EU threatens millions in tax and 2,500 jobs
Friday 9th October 2009, 2:30PM BST.
GUERNSEY’S fund industry could be destroyed by EU directives that are in the pipeline, experts warn.
Lawyers and accountants have spelled out the island’s precarious position, with up to 2,500 local fund industry jobs and tens of millions in tax revenue at risk.
‘We are facing a barrage of regulation across all sectors – it will affect banks, fund administrators, funds,’ said Collas Day partner Sean Cheong.
And a senior associate at the law firm, Paul Wilkes, told a 120-strong audience of finance professionals: ‘If it goes through in its current form, the AIFM directive could almost destroy the fund industry.’
Horace Camp, of the Guernsey Investment Funds Association, endorsed what was said at the meeting: ‘We have 2,500 people who work in the fund industry here.
‘Now assume those 2,500 people pay, say, just £4,000 tax per year. That alone would be £10m. per year.’
Mr Wilkes (pictured) said that the island must be prepared, but added that he did not believe the directive would be passed as drafted.
‘Changes are happening now – it is inevitable and we need to make sure our interests are protected.’
The Alternative Investment Fund Managers directive intends to provide a regulatory framework for hedge funds, private equity firms and other alternative investment vehicles.
It stems from concerns over the regulatory and supervisory frameworks of EU financial markets after the crisis and primarily the supervision of investment activities.
Mr Wilkes said the island had one powerful ally.
‘Offshore centres will be affected, but so will America, and Europe would not be so silly as to isolate America in that way.’
- To read Guernsey Press stories in full click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
Island Life
All about Guernsey
Ambassador of the Year 2011
History & Heritage
Visitor Information
Guernsey's government
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
Useful Links
…what’s that I can hear, a distant but distinctive noise….ah yes, it’s all the chickens coming home for a nice long roost.
Seems to me that the good ol’ finance industry that runs our dear island, and it’s colleagues that have been busily filling their pockets at the rest of the world’s expense until we noticed, as it were, by which point we were on the verge of a global economic meltdown, have well and truly been hung by their own petard.
If it wasn’t for the dirty dealings of the aforementioned industry, perhaps the EU wouldn’t be so keen to push through all these rules and regulations, but bearing in mind the appalling, dishonest behavior of the aforementioned ‘illustrious’ industry that has single handedly brought the world to it’s knees, can we really blame them?!
What a shame that our own local Government has also put it’s own wallet before the rest of the world’s (and still refuses to date), despite the recent economic disaster and consequent dragging of the CI’s reputation as a tax haven through the mud, and instead, continues to take the path of least resistance, giving into Finance’s every whim, supplicating and simpering at the feet of the only industry they care about, that not so long ago was threatening to leave if it didn’t get it’s own way (with the same tired old implication that the island would thus be ruined).
Well, newsflash, 0-10 may have stayed your departure, but if I were you, guys, I’d be dusting off your suitcases. The EU is coming, and unlike our local authorities, it does not give one whit for your posturing and threats.
Report abuse
Luckily this is one time when Government and Industry are working together to face this problem head on. It is vital we setup our Brussels office and start lobbying now. For balance it is worth noting that we can carry on pretty much as we are now until at least 2015 possibly later. In the meantime I understand people are working to ensure that following the redrafting of the directive we fully expect to achieve the equivalent standards required to market into Europe. This will give us easier access to a huge market and if other jurisdictions are not able to achieve equivalency then a great opportunity will present itself. We have a great deal to do to achieve this by 2015 but it can be done if we all work together.
Report abuse
We are nowhere near the darkest hour within a month Tony Blair will be crowned President of the EU and then we will be assimilated.
Report abuse
Dream on Andy.
If Blair does become president, and if Blair doesn’t get his own way,
he is more likely to declare war. it’s his favourite pastime.
Report abuse
Nightmare springs to mind;if he gets in I honestly believe he will attempt to force us into the EU. He doesnt even need a new Act of Parliament to do so just the UK Regulatory Reform Act he got through whilst he still was in office.
