Hundreds join waste protest
Monday 27th July 2009, 11:30AM BST.
HUNDREDS of islanders marched from Salerie Corner to the Bridge yesterday to protest against the proposed incinerator.
Deputies will vote this week on whether the £93.5m. plant recommended by the Public Services Department will get the go-ahead.
Peter Burtenshaw called the march and said it was imperative that islanders had the democratic choice to air their concerns.
‘This is our money which is going to be spent and our environment it is going to impact on,’ he said.
He urged deputies to listen to the voice of the people and investigate alternative plans to those proposed.
‘People power is the real power and we will make a difference,’ he said.
The proposed multi-million pound Suez mass-burn incinerator would be a combined sorting and recycling facility and energy-from-waste plant.
Deputy Dave Jones will take a delaying motion to the House on Wednesday to ask members to vote for more time to look at alternatives.
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Brilliant- another £6million upwards wasted on delaying the project and re-investigating the alternatives – good work people!
Do you not think that PSD looked at what was right for the island? but of course a bunch of joe public know better then the experts! of course they do – this is guernsey – land where the locals know all about everything!
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Golden
No I dont think the PSD looked at whats right for the island.
I think they looked at what was the “prettiest” and most “eye catching” solution.
You are right about one thing though…
This is Guernsey….
Where our elected politicians dont care how much it costs, or the other ramifications of a ludicrous proposal as long as we appear to be keeping up with the joneses. With no regard to how much it costs the taxpayer.
In this case, the locals do know better.
And its only 6M wasted if they go ahead with this doomed to failure project.
If they take heed and look at the (ever increasing) list of alternatives then it will be a massive amount of money saved.
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What I’ve seen over the last few weeks is that people are jumping on an band wagon and trying to stop something which they have no knowledge about and I mean no knowledge – that is harmful for the island.
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You will always get the bandwagon types.
However there was already significant opposition to this prior to the bandwagon.
Also a significant portion of this particular opposition are well read knowledgeable people and experts in this field.
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CW
Bit OTT to proclim that those who oppose “have no knowledge and I mean no knowledge”.
If your post were to have any value, other than to show breathtaking arrogance, it would have some facts to back it up.
As The Man says there is a significant portion of opposition from well read knowledgeable people who at least can provide supporting facts for their viewpoint.
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Apologies, I don’t mean everyone who’s opposing – just there are a lot of people who are actively opposing who don’t know the pros and cons of the incinerator,recycling etc! These people shouldn’t try and stop it if they don’t know why they are trying to stop it.
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What about the energy the incinerator will produce. Surely this offsets some of the electricity production costs.
I was approached by a local asking me to sign the petition, I lied and said I had already signed it – because I didn’t want to get drawn into a long argument about the incinerator with a body of people with closed minds to the benefits and the future of Guernsey. He said (the gentleman collecting signatures at Forest stores), and I quote: ‘That’s alright, you can sign it a couple of times.’
So to all you States politicians – be warned, the petition is not accurate and therefore and not a legitimate document as you can only sign a petition once.
I pity Guernsey, really I do. So many great things are prevented form occuring by over-zealous public who do not see, nor wish to see the BIG picture. Politicians can be the same, however think about the island in 20, 30, 40 years time. It will need this incinerator and it will need alternative power supplies like tidal and wind power. All these decisions need to be passed NOW while the costs are lower.
The incinerator will be built in some capacity and the longer the delay, the more $$$$ will be added to the cost.
Yes it is expensive, but it will be more expensive later on and will be needed even more.
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better to jump on the bandwagon and be on the side of right,then not to jump on and be on the side of those who go against the will of the people and the health of humanity
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I wouldn’t have written on here if I didn’t care about the health of humanity. How is opposing something for the sake of it benefiting anyone? Leaving things as they are is not helping humanity – landfill is producing greenhouse gases which adversely impacts people globally. Guernsey is not living sustainably and it needs a solution soon, so people should allow a decision to be made on facts not none blinkered opinions. Don’t just join a bandwagon because you don’t like change.
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I have read your comments, and I wonder how many of you live in St Sampsons? We already have the pollution from the power station, and now you want us to have the filth from the incinerator as well. Maybe if the incinerator was placed in your parish,would you be willing to shout praises and adorations about it then, I don’t think so. You say we should think about 20 or 30 years ahead. That is why people are opposing it. The filth will go into the air: the soil(food chain): and the Hougette reservoir. The decisions we make now will affect your grandchildren. Hopefully it will be the right ones.
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Golden, were you Neville Chamberlain in a past life by any chance??
AndyD, I fully respect your opinions and you have the right to be in whatever camp you so wish.
