1

arapaho

i could have told them that for £20000 so could everyone else in guernsey for the last 20 years

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3

bella

real action must be taken on this report,we have to many people in the states who get elected, and suddenly think they are intelligent and celebrities, not servants of the people

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5

Alex

Well at least there`s a glimmer of hope if they can recognise themselves in a mirror! Perhaps the decisions are difficult because of the time they take to make them e.g the airport runway length is a prime example, that`s been rumbling on for thirty years.

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7

Stephen John

The present system of Government which Mr Colman is so opinionated about was set up by the States just a few years ago.

Mr Colman’s report effectively judges the structural performance of the States by standards and benchmarks that by and large apply to executive government and not to the system that was determined for Guernsey.

What Mr Colman has done is to provide us with some fascinating opinions. He says for instance that the “current system is a form of executive government” because it has a Policy Council. Yet, some time later he tells us that function of the Policy council is primarily to advise. Something rather different to the executive form of government he is used to in the UK.

One statement that is hilarious is that the PAC has recognised the importance of good governance. Well, given the history of PAC, this comment must surely be part of the consultants nodding technique, where the consultant soft talks those who commissioned the report (his paymaster)

At another point consultant Colman tells us “weaknesses do not reflect the ability or performance of individuals in government” Yet a few paragraphs later he claims weaknesses result because of “individuals being unwilling to accept the discipline to make things work”.

In 1.11 the report tells us that the States is a collection of autonomous business units. This theme of autonomous department s runs through the report.

The problem is that this collection of autonomous departments is the formal structure voted for by the States and loved by many of the existing members of the States of deliberation. This tends to qualify the impact of the finding that the States… is neither directed nor controlled as a single corporate entity” . No surprise there as the States went to great length to ensure the absence of a single corporate entity.

As in the Fallagate review, Mr Colman fails to realise the function of the Policy Council when he claims the Policy council has only limited success in meeting the remit for which it was created”

Is Colman taking here of executive government or the advisory function of the Policy Council. I rather think he is speaking of the former and the comment should be re written as “ The Policy Council does not meet the remit it doesn’t have, but which I Jeremy Colman thinks it should have and which I will mark its performance against”.

A tad unfair I would say.

Perhaps Mr Colman reveals his true autocratic management style when he criticises those members of the States who use the media. Some of us would see the use of the media as an essential part of the control of the any flavour of government, be it the executive government of Pa Broon of Downing Street, or the system that was decided for Guernsey and which is so offensive to Mr Colman.

Whilst many of us have been openly critical of the States, as well as the performance of those deputies and civil servants who run the States, it is for the people of Guernsey and its representatives to determine the type of governance it needs and not for a hired hand to take a set of criteria and tick the boxes in the traditional UK style, a form of government that is hardly a form or standard to recommend.

All in all a mediocre report that tells fails to tell us anything we don’t already know and makes utterances of leadership et al, that are plucked from a text book and not reality.

A waste of money.

Where do we go from here?

Seems a rerun of the executive government versus the autonomous departments with an advisory Policy Council form we already have, to determine what is right for Guernsey.

Let Guernsey decide what it needs are, not Mr Colman.

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9

Arnald

They haven’t jsut had it easy, CD. They’ve been allowing crime to become a mainstay of Guernsey. They have believed the pernicious misinformation from the regulators and the finance industry has now admitted that there is enough dirty business here to raise ‘fears’ of an ‘exodus’ of the filthiest cash imaginable.

Guernsey has proven the critics’ “lies” to be true.

We should be ashamed.

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11

Ray

Eric

I agree that the present system is not ideal but PLEASE keep party politics out of the island

Have you ever watched the House of Commons debates where perhaps five or six members from each side are in the Chamber until voting time when they all pour in to vote the way they have been ordered to?

Talk about money for old rope

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13

Darren

The states had a qualified Governance expert in their Audit Director in 2006 however they let them go as they were on a 5 year licence.

This person wanted to stay on, had changed Governance capabilty significantly however the SOG had better ideas, i.e. reduce the Internal Audit and Governance capability to zero persons.

How wise they were.

Not.

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15

Golden Brown

Lets go for a dictatorship! All in favour of Eric for Emperor of Guernsey say Ay! Arnald could be his Ambassador for foreign affairs. CD can be the Court Jester. Alas the rest of us will be the Plebliblions who shall obey.

