Islands’ autonomy ‘is no longer appropriate’
Monday 10th August 2009, 1:00PM BST.
GUERNSEY’S 800-year old constitutional relationship with the UK has to change, according to a member of the House of Lords.
Lord Wallace has been vocal in recent times with his concerns at the constitutional relationship between the UK and the Crown Dependencies.
Speaking exclusively to the Guernsey Press, William Wallace said the centuries-old understanding – that the UK would always respect the dependencies’ right to autonomy – was no longer appropriate.
‘You cannot say that a promise given 800 years ago in totally different circumstances fits in any part today,’ he said.
‘The situation with the Channel Islands is totally different since even 35 years ago because of financial globalisation. One can see how the economies of Guernsey and Jersey have changed in that time.
‘Both used to be based primarily on horticulture and tourism, compared to finance as they are today.’
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Evidently Lord William Wallace isn’t into freedom like his painty faced namesake of Hollywood fame?
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I totally agree. Let’s go independent.
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Independence it is then….
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The Kilbrandon Report was outdated as soon as it was written and he does not appear to have learned anything since then.
What right does the UK have to decide that it can change the relationship?? None. Did no-one tell him that the Empire is over?
Time for him to go back to school, methinks.
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Well in the first place; they can; that includes that Wallace feller Just hold their tongues.
If we had been female(No offence girls) then we could claim to having been raped:
For that is what the UK did to us when their so called King was on the throne. (Uncrowned I might add) he John decided to Take the Islands.
The population of Guernsey at the time was mostly illiterate, and the Smarmy Lords of the day acted as they have done throughout the Empire: Taken by force under scheming foothold.
Elisabeth the 1st gave us in her reign full independence to do as we the Islanders thought fit; albeit within reason to the Crown. Then along came the one who lost his head, yes he did he had it chopped off and good riddance he did more harm to Guernsey than any one else. Of course we were and I believe in our hearts still are anti Royalists., whereas Jersey went the whole hog and rallied to the crown, we preferred Liberty to choose our own way.
Yes I for one wish full independence; if we are to have Finance, then under our Flag and we are the boss, and none of these types feathering their own pockets with our aid.
Get rind of them, and start afresh
Come on Guernsey act not talk.
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There is no doubt that Lord Wallace’s comments are extremely patronising. However, he does make a valid point about the island being susceptible to corruption in the event of independence.
Given the States’ recent track record for effective Government can we really be trusted to run our own affairs? The unpalatable truth is that we need an authority figure and that sadly means the UK.
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Eric:
Is this true? I was under the impression that in fact it was ‘William the Conqueror’ or the Duke of Normandy who did the raping of England and that is how the ancient link between England, Normandy, and the Channel Islands began. This was in 1066 – remember?
King John reined 1199-1216 and lost mainland Normandy to France (King Philip II). The Channel Islands chose to remain loyal to England – and in return King John granted certain rights in 1215 allowing them to be virtually self-governing, subject to Royal assent and enactments. This is why we have to approach the Privy Council if we want a new law.
So in fact, quite the reverse of raping the Channel Islands, King John gave them a freedom from rule that had not been seen since 933 when the Duke of Normandy ‘claimed’ them.
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Truth man
Partly true:
However France had nothing to do with it; Normandie was separate to Gaul. France became France after the Franks.
Normandie was named such after the Viking Rolf, brother to the then King of Norway; Rolf was banished from Norway for daring to make raids on his own people.
Rolf took the place now known as Normandie and called it Normandie after the Normans, that was in AD 830, I 912 came a Danish prince and took over Normandie his name was Rollo The Frank king fearing for a complete take over gave Normandie back to the Vikings.
In 1034 or there abouts Harald a relation to the King of England Edward, a scheming type made boat trip and got lost ending up at Normandie, William was the King there: to get on the good side of William, he had promised that when he became King of England he would Marry William’s daughter who was only 12 years old at that time,
Well Edward died, and by stealth Harald was king, he never honoured his contract of marriage, and William feeling slighted invaded and at Hastings won the day, William now became king of England.
And it is from that the fantasy story of Robin Hood came about,
‘The English never liked any one else but there own on the throne, although they came to England as mercenaries.