Report abuse
If the EU restricts our way of doing financial business,we, no longer have much to fall back on. Growing & Tourism etc would never be able to maintain our present way of life;we really would become a 3rd world country,with property values falling so low to become almost worthless,medical coverage at about 10 to 15% of what we have now,and you could imagine all the rest that would follow on.I think it is essential we open an office in the EU,it can start off small and expand later if neccesary,if as I hope, it does the job,we can then plan ahead for all the important things we need to make the lives of all of us better;if we do not make the effort,I cannot see a very good future for any of us.
Report abuse
I would like to comment on this article, but do not feel that the Press has given the public enough information about what is being proposed to enable me to do so on an informed basis. Could we have an outline of the proposals as they are now, an explanation of what possible changes are being discussed, and why/how the current and changed versions of the directive will affect the Guernsey fund industry?
All I can say is that I admire the optimism of Horace.Is a group of 27 nations with a combined population of nearly 1 billion people going to take notice of a tiny island with 60,000 plus people and a tiny economy (by comparison)? Will they actually care enough to want to bother to speak to the staff in our proposed expensive office in Brussels? The island also needs to know what the annual running costs of this proposed office would be – I am guessing that £200k is only the set up cost?
Report abuse
Horace’s view represents the concensus amongst those in the know. The EU proposals are still vague and it is highly likely that we will be “equivalent” when the full details finally emerge, and if we are not already then we are unlikely to need to make major changes in order to become equivalent.
Then, the directive will actually be a positive since our services will have the stamp of EU approval.
Report abuse
Correction – the EU has only half a billion population. Apologies.
And another thought – even though the directive may not be planned to come in to effect until 2015, are the big players going to hang on until the last moment, or will they be planning to move before then?
I think the latter is more likely for any soundly managed business, so to say that we have until 2015 to carry on as normal is probably a little hopeful?
Report abuse
Scarlett, much as you may detest the finance industry it has been this island’s primary source of revenue and jobs for the past thirty years. It may give you satisfaction to see it brought down by external forces, but I bet you wouldn’t be quite so pleased if the most of the island’s workforce found themselves on the dole and our tax revenues had dried up.
You seem to forget that without the finance industry we would not have the revenue to pay for our healthcare, schools, infrastructure and welfare.
Report abuse
Ahh, CD, the old ‘you don’t know what you’re talking about, the island would fall apart without the finance industry’ argument has to be trotted out at some point…I’ve lost count of the many times I’ve heard that one!
There is a large percentage of the local population who would be glad to see the back of the finance industry and would be willing to take the consequences in the short term for benefits in the long term, so please, do not presume to ‘know’ how we feel or to assume that we are uninformed, as it makes your comments look narrow minded, not ours.
Yes, CD, the island would be different, perhaps unattractive to those for whom money, money and more money is the most important thing in life. But LIFE about change, and it does not necessarily mean it would change for the worse, except perhaps for those who like living here because it’s a capitalist paradise where the independently wealthy hide their money, settle here and drive up the economy, regardless of what this does to the average islanders, who have to live their lives striving for more money and better paid positions in the same industry that has them drowning in credit just to exist.
Our Government only cares about the industry that brings in the most money, and a combination of their complete lack of interest in seriously investigating any other source of revenue and the past 30 years of living high on the proverbial hog has made many forget what real life is like.
Indeed, much of the islands youth have never learnt skills in anything more rewarding or fulfilling than the art of making the rich richer and how to get ahead just so they can keep up. They would have to learn to think differently and retrain and we would all have to reconsider the way we live our lives. Would it be worse? The Government and finance industry would have us believe that, but then, they have a rather personal interest in keeping the current situation going, don’t they?!
Amazingly, large swathes of the rest of the world that exists beyond Cobo do NOT depend on banking as their main source of income and survive quite successfully. Guernsey would do the same if it had to and it had a Government that cared more about the island than it does it’s wallet.
