’t get the memo?
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This sensational increase was forecast in the States Budget of November 2008.
The actual increase in 2007 was 4.0%
The estimated figure for 2008 was 7.8%
More of the same to come with an estimated 6.7% in 2009.
This 2009 estimate might well be more givwen that the civil service pay rise was a bout a couple of points more than estimated in the budget figures.
The only comfort from the actual 7.4% figure for 2008 is that it is 0.4% below the estimated figure of last November.
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Someone needs to look up the definition of restraint…as in, “I would like to clap them all in restraints and push them off the pier!
Job for life, no compulsory redundancies, final salary pension schemes, recession proofed pay scales and no cap on headcount (oh, and lets not forget, no accountability!)….the HR department at the states must be managed by Crassus, ably supported by Bacchus!
Is anyone in any doubt that this is just another example of the deeply ingrained tax and spend mentality that our politicians and civil servants live by?
And will they please stop telling us that this is the price for all these “gold plated” front line services we are supposed to be demanding….how about breaking down pay by sector and by type and letting us decide if we need the legions of pencil pushers, middle managers and mini bureaucrats….all happily fiddling away for their own benefit, whilst the island tax payers get burnt…..again!
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The private companies are increasing cost to consumers.
The landlords are increasing rent
The house sellers are inflating their house prices.
The cost of living continues to rise.
Shouldn’t this be addressed ?!? Isn’t this in all our interests to get the living costs down so we don’t have to worry about future wage rises?
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carts, You, as many other commenters have had just as many opportunities to work in the public sector and claim all the benefits that you list. Why haven’t you then? There have been and are a raft of opportunities out there.
Possibly because you know that you can earn far more in the private sector.
Or are you just one of those PS bashers who like nothing more than stirring?
Dave Jones has a good point about farming off some PS enterprises to the private sector. We could get rid of health and education – would that make you PS bashers feel happy? I am soooo sure you could all do a better job and cheaper. NOT
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Deputy Jones
You may be able to answer this.
My car insurance policy covers me for ‘emergency treatment at the roadside’. Having spoken to the insurance broker it appears that as soon as I’m in the ambulance the insurance stops.
Given that we are in different times with real strains on budgets should the SOG not be considering extending car cover to include medical cover?
It’s not that a lateral thought, just seems to make common sense.
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PS supporter – we are all PS supporters (all of us that pay tax and ss)all I’m concerned with is getting value for money for the delivery of services….not just that we keep on seeing tax increases coupled with service reductions.
Where is the sense in paying more, to get less if the only thing we have to show for it is more states employees, with more gilded benefits?
Isn’t it every tax payers right to challenge why the wage bill has increased by 7% at a time when the rest of the world is cutting it’s cloth accordingly?
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Stephen John:
as usual you come up with a researched point of view.
In this case you appear to have unearthed a documented intention by the authors of the Budget to refuse to abide by a Resolution of the States.
If there aren’t resignations, would impeachment not be in order? It would be an open and shut case – the guilty ones have provided the documented evidence against themselves.
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Neil
That idea was put forward by Peter Roffey when he was Minister of Health, that the insurance companies should cover medical costs with patients being charged for medical and any further hospitalisation resulting from a car accident, it was also suggested that any medical costs for treating people who had been treated in a drunken brawl should be born by those involved. If my memory serves me the States threw out the idea of charging.
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Mr Jones
Thanks for the response. Different times and all that so is it time to review the car insurance part of that idea?
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Dave Jones
Do you know what the average pension for a nurse is? Is it enough to live a ‘gold plated’ lifestyle on retirement? No? Then leave your rhetoric for when you understand what it means to be a pensioner in poverty. You’ll know full well about the allocation of social housing and how more and more of it is required for the over 60s. You will condemn more people that work all their lives to serve the public to live in dependence of handouts? What sort of future is that? Who would want to work for an employer that pays pittance and offers no perks?
As for paying for health care, there are people out thewre that have to balance the books to a penny. Most of them running on credit lines. I can assure you that sending their child to the doctor becomes a choice between an unknown illness and a meal for the family.