This story could go on for ever, but what I write hear is the true version, the-other was written by England (naturally)
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We almost lost our ‘ancient rights’ after the English Civil War – we backed the wrong horse.
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NEVER Neil Inder.
never will a Guernsey man bend a knee to appease the others.
Charles the 1st was a ruthless man, and even his own dishonoured him: They did the right thing
I applaud them for that.
I would sooner be poor than accept the bribes to be part of something else.
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Thats nice a history but what about today not 1066 lets not talk about the past but look to the future
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Truth Man – now you’ve done it! Don’t get into a history discussion with Eric, it goes on and on ;-) (that’s a friendly wink by the way Eric!).
and no, this time I cannot be bothered to present the French version of the formation of Normandie or to argue that this Island decided to remain true to the Norman Duke following 1204 – it had nothing to do with being raped by the English. King John (Jean sans Terre) wasn’t even English….doh, now I’ve gone and done it myself!!!…..
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Eric, during the civil war Guernsey was Parlamentarian and Jersey Royalist. Castle Cornet being under siege for nine years and supplied by the Jersey fleet turned her guns on Guernsey.
At the Restoration, it is well documented that Charles was non-too-pleased by our Parliamentarian stance. After a fair amount of grovelling by our government and the fact that Charles had other bigger fish to fry, we managed to retain our autonomy.
The Jersey Governor, for his support of the Crown, got given a large piece of real estate in the Americas renamed New Jersey.
Last time I looked there was no state called New Guernsey
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Sagaman
Wow you think the UK government are trust worthy?
and of course no corruption there either.
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One of the problems these days are the fact that in schools of my day only English history was told and taught.
The fact that they sauntered around the world and decided we want that and just took it.Empire days.Oh yes they were celebrated by us nitwits believing all we were taught; Then we grew up, we travelled wow! what a different story.
Afghanistan is one example of utter stupidness, they tried in the 1800s and lost thousands of soldiers; especially bad was in the Khyber pass.
Then Russia had a go; they had to give up America supplied sophisticated weapons to the Taliban. and those weapons are now turned on them and our boys, and they’ll never win it’s impossible. They say they’re after Bin Laden, If they had been a bit more diplomatic they would have got him. Now the Taliban protect him. 40 years says the big chief of military in England, I believe if we are allowed to look down in 400 years time, they will still be there.
So History! get out of it; from the UK side it’s propaganda of the worst kind, and it still goes on.
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TL
And the big fight of the time of John was for a King; Richard by name that spent less than three years in England. and was so sure of his country men that he married a Flemish Girl
Still there you are;
It might sound strange to some but the Germans were eager to tell us Islanders in the Occupation; that word had been given that the Islands were there for the taking; they were eager also to tell us that they never wanted to fight the English they’re our cousins; which came constantly in there chit chats.
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HOW DARE THEY!!!! Independence anyday. Cheek of it, talk about the filthy corrupt practices in the UK and they have the nerve to talk about the possiblity here. At least with a small population with the ability to gossip, corruption can be checked just by the proximity factor. In the UK the politicians are so far removed from thier consituents, no one has a clue what they get up to. That’s why a free press is so crucial.Come on Guernsey STAND UP. Don’t let one snivelling politician with an agenda get the better of you. Fight for your independence now and crush this utter nonsense.
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Guernsey could be ‘susceptible to corruption in the event of independence’..?!
News Flash! Guernsey already is corrupt – as is the UK Government’s politicians (according to recent reports) – so exactly how is putting their dishonest, embezzling representatives in charge of ours going to help things?
I always thought the House of Lords were a useless bunch of over privileged hoorahs from the dark ages, now I know it’s true.
Lord Wallace should get back to his enormous estate in the Southern counties (that’s probably the size of Guernsey) and take his out of touch views with him.
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It would appear “Lord Wallace of Saltaire” had asked a question about the Crown Dependencies contribution for the UK covering external services such as representation and ‘defence’
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200809/ldhansrd/text/90715w0002.htm#09071576000689
Sagaman
“Given the States’ recent track record for effective Government can we really be trusted to run our own affairs?”