I do not condone the actions of the gentleman collecting signatures outside Forest Stores and I fully support you in your concerns. The ‘NO WASTE TO ENERGY’ or now re-branded ‘NO’ group petition was organized by the G-CAN/RA proposal crowd so I cannot speak for them on this matter. I will add however that their petition is in no way associated with the petitions Lisa, Sarah & I have circulated. Please feel free to give me a call on 725844 if you require further clarification on this matter.
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The Man
I would hardly call “hundreds of people” a significant number of people. 0.005 of the population (very approximately) Also I am yet to hear any “experts” on the anti PSD/Suez bandwagon step up to the plate and display their credentials and put forward a proposal that has proper investigation, references of previous work and proper sound costings? Wasting all their time marching I guess and not sitting down at the drawing board.
But hey, what do I know-im no expert.
By the way, the parochial surgeries around the island seem to suggest that there is just as much support for the PSD/Suez Model as there is support for the alternatives.
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Golden
There is a website with a perfectly sound alternative solution which has nothing to do with the rational alternative, this is replete with a complete cost breakdown.
If you have been paying attention you will know it was posted on this site a few days back, given that you are clearly invested in this situation I will assume that you are aware of this site, and are ignoring it in your comments.
I was waiting for someone to spout the “0.005 of the population” rubbish (and by the way, did you use the phrase “very approximately” to allow yourself to be completely wrong in your calculation??), which is assuming that every single person who is oppsed to the Suez proposal was able to turn up at the designated tim and physically fit enough to actually march.
Regardless, 500 people is significant on this island, if you dont beleive that, then come on Bernard, put your real name up on here ;)
Also, on the subject of sound costing, would you like to tell us how much the Suez plant will cost to dismantle?? Seeing as the states proposal is so well plannned. Also what about malfunctions after the 2 year guarantee is up??
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Silly me – i forgot that 500 was the significant majority!
Sadly I am not bernie – I am Michael Jackson, alive and kicking and dodging tax on the proceeds from my sell out tour. Ow!
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Oh BTW The Man – we are all invested in this siutation. And I can assure you I have no ties to either option. I just felt like fishing.
Personally I would turn Alderney into a mass dumping ground for all our waste and send all our criminals there to work on the site. Good job im not Chief Minister yet eh!
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Oh you were fishing……
Ok riiiight?!?!?!
Normally people who are fishing do not to attempt to argue relavent points whilst admitting to being invested in the situation.
Good luck with your future attempts.
I have no ties to this other than not wanting to see my children saddled with debt over a another “headline” project and one mans seemingly desperate attempts to cement himself into this islands history.
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CW and Brownie, I think it’s a good thing the public are for once stepping up for what they believe in, I hope many more locals continue this approach.
We live in a democracy, thus meaning we the public have a vote, and the 500 or so that did this march, didn’t like what was happening.
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Golden Brown…Thank goodness your nowhere near the states with your grasp of maths! 500 turnout on a sunny summers day is a very good turnout by any standards and shows clearly that the states has not satisfied the electorate that this is the way to go. For once Dave Jones is right on the money, take some time to evaluate how much recycling can be achieved and then see how large/small an incinerator needs to be.
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I think its great people are getting involved – we don’t want an Island that is ruined. Ross Kemp on Pirates, where he’s in Nigeria shows an extreme case of what can happen when a Government couldn’t of care less for the environment and its people so it great that people are forcing debate.
But it does annoy when people are telling what to think and do when they don’t know the ins and outs of the situation.
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Nothing wrong with my maths. My previous figure was based on a guess of the population at 68,000 Approximate attendance at march was 500 (probably a generous figure) the registered electorate for 2008 elections was 33,201. so .015 of the registered electorate of the population marched, ok so not everyone was available to march, lets be generous and say another 500 would of like to of been there but couldnt – that would of still been 0.03%. And lets look at the 3000 signatures on the petition to Dep Jones =.09 of the population of registered electorate. Hardly vast majorities.
Also I fail to see the admission to being invested in the situation in any of my previous posts, please do enlighten me. My only investment is that I have hopefully got a good 50 years left to live on this, my island, and I want to make sure that im not living in a pile of rubbish because the island was too slow to react to a problem! Other then that – im just sitting back amused by the whole situation, maybe I will change my handle to Stig of the Dump!
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Presumably the 500 on the march were experienced professionals with a thorough knowledge of all the pros and cons of the various technologies and options, particularly bearing in mind the space, operational and financial constraints? No, I thought not.
