‘We must not be a haven for abusers’
Friday 11th September 2009, 2:29PM BST.
CONVICTED paedophiles, sex offenders and people who have harmed youngsters will be among those barred from working with children and vulnerable adults under Home Department proposals.
A new scheme would outlaw inappropriate people from even applying for such a job, if the States gives the go-ahead.
The proposals match a vetting and barring scheme being introduced across the UK on 12 October.
If not accepted, Home fears the island could become a ‘haven’ for potential abusers seeking to escape the restrictions in the UK.
The UK scheme was created in response to the Soham murders of Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells by school caretaker Ian Huntley in 2002, and the subsequent Bichard Inquiry into child protection.
Home’s Billet report said Guernsey’s scheme would provide an integrated and updated system.
Existing staff who fail to gain approval would be removed from their jobs.
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Quite right. The last thing we want is Huntley running the flumes at Beau Séjour.
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Why has it taken so long for something like this to come about! Its disgraceful in this modern day and age that people can still work with the young and vunerable and without these proposed checks already in place-2002 was a long time ago, does it really take that long to draft and implement new legislation!!!!
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Never a frown with Golden Brown.
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Given the already restrictive housing and employment conditions in Guernsey I hardly think it’ll be a place of exodus for the dross from the UK. They’ll all be off to Thailand if they are going anywhere.
However, whether this is a good idea or not depends on where you draw the line and whether that line is clear. Listening to Radio 4 this morning it was clear that no one really knows the bounds of their system. Does a possession of Cannabis a decade ago count against you now or not? Should it count against you?
Will good people be put off volunteering to run the Scout troop whilst some of the Scouts themselves live in fear of father coming into their bedroom? For it is in the home where the vast majority of abuse takes place…..
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Let’s hope they are going to check out all those little guys in priest suits as well…why leave it to the Church,,,,they would only cover up, as always.
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Good – one danger however the idiot CRB in the UK dont discriminate between paedophiles and say children convicted of having underaged sex.
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The biggest majority of people who are convicted of child sex abuse never had a conviction for any offence until they have been caught.The check on people should still be in place though just in case they do attempt to gain employment in the first place. The punishment for anyone who does get caught should be very severe to serve as a deterent. Rope and tree come to my mind!
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Andy – an unfortunate comment given that the news is full of the story of a 12 year old boy pleading guilty to raping a 9 year old boy. I think you will find that in the rare cases where children are convicted of having underage sex it doesn’t related to a couple of 15 year olds having a fumble, but far more disturbing crimes. Whatever the age of the perpetrator, people should be protected from those who carry out such acts.
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Don’t forget landlords need vetting too.
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Belinda
I did say convicted of underage sex not rape; to give another example a gentleman pinched a womans bottom at a christmas party and now he appears on it. All im saying is that it should be a Paedophile register. Feel free however to hang draw and quarter them if convicted.
Andy
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Huntley got access to the two children he murdered through his partner at the time.
The vetting system proposed will not check workers’ or volunteers’ partners, so Huntley’s access to those children would still have been possible under the new system.
Most sexual abuse of children happens within the family, most commonly by a relative or step-parent. The vetting system will not have any role in stopping this kind of abuse. That is why so many health and social care professionals, as well as voluntary groups, are sceptical about the proposed system.
So how about a compromise? Try the system for a year. If the government cannot demonstrate that it a) reduces the incidence of child abuse, and b) does not deter volunteers from helping out with sports clubs and other groups, then repeal it.
I fear that the proposal bears all the hallmarks of “we must be seen to do something” without good evidence that it will work.
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James
I may not be right here, but I seem to remember that Huntley was in fact the caretaker at the school at the time? Carr his partner at the time was convicted of perverting the course of justice as she provided a false alibi – she had no part in the actual murdering of the victims.
I do think that it is going a bit far to expect mums who do the school run to conform but I would much rather see things go too far then not far enough.
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Golden Brown, do we think the Baroness of Vulgaria in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang took the separation of adults and children too far?
I’m not trying to be facetious here just questioning how much of a rift needs be put in place of normal human interaction between adults and kids given the accepted fact that absolutely the vast majority of abuse takes place in the home?
Actually might we not even force ourselves into a false sense of security?
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Doug
I wouldn’t know as I have never seen Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, but I take on board your point about most abuse being in the home. And yes I guess that the tighter controls can allow people to drop their guard. Personally I feel that there needs to be more attention paid to spotting the signs of abuse too and more support offered to those in the best position to spot it, such as teachers, youth club leaders etc.
Its really quite sickening to think that we have to take any measures at all, I guess we all wish for a xanadu where we can live in peace knowing that it doesnt even exist, sadly this is not the case.
