‘Name and shame’ may follow boating incidents
Thursday 27th August 2009, 2:30PM BST.
Two men were picked up by the lifeboat, assisted by the Travel Trident, north of Herm on Tuesday night and while they had plenty of beer, harbour master Captain Peter Gill said their rigid inflatable was without safety or navigation equipment. (Picture by Tom Tardif, 0832190)
TWO men adrift in a rigid inflatable with no safety equipment or lights narrowly avoided being hit by a Condor fast ferry, it emerged yesterday.
And they were spotted only after setting fire to an oily rag. There was also evidence that the pair had been drinking.
The lifeboat picked up the two men off Herm at 11.45pm on Tuesday.
They were talking to St Peter Port Radio by occasional use of a mobile phone and the harbour radio station was directing a Travel Trident vessel towards the pair using that information.
‘St Peter Port Radio told us that the men were going to set fire to an oily rag and that was how we eventually spotted them,’ said skipper Steve Lowe. Herm Trident was involved in the late-night rescue for about an hour.
‘If they hadn’t had a mobile phone, goodness knows what might have happened. The Condor fast ferry would have gone through the place where we picked them up about 20 minutes before.’
Harbour master Captain Peter Gill said: ‘There is evidence that they had been drinking. That’s not to say they were drunk, but drinking and boating don’t mix.’
As lifeboat operations manager, Capt. Gill said he could understand why some made the argument that people who put to sea inappropriately prepared and who caused the lifeboat to be called should be made to meet the cost.
‘The RNLI is a charitable organisation which relies entirely on voluntary support to deliver a service,’ he said. ‘That’s the traditional position and I wouldn’t want to see it change.’
But he would not rule out the possibility of naming and shaming the perpetrators of such irresponsible behaviour in future.
- To read Guernsey Press stories in full click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
Island Life
All about Guernsey
Ambassador of the Year 2011
History & Heritage
Visitor Information
Guernsey's government
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
Useful Links
Muppets! Send them a bill
Report abuse
No, No, No.
I agree that these individuals are complete idiots, but if you were to go down the route of charging people for rescue then you will get people delaying calling for help and thus putting themselves at even more risk.
I think the same could happen if the RNLI were to “name and shame”, people might delay calling for help as they are more concerned about repercussions than their own safety, this delay could also put rescue crews in greater danger.
This is something that will continue to occur, but despite being terribly irresponsible these sort of people and potentially the rescue crews should not be put at more risk for fear of having to pay a rescue bill.
I must re-iterate that I am not in any way condoning going to sea without the proper equipment, but charging or naming and shaming could potentially lead to people getting into more difficulty which could also lead to lives being lost.
Report abuse
In Ontario, Canada, they would have received a significant fine for not having the required safety equipment on board, and also, if over the limit, they would have also lost their vehicle driving licence
Report abuse
Sorry Capt.
You are completely wrong.
Most certainly they should be fined and heavily and pay the costs for a rescue.
Tough on them. If you have a boat, at the very least, you should have life-jackets, a radio and flares.
Far cheaper than the cost of a rescue and ultimately thier lives or others, attempting to rescue them!
Do they have insurance?
I believe that if you have a boat, you must pass a basic test of competance and by law, have the very basic of safety equipment on-board.
GD.
Report abuse
Returning from St.Malo to St.Helier one foggy day, out of the mist came a tiny open motorboat.
Two lads headed to us, s/y SLIEMA and asked if we could lend them a map … they had come from mainland France. No safety equipment, no spare fuel can, certainly no nav. aids and this was before mobile phones. Skipper said you’d better follow us past Les Minquiers and we can direct you in right direction. More or less.
The point is, if the RNLI are out to rescue fools, there might be a boat in REAL distress out there.
So, send those idiots the bill.
Report abuse
As a seafarer by profession I think this sort of action by these two individuals should be condemned, yes name and shame them good men and woman have to put to sea to rescue idiots like these two all around the the world on daily basis.
Report abuse
This is a very interesting debate, with strong arguments on both sides. To those who think they should pay the rescue cost I put to you this scenario:
“So the next 2 fools who go out with no equipment and get into difficulty, wait an extra hour before attempting to call for help on their cell phone, and by the time they are found this time they have been lost. The reason they waited an extra hour is because they hung onto the hope a passing vessel might see them as they knew they couldn’t afford to pay a rescue bill.”
I donate to the RNLI and Air Search knowing full well that they get called out for people like this, and despite them being complete idiots, I’m still glad they went home to their families.
Report abuse
I agree 101% with capt.
Report abuse
How about a seafaring code or even law, making it mandatory to carry relevant and up to date safety equipment with an annual inspection when updating a licience or compentcy certificate, and while we are at it drink driving regs equivilant to that on land. Although I can see the negative effects of policing this and being labelled a kill joy, i beleive that any expenditure by the state policing it, would be better than losing lives to the sea.
Report abuse
I also agree with Captain Oveur.
If people wait to call for help until the last moment it is likely to be dark before the lifeboat gets launched. The odds of being found in the dark compared to daylight are slim.
