‘Cheaper, greener’ steaming waste plant may be too late
Thursday 17th September 2009, 11:30AM BST.
Rodney Brouard promotes the benefits of his proposed joint venture waste plant at last night’s meeting. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 0843231)
ALTERNATIVE incinerator plans face an uphill struggle, according to one deputy.
Housing minister Dave Jones was among those invited to a presentation by anti-incinerator campaigner Rodney Brouard at St Sampson’s High School last night.
It outlined alternative proposals to the £93.5m. Suez Environnement incinerator which, despite a protest march by several hundred islanders, got the Assembly’s go-ahead in July.
The Stan Brouard Group has teamed up with the bio-products division of the Baltic Development Group, which manufactures Vantage waste processing facilities.
The pair would establish a new Guernsey company for the joint venture.
Deputy Jones was among those who tried to delay the decision to go with Suez.
‘I’m disappointed that this company was not there at the tender stage,’ he said.
One of his major concerns was cost.
‘I have had my suspicions for a long time that this is very expensive. We have never really looked properly into where these are coming from,’ said Deputy Jones.
He said a demonstration to show how the Vantage plant would work would make a significant difference.
Mr Brouard asked deputies to take a requete to the States to overturn the Suez decision.
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Again, the question is raised..just who does the States of Guernsey represent? Because it certainly is not the people. And its not as if there aren’t enough voices to be heard.
The parasitic bureaucrats have already crippled one of my businesses, and have done plenty of damage to its successor in their quest for more money to waste (sic).
Rodney is a respected and successful businessman, and I don’t count too many of his ilk in our present States.
Just for once…
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What a load of bluster!
There is not a single plant of the one described and proposed in operation anywhere in the world!
Why should Guernsey be the test bed?
It just shows how a public storm can be whipped-up if individuals want to “invest” their own money in publicity.
This system is certainly not ready.
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Chris I hear what you say, However the States has made its decision on the waste management system it prefers and that is incineration. My attempt to get a rethink on the Suez proposals was heavily defeated and I do not believe taking this new concept by Stan and his partners back to the States would achieve a different outcome. If there had only been a couple of votes in it I would definitely been prepared to make a further attempt at getting the States to see sense, one thing that did shock me last night was when one of the directors of the company giving the presentation told the audience that having just returned from Jamaica he was amazed to find that our incinerator was more expensive than a plant in Jamaica that dealt with one and a half million tons of household refuse. Ours is 45,000 to 70,000 tons. Now I would have to check the accuracy of that statement but I certainly believe we are paying well over the odds for this Suez plant.
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Roy
as per my comment on the other thread
Are the phillipines not the first users of this plant??? (coming on-line in late 2009) ergo the test bed.
Also when you take into account 20M vs 260M, I dont think its too much of a gamble to be one of the first users, methinks there is more at stake than mere pride here given the aggressive stance taken by some of you.
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having seen the presentation on this new system of recycling, I think this is what the Recycling Group was looking for. Its clean, non polluting, and best of all, NO INCINERATION. Every Deputy should have been at this presentation to see what 21st century technology is all about. If the States go ahead with the Suez plant, it shows how much they are out of touch with the modern world. At an affordable price, (20m), and reduced prices at the gate, surely this must be given serious thought. With saving of 120m over 25 years, it would mean we don’t give our children a massive debt. Just think for a moment, clean air, clean soil, and no muck going into the Hougette Reservoir. Surely this must be a win, win project for Guernsey. If the States throw this idea out without investigation like it has done with all the other submissions, I would have to agree with ‘The Man’, that there is more at stake than recycling.
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The States have back-tracked in the past and there is no reason why they should not change their minds on this issue in light of more cost effective and environmentally friendly alternatives. The difference in cost appears to be astounding.
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I think this is a much better way to get rid of waste, much cheaper and less environmental affects. If the states still vote for incineration, maybe they’re the ones which need incinerating!
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Will we have to buy in a new system to deal with the contamination left behind in 25 years? Maybe one a bit like van Steenis is suggesting?
So why not get it now?
I was speaking to the other gulls around Mont Cuet and they threatened to leave and take their families with them if land fill was stopped. They said they would be sickened by the obvious socialisation of waste and that Guernsey would be radically shifting towards a Stalinist vision. Everyone knows that Communists invented incineration in 1962 as a means of burning US dollar bills.
Previously the English had used incineration to purify their bloodlines.
Roy Bisson is obviously a Stalinist Nazi, and Flouquet a Maoist Pol-Pottist. The States are run by the EUSSR.
That’s what the gulls around the tip were saying. Don’t forget that they predicted the financial crash by analysing our outflow in great detail.
Oh and John Gollop is Micky Gorbachev. He keeps his perestroika in a plastic bag.
Luckily I have evolved beyond satire and I take the gulls at entirely face value.
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Roy
You seem quite happy to come on here with big sweeping statements however you then appear to be avoiding questions that have been asked of you.
May I remind you what you said in your election manifesto
“In future, I believe that the States will be much better understood and make better decisions if it undertakes more consultation with islanders.”
