No meeting on our case – Landsbanki savers
Wednesday 29th July 2009, 2:29PM BST.
NO ONE from the States met their UK counterparts to discuss the collapse of Landsbanki Guernsey between September and March, a Freedom of Information Act request has revealed.
Savers said they were disappointed by the ‘inaction’ of the States in efforts to help get their money back.
The Landsbanki Guernsey Depositors’ Action Group used the act to reveal that no meetings took place between the States and the Ministry of Justice in that period regarding Landsbanki Guernsey.
It was also confirmed that no meetings have taken place between the Ministry of Justice and HM Treasury regarding Landsbanki Guernsey.
The group say the lack of meetings calls into question Chief Minister Lyndon Trott’s claim that work to help retrieve savings has been going on ‘behind the scenes’.
Spokesman Matthew Dorman said: ‘This underpins how we’ve been caught in a game of cat and mouse for the past 10 months.
‘Meetings that the action group had with the chief minister and Ros Hewitt, MoJ Islands’ branch representative, now appear a complete waste of time.
‘We will be pushing for meetings in London with the relevant heads of department, but we are also disappointed with the chief minister’s apparent inaction.’
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This is a deplorable state of affairs, and you should hang your head in shame Mr Trott.
This is a sad reflection of your concern about Guernsey’s reputation as a reputable finance centre, and a real two fingered salute to all that are still awaiting the return of the balance of their savings.
What have you got to say in your defence Mr Trott?
Oh yes – NOW you are going on a jolly to Iceland!
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Lyndon Trott has been telling the LDGAG about on going talks and meetings behind the scenes, how can we or anyone including deputies believe anything this man as to say
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It used to be said ‘there was lies, damm lies and statistics’. In Guernsey and the UK it has become ‘lies, damm lies and political spin’. I could have used a another phrase but that would be to insult the bull. So what goes round, comes round. If you cannot trust what someone says in one case, how can they ever be trusted to tell the truth in other cases. As Descartes said, ‘ cast that aside as if untrue, anything that has found, at first, to deceive.’ How can we ever trust or respect the ‘little men’ ever again!
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After months of stringing the Landsbanki Guernsey victims along we now have proof that your Chief Minister whilst claiming to be doing all sorts behind the scenes, has in fact been doing very little indeed. What he has done is to be VERY ECONOMICAL WITH THE TRUTH.
He and his sidekicks have done little for Guernsey’s reputation as a banking centre, certainly when now compared to the proactive efforts of the Isle of Man.
How can we be expected to believe what Trott says from now on. How can we be expected to trust him or the GSFC ever again.
True he now has been shamed into going to Iceland. We would like to think it is for more than a summer break at your expense.
We hope the Guernsey Press will be demanding some straight talking on his return.
Guernsey’s actions have been no less than shameful so far !
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This is indeed a sad and quite shocking revelation. As for the UK representing Guernsey in negotiations with Iceland… what a sham that was. In truth, nothing has happened and probably nothing ever will. This is in total contrast to the Isle of Man who have done so much to help savers who lost money in KSF. Mr Trott clearly cares little for the pensioners who have lost 70% of their savings. He cares not for the people who are being forced to sell homes and are relying on handouts from family members. This was a bank operating in Guernsey and regulated by Guernsey. At the very least, Guernsey should help in every way it can to retrieve our money. Hearing this news almost makes me want to cry and I’m sure that there are another 1600 people out there today who feel the same. Trott, you should hang your head in shame!
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Come on you lot don’t get so worked up, this is only King Trott doing what he does best. ie Summer+ beautiful Iceland+ freebie holiday =time for Lansbanki trip!
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The people of Guernsey should be ashamed and very afraid of their island’s future, now that the truth has finally come to light. So their Chief Minister, their Leader, their representative on the international banking circuit, has proved to be untrustworthy. However, he is still there, as poor Guernsey goes into freefall.
Come on Guernsey prove you have the guts to honour your promises before you become a giggle in the financial world, as investors take their money elsewhere. I am only a 76-year old widow trying desperately to remain independent and make ends meet now that so much of my savings with Landsbanki-Guernsey have been airily waved away for the sake of local politics.