GsyDonkee “I believe that if you have a boat, you must pass a basic test of competance and by law, have the very basic of safety equipment on-board.”
No such “laws” exist….
Report abuse
Captain Oveur is right on the money, and whilst I appreciate the points raised by the other posters, there is no way of enforcing new policies. Besides, surely the time and money would be better spent policing our roads and trying to reduce the increasing rate of accidents and deaths caused by motorists?
I’m a boat owner and it’s simply plain common sense to go out with flares, radio, lifejackets and spare fuel. The sad fact is though, there will always be people devoid of any common sense and they’re the ones who should be named and shamed when they inconvenience the rescue services like the morons in this article. People like this need to be aware of the repercussions of their actions and public ridicule is the only realistic way forward without ruining boating for the rest of us.
Report abuse
If i ride my cycle under the influence or without a bell I can be fined and lose my licence but those with boats are expected to police themselves and if they want – have safety equiptment. They should be like every the RAC, the Ambulance service. No more contributions from me if those who can afford these boats abuse it without consequence. At minimum ant berth at the Marina is lost, they are made to pay a fine and as per the ambulance – picked up and have to pay later if they are at risk
Report abuse
CO
On one hand you could say a fine would stop people from calling for help and I agree with that.
However
It may actually serve the purpose of stopping these idiots going out without the correct equipment in the first instance.
Report abuse
GsyBlue, at the risk of diverting the topic I would like to point out that you cannot lose your licence (I presume you mean driving licence) for being under the influence whilst riding a bicycle. As far as I am aware under Rule 66 of the highway code a bell is recommended by not mandatory. I am unsure if local laws are different though and stand to be corrected.
Back onto the topic. Rules and regulations could certainly play a part, but the sheer lack of man power to police these mean many would chose to ignore it, and more than likely it will be the same people who without the rules and regulations would go out poorly equipped. So I doubt it would really have much of an effect on reducing the number of “idiots”.
Interestingly enough there is a law that requires any user of a marine radio to pass an exam, thankfully I can’t recall anyone being prosecuted for not having a licence, I would much rather people fitted and used radios to their vessels despite not bothering to get the relevant licence as this is an important piece of safety kit, not only for them, but if they are listening out they may also be able to relay a message or assist another boat.
Report abuse
Hi all.
Whilst I agree with the reasoning behind ‘Capts’ comments, as ‘The man’ says, this might make them think twice before going out.
Peter.
I know it isnt law……but it should be! Surely you wouldnt give your kid the keys to a car before passing a test proving his/hers competance on the roads.
Be it on land or at sea, you basically have a machine in your hands which can kill either themselves or worse, some poor innocent person enjoying a day out. If you have a boat in the marina, I strongly believe that basic checks should be undertaken to ensure everyones safety. Not passing the buck here, but if the Harbour Authority is prepared to take money off you for mooring a vessel, it should meet certain criteria before being allowed out to sea.
Surely certain standards should be met and policed by these authorities.
I would be really p*ssed off if I got into trouble at sea at the same time some incompetant mouron did, putting my family at risk because they couldnt be bothered to adhere simple rules of safety at sea.
Some deterant needs to be put in place and soon.
SOMEONE WILL DIE!
GD.
Report abuse
In addition to my last, I would like to put my hands together and give heartwarming thanks to all those services who, without a second thought, are prepared to help at a moments notice and in their own time, to help people in their hour of need.
Thanks again.
GD.
Report abuse
Peter, you are right there are no such laws but i think you will find that it was dark when they made the call so they were not going to be found in daylight anyway. yes they should be made to pay, I may be wrong but if you have a road accident even through no fault of your own do you not have to pay for the ambulance please correct me if I am wrong
Report abuse
Checking boats moored in the marina is one thing, but what about the many many more that are tied up at other locations, or stored on trailers in peoples gardens. You will never get rid of the “it wont happen to me” mentality found in some people, thankfully the minority.
For those of you saying people should pay for rescue, where would you draw the line between those who “deserve” to be rescued, and those that must pay for rescue. If for example someone had the recommended kit on board but had failed to have their engine serviced this year and had an engine failure, should they then pay too? Or what about the person who forgot to pack their handheld VHF radio but had everything else, should they then pay for a rescue, despite being a responsible mariner they made a mistake in forgetting to pack something?
I don’t think we can compare this to paying for an ambulance as the 2 environments and scenarios are so very different.
It would be interesting to know of all those “idiots” who have been rescued in the past by the RNLI, how many of them now do have properly equipped boats.
Report abuse
I don’t agree with paying for the emergency services as its clear people would wait too long before calling for help but why are their names not common knowledge? If I was in trouble at sea a bit of embarrassment is never going to put you off wanting to be rescued.
If I crashed my bike whilst drunk and the ambulance picked me up I might be named in the press so why is boating any different?
However, I cannot see why people don’t get fined for being drunk in charge of a boat. Its easy to check and the fines could match the roads. A boating ban is unenforcable though so becomes irrelevant.