This appears to be the exact opposite of what you are doing.
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I support Mr Brouard with his endevours,it is so logical,that I should say that even the States would be able to understand it.Its worth trying out at the price quoted,as if it is found to be lacking in any small way,improvements are coming on stream all the time.The difference between 20 million & a min of 93 mill.Come the next election those in the States who are so blinkered as to not to be able to THINK are no use to us, and WE KNOW who they are.
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JL Seagull – “Stalinist Nazi”? I hardly think so buddy.
The Man – You forget that my manifesto did not work and I was not elected. I do agree that the States does not consult anywhere near enough.
What Rodney has done is exactly what I would have hoped might have come out in the tendering process, but did not. Someone to take over the whole operation and the responsibility for ALL of the waste, at a low gate price. I just hope he knows what he is doing. There does not appear to be anyone with appropriate experience on his team and the system has not been put together anywhere else in the world.
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I understood from the Thursday evening meeting that the Vantage proposal won’t cost us anything (they have got RBC to agree to lend them the money). All we have to do is give them the site for 20 – 25 years, plus all our waste (gate fees much lower than Suez, parishes take note), and let them get going.
At the evening meeting on Thursday, they offered to bring over their Bournemouth plant (it is quite mobile) to demonstrate it.
It’s relatively low-tech. Our unwanted stuff is their raw material – they make a strong wood-substitute end product, with a ready market, and there will be no chimmney or poisonous residue. They only need a small area to operate in. If we have a suitable break clause in the agreement, in the event that the system doesn’t work, we can send them home, and they will take their kit with them (unlike Suez). By then technology will have moved yet further, and the incinerator idea will seem like a bad and joke – at our expense.
It’s a no-brainer. The world’s eyes are not on Guernsey, and Suez are quite commercial enought to know that nothing is sure until it’s signed: win some, lose some. Don’t feel sorry for them. Their product is not suitable for small communities, we should not let ourselves be bullied.
I’d rather pensions were maintained for the next 25 years than have an incinerator. There are choices to be made, we can’t have all the sweeties in the shop.
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Sorry Roy, I forgot that little fact ;)
As I’ve said, the Phillipines will be the Guinea pigs for Vantage so hopefully teething problems will be ironed out over there.
I honestly beleive that this is the perfect solution.
Re Rodneys team, the American chap is a very intelligent person who seems to know this subject inside out and I honestly dont think they would be pitching this if they couldnt do it.
Rodney Brouard is too intelligent to get involved in a project this big with people that dont have the capability, surely you must agree with that.
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I was being stupid Roy Bisson. I’m not really a seagull you know. Too much legal high, you can’t move for it over here.
Does anyone know the stipulations of the tender? Company size, that sort of thing…
What we really need is a company that can turn rubbish into specs or vitamins.
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I really do hope that the Suez solution is canned. I also hope at the first opportunity that the States members responsible for this idea getting this far get canned too.
Roll on sensible, sustainable and viable alternatives for dealing with waste.
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Reasons why this must be considered by States
- Proposal will save the Guernsey population £250m over its life
- No financial risk over life of plant for repairs (all risk falls on Guernsey after 2 years with Suez)
- £95 cheaper gate fee – will reduce cost to business and residents
- No toxic air pollution, no residue bottom or fly ash
- No unsightly chimney
- Will be only 9m high rather than 15 stories high Suez plant
- Will create an end product which can be exported – this will have effect of reducing incoming freight costs again reducing cost of doing business in Guernsey
- Uses existing proven technology
- Incinerators and the polution they produce are at risk of increasing regulation due to concerns over global warming and health. The risk is that the States spends an initial £90m on a plant which three years later they need to shut or spend millions to alter. This alternative will eliminate this risk.
- Could be up and running on Island as a demonstration to prove that it will work in months (Suez plant will not be up and running for several years).
Business realise poor decisions which are made and quickly reconsider them or go bust. Contracts are constantly being canceled and renegotiated. The States as a political body needs to do likewise and realise the folly of its preliminary decision.
I respect Dave Jones’s initial hesitation but it must be realised that the States made its decision under enormous duress having been told there was no other option. Clearly this was a lie.
Daniel de Lisle ACA, BSc(Econ)
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Surely no one needs reminding that if you are offered a deal that seems just too good to be true there is a pretty good chance that it isn’t true.
Most people who suffer loss from the “too good to be true” deals do so because they’re prepared to go into it with far less thought than they would normally give to spending their money. Nearly ten years of professional investigation have gone into the incinerator solution but just a few weeks of, sometimes, purely amateur inquiry into the get rich quick solutions.
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Ted
And do you think R Brouard is that naive to fall for that one? He is a very good business man and i have far more confidence in him than the likes of Flouquet or Ogier to see whats a good deal. The only get rich quick here is suez and some with self interest in this plant.
How do you know that the deal sounds too good to be true anyway? maybe it`s the price it is because thats what the costings come out at? plus the suez plant could be far more expensive than it should be?
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Exactly Ted, the incineration scheme is already 10 years out of date!
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