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He said that Landsbanki Guernsey depositors didn’t need a compensation scheme and also about the work that was going on behind the scenes to get out deposits back. This is outragious, he has basically been sitting on his laurels and doing nothing. Unlike all the other personal depositors with the Icelandic banks we have only received a small part of our deposits back. He should be following IOM’s example.
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Obviously I am disgusted by this revelation.
It shows that my gut reaction in Oct 2008 to name the States of Guernsey as a modern day port for international pirates was spot on.
What absolute contempt the States of Guernsey has for those who trusted them with their hard earned money.
I hope all those who are considering placing money with banks in Guernsey now understand that the £50K compensation scheme will never be worth a damn penny if it is administered by the people who are presently in charge.
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This just goes to prove what we already thought that Mr Trott is so full of himself he is starting to believe his own words. He should be ashamed of himself for just ignoring the plight of Landsbanki savers who have lost their savings and he shows that he just doesn’t care.
Guernsey will never be trusted as a financial institution unless Mr Trott and Co get this terrible mess sorted out once and for all.
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I cannot believe that so much time has elapsed with NO action whatsoever on the part of the Guernsey authorities to attempt to help the plight of the Landsbanki investors. What incentive is there now for anyone to invest their money in Guernsey?. The whole thing is a complete sham. Mr Trott and co. said that they were in discussion with the Icelandic authorities when they patently were not. Iceland must be stopped from joining the EU until they have resolved their debt to Landsbanki Guernsey investors.
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Now that Trott’s inactivity and political smoke and mirrors have been exposed, I am delighted that some of the Deputies are finally beginning to question his statements and motivation.
The Chief Minister’s claims of support for the Administrators are fatuous and irrelevant, as I am certain that a firm of Deloitte’s calibre is perfectly capable of doing its job without ‘support’.
His constant excuse about ‘taxpayers’ money’ is disingenuous given the published revenues from the Banking Sector, not taxpayers, and does not explain his political failures in terms of influencing HM Government and HM Treasury to include Guernsey savers in their discussions and subsequent deal with Iceland – if he ever tried.
This omission, and the exclusion of fellow British citizens, is as inexcusable as it is inexplicable. One can only speculate as to the real reasons behind Guernsey’s ‘hands off’ stance for the last ten months – in total contrast to the IOM’s unceasing attempts to find a solution, both political and financial. All KSF IOM depositors will receive payouts under IOM’s retrospectively increased Depositors’ Compensation Scheme, this September.
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Whether Mr Trott has been evasive or plainly untruthful over Landsbank his fellow deputies should be wary of anything he talks about (Landsbank or anything else).
Voters should be very wary of this man next time around.
Bob M
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Surprise, surprise. What shall I tell my newborn when it arrives in years to come? Mummy cannot support you, with what she wanted, as her life savings were in a bank in guernsey that failed her. Thanks MR Trott, for all this stress.
This will not be forgotten by many,and especially not by me. Have your Jolly in Iceland, but we better get some answers on your return or will it be case of talk to the administrators, as it always has been.
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I do feel sorry for the Landsbanki depositors however when placing your cash with any organisation there is always an element of risk. The terms and conditions are quite clear. If you are being offered an interest rate that is too good to be true then that to me is a sign to steer clear. It was the country that went bust and not the particular organisation and it is not up to the local tax payer to bail people out of bad financial decisions. You should never put all your eggs in one basket.
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It has always been my feeling that Guernsey as an Island and their government were actually doing nothing. They couldn’t give a monkey nut as to whether we got 30% back, 70 % or 0%. They just don’t care. I hope sincerely that they as a country get their comeuppance. As others have said, what goes around comes around. For the remainder of my life, I will where ever and whenever possible tell the world about “safe and secure Guernsey” now lets all laugh !
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This just shows that our politicians cannot be trusted. These are our ELECTED officials. They are there to represent and help the people. The fact that not only have they not helped, but also lied about it is outrageous. This not only reflects badly on Mr Trott, but also those around him who closed rank and defended him, when they would have been aware of what meetings were happening. Shame on you all.
Where does this leave those who lost money? They are worse off because of the inaction. Opportunities will have been missed to deal with foreign governments. The UK’s government has its issues, but fought to get their money protected. Likewise for Isle of Man etc. Just Guernsey who promise no money, and now it turns out, no help either. Mr Trott has dramatically weakened his case that Guernsey money should not be used to help Landsbanki victims.