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17

Molly

Governance is just an excuse for people who are unable to make a decision to hide behind. Most of it is nonsensical gobbledegook, writing reports about reports but not actually making any recommendations on anything.

At the risk of being accused of racism the civil service is now in serious danger of being run by non-islanders with no real insight into how the island has become successful – but just trying to build their own empires so that they can get 15 year licences. They do not appear to be accountable for anything.

There are many very hard working and enthusiastic civil servants at all levels – unfortunately they are being held back by dinosaurs who do not want change and cannot think for themselves but hide behind UK legislation and ideas (because that is all they know) : and we all know what a mess the UK is in.

One thing i have strong feelings about is party politics: we do not need it and it will not work in Guernsey. This is a small island and although the way the States is run is not perfect it is by no means the disaster which is made out by the media. We could perhaps cut the number of politicians we have but the real problem is so much money is being wasted on unnecessary reports – asked for by people who are incapable of doing their jobs. For goodness sake grow a back bone and take a risk. That is how the private sector works and it isn’t the lean machine that the GP would have us believe. I have moved from public to private and the problems are very similar – just that the private sector is not as open to scrutiny as the public sector.

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19

David

I’m not surprised that there are members of the Policy Council who weren’t prepared to have the vote published about who supported and who doesn’t support it. Let’s be honest – those who don’t support it are about to find that their current political careers are coming rapidly to an end.

However, I think that the voting public must insist that this vote is published so that we know exactly who is blindly supporting the current way in which the States works, or more correctly doesn’t work, so that we can make sure that they never again get elected into positions of responsibility or influence. The importance of this stance against the report is potentially far greater for the future of Guernsey than many people realise. The outside world is looking very closely at us and the other British Crown Dependencies. We have to get our act together, and very quickly too.

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21

Mal B Smith

Its all to do with Trust. Which deputy or deputies would you trust to run the States? Which deputies would you give executive powers to, like the Policy Council are asking for, to make important decisions on the spot and are then binding? Which deputy would you trust to make Chief Minister, who would have overall power over the States and his word would be law, just like the present Chief Minister is asking for. Would you trust the deputies that think of their parishioners, who voted them in? Or, would you trust the deputies who think only of themselves and believe they are more important because they hold a top post in the States? Would you trust a deputy that said they would support a certain project on their manifesto to get elected, then at the crucial moment vote against it? So, come on people of Guernsey, who do you think you could trust to lead us into the 21st century? How many time have you heard ‘Trust me I’m a Deputy’.

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23

Dave Jones

First of all David the vote was never about who supported the findings in the report and who didn’t, nor to my knowledge is anyone blocking it, I was away at the time and my Deputy attended the PC meeting, as I understand it from him and other Ministers the conversation was about where this report fitted in with many of the other work streams and current changes that are being discussed and soon to be implemented following the Robinson report, the Shepley report, Tribal Helms recommendations plus the revamped government business plan. The hysterical outpourings of some about the need to move to an executive system of government on the strength of this, is what is turning many Deputies off, if you want to have a grown up discussion about joined up government then fine, that is a discussion that has been going on for some considerable time in all departments. And we have made significant improvements in many areas, the corporate Housing programme being one, several departments are working together to deliver long term plans for future care for the elderly and round table meetings with Treasury, HSSD, Social Security, Housing and planning are common place. Environment and Commerce and Employment with the Land Use planning group looking at future housing and business needs. You are also presupposing that everything in the report is true, and what is all this drivel about becoming ungovernable, that appears to be the situation in the UK at the moment. Our political system has given this island the stability it has enjoyed for decades and none of those who are telling us we simply must change it can hold up a single example of where cabinet or executive government works, or that any of the alternative systems is delivering effective government to its people. It can lead and often does to nepotism and corruption on massive scales when decisions are made by a handful of people behind closed doors. Please don’t talk about Ministerial salaries, mine includes all our expenses which if you talk to any of the Deputies they will tell you that the expense of running an office is considerable and we do not become embroiled in expenses scandals like the country many of our critics hold up as the example to follow. A gravy train it certainly aint. As for excessive salaries and incompetence you only have to look at the banking system for that, in fact it was so bad the taxpayers had to bail them out to the tune of billions, so I would be careful before holding up the private sector as a shining example of efficiency and competence. As for attracting a better calibre of politician to the States, I have to ask where you lot were at the last election? I would also add that the Guernsey Press has successfully deterred many sensible and suitable candidates from entering public office because of its constant attacks on States members as a whole, not everyone has thick enough skin to take on the task, and certainly the families don’t want it.