Report abuse
Scarlett – I certainly recognise that your views are held by a fair number of people, and are valid views (just as any statement of opinion).
I would only say that whilst it is true that the majority of the world can survive without the finance industry dominating their economy, the geographical limitations of this island mean that it is the only feasible way to provide a decent level of GDP, unless we suddenly strike oil. We have no manufacturing base, not because we wasted it but because of the nature and size of the island. We once had growing but even if we ploughed over the land and re-built the glass houses it would not sustain a fraction of the population that we have. The island could go one of two ways – become a paradise for subsistence existence (certainly appealing in some ways, but most islanders would need to leave) or become an exclusive retirement home for the wealthy, since no-one else would be able to afford to live here with no income or public services. Maybe those are extreme examples, but I really cannot see how an island without the finance industry would be better for the majority of the population. You don’t like capitalism and that is your prerogative, but most people just want to provide well for their families and so they would be forced to leave if the GDP of this island fell off a cliff.
That said, I do agree that diversification is important in order to provide wider opportunities for people growing up here and to provide a more balanced community.
Report abuse
Scarlett, perhaps you could suggest how the island would cope without the finance industry? And perhaps how life would improve for the better with the States having virtually no income to play with. Because if the finance industry left, unemployment would be huge, thus reducing the income tax take (and increasing the social security bill). Lets face it, it’s not just people directly employed by the finance industry that would lose their jobs but all of the other industries that rely on it too.
Report abuse
I can’t believe that you finance folk are happy with this complete lack of integrity we advertise to the world. Another massive evasion case and no one bats an eyelid.
How many more?
Enough for an ‘exodus’ when the conditions are right?
Come on, we all like a bit of cash, but defending this? You may as well sell drugs or guns or filth.
Again and again you say it. OK, so let’s assume none of you have any intelligence to do a non criminal accessory dependent job and you all went off in a huff. What about the rich folk that the Guernsey people attract with their natural bonhomie and tax perks? Will they encastle themselves in their croquet sheds? Or will these people, the doyens of entrepreneurial flair and sophisticated investments, simply not ACTUALLY BE REAL and that they could be just freeloading sociopaths who care only for a spot of kayaking and muppet-u-liking?
What about being an actively useful member of the world, Guernsey, ever heard of that, hmm? Come PE people, show me your successes. Tell us of your benefit. Bankers, spew forth your benevolent actions and needed services. Show us the extents of your transparency and grown-up particpation in global trade.
We rely on crooks, shysters and mentalists for our ‘standard of living’. Sheer bloody class, we are. Why shouldn’t folk be disillusioned with the lies?
What’s worse is that the EU regs won’t have any teeth AND YOU KNOW IT, so all this hype is to extort more cash out of the poor so you can get more bonus.
Really, why be proud?
Report abuse
TL
We don’t need to strike oil. We already have it. Its called tidal power and we have the potential to be exporting it 25 miles away to France and thus diversifying our economy. Imagine that – we have something that the EU wants and needs. Unlike the Middle East whose oil reserves are down to their last 300 years or so, as long as the moon stays up we have some of the best tidal energy waters in the world, just 25 miles away from a major land mass.
The capital costs of the infrastructure required would be huge, so there is a deal surely to be done with the EU to fund the capital costs to acquire the exported energy and we get a substantial ongoing royalty. We also get a land-based support services industry to provide new and different jobs.
More importantly, we go to the EU negotiating table with something in it for them, and with a chance of negotiating in our favour certain issues which would help the finance industry. That may well end up reduced or modified, but would be more robust and we could greater accessibility to EU markets than at present, ie for our funds industry.
This isn’t speculative. We should be doing it NOW. Failure to do so would be like the Arabs discovering oil 40 years ago and placing it in the “too difficult” box.
What are we waiting for ? Its the truly perfect way for our economy to diversify with minimal on-island physical impact. Its also about the only card that we hold which can come remotely close to replicating the effect that the finance industry has had on our economy over the past 30 years.