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Keep your house tidy to start with, Mr Trott and Guernsey’s reputation will take care of itself and taxpayers will be much better off.
Do Guernsey people not deserve any better individual to represent them?
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In his rejoinder at States Meeting on Wednesday the Chief Minister bemoaned the fact that the LGDAG had usesd thFreedom of information act to obtain this information. It is a pity that Guernsey does not have such an avenue to seek information in the public interest and fact there are political moves to further clamp down on information availability. The Chief Minister and the GFSC have used this heavy handed secrecy to avoid coming clean on their actions prior to LG failure and subsequently.
I thought government by keeping its voters in the dark went out when the Berlin Wall came down – obviously not! Besides LG what else is the Chief Minister hiding from the Guernsey Islanders?
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Does Lyndon Trott really care about the innocent savers who have been caught up in the collapse of Landsbanki Guernsey? Nothing he says or does would indicate that he does. People like 97-year-old Elizabeth Castle (www.thebankthatsank.co.uk/elizabeth-castle) deserve better than this.
I will make every effort to make sure Lyndon Trott and his don’t care/won’t take responsibility government are brought to book.
John Ervinn Towler .
Documentary film maker.
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Dear Mr. Trott,
The saying goes ‘it is easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar’….we gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried to believe that you were working ‘behind the scenes’ with the UK and Iceland governments to help redress the banktheft suffered by ordinary LandsbankiGuernsey depositors. Freedom of information has caught up with you and you have misled us.
We will not go away. No-one is asking Guernsey to be out of pocket but we expect you to act like a leader with morals.
As pensioners, most of us are relying on our funds for our pensions and healthcare, in an attempt not to lean on an already overburdened society, as we keep being told in the press.
Please help us.
Susan Dreux
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(Landsbanki) Depositors’ Lament
For want of protection our money was lost
For want of (political) support the battle was lost
For want of the battle depositors were lost
For want of depositors the Banks were lost
For want of the Banks the (Finance) Industry was lost
And all for the want of protecting our money.
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EJ
They put all eggs in one basket because they believe the misinformation spread by the finance industry that things are always good in la-la land.
I bet the print about the possible failure of the parent resulting in total loss of your life savings would have been so small and generally incomprehensible as to be easily overlooked. Even if it meant anything which it probably didn’t.
The rates were not ‘too good to be true’, pick up a Press now. There are rates in there appear high, are they about to rip people off?
Yes, individuals should be more canny generally, but we have been lulled into a false sense of security, especially in Guernsey where this business is all we do, that I’m afraid any criticism of those savers is irrelevent and frankly abusive.
Pinning down the fault is another issue entirely, and I completely agree that Trott has used all his lack of grace and charm to maximum effect to wind people up and make Guernsey look like the pirates we were.
How anyone can think that the Trott/Flouquet combo was some sort of dream-ticket figurehead seriously need a spell back in school. Infant school. What an embarrassment. 2000 votes between them. Not in my name.
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The tactics of the Landsbanki action group are to blame for the lack of action. You lost public support from the start with your attacks on Guernsey and statements that you wished Guernsey to be ruined. In fact most people have moved on and have little interest in this issue now and you can thank your action group for that.
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Arnald
The terms and conditions are quite clear, people should do their research before putting their entire life savings with one organisation, surely that is just common sense. What is this ‘misinformation spread by the finance industry’?
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Well Mr. Trott, I hope you are pleased with yourself. My 80 year old relative, blinded with macular degeneration will have to stay blind as the operation she needs to regain some of her sight costs in the region of £20,000, excluding travel and accommodation.
Her late husband saved with Cheshire Guernsey for some 20/30 years and died at peace knowing there would be enough money to see her through her twilight years.
She is heartbroken that she cannot have this surgery because Mr Trott has seen fit to allow Landsbanki to steal her savings.
Sleep well Mr. Trott and enjoy your freebie holiday in Iceland. Spare a thought for those stuck in their homes with no quality of life because Guernsey’s greed has robbed them of their hard earned life long savings.
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Hi darlings!
To protect myself against the impending demise of the world’s Fiat currencies I’ve been buying Rhodium bullion coins like crazy. The broker says that I should make a killing when I sell out in a few years but if the market should collapse should I be entitled to a payout from the States?
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EJ
What does the word deposit mean to the average person?