Divers, other boats and swimmers are all at risk from drunk boaters so people should think twice. Risk of spot checks by the police in the marina or harbour patrol in the harbour and a heavy fine would help here.
Report abuse
Agree with that! There should be hefty fines for drinking while in charge of a boat.
Report abuse
I think you are moving away from the issue here.
Maybe they had a couple to drink, the fact is they were soooo desperate, they had to light an oily rag on fire in order to get attention! Lucky it wasnt a larger fire!!!
Point is, it should be regulated. If you have a boat, you should have some form of licence. This would include a radio competency licence. It should also be insured. Maybe some form of marine MOT?
If its in a marina, it would be easy to police, a sticker in the window to say its seaworthy and safe maybe.
I think people know where im going with this.
At the end of the day, we – as boat owners, have a massive responsibility to uphold, not only for ourselves but for others.
Yes, they deserved to be rescued, however, as on some occasions, the RNLI put their lives at serious risk for these idiots. MAKE THEM PAY!
How much money has been used from the charity?
I know I keep on harping about it, but simple precautions would have saved an awful amount of grief!
GD.
Report abuse
I beleive Cpt Oveur is right, you can’t charge for the service for his reason stated, but as one who has to sit at home worrying about the rescuers while they are out there, I think like the idea that fines could be introduced for lacking safety equipment.
Report abuse
These people were just idiots and give the good safety concious pleasure boaters like myself a bad reputation. They obviously did not have any clue as to where they were going or where all the rocks are. Do they even know the rules of the road (at sea), I doubt it.
I have only been boating three years but before even choosing one I did the boating for beginners course at the college of FE and bought lifejackets, first aid kit, flares and fire extinguisher before we even used it the first time. Our boat has a radio, compass and GPS plotter and all fitted before we used it and the boat is only small.
Yes you do need an exam to use a marine radio but this only takes a day to do. In an emergency you can use it without a license provided you use the right radio procedure.
I noticed all the booze they had on board, I always thought there was a law against drinking and boating, maybe I am wrong, but there should be.
I think they should get a fine or punishment of some sort for incompitence at sea.
Report abuse
NMAE & SHAME That’s what I say. Then send them a bill for the RNLI time and trouble.
Report abuse
This is a disgrace. It’s the kind of thing you see in the UK.
Boats should be banned. I bet some owners have children. Would those beautiful children let their parents go on a boat, drunk, and risk death, leaving the children orphaned and probably sold into slavery? Some of them might be as young as twelve!!!
These boats are a menace to society.
Have you ever talked to a child whose parents have been killed in a drunken boating accident?
Well have you?
Report abuse
The RNLI are always prepared to go to someones aid whatever the circumstances. Their priority is to save life, and where possible to save the vessel. They are not obliged to save the vessel, but when they do they could claim salvage. The RNLI as far as I know have not claimed salvage for many years, if ever.
The RNLI could, if it wished, rescue the people, and then when it was established they were ill equiped either decide not to rescue the vessel (a difficult decision if the boat isn’t sinking due to being a hazard to shipping) or rescue the vessel and claim salvage. It would help if the RNLI had the mandate to claim up to 100% salvage using their discretion which would be influenced by the level competence and equipment on board the distressed vessel.
Report abuse
To me this is an extreme example of the general ignorance shown by many boat owners in the Bailiwick waters. Coming down on people like this can only cajole others to improve their habits.
To gauge the stupidity and ignorance I would suggest that the police and Harbour Master Mr Gill just moor up for several hours with camera and video equipment outside Herm harbour one sunny weekend day.
Owners of RIBs, jet bikes and cabin cruisers all have EQUAL disregard for boating rules, regulations and general etiquette. But we almost never see any police action taken. It will be interesting to see if any charges are pressed for a waste of valuable lifeboat resources.
Report abuse
You have to pass a driving test on our roads but there is no requirement for boatowners.
Everyone knows that sailing/boating is potentially a highly dangerous activity but there is no check on a boatowner’s level of competence or knowledge of seacraft.
Report abuse
Charging people to be rescued is basically what caused the penlee lifeboat disaster.
Report abuse
I agree – some kind of ‘fit for purpose’ licence or certificate for both vessel/equipment and skipper.
JL Seagull – I look forward to reading your posts, they make my day!!!
Report abuse
Russ what charges do you think could be brought?
Did they not really need rescuing? Of course they did if they had not been rescued they probably would have perished. This is not like some attention seeker phoning up and saying they saw flares off the coast when they didn’t, and getting a kick out of the ensuing action, these people were in a life threatening situation.
The fact that they got into trouble in the first place is of course foolish and a huge error of judgement but they were in a pretty dire position. If someones house catches fire because they fell asleep with a lit cigarette and had no smoke detector should they be charged for the fire service to come out and rescue them? No, in both cases they need educating.
Hopefully the high profile of this story has educated some others into buying some safety equipment.
Report abuse
Captain Oveur
With you all the way on this. A good talking to by the rescue service and i`m sure they wont be so foolish again (i hope).
Report abuse