Report abuse
Scarlett, of course the finance industry isn’t the only revenue earner in Guernsey – but there are very few of us in this island (carpenters, , electricians, builders, restaurant owners, people selling everything from cars to electronic goods etc etc) – who do not benefit directly from the high disposable incomes earned by locals working in finance.
What alternative industries would you suggest we encourage to keep the island’s economy afloat? Tourism won’t work because it costs too much to get here. Agriculture failed because we cannot compete with industrial producers in Holland and elsewhere. Manufacturing won’t work because of shipping costs and cheap labour in places like Asia.
We somehow need to earn enough to maintian the infrastructure for a population of 60,000 (local) people living on a tiny rock. I just don’t see an alternative to the finance industry in the long term.
Report abuse
oh dear Greg, same tired arguments, same lack of thought and imagination applied to an alternative viewpoint, because, as I understand and am fully aware of, life is simply easier with finance here to constantly pay the tab and us not having to think outside the box or make any effort.
Obviously, in the real world, the finance industry would not just disappear overnight (-!), much of it would move away from the island gradually – and possibly not totally -which is ok, I simply want it to stop being the gigantic, all powerful tail that constantly wags our Government dog.
Whether I – we – think that finance is the best thing that ever happened to the CI’s or not will be pretty irrelevant when the powers that be from outside the island start to insist (as this feature highlights) that they want us to pay more than lip service to their new regulations, and our ding ding I’m on the bus attitude is becoming increasingly unacceptable to the global community.
Our future will be, to a large degree determined by that, like it or not, and the sooner our Government wakes up and realises that diversification is essential to this island’s survival, the better off we’ll be….
that much, I can predict without the aide of a crystal ball.
Report abuse
greg
the fact is that one day we may have to cope with a reduced finance industry (we would still be able to deal with south africa, south america, china ,isreal and a host of other non e.u. juristictions)so the folks like you who scaremonger that there will be no finance industry in guernsey are not really telling the truth. When growing and tourism were king there was no talk of the states borrowing money.the transition to other industries if finance was reduced would be painful but not impossible and once there although the standard of living may be lower the Quality of life in guernsey may well be better than now.
Report abuse
tl
any idea what the population of guernsey was in the seventies? very little finance industry then.
only ten thousnd or maybe less than now.i ask you how did we survive before finance? All you finance addicts seem to suggest that all finance will leave and that is simply not true there will always be a finance industry in guernsey it’s a question of how big it will be. why do you say there will be no income? Before the growth in finance the island completed many building projects maybe if we had built up the infrastructure of the island in recent years instead of having five yacht marinas and grandiose court buildings e.t.c. we would be better placed to face the future with a smaller finance industry.
Report abuse
“There is a large percentage of the local population who would be glad to see the back of the finance industry”
That’s one heck of sweeping statement Scarlett and requires challenging. The only people unaffected by a diminished finance sector would be those having a couple of houses in their back pockets, those on a stonking final salary pension and the independently wealthy. Everyone else would be in poo street.
As someone who worked in greenhouses at the back end of growings demise our development opportunities were extremely limited. The careers teachers imagination stretched as far as mechanics, hairdressing and catering.
I do accept that the pace of life has changed and not all of it for the better. But without the injection of tax revenue from an industry that effectively fell into our lap the island would be a poorer place in so many ways.
Report abuse
Im with you greg. Scarlett, lets say we go down your road. People who run shops and work in shops, they would have to close too as people could not afford to shop but for the essentials, tradesmen work would dry up as people could not afford to have work done but for the essentials. Fisherman, why bother fishing, people cant afford to buy your fish at the market. The airport might as well close as people wont come here due to the fact its run down like Blackpool, and people wont be able to leave here as they wont be able to afford the flight! I agree that there is an inbalance and the reliance on finance is great, but lets face it, to lose it all together would be disasterous.
Report abuse
The finance good/bad argument rumbles on….