Now, some of us may be clued into how the banks use deposits to fund lending activity, but I can assure you that most people picture a ‘deposit box’ that can be accessed as and when, and that no one else can.
As with most contracts, if something goes wrong you expect a bit of protection.
It is fair to say that Guernsey depositors knew there was no States backed scheme and so in the unlikely circumstance that something went wrong they wouldn’t get much shrift from the authorities, but that’s not the point.
Deposits for most equals security. The fact that the system actually in place was a big game of roulette is blatant misinformation, even if the spec is buried deep in a website or something.
You can rest assured that if it had been a fund that had collapsed then there would be no outcry and a collective shrug.
There may not have to be any recourse and no rules may have been broken, but the arrogance of those involved has not been pretty.
In future deposits should be labelled as what they are. Capital for the industry to make more money for itself and that if it goes wrong, well thems the breaks.
Do you think people would be rushing to support them?
Investment banking should not have anything to do with retail.
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I’m sorry Arnald I’m going to have to take issue with you here. I have every sympathy for all those depositors who were with Landsbanki because they were historically with Cheshire and, to a lesser extent, for those who deposited before the big crisis in Iceland (the country) started to show itself.
I do not have so much sympathy for those depositors who went in chasing the extremely attractive interest rates on offer with Landsbanki at the time when the looming financial crisis in Iceland was being blanket covered by practically every serious UK media outlet you can mention, from the BBC to the broadsheet national newspapers.
I remember seeing the Landsbanki Guernsey ads in the local paper this time last year and thinking: “If I had money to put away I certainly wouldn’t put it there despite the great rates”.
For the depositors who did this, when all the warning signs were there, it was a definite, dangerous gamble, and those particular people should be damned grateful that they’ve come away from it with 80 per cent (or whatever) of their savings still intact. The rest, as I say, I have much more sympathy for.
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Mrs P
I get the feeling that you actually enjoy the fact that people are upset over this i bet your even laughing at them? and no i haven`t got any money in that bank.
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Martino
They’ve come away with 30 – not 80 – per cent so far. Anywhere near 80 per cent recovery would take several years.
Wasn’t it the GFSC that took a “dangerous gamble” by authorising the sale of safe Cheshire savings to Landsbanki despite the warning signals that they were much more aware of than ordinary pensioner savers?
The fact remains that Cheshire told the GFSC in April 2006 that it was closing but the Gsy Govt was desperate to stop a bank leaving the island on their watch and gambled on the sale to a distant bank that most had never heard of.
See http://www.thebankthatsank.co.uk
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Just shows how well Trott has spun his information, or how poorly the average person is aware of local financial matters. Despite the coverage, people are still thinking (and/or posting) that the LGDAG have 80% of their money back. They have 30% currently. That’s it. No more. So sorry if I don’t take advice from a slightly smug-sounding islander with the benefit of hind sight. You are obviously not well informed, and just lucky that you didn’t trust your money to a bank (whose saving rates were by no means the highest at the time).
And yes, I am annoyed at the lack of community spirit in an island that has had plenty of cream from the finance industry for years, but cannot support its own when times go bad, and yes I have had to wait a huge amount longer for operations that I could have had privately if my money was available.
The original article was about Trott’s lack of action . Try to comment on this topic. Stop bashing the victims, and lets all focus on who the villain actually is.
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To all the Trott/Finance supporters
John Roper assured the savers there was no need for a compensation fund as Guernsey was too well regulated to need one. Joke of the century and on all laughing stock supporters.
When Mrs (I’m too scared, so I stay anonymous) P invested in rusty bullion, the terms of the contract would have spelt out in BIG letters ‘The value of your investment may go down as well as up and you may not get all of your money back.’ To my knowledge no bank deposit account overtly states this. Had this been a condition added when Landsbanki took over my Cheshire Account – a company lauded by those overpaid, weasel comedians at the GFSC – my money would have been moved, as would every other saver, and the GFSC would have been left with egg on its face. Erroneously I trusted the GFSC/Finance industry propaganda, as did others and left a large portion of money in Guernsey to support local industry and those that would have lost their jobs had Cheshire closed. It was not to chase high rates, high street building societies in the UK were offering better but we are barred from opening accounts there, but to support and trust Guernsey. I did move some to the IoM to diversify but I had less trust in them and so left the bulk of it in my home country. Fool that I was. Guernsey did not deserve that degree of loyalty or trust. Having experienced N. Rock’s demise and the fact that I could physically go to the local office and get my money out, I had trust in the GFSC to advise me if I should move my savings. But the GFSC were too busy saving their butts and the cosy finance cartel to advise savers. When we tried to remove our money on the Monday we were unaware it was too late. And that was someone living on this penurious, soulless rock. Savers on the other end of the Globe had no chance; it took over a week for them to find out their savings had gone.
