Store owner applauds the Boys’ car park clearance
Saturday 8th August 2009, 2:00PM BST.
SANDPIPER hopes an end to the long-running dispute over Cobo car park could be in sight.
Chief executive Tony O’Neill was delighted after a group called the Guernsey Boys removed abandoned vehicles from the land on Wednesday.
Sandpiper owns a Checkers Xpress next to the site and had been involved in a bitter dispute with self-proclaimed owner of the land Thomas Holroyd since the start of 2007.
Mr Holroyd had demanded £120,000-a-year rent to allow customers of Cobo businesses to park there.
Mr O’Neill said that the company could now see the light at the end of the tunnel.
‘This man slapped us with a six-figure rental demand but has not yet been able to prove he owns the land,’ he said.
‘We are delighted. We hope that very shortly the States will find a permanent legal solution and once we have that, we can then set about spending some money making the car park look as it should.’
He said Sandpiper had not been aware of the Guernsey Boys’ plan in advance.
‘Absolutely not, but I applaud them for their citizenship,’ he said. ‘They have been far more proactive on the issue than any other party.
‘I think it is fair to say the people have spoken.’
Advocate and former deputy John Langlois, who has represented the Castel parish legally for more than 30 years, was also pleased with the move.
‘It’s not before time,’ he said.
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Sandpiper are gonna be pleased… because they’ve got their free car park back, with no rubbish and haven’t had to spend a penny.
Let’s hope if Mr Holroyd is the owner that he gets the money he deserves.
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It really sums up Sandpiper does it not? Their prices are criminal so it makes sense this principle spreads outside of their stores. It shows they have no respect for the law and order of the island or its people applauding and encouraging vigilantism. I for one will not shop at any of their stores in future. Any business that supports any form of criminal behaviour should be driven from these shores……. Lets be honest Sandpiper are the only winners here and they are laughing all the way to the bank………..
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It is not just Sandpiper though who benefit from this car park. It is the whole area: the Cobo Stores, the chippy, the tea rooms, the chinese restaurant and of course the beachgoers.
Well done the Guernseyboys. Surely the lawyers must be able to tell whether Mr Holroyd really does have any ownership of this land. I thought all of it was ‘common land’ like L’Ancresse common, portsoif, vazon etc. Who did the conveyancing? There must be someone, somewhere who knows the answer. There is a parking sign up there so who allowed that and who has ever been given a ticket for parking over time? I never put my clock up there!
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No Pete sandpiper are not the only winners as molly says all the other outlets are as well.What I would like to know is who gave Holroyd permission for change of use into a scrap yard
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Looks like Holroyd does own the land. Look at http://www.cobocarpark.com.
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My comment has disapeared – looks like Holroyd does own the land as the Law Officers rulled on this issue in 1986!
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well done to the guernsey boys giving cobo back to the people of guernsey
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David Sutcliffe. I disagree. Nothing in that link shows that he owns the land:
1. the advice from the Law Officers is not shown. It could have been to say that the ownership was unclear and so advised the Post Office not to pay money for something when they were not assured of being able to benefit.
2. it has been stated elsewhere that the “consent” of the seigneurs at the time was obtained out of convenience, rather than legal necessity.
3. John Langlois has since revised his opinion.
4. This deals with the previous seigneurs. Nothing shows that Mr Holroyd or his mother obtaining ownwership of the land. You cannot acquire land by buying a fiefdom title – we are no longer feaudal in Guernsey.
5. Quite apart from the question of the ownership of the land, it is questionable whether AW Holdings can even be the seigneur either, as it is doubtful whether a company cannot act as a feudal lord.
I don’t know who owns the land but I am virtually certain that it is not Mr Holroyd. If he did, he would not have had to resort to dumping cars and he could have exercised his rights through the courts. He has not produced any evidence to show that he owns it. If he cannot prove that he owns it when he tries to do so, then it is a safe bet that he doesn’t own it.
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of course, that should read “doubtful whether a company can act as a feudal lord”
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OK, I’ve had a loooooong G&T, bitten my bottom lip, squinted at the situation and have an alternative view. Say for the sake of argument that the land turns out to be owned by the States (us) then with the current economic situation we should be leasing it to the businesses at market rates.
So what does a car parking space go for in Town at the moment? About £40 a week? Someone care to tell me how many spaces are down there? Even if we apply a discount for being on the West coast I suspect you’ll very quickly get to a figure similar to Mr Holroyd is asking for the area.
So once the much needed re-surfacing, maintenance, insurance etc is taken into account it will still be a good few years before we broke even on this deal and that’s with us (hypothetically) inheriting this as common land, not purchasing it as Mr Holroyd may (or may not) have done. Maybe it would actually be in everyone’s interest to give the land to him no matter what the current ownership proves to be? As long as the needed work is carried out by him. The last thing we need right now is another piece of land requiring expensive maintenance works in the States property portfolio.
All that is unless you think that Checkers should be effectively subsidised by the tax payer?