When is everybody going to realise that we can’t just keep procrastinating? Presumably when all our quarries are overflowing with waster and we’ve started exporint it to Jersey – who are clever enough to be trying to make a few million pounds out of Guernsey by selling us their spare capacity over the next ten years. And at the end of those ten years, guess what – we’re no further forward!
Please, please, States Members – make a positive decision and let PSD move forwards, otherwise the whole island will continue to go further backwards in the Waste Management stakes.
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Peter Burtenshaw and The Man are completely right!
Incineration dressed up as CHP/EfW is a bad thing on 12 key issues, all peer review researched.
Also for Golden Brown, I can categorically tell you of 6 non incinerator cheaper alternative technologies and techniques.
500 folks marching, turnout is a significant protest on a Sunday. Not all folk can go marching or actively protest, but still don’t want a burner.
You can only see 10% of an iceberg on the surface; but the 90% is below the water and sinks ships; as a metaphor.
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Ok Golden
“we are all invested in this situation”
Good enough??
Silly me if I misinterpreted that phrase as you actually not being invested in the situation.
And if you are on a fishing expedition as you state, then why are you so vociferously defending your opinions??
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I hate to dissolution you but PSD offered their experts – meteorologists acting as PR gurus and boldly holding court on medical evaluations and submissions.
Remove your blinkers and see what is really being proposed- out of date technology which will be outdated and out regulated before it is even put into action.
If the States had not procrastinated we would have been stuck with a Lurgi dinosaur demanding 70,000 tons of waste belching ash all over Guernsey with no incentive for recycling . Not the way forward.
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In Times online this morning
Local council found liable over birth defects
Steam rises from the eight cooling towers at the Ferrybridge power station near Leeds, in the north of England
Young people born with deformities win landmark action after claiming botched steelworks clearance in Corby was to blame.
Time for PSD to make provision for any problems of a similar nature, that might arise in Guernsey, through failing to appreciate potentisal health problems.
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The Man – if i make a comment – i have to be willing to defend it. Seems you mistook my “investment” in terms of being a local and a taxpayer as “investment” for i stand to gain from the PSD proposal maybe personally. Still not to worry.
Anna-I am afraid I can not take any “information” you offer when you can not even spell correctly the word you are trying to use “Disillusion” i believe is the word you were after. And believe me, I am not disillusioned in the slightest. Lets opt for the turn Alderney into a dumping ground and move forward with that plan. Its far cheaper and we can start today.
Mr Whittle – I am suitably intruiged-perhaps you could provide a link for me with info on these 6 technologies or at least what they are so I can research them myself?
Never thought I would say this but good luck Bernard Floquet.
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New headline
67,500 decline to join protest
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Golden Brown
A bit rich for you to take Anna to task over her spelling because your own spelling and grammar are appalling.
It should be ‘Let’s opt..’ with an apostrophe and ‘It’s far cheaper..’ with an apostrophe. Have you got something against apostrophes?
As for your own spelling, you’ve spelled ‘intrigue’ incorrectly and you can’t even get Bernard Flouquet’s name right!
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Thanks Martino – duly noted sir.
J Like your work, I hope Richard Digard read’s this, you could have a job for life at the Press.
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Golden Brown
going by your criteria i dont think any of us should take a blind bit of notice of anything you say lol, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
but dont take any notice of me cos i cant speel very well to :)
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You’ve taken that riposte in good spirit Golden Brown. And I think we can state quite safely that your English is profoundly better than j’s statistical analysis!
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This has gone on long enough…Deputy Ogier cost us a lot of money last time around and now it is happening again…..come on people, pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes. how long can we keep looking at other ways of dealing with our own rubbish. landfill is not an option anymore. we have run out of large holes.
you cant say that people couldn’t make the march on sunday…that is a cop-out. just look at the protests in france. 500 people do not count in my book. 5000 would still be a very small number. i think the Guernsey people did vote with their feet on sunday and this waste plant needs building and building ASAP.
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Buy the time this is over, we will have a ski resort on the island, the pile of garbage will be so high, it will have snow on it 365 days of the year….perhaps this is a new cunning strategy from our tourist board!?????
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Simon – I do hope so, I love going out on the Piste.
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About time too….thank you to all who voted.
we can now get on with some of the other problems in Guernsey
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PSD were sent out to look for a ‘residual’ waste plant and what we are going to be buying is not a residual waste plant. Residual means waste AFTER all recyclates have been removed. If we were buying a ‘residual’ waste plant…. we would not need one so big. A smaller plant would be preferable for many reasons, not least of which is cost.