You want to make this worse.
Healthcare, as it is in all jurisdictions that value the public with so much disdain, is the preserve of the rich.
It doesn’t work.
These statistics are highly misleading anyway. Are you really suggesting that the staff increase HAS BEEN UNNECESSARY? Are there health professionals employed by Guernsey THAT DO NOTHING?
Prove it and cost it before you spout the last vestiges of an ideology that has categorically failed.
Written anything for CF&P recently?
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Just out of interest – I wonder what the hourly rate averages out to for a deputy? Reckon there is a few bob that could be saved there. Also how about sending HSSD HR staff on a course of how to rightfully dismiss someone – that way we wont have to chuck £14k away for no reason either.
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Arnold what on earth is you ranting on about? I have never suggested people pay for medical treatment above and beyond what they already pay, it was in response to something Neil said, secondly Housing is currently putting together with H&SSD a whole raft of new initiatives designed to help with older peoples housing and it has been flagged up in the States on several occasions the last time was last week during the strategic plan debate, so do your homework. As for staff increases if you read my post you will see I am actually supporting our health department.
As for your final comment the meaning of it is lost on me perhaps you will explain.
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There are quite a few people here who have all the talent to match some of our deputies because they fail to see the bigger picture.
You lay people off from the States and where do they go? They go on the dole of course and claim benefit. It’s not as if there are hundreds of jobs in banking to go into. Who pays for benefit? The tax payer, of course except with this it is a lump sum to the person, there is no hint of economic stimulus.
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Sporting Chance…fair comment but I reckon a boat load would just go back to the UK (judging by job titles and qualifications they must be licence holders) and a few hundred could fulfill local vacancies that are currently filled by guest workers, …even if some were to end up on the dole (what does that say about their calibre of staff?)then I reckon it would still cost less than the average £41k a year each civil servant currently costs the tax payer!
This reduction in employment costs might mean more money for capital projects, in turn creating employment opportunities in the private sector….there’s your economic stimulus.
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To annoy Arnald:
“Do you know what the average pension for a nurse is? Is it enough to live a ‘gold plated’ lifestyle on retirement? No?”
Well, maybe, actually.
I don’t know if the “unfairly dismissed” nurse was average, but six months pay was cited as £19000. So that’s £38k. On a 60% of final salary scheme (index linked too) that’s potentially a pension of £22800 PLUS the OAP of around £8k.
So £30,800.
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Well said carts, and lets face it how many of our beloved deputies are non-locals? Hopefully they could all push off as well and that includes Mr Jones. These people are entirely responsible for destroying this Island for their own gains/ego’s.
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Thanks Bob
Not annoyed. Not sure how many local nurses earn 38k but my point still stands. It’s hardly enough to live the life of Riley is it? Some critics of the scheme would have us believe that nurses and teachers and street sweepers are all wealthy enough to indulge in a bit of dodgems to mitigate any possible costs of what responsibility they may have been feeling when devoting their working lives to making society a better place.
How much did that £30k pension cost them in salary deductions?
To annoy Dave Jones
They should be given double.
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Arnald
For once I agree with you. Nurses should earn double what they do earn, and I’m at a loss to work out why nurses have always been so lowly regarded in society. Maybe its because until relatively recently the required level of qualifications to get into nursing were much lower, but the training for nurses in modern times is very extensive, involving lots of practical and theoretical learning.
What has always worked against nurses in pay claims is the admirable fact that they won’t go on strike because they will never let their patients down. As a result, they don’t have the same bargaining power that many other professions have and that has cost them dearly over the years.
Maybe they need Joanna Lumley to represent them in a public pay rise claim !
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“Not sure how many local nurses earn 38k ”
Not many!
And it’s a 50% of final salary scheme that costs the employee 6.5% of salary.
