Chamber of Commerce split over £93m. incinerator plan
Wednesday 22nd July 2009, 1:00PM BST.
DESPITE three hours of debate, the Chamber of Commerce council remains divided on whether to back plans to build a £93.5m. incinerator at Longue Hougue.
Chamber president Paul Luxon (pictured) said the meeting, involving the 13 council members, had been exhaustive.
He announced that six members backed Public Services’ plans to build the mass-burn incinerator, four voted to support Deputy Dave Jones’ sursis to delay signing the agreement with Suez Environnement to look at alternatives and three council members abstained.
The council discussed the PSD plan and the proposal known as the Rational Alternative while focusing on what members considered to be the key merits of any facility’s ability to deal with the island’s waste.
These points included the cost, sensitivity to environmental issues, the question of flexibility in relation to a 25-year commitment and the appropriateness of the project’s scale for Guernsey.
Mr Luxon sent an email to chamber members to inform them of the results.
‘It was a testing and exhaustive meeting, with many aspects of both the PSD/Suez and “alternative solutions” causing concern,’ he said. ‘We were not able to reach a strong consensus either way and, in fact, three council members, including myself, did not vote, as agreed at the beginning of our meeting, due to perceived conflicts.’
Chamber also received 26 responses after it requested feedback from members to the issues surrounding next week’s States debate on PSD’s waste plans.
Of those, 18 either did not support the PSD/Suez proposal or backed an alternative solution, two were neutral and six were fully supportive of Public Services’ plan.
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So it looks as if those who claim more business men/women in the States would make it more able to make big decisions may be wrong!
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Peter
The votes of members of the Chamber of commerce is very clearly against Flouqets Folly
“Chamber also received 26 responses after it requested feedback from members to the issues surrounding next week’s States debate on PSD’s waste plans.
Of those, 18 either did not support the PSD/Suez proposal or backed an alternative solution, two were neutral and six were fully supportive of Public Services’ plan”
Clearly the membership are far smarter than the committee.
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Peter
Voting to go to war in Iraq was a big decision but that was a wrong big decision that practically everyone has come to regret.
Voting for Suez/PSD for £200 million plus would be a big decision too – another very wrong big decision that practically everyone will come to regret.
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Dear Stephen and Martyn,
The point of my post wasn’t to suggest which way the Chamber of Commerce Council should have voted [although most people know my views]. Rather it was to poke gentle fun at the fact that the council of 13 couldn’t reach a consensus – or even a simple majority – one way or another. That struck me as slightly ironic given the frequent claim that more leading business types in the States would cure our parliament of being so indecisive. It was intended as a light hearted remark in response to the business community and their frequent criticisms of the States for not being able to make a decision. With hindsight perhaps I should have realised there was little room for such levity in such a political charged – almost fundementalist – atmosphere as pervades at the moment.
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Found this article on a website about that survey from Mr Flouquet
http://www.ifcfeed.com/guernsey-articles/Waste-proposal-is-still-best-solution-says-Minister-Flouquet.aspx
Not sure if was reading the same survey results as me but 400 reponses ain’t bad, that’ .5% of the population and his assessment of wot the survey said and wanted is way off the mark.
Looks like peeps want recycling, don’t mid if we have an expensive bonfire but not one as Bern’s proposing?
Rubbish article anyway
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Any anyway, since when Chamber neva come to a decision? Seems they jumps on any opp to get some space in the media.
26 responses from 500 memebrs? That’s a bit rubbish for the ‘business leaders’ and budding polis of the island?
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Sorry if I took you so seriously Peter. Without going into the rights and wrongs of this one, I am frustrated by the contention (not necessarily your contention) that a vote for PSD/Suez would be a good, hard, firm decision whereas a vote for a sursis would not.
Having led a few sursis in your time I hope you will accept that a vote for a sursis can be a good, hard, firm decision. A decision that may pave the way for a better outcome.
PS
I might have started off as a ‘fundamentalist’ opposed to any solution involving waste incineration but, having been to both presentations, I am convinced that the Rational Alternative, based on a much lower level of incineration than Suez, provides the full skeleton for a workable, viable, much cheaper option that can be fleshed out within a matter of months. Which is why I want to see the sursis succeed.