So sleep well Mrs P and others, may I wish you the same health as the most afflicted of our GUERNSEY savers, that you may be able to experience their pain and their suffering. They did nothing wrong, nor did they display the avarice you imply. The pot calling the kettle black. They deserve better than your contempt and the risible action to date, by our supposedly venerable leaders.
And to the little men who run our island with no backbone beyond berating former supporters of Guernsey enterprise, I make no comment. You are beneath my contempt.
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Don’t hold your breath, our Supreme Leader will achieve nothing, shrug his shoulders and hope it will all go away.
What a shower!
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Im ready to be flamed for this comment, but
Why should he do anything?
8% return, so take the risk. Sadly the risk was greater than the return.
The depositors took the risk, and now they are suffering, as much as I dislike LT, its not his problem to sort out. If they didn’t want to lose it all, then they should not have gone for an 8% return.
Don’t get me wrong, I really do feel for these people, and I hope they do get some return, but this isn’t LTs fight.
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If not already published on TIG the CM has released a recent statement on Landsbanki in response to Dep. De Lisle’s questions in the Assembly.
http://www.ifcfeed.com/guernsey-articles/Chief-Minister-releases-Landsbanki-statement.aspx
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Dear Sanguine
I think the figure you quote here is not correct. You would at the time have had to commit your savings
for a fixed term of more than a year to achieve a little over 6 percent. Competitive but not unbelievable at the time. It is not the figure that counts, it’s the fact that the bank was under the jurisdiction of your islands’government.
Sadly we chose to use the nice safe friendly British Channel Islands instead of the Cayman Isles or Gibraltar or the Bahamas or……even the Isle of Man whose authorities at least have put their hands in their pockets and tried to help the victims.
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And I’m sorry too because I must take issue with the comments made by Martino regarding “chasing extremely attractive interest rates” . When I was looking for somewhere to temporarily deposit the proceeds of my house sale in Dec 2007 I split it between Landsbanki on deposit at 6.5% and Scarborough at 6.55%. So based on the criteria of high interest rates are you saying that Scarborough BS at the time I deposited the money was an unsafe investment? I understand what you say about the Icelandic financial situation during 2008 but can I allude gently to the UK Banking crisis of 2008 to date when the Chancellor of the Exchequer had to instigate a £500 BILLION rescue package ending up in the near nationalisation of most of the UK’s banks. Now that arguably is a warning sign! I’m sorry I do not have the financial nous and understanding of the financial markets you appear to have Martino, I was relying on something called a “financial regulatory authority” – well I’ve paid for it now….funny they haven’t in Icesave though, and yes funny Icelandic depositors in Iceland haven’t either….well silly stupid me. Right now Mattressbanki’s looking like a pretty good bet right now. Appalling interest rate but guess what – you get all your capital back – on demand.
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Sanguine: 8%? I may be wrong but I do believe the best LG (ever) offered was 7%, and that only on longer term accounts (years) and at the time when quite a few other banks were offering much the same.
I was getting a bit over 6% on my three month notice account and, in fact, was planning on moving those savings as LG had become uncompetitive. Some of the building societies were offering better rates for the notice periods I wanted.
The idea that LG were offering way-over-the-market rates is just a myth. Good, yes; exceptional, no.
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Taxpayers around the world have bailed out the banks, yet Guernsey, that is run by/for the finance sector and benefits more than most from these bailouts, could not even find it in itself to help its own Landsbanki savers. Shameful.
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Its amazing the naivety of most of the innocent / small savers investers who expected high returns on their small ammount of hard earned savings to be given the benefit of the doubt and be bailed out by the taxpayer.
Just because of the antics of the Wide Boys at the top, who have blown their money away.
Most dont realise that they are part of the Financial Gambling Jungle where it is
Dog eat Dog the savers are just the small prey in all this.