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25

David

Dave Jones
So why the refusal of the Policy Council to publicise the votes so that we know who was in favour of the WAO report and who was not ? If the position is as you say, then why can’t the voting be published ?
Sorry but you are wrong about why businessmen won’t stand for election. Sure, the Press coverage may not help, but the whole system of government is outdated and ineffective. We have an appalling decision making process in the House, while nobody will convince me that the real decisions are not being made by unaccountable civil servants who the politicians either cannot or will not control.
And to you and Arnald, are you seriously suggesting that the island’s bankers played a part in the global financial collapse ? If so then you are even more detached from reality than I thought.
I look at several members of the Policy Council, as well as at numerous Deputies, and I see many who would be incapable of holding a job outside the States which pays a salary level even close to what the States pays. Sorry, but that’s how it is. I’m certainly not saying that the UK system works much better, but I am saying that Guernsey’s system no longer works in the current era. Maybe its largely because the Civil Service has become all too powerful and is now out of control, but the current system does not work and is not fit for purpose, with Ministers refusing to toe the line on managing their budgets, and there is no system in place to force them to do so. Joined up government ? Yes, in patches. But that’s far from being enough.

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27

Dave Jones

Because David it is not as simple as that, some members might have supported some of the findings but not all of the report, others may not have agreed with any of it, some have commented that parts of the report are already out of date as several recommendations are currently being implemented. This is one of several reports that have been commissioned and the States will look at each of them and decide what measures need to be taken in order to deliver more cost effective government and there isn’t a government in the world who couldn’t improve its delivery of services to its people but I will tell you this we do a hell of a lot better than most. Your reason for business people not standing is a cop out and who says the Guernsey people want a government made up entirely of those from the business community anyway. If our system is so bad then they/you have the opportunity to get elected and change it, not likely, much safer to sit on the sidelines and snipe. We have a democratic decision making process that allows Deputies to make up their own minds on issues and then come to a vote on a consensus decision, It might surprise you to know that by and large the public support those decisions as most of them are about providing additional services to them without making the tax burden unbearable in the process. The real decisions are made in the States not by civil servants, of course policy is drafted and put into a debatable document by civil servants but they have absolutely no control over the way the States votes on any particular issue and they are most certainly not in control at the Housing department, the board gives direction and the staff carry it out. You say our system is outdated and ineffective I do not subscribe to that view at all, if ever there was a system no longer fit for purpose it is the UKs party political system and its woefully corrupt parliament. As for States deputies pay you are not comparing like with like, an elected deputy is on call seven days a week and often works late into the evening, there are several evening meetings and presentations in the course of a month not to mention lunchtime meetings and we try and catch up with our parish work at the weekends, visiting parishioners or answering e-mails and letters, if your interested the pay works out at less than £10 per hour, also to my knowledge all the deputies had jobs when they were elected, I was self employed and earned a very good living before I joined the States. As for budgets the Housing department gave 10 million back to the centre a short time ago so please at least get your facts right.

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29

David

Cliff
No, I’m not remotely involved in sub-prime, thank goodness.

Dave Jones
So you tell me why this current crop of elected deputies is being continually slated as the worst ever, why experienced businessmen are completely put off by a system which seems to require every member of the House, no matter how ignorant they are of the subject matter to have their say, how major decisions get debated ad nauseum, voted on and then the decisions get overturned soon after, how senior politicians seem to see nothing wrong with standards of behaviour which should see them resigning without clinging on, how some politicians don’t seem to understand the concepts of conflicts of interest, how some deputy ministers seem to take great pleasure I’m plunging the knife into the backs of their department’s minister (not quite the definition of “deputy” that I can relate to), how some department members can vote one way at department committee meetings and then vote differently in the House, completely against their department, how some ministers foolishly comment to the media and then admit that they havent even read the report on which they commented, how senior civil servants can make blunder after blunder regarding employment law matters yet are never made accountable for wasting taxpayers’ money in the process. Need I go on?

Pretty impressive huh ? No self-respecting businessman would last 5 minutes in that environment and that’s why they won’t stand. Its why the likes of Stuart Falla and Charles Parkinson decide not to stand for re-election, and who can blame them?