Guess I won’t see you on the walk from Salerie to Longue Hougue on Sunday afternoon but must catch up for a glass of red on another occasion!
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I had a dream. Not an inspiring one like the late Reverend Jackson’s. Picture if you will that you are jam-packed with us in the audience at St. James. It appears we eagerly await some choral event. On the stage a chappie in evening dress is seated at an upright piano. When he tries out a few bars of an all-too-familiar tune and note that he is playing more with his feet than his hands we realise that it is not a piano at all but one of those old fashioned mechanical pianolas which you pedal. It doesn’t sound too good; every now and then it hits a devastatingly flat note. This is a bit disconcerting because the well-known tune he is churning out is one of those which always seems to resound, annoyingly, over and over again, needle-stuck, in the empty caverns of the brain. Ah! At last, here comes the lead singer resplendent in white tie and tails to the front of the stage. A ripple of applause, an expectant hush. Who is it? It can’t be. Yes it is; it is none other than the Minister of our prestigious Public Services Department, Deputy Bernard Flouquet. The conductor with baton raised attends his nod. Lining the stage the massed choirs of the Guernsey Civil Service respectfully rise to their feet. In an amazing high tenor, perhaps falsetto delivery, we are wonderfully regaled with the following:
Harken, dear Sarnians, your PSD
Has sat for ages on waste strategee.
We’ve coupled with experts, in waking or sleep,
Till up came Lurgi’s answer; let’s burn ev’ry heap!
I fancy you’ll forgive me, Bernie Flouquet,
Promoting data, if spuriously ouquet.
Blow bottom ash, since we know what a flue is,
Let’s tailor the tender to suit firms like Suez.
(Full blown chorus):
Sarnia Cherie, mass-burn ’s for me,
Start cost in millions a mere ninety-three.
Squandered for ever, debt payment never,
(Now this is where we all join in, folks, give it your all)
Island of booty, plundered scot-free!
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Any delay in the (inevitable) building of an incinerator is only increasing the cost. The only other answer to rubbish disposal is the one that has been laughed out of consideration by the ‘live only for today and don’t spoil our view’ anti land reclamationists. The incinerator idea daily becomes more vital – as does the idea and practice of land reclamation. Wake up Guernsey, the ostrich is not a native (of Guernsey) animal!
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I had a dream. Not an inspiring one like the late Reverend Jackson’s. Picture if you will that you are jam-packed with us in the audience at St. James. It appears we eagerly await some choral event. On the stage a chappie in evening dress is seated at an upright piano. When he tries out a few bars of an all-too-familiar tune and note that he is playing more with his feet than his hands we realise that it is not a piano at all but one of those old fashioned mechanical pianolas which you pedal. It doesn’t sound too good; every now and then it hits a devastatingly flat note. This is a bit disconcerting because the well-known tune he is churning out is one of those which always seems to resound, annoyingly, over and over again, needle-stuck, in the empty caverns of the brain. Ah! At last, here comes the lead singer resplendent in white tie and tails to the front of the stage. A ripple of applause, an expectant hush. Who is it? It can’t be. Yes it is; it is none other than the Minister of our prestigious Public Services Department, Deputy Bernard Flouquet. The conductor with baton raised attends his nod. Lining the stage the massed choirs of the Guernsey Civil Service respectfully rise to their feet. In an amazing high tenor, perhaps falsetto delivery, we are wonderfully regaled with the following:
Harken, dear Sarnians, your PSD
Has sat for ages on waste strategee.
We’ve coupled with experts, in waking or sleep,
Till up came Lurgi’s answer; let’s burn ev’ry heap!
I fancy you’ll forgive me, Bernie Flouquet,
Promoting data, if spuriously ouquet.
Blow bottom ash, since we know what a flue is,
Let’s tailor the tender to suit firms like Suez.
(Full blown chorus):
Sarnia Cherie, mass-burn ’s for me,
Start cost in millions a mere ninety-three.
Squandered for ever, debt payment never,
(Now this is where we all join in, folks, give it your all)
Island of booty, plundered scot-free!
Sorry… forgot to say great post – can’t wait to read your next one!
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Brian
There are other options.
Maybe it should be you that takes your head out of the sand.