Dont give a Dam, Dont give a Hoot
Just got to be making the Loot Mentality
At the end of the day the path is being cleared for the cycle to start again.
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@Genghis “Taxpayers around the world have bailed out the banks, yet Guernsey, that is run by/for the finance sector and benefits more than most from these bailouts, could not even find it in itself to help its own Landsbanki savers. Shameful.”
Governments did not bail out the banks to save the savers. Banks have gone bust before and will go bust again without government intervention. The reason that governments saved the banks was to prevent the entire money system collapsing. That was not an issue in the LBG case and so the same political motives did not exist for Guernsey.
Should it have done so for reputational reasons? Probably yes, in hindsight. Was it obliged to do anything (morally or legally)? Not in my view.
People seem to forget that banks do go bust. You are not guaranteed to get your deposited money back if it does go bust. Banks have never been 100% safe. That is why you have depositors protection schemes.
The LBG depositors are mistakenly basing their complaints on the premise that they deserve a payout because other countries have paid out. That is a weak argument. Just because every other kid gets a new cricket bat to replace a broken one doesn’t mean you should.
The real complaint should be identifying what the GFSC did wrong (if anything) and what could have been done to prevent it. Just because the bank went bust does not mean that the regulator let people down. Sometimes bad things happen and people get burned.
But I have never seen any real evidence of the GFSC failing to do something that it could and should have done.
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My apologies, 6/7%, the fact still remains, this is high return, and so high risk. My savings are in premium bonds and government paper, and will always be, regardless of the economy. Savings are just that, I think many people have savings and investments confused.
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Landsbanki savers,
I know our CM and politicians are far from perfect but quite frankly if I was subjected to the constant slating that you are giving them on this post and the many others that have been on this website since the problem arose I don’t think I’d be bending over backwards to help you lot out!
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Hi darhlings! The weather is great here in the Maldives, must get round to sending the moderator a postcard, anyways…….
TL you’ve made a great point there: –
“The LBG depositors are mistakenly basing their complaints on the premise that they deserve a payout because other countries have paid out.”
The important word there is COUNTRIES. Guernsey isn’t one. The money used in both the ‘bailouts’ and the funds to pay off savers in the bankrupt banks came one way or another by issuing debt and hence devaluing the issuers currency. Guernsey can’t do this, admittedly we do have quite an interesting history of literary printing money, the original market buildings and a complete rebuild of Elizabeth College were funded by these means in fact.
However, and somewhat ironically considering that the current line-up in the Guernsey State Circus (Now on tour in Iceland) seems to be intent on creating the biggest economic black hole this side of Alpha Centauri, back then the issue of paper was incredibly carefully managed so as not to cause local inflation. There is no way this is possible with the sums of money involved in insuring Guernsey deposits and even if it was I really can’t see our politicians managing the issue in a responsible way.
I’ll take Tl’s point about banks failing further as well. Governments and fiat currencies eventually fail too, history tells us it’s inevitable. So there is actually is no way to make sure ANY money that you can’t actually touch is safe.
I’m back next Thursday Guernsey time so the Friday tea party will be on as usual if you have the rolling invite.
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Joe Baggot, you did indeed choose the Channel Islands, and in so doing YOU chose somewhere without a depositor’s protection scheme.
Your money is not safe wherever you put it – be that under the mattress, in the stock market, in property, or even in a bank ( despite what any corporate or government promises to the contrary ).
Guernsey never promised to guarantee your money. Landsbanki and the Icelandic government did. May I suggest you take up the matter with them ( who have broken their promises ) and not Guernsey ( who made no promises and therefore broke none … )
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Why is Deputy Trott so secretive about his dealings with the UK and Icelandic Govts over the Landsbanki failure. If he is working hard to help the return of the depositors money why doesn’t he publish minutes of meetings and notes of telephone conversations. Unless he can provide evidence of his hard work, the depositors, and his critics, will simply not believe him. And if he cannot be deemed credible over this issue, what credibility will he have on other matters – surely an untenable position for a Chief Minister.
In October 2008, Deputy Trott said Guernsey was commited to transparency when dealing with the OECD, so why does this transparency not extend to the Landsbanki issue.
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Sanguine
I think you are the one who is confused as they had them in savings and NOT investments. Are you suggesting all of us who deposit their money into a bank are at “high risk”? or just that bank?.
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