I think TL makes a really good point. Many people that work in finance aren’t “greedy capitalists” but people who want the best for their families. In order to provide an income for one’s family, the first step is usually to get a job. The finance industry (and other supporting industries) happens to be the source of a large proportion of employment for the island so it’s no wonder many people find themselves working there – in an island the size of Guernsey with it’s current economy there isn’t much choice.
The choice for many (not all I accept) islanders is therefore a simple one – if you want to remain in the island of your birth you work in finance or a supporting industry. For example I am an IT consultant by trade with over 15+ years experience. In my line of work opportunities outside the finance industry or technology companies (who wouldn’t be so plentiful if finance left) are few and far between. So, unless I take a huge career jump and start at the bottom again (with massive pay cut meaning I can’t support my family any longer) or leave the island I am stuck where I am. You may ask why I decided on that career then? The answer is that it used skills I was good at and the opportunity was there – the same as most people when they start a career I would imagine.
I’m not a great fan of the finance industry either however sometimes you’re faced with a simple choice – either work there, leave the island or be unable to support a family. Sometimes other opportunities arise however they are scarce indeed. It’s nice and easy to spout opinions and rhetoric about how bad the finance industry is – for most people however it’s simply the job they have to provide for their nearest and dearest. That doesn’t make them greedy capitalists – just people who live in the real world who realise if you want to provide for your family you need to work!
I certainly agree that diversification is a good idea however as TL points out, due to our geography the options are seriously limited. The island isn’t big enough for large scale industry and cheaper travel means tourism isn’t the cash cow it once once. It would be nice if those who demand the removal of finance would provide some alternatives rather than just spout rhetoric about how much better off we would be without it. Has anyone done any research about other island economies and what they do I wonder?
Report abuse
Greg. It’s not about what I, you or the finance industry wants any more, and judging by today’s headline regarding the EU’s withdrawal of support for our 0-10 strategy, it looks like we’re going to find out the answer to your question pretty soon.
The world has suffered huge economic upheaval because of the Bank’s wheeling and dealing, and we can no longer pretend that the CI’s aren’t part of that world.
If our Government had spent one Nth of it’s money and time on investigating alternative industries for our island to invest in over the past 30 years, we wouldn’t be in the mess that is slowly but very surely heading our way.
Perhaps you should redirect your question to Mr Trott.
Report abuse
As I said last week,all our eggs are in one basket,if finance gets clobbered,what on earth do we fall back on to maintain a reasonable sort of living.The States wouldn`t be able to support the out of workers for very long,as there would be drastically low tax returns from what was left of the workforce.Anyone out there got any good ideas ???
Report abuse
So, Scarlett, you’d be happy to see the back of the finance industry yet you have no suggestions as to how the island would evolve/cope? That’s pretty typical of the anti-finance camp….all fancy ideas but nothing of real substance.
Neil and Paul have both made excellent and realistic posts.
Kevin, i’m not sure where i’ve been scarmongering? I’m confident that the finance industry is here to stay in Guernsey, and that today’s article on the front page of the Press should not be dwelt on too long. There is far too much vagueness about it, plus it seems to ignore the fact that the UK government is likely to change in 2010, so it’s surely impossible to predict that the UK won’t support us?
However, I do agree that reliance upon one industry is foolish. But then again, how many different and vibrant industries can an island of 60,000 people support?
Report abuse
Tidal energy, tidal energy, tidal energy, tidal energy. Its so obvious !!!
Report abuse
David, I agree that there is lots of potential with tidal energy. But the problem with supplying it to France is they already have the only moderately succesful barrage accross the Rance, which (accroding to Wikipedia) produces 0.012% of France’s power requirments. Would we be able to ramp up that figure hugely to make it a viable project?
I believe that Guernsey Electric are conducting research and experiments with tidal power, but I fear that they are having to spend too much of their time fighting the OUR to concentrate some real resources on it. I also presume the local population would be in uproar if electricity bills increased to cover the costs of such R&D.
But it would be a good area for the island to diversify to.