I am staggered that there are people posting on here that seem to advocate an apathetic community…. one that does not bother to find out what the Government is doing in their name. Dealing with rubbish is not rocket science…. while the details do get very complicated if you drill down into it, what is not complicated, is the main premise that the whole waste strategy should adhere to. Namely….. Reduction, Re-use, Recycling, Energy Recovery, Disposal… in that order. If the first 3 steps are not being pursued rigorously enough, then too much money has to be spent on the last most expensive stage. That is what is happening here.
£93 million is not to be sneezed at. £120 million commitment the minute the ink has dried on the contract, even if we decided not to build the plant… and this at a time of considerable financial insecurity for the island. £230 million will be paid by you and me over the next 25 years for this plant. And yet there are some people posting on here who seem to think we should all roll over and quietly pay up without asking any questions. PHEW!!!
….. and that’s without even mentioning the concerns over the health risks and environmental considerations.
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PSD were sent out to look for a ‘residual’ waste plant and what we are going to be buying is not a residual waste plant. ‘Residual’ means waste AFTER all recyclates have been removed. If we were buying a ‘residual’ waste plant…. we would not need one so big. A smaller plant would be preferable for many reasons, not least of which is cost.
I am staggered that there are people posting on here that seem to advocate an apathetic community…. one that does not bother to find out what the Government is doing in their name and how they are spending your money. Dealing with rubbish is not rocket science…. while some details do get very complicated if you drill down into it, what is not complicated, is the main premise that the whole waste strategy should adhere to. Namely….. Reduction, Re-use, Recycling, Energy Recovery, Disposal… in that order. If the first 3 steps are not being pursued rigorously enough, then too much money has to be spent on the last most expensive stage. That is what is happening here.
£93 million is not to be sneezed at. £120 million commitment the minute the ink has dried on the contract, even if we decided not to build the plant… and this at a time of considerable financial insecurity for the island. £230 million will be paid by you and me over the next 25 years for this plant. And yet there are some people posting on here who seem to think we should all roll over and quietly pay up without asking any questions. PHEW!!!
….. and that’s without even mentioning the concerns over the health risks and environmental considerations.
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Having read these posts it seems those in favour of the incinerator think it is going to ‘solve’ the problem?
I hate to tell you guys but the waste doesn’t just ‘disappear’ when it goes into the incinerator. You’ll have tons and tons and tons of bottom ash being trucked out of the building.
What are they going to do with it do you think. Here are some options used elsewhere
1) Bury it… hey same problem as before, we’ve just lengthened the timeframes and given the problem to our children. When they run out of room they will then try-
2) Mix with concrete and make blocks for building. (So we’ll end up living in our waste). No long term studies on effects have been done to date. When they have covered the island in waste block houses they will try-
3) Use as base for roads, etc. In effect taking our rubbish and spreading it all over the island. When we run out of the need for new roads (don’t remember many being built recently..) they will try-
3) Mix with concrete in large blocks and dump them into the sea. Long term effects as the blocks break down not fully understood. In effect we’re burning and dumping rubbish in sea (sounds like the 1800′s to me…). Our kids will be unable to reverse the problem once distributed around the coast.
So, my problem with this is that PSD are promoting this as a solution, which it is not. It only drags out the problem and leaves it for our kids to solve(at best), and causes widespread environmental issues (at worst).
The issues won’t be limited to St Sampsons, the chimney is too high. The other parishes will get the pollution from chimney, bottom ash buildings / roads and impacts from dumping the ash blocks in the sea.
The ONLY real solution is to address the balance of material coming in and out the island. Which means we need to import less packaging and of that we do import make sure most is returnable to source. We should not bear the cost of manufacturers lazyness in desiging their products. If the cost returns to them they will change very quickly.
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I agree with what Me as he said, 25% of the waste will still have to be got rid off.
As for Golden Brown( could not you make it charcoal) if he was to organise a march in favour of the incinerator.
How many would take part?
This is always the view from Dupuy’s and Golden Browns, if 500 march, the other 67,000 agree with their views. No they do not.
It may have been 500 who marched, but a lot more shared the same stand point.
Include me and my family (that’s about 40 more).
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Agree with ‘me’ also.
Deal with the rubish now, what is being propsoed is the lazy way out for the next generation to then have to deal with it, it is not a solution.
The ‘carpet’ approach!, this carpet is not the State’s to brush under, it is our island.
Materialism and it’s trappings have to be kurped globally to a sustainable level and not at a greed/profit based level, in order to better manage waste.
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Me..
I think you will find that PSD are planning to use the bottom ash on the roads. Your number 3 should be at number 1. You are quite right though. When you incinerate, you are still left with a third of what goes in, only now it contains toxic material. The rubbish certainly does not ‘go away’……. there is no ‘away’!
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