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Why must the guernsey press continue to harrass civil servants especially those who work for the board of health describing them in derogatory terms as “pen pushers” and implying that they are totally unnecessary when it is clear that they have no idea what work is undertaken by these people and what essential services they provide ? It is hard enough trying to keep your head above water in this current climate without getting a kicking every day in our so called local paper. The fact is bankers have lorded it above civil servants for years on this island with massive pay rises, bonuses, medical health cover , child care allowances etc not to mention much higher wages but now the greed has come back and hit them in the face and its all falling down around them they look to the civil service and see it as preferable to their uncertain future… there are already several hundred unemployed on this island what is to be gained by putting ordinary working people out of their jobs and onto the dole ?? guernsey press have turned from an informative paper into an anti public servant publication and it is not pretty.
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Pension costs them somewhere around 5% of annual salary, like most other states employees, I’d imagine.
Riley, along with a lot of other people would be delighted with that annual income in retirement, I’d wager.
The bread line it isn’t.
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David – is Mrs. David a nurse, then?
Mrs. Bob was. She earned more than me when I was a trainee.
I happen to agree substantially with Fed Up. There’s many a civil service employee held down by their “superiors”, undervalued by the public, and who do a stonking job. Many of them are seriously underpaid to boot. Nurses and teachers by comparison are generally reasonably well paid, but seem to have to have a pull on our heart strings now and then. I’m tired of hearing how they are so badly off, when I know that many of them aren’t.
Nobby – enough of them, evidently for one to sacked (unfairly apparently) despite their (apparently enhanced) value of £38k p.a.
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Bob
No she certainly isn’t a nurse and never has been. But I can appreciate the value of nurses.
Of course Fed-Up is right to a degree. Generalising about our civil servants is most unfair. Many of them do an excellent and undervalued job. Unfortunately too many of them do “jobs” which aren’t really necessary in the first place and better resource management would address that. But that’s not the fault of those recruited to do the job in the first place. The fault lies with those up the line who decided the job was necessary in the first place. Its the top 10% of civil servants who are largely responsible, but even worse is that they are totally unaccountable to anyone and that’s why we are in this mess.
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Fed Up…..Why do you think that civil servants should be above being critcised? It is clear that the civil servive has been poorly run for many years and that the current costs are not acceptable. As usual civil servants look at the private sector as all greed when it is the private sector who pay the bills. Staffing levels should be brought back to 1990′s levels, after all was Guernsey such a bad place to live then? If you are good at your job then you have nothing to worry about and infact should be motivated by it as when the upturn comes, driven by the private sector, there will be opportunities.
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Hate to say it, Jersey did not introduce zero-10, like our stupid States Members.
They are also having a pay freeze and for States employees, and cuts in States Dept. budgets.
What are we doing increasing pay by about 5%, and looking at spending more on each States Dept.
About time deputies realized, that you can not keep rising taxes, people are fed up with this incompetent States.
They need to cut back, by at least 10% on expenditure.If they have not, the stomach for this, give their resignation in.
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David- give me one clear example of a CS job that is “unnecessary”. I’m not saying that there aren’t any but I’d like to know what you’re basing your arguement on, otherwise you’re just talking rubbish.
Paul- same goes for you and your claim that the CS has been poorly run for years. A specific example please or retract your statement.
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Cliff
Do you really expect people to provide specific examples on a public blog?
Many of us know that David and Paul are not talking rubbish.
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Cliff
I have been told this by recent former civil servants who left through boredom, having decided that they wanted a job that would occupy them for 5 days a week, not one which meant they were finished their weeks work by Wednesday lunchtime ! I’m told that is rife throughout several departments.
It doesn’t mean that there is nothing for the person to do. It does mean that several departments could manage with maybe 20% fewer penpushers. Addressing this will enable Hunter Adam to fund Health’s requirements without any reduction in service.
Look at Education. They employ numerous penpushers on 12 or 13 weeks annual paid leave simply because they used to be teachers and are able to move from teaching to admin on the same employment terms. I kid you not ! Who is addressing this absurdity and dealing with it ? There is nobody with any desire to rock the boat internally.