Report abuse
How will tidal energy help provide jobs for our people?
The States has already stated that tidal energy projects should be funded by private not public money. If successful it is true that tax revenue will increase assuming the corporation that runs the tidal business makes a profit. I would imagine that much of the specialist construction work will be carried out by non-Island firms. I imagine as well this is not a high headcount business. Are you hoping that it generates so much tax that we can live off negative tax? That is benefits.
Report abuse
Scarlett, it surprises me to agree with you on something. Yes, the finance industry will be here for many years to come. It will change shape just as it has done in the past. Its final demise, which is many years away, will follow a period when Guernsey markets itself on the impressive infrastructure it has built up including a fantastically trained and talented workforce. Over time, in my view, the value of finance work in Guernsey will decrease and will move more to processing and administration using the services and skills we have. When that time comes Guernsey will then have to start preparing a new generation for a new Guernsey. Just as we are not all expert at knitting, tomato growing or stonework now that those all encompassing industries have died there will be a future generation of Guernsey people who are not finance trained. But that time is a long way away!
Report abuse
David – Tidal energy is definitely worth looking into as an alternative revenue stream for the island. In relation to this debate however my one concern is that, although it may well provide revenue, how many jobs will it provide? Certainly nowhere near enough to cover the demise of finance.
That doesn’t mean we should ignore these ideas however any plan for diversification also needs to include industries that will provide employment to a large group of people, as well as providing a revenue stream. I must confess I’m struggling to think of any that would be suitable for an island economy and don’t require a favourable tax regime to operate – although I’m open to suggestions! Mail order suppliers (e.g. Healthspan, HMV) would be unlikely to stay long if the VAT loophole closed; other industries such as online gaming (which some might argue is at least as morally dubious as finance!) also take advantage of our tax regime and wouldn’t help with mass employment as the majority of the work is done by computer.
We’re in a pickle, there’s no doubt. Without finance, I really struggle to see how the island will sustain its population. There seems to be no escaping the sad reality that the demise of finance, despite all its faults, would be a disaster for the island in the short to medium term at least.
Report abuse
“Fantastically well trained”?
At what? Data input?
So well trained in fact that tax evaders get protection.
Report abuse
Neil, Greg – are you actually registering what’s happening out there in ‘the rest of the world’? I really do wonder.
There are decisions being made out there that will undoubtedly have a huge impact on the CI’s, and because of the narrow minded incompetence of our leaders, we have little to no influence on them and are facing them alone, as even the UK is now having to admit that the tax revenue they lose because of us is somewhat starting to outweigh the positives.
We are facing a truly serious situation not in spite of the finance industry, but BECAUSE of it, yet here we have intelligent and sentient people, clinging onto the notion that if we bury our heads in the sands of denial and hang on for grim death, we can all carry on like nothings happening.
Yes, we may well suffer (perhaps not to the degree of those who lived through the great Irish potato famine as the pro finance camp tend to imply, but realistically, it’s going to be tough financially) but really, who’s ‘fault’ is that, then? Those annoying weirdos in the ‘anti finance camp’ who saw the bubble burst as inevitable (so huge now that it quite possibly will take half the island with it when it blows), the situation unsustainable, and who have always stated that letting finance take over was a bad idea…or those who kept on milking the cash cow, questioning nothing and not seeing beyond the end of their noses?
Our Government doesn’t have any miraculous solutions, and my thoughts that we are all going to have to seriously rethink about how we live our lives (myself included) and start putting our heads together to find proper, down to earth, practical solutions so we can live more realistically would undoubtedly be shot down in flames, but again, I say, it’s not our decision any more.
Report abuse
Scarlett, perhaps you care to explain why the bubble is about to burst? If (and it’s a big if) we have to get rid of zero-10, we could still be in a very strong position, especially if the Isle of Man loses it’s VAT subsidy from the UK.
But please, explain how the bubble is about to burst? I truly am interested.