The system is knackered, we have 4 or 5 Ministers who are totally out of their depth and they are amongst the best of a very poor bunch. I’m not going to name names but nothing is going to change until we get island wide voting and reduce the number of elected deputies by at least a third. The extra third are deadwood who achieve little and clog the system. I don’t expect turkeys to vote for Xmas but Guernsey’s current system of government and the very poor level of candidates prepared to stand are incapable of leading us over the next decade when, make no mistake, we are facing huge challenges. Probably 10 to 15 of our elected deputies have the skills, intellect and experience to govern the island. What a truly sad indictment, and I don’t see many islanders claiming that the current crop of deputies is any better than what I am stating. I don’t think that top many would win a vote of confidence at this stage of the electoral term.

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31

Matt Fallaize

David,

Are you not a little too eager to categorise other people according to whether you personally regard them as worthy or unworthy of being in politics?

You consistently imply that Guernsey’s system of government precludes certain classes of people from seeking election. But your analysis is demonstrably flawed. One could produce a very long list of people elected to serve the States, including many that served several terms, whose backgrounds variously included extensive business interests or senior jobs in the public sector, such as education, medicine and the civil service, or who were self-made entrepreneurs.

It is an inevitable consequence of democracy, especially in small communities, that governments will comprise an eclectic mix of individuals whose only shared achievement is having obtained a sufficient number of votes to be elected.

You seem to imply that Guernsey should be governed predominantly by one class of people, whom you refer to as ‘businessmen’ without really defining exactly what you mean by that vague term. May I ask whether it has occurred to you that the vast majority of people in Guernsey might prefer the eclectic government of a democracy than the homogenous government of an oligarchy?

You think that island wide voting and significantly cutting the number of States members would produce more politicians you might regard as capable. But how can you be sure that in a smaller States elected island wide, the electorate would not return an even greater proportion of candidates from classes/backgrounds you deem unfit for politics? You should be careful what you wish for: an analysis of all the election results since the 1948 Reform Law actually tends to suggest that the outcome would be the exact opposite of what you intend.

I doubt there has ever been a single person entirely satisfied with the membership of the States. It is another inevitable feature of democracy that governments will consist of certain people whose views do not accord with our own. But constructing a system of government on the basis of trying to manipulate the predominant class/background of its members, which is basically what you are proposing, would be dangerous and antithetical to democracy and good government.

Some people may be frustrated that they cannot personally determine the entire composition of our government. But that is precisely one of the purposes of democracy in the first place: it militates against too much power being concentrated in the hands of too few interests.

Incidentally, in one of your earlier posts, you bemoan deputies having their say “no matter how ignorant they are of the subject matter”. Your comment implies that being elected by the public should not be enough to have some influence on the decision-making process. But I am interested in what additional test you would wish to introduce before allowing deputies to have their say. Is your perception of “ignorance” not entirely subjective? Beyond a general election, what criteria, and set by whom, do you have in mind to establish individually each member’s ignorance or otherwise?

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33

David

Dave Jones and Matt
Actually I had you both down as being of the right calibre to govern this island. My criticism was not aimed at either of you so hopefully that’s cleared that up.

Of course I don’t expect all local politicians to come from a business background. That comment was made in retort to frequent comments that not enough business people are prepared to stand. I’m merely staying why that is. A cross-section is vital, as are candidates with integrity, intelligence and common sense. Unfortunately far too many of the current House fail at least one of those tests.

Its not that I don’t have the courage to stand. Its simply that I am honest enough to know that I wouldn’t last 5 minutes before quitting through frustration. I am a “doer” who makes things happen, and would never put myself in an environment where that characteristic would be stifled. I would not be doing anybody any favours by standing with that in mind. I also couldn’t afford to stand financially. Maybe in 10 years time, but impossible now.

I stand by my criticism of the current House. Dave – when you first stood it probably was the worst ever House that we had had until then. I’m saying that its got worse since then. I know that I am far from alone in holding this view. Get rid of the deadwood and the island may well move forward. If the view is that all is rosy with this current House then I’m afraid that is part of the problem.

It is true in any democracy that we get the government that we deserve. Without islnd wide voting that is only partly true, but we can only elect from those prepared to stand and the thought of standing has never looked less attractive than it does today.

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35

Stephen John

Dave Jones

I notice in your list of deputies with business experience (post 12.46 on 21st) that you omit the fragrant Carla and Bernard.

I would have left them out as well, despite them being on the Policy Council!!!!

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37

bcb

Stephen John
I think you`ll find it was Bernies Father who was the bueiness man, He just tagged along so to speak.

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