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And, in the meantime, the states is looking to raise an extra £10m for OAP care provision by raising stealth taxes. Why not divert this £10m from the States wage pot over a couple of years and see how quickly they would suddenly find the required “efficiencies” to cope with a strict budget rather than a bottomless pit?
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Stephen-John – yes I do! It would be quite refreshing after all the put downs and assumptions.
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Question here – not a comment – has someone got the figures to hand as to what % of our workforce are Public Sector and how does this compare with other comparable jurisdictions ? and for that matter nations ?
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Paul I never said that civil servants were above critisism – I am merely pointing out that the majority of them do not deserve the hate campaign currently being aimed at them by the guernsey press on a daily basis ..don’t forget civil servants also contribute to the running costs of the island through their taxes, social security etc. I don’t think being good at your job has anything to do with it -if you weren’t you would have been kicked out before now anyway..or are you suggesting that everyone on the dole now was no good at their job ?
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If they are going to sack 10%-20% as they are talking in the UK then we must be prepared for the 1000 or so needing to draw benefit, be housed etc.
If we are the talking about cutting benefit to appease the morally defunct, then we will see homelessness in Guernsey.
This will help in what way? Where is the private sector to soak this up?
All top economists in the world are agreeing that cutting the public sector in these economic times will make everything worse.
But who’s to argue against the GEP constantly drip feeding hate and misinformation when noble prize winners say the opposite?
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Arnald- I think 10 or 20% would keep the GP happy for days.
David- To say it is rife is a gross overstatement with no basis whatsoever in fact.
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I don’t have the figures, but a few years back an article in the Press showed that per head of capita Guernsey has one of the cheapest Public Sectors in the whole of Europe (cheaper at the time than the UK and Jersey, for example). I’m sure nothing much has changed. The island still gets good value for money. So there may be room for improvement, but credit where credit’s due.
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Cliff
It’s “fact” in the sense that I know of 5 separate and unconnected people from 3 separate departments who left the civil service because they were bored stiff and had done their week’s work by Wednesday and were left twiddling their thumbs for the rest of the week. In their 30s they decided that not being busy for the next 30 years until retirement didn’t appeal. But of course it meant that their department was over-staffed and all of them there could see that. From what I hear, that scenario is common throughout lots of departments, although I suspect that in others like the hospital they simply cannot cope with the workloads.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. It is very likely that a thorough review of the civil service work practices would result in enough savings to enable Deputy Adam to fund his essential health budget. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the cuts would have to be made elsewhere in HSSD as savings could be made from any area of the civil service. It would be outrageous if any savings from one department were ringfenced for that department’s use, when another department like HSSD may be less able to make cuts but is more affected by external rising costs beyond its control. It doesn’t mean that cuts have to be made across the board, only where necessary and appropriate, but somebody has to drive this for it to happen.
Let’s be realistic. How many departments are going to be admitting that they are overstaffed and that cuts could be made ? They would in effect be signing their own redundancy notices in these difficult times. So don’t expect anything at all to come voluntarily from the civil service. Turkeys won’t be voting for Christmas,
Its an unholy mess but its exactly what happens when the civil service becomes unaccountable. Those who are doing a full and necessary job should have nothing to fear from a proper review. Those who are concerned that their jobs might be deemed unnecessary might have every good reason to be worried. But isn’t that how it should be anyway, and not just in the private sector ?
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I’ve read lots of your blogs David, and a great many of them have shown a good general understanding of the subject. But the one timed at 11:13am above is the biggest load of uninformed drivel you have ever written.
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Jean Pierre
Really ? Please elaborate.
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David
How many millions do you think shaving a few man days off the civil service will save? Of course there’s always scope for improving efficiency but I find it extremely hard to believe that HSSD are so hopelessly inept that they have senior managers and admin staff sleeping in the stationery cupboard or playing office cricket with a screwed up ball of paper (next years budget) and a prosthetic leg for a bat.