Report abuse
Scarlett – I think there is a lot of truth in the last paragraph of your 10:36am post. As you point out the decision is out of our hands – it never was in our hands at all, we’ve always been at the mercy of other governments far more powerful.
As I’ve said before, from a personal perspective there is much about offshore finance I don’t like. It doesn’t fill me with joy every day going to an office to effectively help rich people get richer and there are often times when I ponder how much better off we would all be without offshore finance. In some ways it would be sweet release to lose my current job as by the grace of God I am in a position whereby if that happened, or even more dramatically the industry collapsed, I wouldn’t be in serious financial difficulties. I don’t own a property and don’t have any debt to speak of.
However that is a very self-centred perspective as the consequences of a collapse would hit a lot of other people hard – not just greedy capitalists who will just move their operations elsewhere, but normal hard-working Guernsey folk who have sought the best for themselves and their families. These aren’t greedy tax dodgers, they’re just normal people who took the jobs available to them in their homeland, as most people would do – they just happened to be in offshore finance as that’s what was available to them. As Arnald pointed out, many finance workers are not exceptionally well trained, they’re just people who’ve left school and got a job in a bank or trust company – many of whom simply answer telephones and input numbers.
I for one will mourn the demise of finance in Guernsey, if and when it happens – and it will happen inevitably, it’s just a question of when. I won’t mourn the loss of profits, the demise of many unethical practices or the fat-cat directors who have got rich off the backs of the island then moved their operations elsewhere; I’ll mourn for the average Guernseyman who is left with a huge mortgage on a house worth nothing, a family to support and no job to do it with.
Report abuse
go back to sleep Greg, we’ll wake you up when it’s over.
Report abuse
Tidal power again? Export it to France?
A laugh you’re having. They’ve bigger and more suitable tidal resources than we do, bigger everything. They simply do not need the power. If they did, they wouldn’t currently (excuse pun) be exporting it to us over the cable link.
If they want renewables, they’ll simply build them. EDF finances a lot of the Cotentin communities, and there’s much scope for more nuclear, EFW, wind and tidal there, without ever having to consider us.
We couldn’t generate a single watt more cheaply than they could.
If we were a French commune, maybe they’d be interested, but the cost of infrastructure would probably put them off.
As for jobs – well, all the kit required is in Cherbourg. Naval docks, the lot. No need even to set foot here.
Whither our economy in ten years?
Legalise soft drugs and become the nightclubbing capital of Europe. Recording studios, royalties and rock and roll! Offshore artists; authors, software, games and patent rights; designers and architects. Actually hothhouse all of them. A university of creative endeavour. Encourage these people to come here. Build and entertain the world.
Probably wouldn’t work, but at least it’d be a blast, eh?
Report abuse
Scarlett, so as you’re unable to answer my question? Thought so…..
Report abuse
Hi Bob!
What a load of piffle.
Shows how much you know, half of France’s nuclear power stations were shut down for most of the summer and they were buying power in.
What’s more this happens every year.
Combine this with the fact that nuclear power is very expensive anyway and it’s pretty easy to see that selling power to the French is a totally viable idea.
Report abuse
Mrs P, whilst it’s entirely possible that the French would like to buy power from us, generating the power to sell is an entirely different propostition!
Report abuse
…and even if France doesn’t want to buy, they can sell power on to the UK – they do want it, see this question in the house of Lords…
http://staging.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?gid=2007-10-22b.846.1
Report abuse
Nuclear power is not only expensive,its highly dangerous too.And then the problems of the nuclear waste,apparantly theres no problem in many places as they just store it in barrels out side the plant.Here in Germany the Nuclear power stations are being closed down as they come to the end of their useful life,it has been clearly admitted that the number of cases of blood cancer in young children living in an area within 30kms of a nuclear power station is higher.And here no-one wants the waste stored,even 1000metres underground,near them.The newly elected government wants the useful life of these nuclear plants extended,the opposition to this is immense,and it promises to be a very hot few years ahead!So yes,tidal generators would seem to hold a great future,but the cost is enormous.