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The cost of the incinerator is one thing. The cost of lives and our health should take priority. We already have existing pollution issues that are not being addressed. The most recent EU Directive has stated that: The directive agreed today merges four directives and one Council decision into a single directive on air quality. It sets standards and target dates for reducing concentrations of fine particles, which together with coarser particles known as PM10 already subject to legislation, are among the most dangerous pollutants for human health.” Where are our standards. Defra has openly commissioned over 100 PM2.5 monitors. Where are we? Their statistics are available on line. We have ours broadcast over Radio Guernsey. Nothing to worry about – it all blows away to France. Wake up. The world medical and scientific community understands there are real issues here. Yet we are all in a state of denial. The business women and men of commerce have been extemely successful in Guernsey. The split reflects that there are many outstanding issues and queries that have not been either investigated or resolved. Why does it make commercial sense to invest in technology that is two generations old with open pits that hold toxic fly and bottom ash for “airing”..that is what our deputies went to see in France. If Guernsey is to survive we need to be ahead of the game. Money is in short supply and it needs to be spent wisely for you and me.
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i know it shouldn’t be it irks me that the chamber of commerce, a business mens lunch club which has no elected power and a mandate which supports itself above all other things is asked for its opinion and how it stands on issues which effect the island.surely the opinion of everyone should have the same gravitas, but it doesn’t seem to. i don’t care what the c of c supports, i care what i support, the island is run for everyone not tjust business men.
mind it’s just an irrational bug bear!
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Recent press reports about research by Professor Frederica Perera linking air pollution to low IQ should be of interest to all.
If you check the GCSE performances of the 22 Welsh counties you’ll see that Ceredigion has the highest percentage of children getting 5 or more GCSEs at Grade A*-C.
Ceredigion has the cleanest air in Wales, so it’s no coincidence is it?
Any teachers in Guernsey care to comment?
Look at this blog of mine from June 2008 in Shropshire Star:
“Michael Ryan said: Jun 11th, 2008 at 13:07
I suggest that the parents and teachers at the named schools look at the statistics for each of the 22 Welsh Education authorities for the percentages of children achivieving five or more Grade A* to C at GCSE.
Ceredigion has been in top place for most, if not all years for which data is published and was top for all the years I’d seen when I wrote to their Chief Education Officer in 2004 about their high performance.
Ceredigion isn’t a wealthy county, but it is fortunate in having very low levels of industrial PM2.5 air pollution and that’s a major factor in their high performance at GCSE.
If you live in a polluted zone, your brain cannot function as well as in unpolluted areas and this goes for teachers as well as pupils.
When I started my asthma surveys in 2005, the purpose of the research was to check correlation between air pollution and GCSE performance at a more local level than Counties and I needed asthma data at primary school level as a measure of exposure to industrial PM2.5 air pollution.
It’s easy to knock teachers, or parents, or pupils for poor exam results, instead of looking at other factors.
My old school used to be one of the best in London when I was a pupil [1960-67] and yet it was put under “special measures” some years ago for poor results. When I was a pupil, we used to run across Blackheath & through Greenwich Park to Cutty Sark and back for a cross-country run, but I wouldn’t recommend that now with SELCHP incinerator belching out pollution.”
See my letters to Shropshire CC and to Daniel Kawczynski MP at the incineration page of http://www.ukhr.org where you can also see the Health Protection Agency’s letter to me admitting no relevant studies around any incinerator.
Kind regards,
Michael Ryan,
Shrewsbury
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Many people in this island are very concerned about the cost and visual impact of the proposed incinerator.
What about a completely different approach to the waste disposal problem?
Guernsey is very small and one of our most valuable assets is land. We are running out of holes in which to put rubbish so why not make the island slightly larger and create a new hole for rubbish at the same time.
It has been done before. North Beach and Longue Hougue itself are both reclaimed land. Two hundred years ago Braye Du Valle was claimed from the sea. Nobody
would turn the clock back on these projects now.
Surely there is scope to reclaim another area on the east coast, give us somewhere to put rubbish for the foreseeable future and eventually have some useful extra space on the island.
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Michael,
Judging by some of the decisions our States members have made over the last few years (and are still making) it would seem that our island is full of polluted air even before the incinerator is passed!!
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