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In reply to Golden Brown:
True, Huntley had a job as a caretaker at Soham Village College – but this is a secondary school.
Maxine Carr, his partner, worked as a teaching assistant at the local primary school where the murder victims were pupils.
Under the new proposed system, Huntley would have been banned from working with children. But Maxine Carr would not.
So Huntley would still have had access to them – he convinced them to come into his house because he told them that Carr was inside.
So I’m afraid the proposed system would probably not have prevented the Soham murders, and it is disingenuous of politicians to claim that the system would stop abuse like this (let alone infer that it would stop abuse more generally, which as I said mostly occurs within the informal family network).
If we’d like a truly effective system, how about one that ensures that anyone who lives with a child must have all their significant relationships checked? So for example every mother would have to declare every friend, boyfriend, and family member they were in contact with, and police would then check these people.
I can already hear the shouts of protest… It’ll never happen. So child abusers will carry on doing what they’re doing now – targeting vulnerable single parents.
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Thanks James – I stand corrected. There will never be a fool proof way of protecting everyone all of the time – but if the new measures stop even 1 child from becoming a victim then I would say it is worth it. You cant put a cost of time or resources on protecting the innocent.
Personally, Id like to introduce some new punishment for all who are convicted to act as a deterent to others, it would involve certain appendages being removed with a blunt rusty razor and being cemented into another certain area on their body! But of course the human right brigade would never allow that as it seems the human rights of convicts tend to come before those of their victims!
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I do love the term ‘Human Rights Brigade’ – so smacks of disdain for those who champion the rights of humanity. Of course victims are human and the accused in the dock is human and so is the convict in the prison. All are human and all should have rights. It is only some imbalance in the application of those rights that we should object to.
However, instead of cutting off bits and bobs and sticking them where the sun don’t shine possible more attention needs to be paid to the treatment and rehabilitation of sex offenders. Not exactly popular with the Daily Mail I’m sure but I recently watched a broadcast about a well established programme in the US from which the vast majority of offenders who emerge back into society never are convicted of further offences. A complete reversal of what is achieved by HM Prison services stretched resources. Surely this makes children safer?
As Golden Brown says, you can’t put a cost on time and resources protecting the innocent…..
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Doug White
The derogatory term ‘Human Rights Brigade’ is a self inflicted put down caused by lawyers who stretch the original reason for introducing Human Rights to ridiculous limits
Joe de Garis has had a second letter published in the press complaining about his treatment in the Guernsey prison
All I can say to him is ‘There’s a boat in the morning’
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With our lacklustre immigration policies with apparent open borders is it a question of closing the stable door after the horse is miles away galloping into the sunset…….
Remember, our system here in Guernsey fails all children. It’s what we don’t here about that is the big problem which means who is getting away with these sickening crimes. Sadly, all to common in Guernsey, it is not what you know but who you know and this gives sanctuary to many.
Before any register is put in place the legislation needs to address all issues of child abuse ensuring that the main emphasis is on protecting the child at all times with a strong deterrent to any male or female local or not that Guernsey has shut the door on child abusers once and for all with no soft options. It seems that these people can walk the streets over here and continue with their abuse and are treated like someone with a drink problem. Child Abuse is not just a working class decease it goes from the very top (the very very powerful here in Guernsey) to the very bottom of society.
Equally, it is imperative that the legislation protects the innocent parties and addresses those who for whatever reason make false accusations of child abuse against their partner, ex-partner, family member or even neighbour. Don’t be fooled and think that Guernsey does not have people who take great joy about falsely accusing others of child abuse, it is a powerful accusation and as the right impact on the innocent party with no consideration for the child, with nine out of ten accusers making false allegation of child abuse being a women. Using a child to support a false allegation is child abuse in it self making the child a victim even though no abuse was carried out.
Child abuse is the strongest accusation one can be accused of and therefore any legislation should also include severe deterrents for those false accusers ensuring that the innocent party is completely exonerated.
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Hmmm Bank Charges – are you really blaming Guernsey’s famous “open borders” for Guernsey’s child abuse ‘problem’?
Are the people making use of these “open borders” known to the authorities and so are able to do unspeakables with impunity?
Anyone comes near my chicks and I’ll peck yer eyes out, you dirty foreigners with important connections.
Don’t we have some sort of porn magnate living here? Time for the pitchforks….
March, anyone?
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JL SEAGULL, of course there are those who come into the island and abuse children and of course we have our very home grown abusers also. I suspect by ur post in ur little world all is perfect……ooppps, you’ve dropped ur rose tinted glasses…….and why have a march????
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