And the Nuclear experts reckon the next major “accident” in one of these “atomic” plants is now “overdue”!
Report abuse
PaulLeP – I entirely see your point, it will be horribly tough for the average person just trying to get by and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. It’s tragic that our island has come to this.
Greg – bless you, you do make me smile! You come across as an intelligent, informed individual, then ask an uninformed, weirdo anti-finance person like me to explain to you what’s going on in the world-!
Seems plain to me that the reason you can’t see for yourself what the rest of the world can see, and how likely it is that recent events will impact on us, is because you don’t want to.
Denial, as they say, is not just a river in Egypt…!
Report abuse
Hi, Mrs. P!
Shows how much you know – try a trip to Flammanville (that’s in France, by the way, next to Dielette) and take a shufti at the new reactor being built. I’ll even buy you a nice lunch at The Semaphore (if it hasn’t melted) that’s if you promise to be polite.
Meanwhile, here’s a bit of cut and paste from http://www.world-nuclear.org:
“In 2007 French electricity generation was 570 billion kWh gross, and consumption was about 447 billion kWh – 6800 kWh per person. Over the last decade France has exported 60-80 billion kWh net each year and EdF expects exports to continue at 65-70 TWh/yr, to Belgium, Germany, Italy, Spain, Switzerland and UK. Imports are relatively trivial.”
“France now claims a substantial level of energy independence and almost the lowest cost electricity in Europe. It also has an extremely low level of CO2 emissions per capita from electricity generation, since over 90% of its electricity is nuclear or hydro.”
In addition, EDF were aiming for 500MW capacity wind power by (I think) 2012;
The new reactor being built at Flammanville is a new EDP type with a capacity of 1650MW.
Still, if they’re only going to run it half the year…
Report abuse
bob -
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/utilities/article6626811.ece
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France (look under ‘cooling’ & limitations)
Report abuse
But Mrs. P – the new Flammanville reactor alone largely solves most of their recent summer heatwave shutdown problems at 1650MWe. Coupled with other new nuclear plant of similar output and their ongoing investment in renewables, is there really scope for us to provide them with much supply?
The French want energy independence, and will achieve it. That may well get them into marine turbines as the nuclear plant ages – but I bet those turbines will be firmly theirs, installed on their seabed – possibly where we can admire them on the horizon. I just hope that Guernsey Electricity picked the company with those patent rights to invest in.
Report abuse
Scarlett – bless you, you do make me laugh! You come across as (and admitted to being) “an uninformed, weirdo anti-finance person”, who evidently lacks the knowledge or evidence to back up your argument to an informed, intelligent individual like Greg-!
Seems plain to me that the reason you aren’t informed enough to substantiate your argument to Greg and the rest of us, is because you’re too full of venom for the finance sector to look into the situation properly, and too pugnacious for your own good.
Greg: Don’t, as they say, feed the troll…!
Report abuse
i am not finance savvy, but a lot of people in guernsey hope the main lesson learnt in all this is, to not to let one industry hold all of the cards in the future, and more importantly, remember who didnt do there job properly whilst in goverment when the next election comes round
Report abuse
Oh, Bob, what would Homer an Marg say about you taking time out from cartoon land to take part in this debate, I wonder?
MY response – more importantly, the lack of it – was to Greg’s ‘question’ about the bubble burst I referred to, as he claims he didn’t know what I was talking about…..I refused to answer it as I believe that it insults the intelligence of BOTH of us to do so.
Unlike the pro finance fans I do NOT profess to ‘know’ the future, I’ll leave that to side show fortune tellers and other illusionists, what I DO know is that the world is changing and that we must change with it before our poor island gets dragged through so much mud because of it’s total domination with this soulless industry, that it drowns in it.
Report abuse
We sould all be preparing for the end and looking for alternative ways of making a living….
1) Harvesting seaweeds to sell to Asian markets.
2) Fish Farming.
3) Manufacturing shell souvenirs.
Report abuse