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I just wonder why Sandpiper hadn’t cleared the car park itself?. Why wait for someone else to do the work for them?
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Stephen John – simple really, they aren’t legally liable if the police decide a crime was committed.
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It isn’t Crown land otherwise the Law Officers or the Crown would have ended this dispute.
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JC, I agree but I not sure who owns the land. It dosen’t seem to be the Crown, the States or the Parish!
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TL – it looks like everyone is very good at revising their opinion – everything Langlios says seems to change.
If there was any doubt, as a previously respected Advocate would he put in clause 6? It looks as though he had confirmation from the Law Officers.
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it is in the interest of all guernsey people to protect their rights against commercial businesses who in this case{ Sandpiper} appears to be trying to gain access and use of land it does not own for free.Whether or not Mr. Holroyd is the owner of this plot of land is immaterial, it is for the Staes through their records to affirm ownership and if confirmed then to take action against Mr. Holroyd for any breaches of his holding.
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Further to my previous comments, the so called Gurnsey boys are also at risk of a charge of theft of property and trespass.
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I don’t believe that Guernsey has any Trespass Laws Roger. Criminal Damage and taking a vehicle without the owners consent certainly.
Before anyone says that the vehicles were independently valued at £0 – that makes no difference. Criminal Damage does not need property to have a value attached to it nor such damage de-valuing it (that only applies in respect of compensation / restoration – not the charge itself)
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roger wing
I have been told Guernsey has no trespass law.
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Roger Wing
Re your first comment (12/08 4.03)
I agree, sandpiper should not be getting use of this land for free, whoever owns this land is due some repatriation for sandpipers use of this land.
Re your second comment (12/08 4.08)
So is TH going to take every single person who’s used Cobo car park in the last 3-4 years to court for trespassing is he??
Also given that TH has said the cars can be dumped, they are clear of theft too.
Anyone else notice the irony in TH claiming he is paying for insurance on the land in case of personal injury and then dumping a load of cars on there thus likely increasing the risk of personal injury??
I reckon if somebody had seriously hurt themselves on the land and tried to sue TH he’d be running in the opposite direction exclaiming “my mistake, I read the deeds wrong, its the states land!!”
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To say Sandpiper are the only winners just shows why you have had this problem going on for so long.
I am a tourist and will be coming again in a few weeks (not booked Cobo as last year) and I thought the car park was an utter disgrace last year AND tourists have no idea what is (or is not) going on and therefore it makes the whole island look bad.
I have seen lots of comments supporting the childlike fool BUT surely the Island as a whole should be dissappointed in the way it has NOT handled this.
I hope you have sorted the sewer pipe out because last yr Fermain Bay was closed and this year I am nr there…….
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How can Sgt Marshall say no laws have been broken over the cars being damaged and subsequently removed from Cobo? Police Corruption springs to mind?
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How can the Guernsey Boys get away with their behaviour over the removal of the cars at Cobo scott free I ask – obviously in league with Sandpiper and the Police. Shocking behaviour and very worrying for everyone in Guernsey.
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I agree with David, it now seems clear that Mr Holroyd owns the land.
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How ridiculous that the land at Cobo is still not sorted. It certainly appears that Sandpiper and the Police are in cahoot’s – how can it be seen as ok to criminally damage and remove cars and then not be prosecuted?
If the land belonged to the States then surely it would have been sorted by now – the land must belong to someone else and the ‘big boys’ obviously don’t like this fact.
I am sure that Sandpiper make enough money to pay for car parking.
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M Wildblood
Perhaps it is time that George Le page the Police Chief or and Geoff Mahy the Home Minister tells us exactly what happened, what advice his officers gave etc.
We should be told if the Police have changed the law.
I’m starting to suspect that this is another mess up similar to the daft advice given by the Law officers in claiming that the £4000 payment to firefighters was not remuneration.
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I think that the States should come clean before they get any more ‘egg on their face’ – they know that Mr Holroyd owns the land, the documentation proves it.
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Have the Police charged the Guernsey Boys yet and if not why not?
Nobody wants a Guernsey Police Force that turns a blind eye!
I don’t support how he went about things but it does seem he had every right to do so as the Agreement is legally binding.
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Mikey – which document proves it? None of the documents posted by Holroyd show that he acquired the land.
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well done Guernsey boys ! I dont shop at Checkers myself but that car park has been a public car park for donkeys years, i am just glad in has been returned to the Guernsey public.I pass the car park every day, and it is nice to see it back to its old way. It’s not just people that shop at checkers that use the car park, people going to the beach,post office,chippy or even just people parking to go for a walk. Mr Holroyd should clear off and leave us Guerns alone. Well done boys.
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I am no supporter of Sandpiper, but they are not the only ones who use it, as has been said so often and forgotten by some. We all have use of it, and again not only Sandpiper.
All you Holyrod supporters, and sanctimonious Pete Burtenshaw, get a life.
Holyrod has about as much rights to own it,as me.
Good for the Guernsey Boys, do not worry about the wimps,the vast majority of real Guerns love you.
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