If that’s what you believe then the approach must surely be to change the government through the democratic process, not panic and agree some ermin clad apparatchik.
And this from a Lib Dem who was ‘crowned’ through a process that’s only slightly older than our 800 year agreement. Does Wallace have no sense of irony?
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Eric,
I didn’t mean to get into a big debate. My point was merely that you were not accurate in saying that John raped the island. He did quite the reverse and gave Guernsey an autonomy that had not been allowed under the rule of the Duke(s) on Normandy,in other words since 933.
And I also find your take on the English early version of what is now known as globalisation quite amusing and rather simplistic. Did any good come of the English colonising countries in that small period their of history? I suspect you don’t think so!
Of course, we mustn’t forget that English is just a made up word and that the country we now call England is as it is due to centuries of invasion from other ruling nations. So let’s bin the ‘English bashing’ for a while – it’s often all to convenient to gaze back into history and stop at the point that England became England. Why not keep going back? You might actually end up finding out who is really to blame for your sour grapes!! Perhaps the Danes, Jutes, Normans, Romans, etc etc etc.
Love and peace (!). And I do agree with one of the previous posts – it’s all in the past. Let’s get on with the future.
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Yes TL,
a friendly wink; as the guard did when he led the the prisoner to the gallows.
Be honest; you don’t like what I write, but you wish to be seen as as a kindly soul.
I’ve met ‘em all, including the cousins of the *Masters*
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Scarlett:
How right you are about those money grabbing and land grabbing aristocrats of England.
They came as Mercenaries, and because of their likes, that is the land owners of the Brits, who were the worst type of Corruption; they grabbed all they could see. and today the ordinary English people have to suffer for their greed.
I would like to see a Government, with the GUTS; who would split up all that land and share it out.
Mind you when they went as settlers to America. they did the same; and it would take days to travel around all those Ranches.
And that thing who calls himself a Lord has the audacity to talk of contributions,
He should be hung drawn and quartered, As they did in those Good old days’.
Mind you we had many in Guernsey; The Bailiff’s Cross memorises one of them
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News over the weekend about the Turks and Caicos Islands. If they can do this there, why not here if the UK feels threatened.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8202339.stm
” The UK has imposed direct rule on the Turks and Caicos Islands after an inquiry found evidence of government corruption and incompetence.
The administration of the UK territory in the Caribbean has been suspended for up to two years and power transferred to the UK-appointed governor. ”
I wouldn’t trust anything the UK says or does.
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Bazza
I think you will find that in Turks & Caicos the level of government corruption was rather extreme, i.e. politicians selling government land and personally pocketing the proceeds. We might not think much of some of our politicians but I think Turks & Caicos is on rather a different scale !
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Also, T&C is a British Overseas Territory, whereas we are a Crown Dependency. There are some key differences in the constitutional relationship with the UK.
It is interesting that Wally Wallace is arguing that an 800 year old arrangement is no longer appropriate but yet he rules out independence. So what do you propose Wally? If you forget the past and look to the present, modern concepts of self-determinism would rule out any imposition of UK control and points to independence.
I am not necessarily in favour of complete independence but if Wally is proposing to change the arrangement, that is the only direction in which it will move.
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Truthman
How can anyone say truthfully that good came out of colonising other peoples countries. it’s robbery of the worst kind, Gunboat law-
In that period you wish to call small period of their history they manged to Make a nation Drug addict (Opium) China.
Do away with the ruling bodies in India (The Princes) Make Australia a prison Colony.
Fight boors in South Africa, be the first country to install concentration camps, and as they now try on in Guernsey , they tried heavy taxes on the new country of America. (Boston tea party)
They caught and transported thousands of Africans to slavery in the Americas.
Stole the place we know as California, because of the Gold rush, and it eventually became part of America,
Nearer home they squashed the Scots in unfair battle, then tricked the Welsh ( they’ve always been easy prey) caused terrible hardship in Ireland causing famine, and now their descendants in America will fight for any favours that might be shown to UK.
It never seems to end. and you think that it was just a small period in History, Thank goodness for that; otherwise a Nazi like world might have arisen.
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