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Arnald
If say 200 jobs were deemed “unnecessary” throughout the civil service (administrative staff plus handymen etc) then based on an average total employment cost of even £40,000 (including pensions and related employment costs),then that’s £8m a year saved. Deputy Adam wants an extra £8m next year, so that would pay for that, even if only a fraction of the 200 staff cuts come from HSSD itself.
If the same review also looks at outsourcing of some functions then it may be possible to save several more £m each year.
But the fact is that we just don’t know where cuts can be made, if even at all, until the civil service opens itself up to a full review.
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David
I can’t begin to fathom your logic. All it will do is transfer the cost to Social Security. The pension argument is a non starter as they would not be drawing the pension in this period.
Outsourcing public services does not work. When will people wake up?
The savings will be minimal and the cost to the public in security and welfare will fasr outweigh the economic benefit.
This is purely political, chasing the failed ideologies of yesterday.
Belt tightening is not the same as scrapping the ideals of the development of society. You would see us begging for treatment while the rich ‘generously’ attend charity balls for the elderly.
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Arnald
Are you seriously saying that if 200 jobs went those people would be unemployable ? Granted that the job market right at this moment isn’t great but its not exactly a typical employment market at the moment. And are you really saying that their pension contributions are not being funded by the States while they are employed ? Of course they are.
Of course some services can be outsourced. Not all, but some. Its blinkered attitudes like yours which don’t even want to consider looking into the possibility. Don’t rule it out before its been considered for feasibility.
And the rest of your posting is utter garbage. All I’m saying is that the civil service seems to be over-staffed. If that’s the case then why shouldn’t cuts be made ? Why should the taxpayer be paying for unnecessary salaries ? If they are necessary jobs then of course they wouldn’t be cut. But you are blind to even the possibility that the civil service may be carrying too much fat, when the widely-held view is that this is exactly the case.
So what’s wrong with carrying out a proper review of the civil service staffing ? Scared that the general perception will be proved correct ? If so, then we make cuts. If not, then there isn’t a problem.
Its got nothing to do with ideology. Its got everything to do with balancing the books when there appears to be wastage which can be cut without reducing services.
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David
But £8M?
200 staff?
Are you sure?
It’s all very well calling for more efficient processes, but to use the euphemism of ‘balancing the books’ is just rubbish.
I would rather borrow externally and fund infrastructure development, creating jobs and some pride in Guernsey. Reducing services and making people unemployed will just erode confidence for the people that believe in Guernsey as a place to live rather than a place to maximise their wealth preservation.
Being widely read you will understand the concept that running an economy is not the same as running a household. People matter, not some vague ideal of ‘austerity’ for the poor whilst the rich remain utterly unaffected.
That aside, I’m all in favour in finding out if there are too many bosses within the civil service. No one likes protectionism, similar to my attitude to the fawning and sycophantic relationship with the finance industry.
Again, why cut services (or make them pay a profit driven company) for the vulnerable when revenue can be raised by taxing those that can afford it and who have been in a position to benefit from the finance system that has failed the vast global majority?
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Arnald
No, of course I’m not sure. How can I or anybody be sure until and unless a review of the civil service is carried out.
Of course people matter, but creating a job so that somebody can have a job without first making a case for the job to exist is not the answer. We do happen to be west of the old Iron Curtain. People will have far more pride doing a job which actually needs to be done, rather than being given a token job as a charity hand-out.
And I’m not talking about cutting services. I’m talking about cutting jobs which aren’t actually necessary to be done by so many people for the very reason that it will enable vital services to be maintained and even enhanced. At the moment we are being told that vital health services are at risk. So let’s pro-actively protect those services by getting rid of jobs which don’t need quite so many people to be employed in order to do them !
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Thank Goodness Arnald is not real, because for anyone to be carrying the size of chip on his shoulder that he would have to, would clearly mean the Hunchback is alive and well and living in Guernsey under the name of Alf Garnet Esq.
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Paul
I can assure you that the continual utterances of ‘tax experts’ and vested interest ‘pillars of society’ are far more surreal than any perceived chip on my shoulder.
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